Fake Tanks are so prevalent I've had to Off Tank on my Healer

ArchMikem

Another class, another character, another grind to level undaunted, so I've been pugging pledges recently and I've caught on the fake tank issue has worsened last I experienced it. Last time competent DD's would fake role so at least it was made up for. Now I've been getting fake tanks that don't even have a grasp of gameplay mechanics, rotations, ability use etc. I've been Healing on my Arcanist and one Dungeon I had enough and slotted the class taunt. Ever since I've stepped up as Tank whenever needed, I've even fulfilled both roles simultaneously in Vet Hardmodes so we got keys. (Nice finding out my Arcanist can do that)

Anyone else who pugs notice this? It's also like Tanks are nearly nonexistant these days, after my first pledge the queue for the other as a Healer went a half hour and I gave up.

Soarora

I don’t bother stepping up anymore. I just leave. I have other characters to play, I’ll just queue as a tank and come back later. I only put in the effort to clear when at least 2 of the pugs do too.

wilykcat

Fake tanks again? I ran into some of those too recently in eso. The worst is when doing a veteran dungeon that I never did before and I want to complete it.

I kept stealing aggro from the tank on the first boss. Then dead-- I got a low hp but high stamina and magic build (pure damage, low survivability, low healing).

Later on the tank left. No one else did. It took a long time before an very good tank showed up. Thank goodness we managed to complete that dungeon.

preevious

Fake tanks and fake heals should be reported for cheating, IMO.
After all, it's a way to cheat the intended system.

They'll tell you "you don't need an heal or a tank for this dungeon" or "I prefer 3 or 4 DDs runs" or "i'm good enough because" ..

The ugly truth is they only want to queue fast, hope they'll be carried, and don't care if they annoy anyone.
Selfishness, and absolutely nothing else, is at play, here.

LunaFlora

yea unless im doing random dungeons with a planned group i just tank. can't be bothered trying to dd or heal with randoms anymore.
sometimes with veteran dungeons i expect more but even then still occasionally get people who aren't the roles they queued for.

edit to add:
for people that fake role
you cannot know which dungeon you get until you are loading into the dungeon. it could be anything from fungal grotto to bal sunnar.

it does not matter that You can solo a few dungeons. if you select a role please be that role and play with your group.
you decided to be in a group.
skipping enemies will often result in the dungeon taking longer due to not being able to open doors or You dying

or your group dying. not every person in the game can do what you can and you can't expect that from every level 10+ character.

if you think you can totally fake tank because you believe tanking isn't necessary please use a taunt, stop rushing,
and do not die from things your group doesn't die from which most often happens due to you rushing.

taking the time to complete a dungeon as a group won't hurt you.

Dragonredux

I usually grumble my way through the dungeon depending on the dungeon itself. However if my DD ends up having to do all 3 roles at once, I will just leave group. If I wanted to solo a dungeon with companion tier teammates, I'll just manually walk myself without the headaches.

LunaFlora wrote: »

skipping enemies will often result in the dungeon taking longer due to not being able to open doors or You dying

I see this so much especially in Tempest Island especially when there's just one enemy in the corner somewhere near them but they will continue to hump the door.

Ragnarok0130

I've noticed it a lot as a healer lately OP and I suspect it will get much worse when ESO is free on Epic. I used to not care if the fake tank slotted a taunt and actually tanked; I'd keep him alive and finish the dungeon but lately I've gotten a lot of "tanks" with who don't slot a taunt and run in circles trying to avoid the boss. It's the to the point that if the tank has 18K health and I'm in a DLC dungeon I ask if he needs me to pop an armory assistant to put his tank spec on and if he doesn't I bail and take the timeout penalty. I don't have the time or patience to waste my time trying to tank the boss as a healer, because bosses love healers, when he's playing DPS in a tank slot.

preevious

Usually, when I'm with like-minded people, we let the fake tank go forward, try to solo everything himself, and if he don't die, we kick him out the dungeon when he's about to reach the final boss..
..then we finish the dungeon without the interloper. (if we can)

No need to bail because some people are toxic.

tincanman

I suppose it was inevitable that fake tanks/roles would creep into vet pugs given they've been conditioned from normal dungeons.

If I was pugging, which I don't do a lot, and caught a fake role in vet it would be vote to kick or quit with, probably, a suitably ascerbic parting comment.

Normal dungeons, ok. Veteran dungeons: no.

tincanman

preevious wrote: »

Usually, when I'm with like-minded people, we let the fake tank go forward, try to solo everything himself, and if he don't die, we kick him out the dungeon when he's about to reach the final boss..
..then we finish the dungeon without the interloper. (if we can)

No need to bail because some people are toxic.

lol - I love this!

the1andonlyskwex

tincanman wrote: »

I suppose it was inevitable that fake tanks/roles would creep into vet pugs given they've been conditioned from normal dungeons.

