Since nobody is talking about the new pvp monster set…

Loveseason

I feel the need to weigh in. I’m referring to:

Jerall Mountains Warchief
* 1 – Adds 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
* 2 – Dealing damage applies a stack of Malady to your enemy, reducing Healing Taken by 1% for 5 seconds, up to 35 stacks. You can apply a stack once every 0.5 seconds. Applying Malady gives you a stack of Contagion, reducing Healing Taken by 1% for 5 seconds, up to 15 stacks. You can only gain a stack once every 1 second.

ZOS has made themself abundantly clear that they want to make the game more accessible and enjoyable for new players, especially in PVP, where they can have a bigger role and influence in the gameplay.

I completely understand the direction they are moving into, however disagree with the path they seems to be taking.

IMHO, I DO NOT agree with encouraging passive playstyle, especially when it can lead to better outcomes that are otherwise unattainable.

IT MAKES THE GAME BORING, the trend of automating dmg/healing/defense NEEDS to be gone or suppressed!

Some examples: Mara’s Balm from last patch( thank god), vateshran ice staff, master dual wield, strong hots that require people standing still (Templar rune, dk ash cloud etc), and warden’s health stacking meta.

The stiffness of current PVP environment should be more than enough to manifest that, the enjoyment deprived from unearned passive power is NOT sustainable, because fundamentally, low effort high rewards is not fun.

That being said, please look at one of the newly introduced monster set in PTS.

It requires little to no effort (just slam a few ranged dots + light attacks), and then is able to reduce targets’ healing by 35%, or by 59% if combined with major/minor defile.

In group settings, especially if one is outnumbering one’s enemy, this set would be ridiculously overpowered, while the drawback it “seems” to have is negligible.

Even in duels, I foresee Arcanist to be T0 (since main heal is shield) just because of this set (since auto win after 10-20s debuff build up time, against most classes).

I can say with full confidence, if this set makes to live server as it is, solo play
would go instinct overnight. Nobody without purge could survive more than 30 seconds, not with 59% healing reduction on top of battle spirit.

As a self-claimed 1vx player, I welcome everyone, especially new pvp players, to be more “impactful”, but not in this way, not in an “auto lose” or “auto win” way.

Instead, if ZOS truly wants to balance 1vx & outnumbered PVP, in a much more healthy way, here are some of my takes:

1. remove or heavily nerf 20% healing increase when near a keep or tower (maybe 5% healing & shield strength increase).
2. Remove or heavily nerf 20% recovery increase & 10% spd/wd increase after taking a keep or tower. (Continuous attack buff does make 1vx/outnumbered situation a lot easier, trust me)
3. Remove or heavily nerf undeath passive.

And since I’m at it, here are some actual suggestions I personally believe would make the game more dynamic and fun to play (or play against)

1. Make resources points more important in the grand scheme of things, for example 3 resources cut will destroy the outer door in 5mins, and all walls in another 10 mins. (to incentivize actual fights taking places, instead of everyone crowded near keeps, zerging & sieging.
2. introduce scaling-ladder-like siege. Again, to encourage different types of gameplay, and to make things more chaotic and fun. I suggest 2-man operable, takes 10s to climb while disable all skill casting.
3. Fix stuck in combat bug!!
4. Buff sorc. Make conversion/exchange an instant cast ability.
5. Buff necro, give some sort of major savagery and/or brutality buff attached with class skill.

Alright, if you are still here, I appreciate your time and attention, since this post should’ve long exceeded the “too long didn’t read” threshold.

In the end, I want to say that, some of the changes made in pts are actually quite good, such as improvements on “spectral bow” and double bar savagery buff on “invis cloak”.

Not that I believe nightblade needs any sort of buff, it’s already a very competitive class in PVP.

My point is, if ZOS aims to make this game more “accessible”, I would rather them to simplify game mechanics, instead of automating everything.

Hence, please reconsider releasing sets like “Jerall Mountains Warchief”. automatic/passive strong effects should be either severely suppressed or completely removed.

Bobomb

The self sustain in this game is unreasonable.

This set gives a nice counter to players who build alot of sustain and rewards players for going deep into debuffing. As stated in other threads this set takes 17 seconds to reach its full value which is absolutely giving the opponent time to react and cleanse.
Much like the players who do want to spec into debuffing have to sacrifice other monster set options in favor of this set, so should you if you want to counter this set

The only thing this set needs is a buff to be able to apply to multiple targets simultaneously.

xDeusEJRx

People have been talking about this set, just not on PTS forums, it's been in PVP forum category.