If I was pugging, which I don't do a lot, and caught a fake role in vet it would be vote to kick or quit with, probably, a suitably ascerbic parting comment.

Normal dungeons, ok. Veteran dungeons: no.

At least on PS NA fake tanks in vet dungeons have been a huge problem for ages (going back at least as far as the Elsweyr chapter). It's a huge part of why I don't currently have ESO+. I can manage base game dungeons without a proper tank, but DLC dungeons aren't sufficiently forgiving without a proper tank at my skill level.

My biggest frustration with fake tanks in vet is that they (or whoever ultimately winds up with aggro) tend to kite bosses out of ground-based AoE damage, which reduces total group damage dramatically, making everything die super slowly.

ixthUA

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

NoSoup

I'd still take a fake tank over no tank. Did a random vet last night on my healer and got pulled into Vet Black Heart Haven. Tank looked at the group and saw both dps were under 200cp so just instantly quit. We waited a bit for a replacement that never came. We got through the first boss ok with no tank then I asked group if they'd mind if I switched from heals to my solo build and they slotted some self heals. 3 of us did the whole dungeon with ease so shame on the tank that instaquit. First time I've had to use my armory assitant in a dungeon

DoggedBark24

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

preevious

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

As long as you queue as DPS, by all means, feel free to play one.
Don't queue as a tank or healer, though.
If you don't want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

preevious

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

Well, as long as you tank and heal, you're fine by me (though I would expect buffs/debuffs coming from you).
If I have to self heal or if the boss starts pursuing randoms player, you are cheating and I'll 100% report you for it (even if I know ESO won't do a thing about it (sadly)).

The whole "fake DPS" shtick is only an self-indulging excuse one use to justify one's selfishness and cheat on the queue.

ixthUA

preevious wrote: »

As long as you queue as DPS, by all means, feel free to play one.
Don't queue as a tank or healer, though.
If you don't want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I queue only as tank or healer, for 6 years by now.
In normal dungeons, 99% of time its fake tank or healer, and in veteran dungeons its fake DDs, which is even worse, so the only way to get real roles is to avoid random queue.

p00tx

preevious wrote: »

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

Well, as long as you tank and heal, you're fine by me (though I would expect buffs/debuffs coming from you).
If I have to self heal or if the boss starts pursuing randoms player, you are cheating and I'll 100% report you for it (even if I know ESO won't do a thing about it (sadly)).

The whole "fake DPS" shtick is only an self-indulging excuse one use to justify one's selfishness and cheat on the queue.

It's not cheating and does not go against ToS, and weaponizing the reporting system to push a specific playstyle on other players is excessively toxic and a huge problem in the game right now, especially given the company's unfortunate habit of "ban first, ask questions later". That is shameful behavior.

preevious

p00tx wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

Well, as long as you tank and heal, you're fine by me (though I would expect buffs/debuffs coming from you).
If I have to self heal or if the boss starts pursuing randoms player, you are cheating and I'll 100% report you for it (even if I know ESO won't do a thing about it (sadly)).

The whole "fake DPS" shtick is only an self-indulging excuse one use to justify one's selfishness and cheat on the queue.

It's not cheating and does not go against ToS, and weaponizing the reporting system to push a specific playstyle on other players is excessively toxic and a huge problem in the game right now, especially given the company's unfortunate habit of "ban first, ask questions later". That is shameful behavior.

It is not toxic.

If you queue as a Tank, you are basically agreeing to tank. There is a role selection for a reason.
If you don't, yes, it's in my opinion a form of cheating. It's an abuse of the queue system with the objective of having a lower time to wait. A bit like cutting in line. (granted, it's not a very well done system, zenimax could do better)

I don't consider that a playstyle, and I'm not weaponizing anything.
I'm reporting something I deem very worthy of report in the hope that, one day, Zenimax will take the problem into account and find a way to fix it.

Because I still think it's a big problem, in dungeons.

EDIT : Saying I'm pushing a specific playstyle on other is highly ironic. I'm not the one who forces people to play without a tank or an healer, roles wich they hoped to find when they decided to queue.

Lebkuchen

Great way to fix this would be a short quest before every dungeon while you are waiting in the queue for a pug. If you are in a premade group you don't have to do the quest.

Everyone gets sent into a private dungeon with an NPC group, and have to play their role for a couple of minutes. Just to see if they are able to do it.

- Tanks have to tank two or three bosses. NPC friends are not allowed to die.

- Healers have to keep their NPC group alive.

- Damage Dealers would have to be able to kill the bosses in that time.

After doing the quest you are not allowed to change your build anymore, or you will be removed from the queue and have to do it again. If you can't do the quest you will be removed from the queue.

And it would be nice if we could queue for easy dungeons (non dlc) and hard dungeons (dlc) seperately. Because every time i want to farm a hard dungeon using the groupfinder at least one groupmember leaves right away before everyone is even loaded in. Most of the times it's the tank who just wanted to do an easy random dungeon.

Necrotech_Master

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Great way to fix this would be a short quest before every dungeon while you are waiting in the queue for a pug. If you are in a premade group you don't have to do the quest.

Everyone gets sent into a private dungeon with an NPC group, and have to play their role for a couple of minutes. Just to see if they are able to do it.

- Tanks have to tank two or three bosses. NPC friends are not allowed to die.

- Healers have to keep their NPC group alive.

- Damage Dealers would have to be able to kill the bosses in that time.

After doing the quest you are not allowed to change your build anymore, or you will be removed from the queue and have to do it again. If you can't do the quest you will be removed from the queue.

And it would be nice if we could queue for easy dungeons (non dlc) and hard dungeons (dlc) seperately. Because every time i want to farm a hard dungeon using the groupfinder at least one groupmember leaves right away before everyone is even loaded in. Most of the times it's the tank who just wanted to do an easy random dungeon.

this would really put people off from using the queue at all, and go back to the old school "zone chat lfg" to do randoms

i dont really find dlc dungeons all that much harder than non dlc, they usually just have a few more mechanics (majority of which are ignorable on normal unless its like a cc that you cannot break out yourself)

Elrond87

When I queue solo as tank its most often too low dps i just alt f4, i guess why a lack of tanks, no one want to go at a snails pace, then i guess some people think as so little tanks they go fake tank because of the long queue times because no one wanna tank randoms with so many low dps ones about, and in general most seem to prefer dps. i like tanking if i know who im with are decent im all for it. i also like fake tanks for normal dungeons as they aint even needed, just vet stuff

GimpyPorcupine

The obvious solution to this, which I've been using since dungeon finder became a thing, it to spec the character you're leveling Undaunted as a tank. Now that Armory is a thing, and you get 2 free slots per toon, it's even easier.

p00tx

preevious wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

Well, as long as you tank and heal, you're fine by me (though I would expect buffs/debuffs coming from you).
If I have to self heal or if the boss starts pursuing randoms player, you are cheating and I'll 100% report you for it (even if I know ESO won't do a thing about it (sadly)).

The whole "fake DPS" shtick is only an self-indulging excuse one use to justify one's selfishness and cheat on the queue.

It's not cheating and does not go against ToS, and weaponizing the reporting system to push a specific playstyle on other players is excessively toxic and a huge problem in the game right now, especially given the company's unfortunate habit of "ban first, ask questions later". That is shameful behavior.

It is not toxic.

If you queue as a Tank, you are basically agreeing to tank. There is a role selection for a reason.
If you don't, yes, it's in my opinion a form of cheating. It's an abuse of the queue system with the objective of having a lower time to wait. A bit like cutting in line. (granted, it's not a very well done system, zenimax could do better)

I don't consider that a playstyle, and I'm not weaponizing anything.
I'm reporting something I deem very worthy of report in the hope that, one day, Zenimax will take the problem into account and find a way to fix it.

Because I still think it's a big problem, in dungeons.

EDIT : Saying I'm pushing a specific playstyle on other is highly ironic. I'm not the one who forces people to play without a tank or an healer, roles wich they hoped to find when they decided to queue.

Then report the issue, not the player. People do not deserve to be banned/suspended because you don't agree with the way they play the game. I understand why you're frustrated, and even I get frustrated when I get randomly assigned a group of people in a DLC dungeon and they're clearly not on the proper roles, not doing any damage whatsoever, and have no idea how to do the mechs, all when I was just hoping to drag one of my healers through a random normal for some transmutes and XP. I don't feel it's my job to punish them for my frustration though, and either leave the group or just push on and hope for the best.

Adernath

Come to Cyrodiil, there you find all the tanks you are looking for...

preevious

p00tx wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

preevious wrote: »

DoggedBark24 wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

After latest DPS nerf i don't bother going into veteran dungeons on my tank or healer - if both DDs are bad, run will take 40-60 minutes, which is not acceptable for me.
If you want real tank and healer - make your own team and don't go through random team system.

I have a real tank and 2 characters that *can* tank (with a taunt of course). When I go into a dungeon like normal Elden Hollow 1 on my real tank and it takes 25+ minutes it's ridiculous and miserable, but on my characters that *can* tank I atleast know that we will be finishing most dungeons within 15 minutes.

Similarly, I have real healers and some that *can heal* and just like before being on real healers can super miserable compared to my *fake* healer counterpart. In both cases, I don't heal stupid, if you stand in lava/fire or continuously stand in bad aoes you're gonna die and hopefully they'll learn that heals are on tank.