However, I agree this set needs to not be a thing. Balancing the game through item sets have never been a good idea, and I can't imagine how horrendous this set may interact with the amount of desyncs in this game and how it may be bugged when skills don't properly register because of desync.

For the life of me I can't understand why zos just won't blanket nerf healing via battle spirit, there's already a clause on battle spirit to nerf healing, just increase the reduction of healing in battle spirit or even better add a clause reducing effectiveness of cross healing, either making cross heals weaker or just flat out not be able to cross heal as much. Or another change they could do is just nerf the "Combat medic" passive 20% healing you get from just being near a keep.

The last time healing in battle spirit got touched was back in 2021 I believe around the time cp 2.0 came, damage has DRASTICALLY increased since 2021, it would make sense to give healing a nerf again in accordance with the power creeping in this game.

x99KungFuTacosx

How do you get more than 10 stacks with this set? Stack lasts 5 seconds and can only add a stack every half second.

JerBearESO

Set needs to effect shielding in addition to just healing, and needs to apply stacks from direct damage only to prevent passively applying stacks while evading fight until stacks are maxed. Also they have it backwards. User should gain stacks fast, or maybe even the full 15% healing loss up front, and then it becomes a balanced risk/reward set. User would be countered by the enemy recognizing the need to hard press aggression before they get fully debuffed, while the user is at the disadvantage. If the user is able to get stacks on their target the tables then turn

xDeusEJRx

x99KungFuTacosx wrote: »

How do you get more than 10 stacks with this set? Stack lasts 5 seconds and can only add a stack every half second.

The timer will likely just refresh back to 5 when you build stacks. Ravager set is worded in a similar way, but it refreshes the 5 second time when you build a stack of Ravager. The only difference is ravager doubles it's duration at full stacks, this doesn't.



Even though that's not worded I assume it just refreshes the 5 second timer upon building a stack

Dagoth_Rac

x99KungFuTacosx wrote: »

How do you get more than 10 stacks with this set? Stack lasts 5 seconds and can only add a stack every half second.

I doubt the game tracks each and every stack individually. It just increments and tracks total number of stacks you have. So, if you are at 8 stacks and stop doing damage, you will have "8-Stack-Malady" for another 5 seconds and then all 8 stacks will fall off at once. You won't decrement to 7 stacks and 6 stacks and 5 stacks, etc., eventually down to zero.

sabresandiego_ESO

The tank heal Meta is one of the most boring pvp environments ever. Everyone being safe and not dying when healers are around just isn’t fun. None of your suggestions would help because even battlegrounds are boring once a team gets a healer. Adding this set could save the pvp in this game

xDeusEJRx

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

The tank heal Meta is one of the most boring pvp environments ever. Everyone being safe and not dying when healers are around just isn’t fun. None of your suggestions would help because even battlegrounds are boring once a team gets a healer. Adding this set could save the pvp in this game

Remember when dark convergence and plaguebreak saved pvp in this game when people echoed the same opinions you did 2 years ago? Yeah me neither, what WILL happen is, everyone in PVP will run this set once an OP "no enemy healing" build comes out like a Sniper Stam Cro with double defiles with high uptime plus this set takes over PVP.

This set is absurdly ridiculous, plus it's EASY to get, it just requires ap dumping which is easy to acquire, which means ANYONE in pvp can and WILL have this set. It will just be a new proc meta, nothing will be saved, it will just shift to a new offensive proc, yet people like you are blind to this fact.

Pvp is already bad because of the proc carry meta, this is just more proc carries to add to the mix. Ridiculous.

acastanza_ESO

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Pvp is already bad because of the proc carry meta, this is just more proc carries to add to the mix. Ridiculous.

Even more crazy is that Ravenwatch exists! You can opt out of the stupid proc carry meta and actually play PVP that's fun and solely dependent on your ability to actually play your class but so few people actually seem interested in doing so. It makes me sad.

Tonturri

Maybe this could be changed to be more direct-damage based - if it works on all damage, including DoT ticks, it'll stack crazy fast. Having it be only on direct damage, with the impact of the stack per strike bumped up, would provide some counterplay in that you could try to CC someone to drop stacks. Adding a mechanic similar to Ravager would also be cool where once it reaches max stacks it can't be refreshed until it falls off. This would create a cycle in combat where the user has to try to capitalize off the vulnerability of max stacks, but then has to rebuild it for another go.

It most definitely should not stack with multiple users though. Nobody - solo players or ball groups - want to face even two people using this dealing consistent ranged damage or w/e to apply and neutering heals across the board. That'd be boring.

That all said I like the basis of this thing. Some sort of debuffer, heavy armor necromancer with fasalla guile casting blighted blastbones sounds fun once necro gets some love.

xDeusEJRx

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Pvp is already bad because of the proc carry meta, this is just more proc carries to add to the mix. Ridiculous.

Even more crazy is that Ravenwatch exists! You can opt out of the stupid proc carry meta and actually play PVP that's fun and solely dependent on your ability to actually play your class but so few people actually seem interested in doing so. It makes me sad.

I love ravenwatch, it's my favorite campaign to play in, but as a console player the campaign is basically dead forever so I just have to put up with procs

OBJnoob

As I said in the other thread, it seems to me there is a need for it. I don't think this is an example of the game adding sets to achieve balance. It is just opening up another avenue of play. Healing is pretty powerful right now and it's not terrible to have a weapon against it if you so choose. Other good sets will still be used, and if this is overly strong I'm sure it will be adjusted.

Sending it the way of SitS is not what we should do.

Bobomb

Tonturri wrote: »

Maybe this could be changed to be more direct-damage based - if it works on all damage, including DoT ticks, it'll stack crazy fast. Having it be only on direct damage, with the impact of the stack per strike bumped up, would provide some counterplay in that you could try to CC someone to drop stacks. Adding a mechanic similar to Ravager would also be cool where once it reaches max stacks it can't be refreshed until it falls off. This would create a cycle in combat where the user has to try to capitalize off the vulnerability of max stacks, but then has to rebuild it for another go.

It most definitely should not stack with multiple users though. Nobody - solo players or ball groups - want to face even two people using this dealing consistent ranged damage or w/e to apply and neutering heals across the board. That'd be boring.

That all said I like the basis of this thing. Some sort of debuffer, heavy armor necromancer with fasalla guile casting blighted blastbones sounds fun once necro gets some love.

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

Tonturri

Bobomb wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Maybe this could be changed to be more direct-damage based - if it works on all damage, including DoT ticks, it'll stack crazy fast. Having it be only on direct damage, with the impact of the stack per strike bumped up, would provide some counterplay in that you could try to CC someone to drop stacks. Adding a mechanic similar to Ravager would also be cool where once it reaches max stacks it can't be refreshed until it falls off. This would create a cycle in combat where the user has to try to capitalize off the vulnerability of max stacks, but then has to rebuild it for another go.

It most definitely should not stack with multiple users though. Nobody - solo players or ball groups - want to face even two people using this dealing consistent ranged damage or w/e to apply and neutering heals across the board. That'd be boring.

That all said I like the basis of this thing. Some sort of debuffer, heavy armor necromancer with fasalla guile casting blighted blastbones sounds fun once necro gets some love.

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

I think part of the concern is that the pressure will be *constant* - particularly if it works on DoTs, there's no 'disengage a bit to try and get some breathing room' - if you have a DoT on you, it'll just keep stacking unless you have a significant amount of purge power particularly with the current state of things. I don't think being able to disengage and not get hit by anything until the stacks fall off is a viable strategy except in a few cases that aren't really available to anyone else. Making each stack more impactful but only apply on direct damage would require constant pressure and engagement from the user to get use out of the set and make it less of an 'afk set' type deal, which I think is valuable.

I also don't really want to fight VD/plaguebreak using, inevitable detonation casting whoevers who can sprinkle some DoTs around and turn it into a lose lose of purge and you proc detonation/PB, don't purge and you get a stacking heal debuff. Or, idk, maybe that's The Way folks want to use to deal with ball group problems, I won't speak for anyone else but that doesn't sound great to me.

Edit: Are notification settings broken? I'm never getting a notification when someone quotes me/responds.

YandereGirlfriend

Bobomb wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Maybe this could be changed to be more direct-damage based - if it works on all damage, including DoT ticks, it'll stack crazy fast. Having it be only on direct damage, with the impact of the stack per strike bumped up, would provide some counterplay in that you could try to CC someone to drop stacks. Adding a mechanic similar to Ravager would also be cool where once it reaches max stacks it can't be refreshed until it falls off. This would create a cycle in combat where the user has to try to capitalize off the vulnerability of max stacks, but then has to rebuild it for another go.

It most definitely should not stack with multiple users though. Nobody - solo players or ball groups - want to face even two people using this dealing consistent ranged damage or w/e to apply and neutering heals across the board. That'd be boring.

That all said I like the basis of this thing. Some sort of debuffer, heavy armor necromancer with fasalla guile casting blighted blastbones sounds fun once necro gets some love.

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

NOT if it stacks from multiple users.

This is a faction-stacker's paradise set if it does.