To the whole fake tanks and healers should be reported for cheating is nonsensical to me, if they're being toxic about it you report them for that. I don't go and report the low dps (like on par with my real tank or healer) for "cheating" because they aren't doing a substantial amount of dps because that would be absurd.

Well, as long as you tank and heal, you're fine by me (though I would expect buffs/debuffs coming from you).
If I have to self heal or if the boss starts pursuing randoms player, you are cheating and I'll 100% report you for it (even if I know ESO won't do a thing about it (sadly)).

The whole "fake DPS" shtick is only an self-indulging excuse one use to justify one's selfishness and cheat on the queue.

It's not cheating and does not go against ToS, and weaponizing the reporting system to push a specific playstyle on other players is excessively toxic and a huge problem in the game right now, especially given the company's unfortunate habit of "ban first, ask questions later". That is shameful behavior.

It is not toxic.

If you queue as a Tank, you are basically agreeing to tank. There is a role selection for a reason.
If you don't, yes, it's in my opinion a form of cheating. It's an abuse of the queue system with the objective of having a lower time to wait. A bit like cutting in line. (granted, it's not a very well done system, zenimax could do better)

I don't consider that a playstyle, and I'm not weaponizing anything.
I'm reporting something I deem very worthy of report in the hope that, one day, Zenimax will take the problem into account and find a way to fix it.

Because I still think it's a big problem, in dungeons.

EDIT : Saying I'm pushing a specific playstyle on other is highly ironic. I'm not the one who forces people to play without a tank or an healer, roles wich they hoped to find when they decided to queue.

Then report the issue, not the player. People do not deserve to be banned/suspended because you don't agree with the way they play the game. I understand why you're frustrated, and even I get frustrated when I get randomly assigned a group of people in a DLC dungeon and they're clearly not on the proper roles, not doing any damage whatsoever, and have no idea how to do the mechs, all when I was just hoping to drag one of my healers through a random normal for some transmutes and XP. I don't feel it's my job to punish them for my frustration though, and either leave the group or just push on and hope for the best.

I don't say they should be banned. I say they should be sanctionned.
The sanction is not up to me.

I think they should be because they are exploiting the system at the expense of their unfortunates teamates.
If I see someone cheating, I report the cheater, for he is the problem.
I can solo dungeon too, but I'm somehow able to refrain queueing as anything other than a DPS. Because I understood that imposing a 3DD run to 3 other players that were just willing to run a dungeon is not good. It's a gross abuse of the system.

So, yeah .. fake tank or fake heal --> automatic report (and very much deserved, at that).

preevious

Adernath wrote: »

Come to Cyrodiil, there you find all the tanks you are looking for...

You think they can be hired for dungeons?

AvalonRanger

These type of problem have already solved. Just you must have your real tank and healer character,
and queue by your tank or healer character. No fake anymore.

And if you meet fake tank or fake healer unfortunately at the random as DD, then do instance kick as first as you can.
And try to call your decent guild member or friend.

Many people try to make similar thread over and over, but no other solution.

the1andonlyskwex

AvalonRanger wrote: »

These type of problem have already solved. Just you must have your real tank and healer character,
and queue by your tank or healer character. No fake anymore.

And if you meet fake tank or fake healer unfortunately at the random as DD, then do instance kick as first as you can.
And try to call your decent guild member or friend.

Many people try to make similar thread over and over, but no other solution.

How does playing as a healer solve fake tanks or playing as a tank solve fake healers?

AvalonRanger

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

AvalonRanger wrote: »

These type of problem have already solved. Just you must have your real tank and healer character,
and queue by your tank or healer character. No fake anymore.

And if you meet fake tank or fake healer unfortunately at the random as DD, then do instance kick as first as you can.
And try to call your decent guild member or friend.

Many people try to make similar thread over and over, but no other solution.

How does playing as a healer solve fake tanks or playing as a tank solve fake healers?

Well, unfortunately I've seen many of both fake tank and fake healer as DD.
(I'm tank main player though.)

"How does playing as a healer solve fake tanks or playing as a tank solve fake healers?"

I understand what you want to say, there're not much solution about this.
If you meet fake tank in some dangerous DLC dungeon, then leave immediately.

If you wear Mazzatan monster set or some heavy armor, you can survive without
tank's support. And can do some healer work without tank. But tank set for the tank,
not for healer's one. (Basically light armor has best function for the healer.)

Kick fake role player as first as you can, and call your decent guild member or friend.

ArchMikem

AvalonRanger wrote: »

These type of problem have already solved. Just you must have your real tank and healer character,
and queue by your tank or healer character. No fake anymore.

And if you meet fake tank or fake healer unfortunately at the random as DD, then do instance kick as first as you can.
And try to call your decent guild member or friend.

Many people try to make similar thread over and over, but no other solution.

Playing an MMORPG doesn't mean the player has friends, or a Guild to call on.