Zabagad

Bobomb wrote: »

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

I red this 17s many times now, but I don't understand why is it so fast?
If you start a fight and no aoe/dot is running, how do you get 2 stacks per second?
If I do a LA/skill both are in the the same ~0.2s and so there should be one stack.
Then the next LA/skill will start 1s later and the 1/2s stack stays unused.
So - without dots I would assume that it needs 35s and even with a mix of all, I would never guess it takes 17s...

Can someone explain that to me?

OBJnoob

Zabagad wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

I red this 17s many times now, but I don't understand why is it so fast?
If you start a fight and no aoe/dot is running, how do you get 2 stacks per second?
If I do a LA/skill both are in the the same ~0.2s and so there should be one stack.
Then the next LA/skill will start 1s later and the 1/2s stack stays unused.
So - without dots I would assume that it needs 35s and even with a mix of all, I would never guess it takes 17s...

Can someone explain that to me?

You're exactly right. 17.5 seconds is the quickest it could ever reach full value, in theory, but it will never be that fast. 20 seconds? Sure.

Loveseason

Zabagad wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

it takes about 17 seconds for full stacks, having it on DoTs is fine

I red this 17s many times now, but I don't understand why is it so fast?
If you start a fight and no aoe/dot is running, how do you get 2 stacks per second?
If I do a LA/skill both are in the the same ~0.2s and so there should be one stack.
Then the next LA/skill will start 1s later and the 1/2s stack stays unused.
So - without dots I would assume that it needs 35s and even with a mix of all, I would never guess it takes 17s...

Can someone explain that to me?

Just slap multiple dots on someone, leave it and they should be dead by around 20 ish seconds. Which is not very healthy gameplay isn’t it?

For example poison inject + sheer venom, literally one button rotation.

Or oblivion foe + aoe dot morph

Master ice + ice furnance

This list goes on and on. Brain-dead combo shouldn’t have this much pressure.

SandandStars

Sometimes you can’t see the forest through the trees.

Certain item sets require you to use them to be competitive. Certain new item sets. Obtainable through the purchase of new content.

MindOfTheSwarm

Although I agree in principle healing is pretty easy in this game.

The should add a new weapon skill like that focuses on Disease Damage and anti healing. That would encourage an active play style designed to counteract op healing.

But ZoS philosophy and game design is centered around sets everything the out in these sets could be put into new skill lines of the wanted but they won’t do it.

Sets encourage farming for the pieces, mats etc. this equates to game time and this keeps players playing. A skill line does not have the same effect, of course they can simply do both and then that argument fall flat.

propertyOfUndefined

Tested the set last night... I like it, and think it will be good for the game. Worth noting that I was a supporter of Snake in the Stars too, before it got nerfed to oblivion.

The stacks aren't as easy to build as some might think. All a target really has to do is avoid taking damage from the player for 5 seconds and they're back to 0 stacks. Because users can only generate 1 stack every 0.5 secs (not per target), it's possible to keep the count from incrementing by getting behind others, who'll end up taking the stacks for that second instead. In a group fight, I imagine 16 stacks on a target would be plenty, which is about the strength of a major defile via blighted blastbones.

The self-debuff keeps stacking on the user, whether or not they hit their intended target, or somebody caught in the line of fire. It's uncleansable.

Where I see the set being useful is when trying to eliminate perma-block types who just stand there and soak up damage while healing. I imagine it will be good in 1v1 fights as well, especially the ones that devolve to wars of attrition.

JerBearESO

Im thinking throw a few dots on a target and then avoid the fight for awhile, especially with NB, then go for the kill. New gank style? Kinda patient style....

Also this is going to make shields pretty meta.... So...arcanist buff? Hahaha

propertyOfUndefined

You'd have to make sure the DOTs tick 0.5 secs apart. If the timing is off, you won't meet the 2 stacks per second. Also, you'd have to make sure to track the duration and whether or not they've been cleansed. Lastly, attacking somebody else during this time would slow down the build up.

Not saying it wouldn't work, just that there are probably easier ways to gank without taking a hit to your self-heals.

I think the set is good. I don't think it's OP in a game-breaking, fire-and-forget kind of way. Just my 2 cents...

sabresandiego_ESO

I’m really looking forward to this heal debuff set. I hope it finally balances healing in pvp and makes the game fun instead of a stalemate

pedrogonzalez

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Pvp is already bad because of the proc carry meta, this is just more proc carries to add to the mix. Ridiculous.

Even more crazy is that Ravenwatch exists! You can opt out of the stupid proc carry meta and actually play PVP that's fun and solely dependent on your ability to actually play your class but so few people actually seem interested in doing so. It makes me sad.

Just imagine, at pseu it doesn’t exist