Missed patch note? Azureblight and Jabs

virtus753

I seem to be missing where the patch notes say that Jabs/Sweeps no longer procs Azureblight. Would appreciate it if someone could point me to it.

merpins

More Jabs nerfs? Cool. I hate it. Nobody was asking for more jabs nerfs, smh.

virtus753

merpins wrote: »

More Jabs nerfs? I hate it. Nobody was asking for more jabs nerfs, smh.

For sure.

To be fair, this was technically a bugfix. Jabs hasn't been a DoT since the update after Azure was introduced four years ago. But if bugfixes didn't need patch notes, Gina could have spared herself 31 pages of typing. The vast majority of which had no impact on combat balance or class identity whatsoever.

We also don't need more stealth changes, especially ones that highly impact endgame builds on a class already struggling with being shoehorned into beambotdom. Missed notes about nerfs significantly exacerbate the friction already caused when players find out.

And here we could have already been trying to raise concerns. The devs could have chosen to update Azure to proc off of DoTs and channels. Instead they took Azure away from Templars, and now it seems Arcanist will be the only class who can proc it with AoE multiple times per second with a single skill. They are not the ones who need help.

Altyrann

Just tested on 9.1.1 given they made some changes to Azureblight and still no stacks building from jabs / sweeps.

Necrotech_Master

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

ZOS_Kevin

Hi all, thanks for pointing this out. We checked and we did indeed missed this patchnote. We are adding the note in now, but wanted to follow up here first.

Azureblight Reaper: Fixed an issue where this set could build up stacks with non damage over time effects such as Flurry or Puncturing Strikes.

ApoAlaia

If is an oversight that helps - a lot - a class to remain relevant on certain encounters is it worth addressing?

Does anyone ponder this question before going ahead an doing it?

virtus753

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for pointing this out. We checked and we did indeed missed this patchnote. We are adding the note in now, but wanted to follow up here first.

Azureblight Reaper: Fixed an issue where this set could build up stacks with non damage over time effects such as Flurry or Puncturing Strikes.

Thank you very much, Kevin! I appreciate the follow-up here and the update to the notes.

As ApoAlaia said above, I hope the devs can consider the impact this is going to have on a class already struggling in a lot of places. The devs have said Templars need to hurt, but it feels like we’re hurting more and more with each update. It’s hard to reconcile that with the power fantasy they’ve described as their goal for this RPG.

But thank you for looking into this so we know the change is intentional and can provide appropriate feedback.

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

Yes, this is a bugfix, but it is not “just” a bugfix due to the impact it has on the Templar class in endgame PvE.

I believe it was WrathofInnos who pointed out last year that Templar was being “hard carried” by Azure. I pointed out then that that meant we were being hard carried by a bug. Now that the bug is getting fixed, Templar will lose competitiveness in the contexts where Azure helped us do well. We are getting absolutely nothing to help make up for this. Either the devs are not aware of how much Azure is necessary to keep Templar competitive in these contexts - in which case it was all the more important to get timely notes so we could inform them (and point them to the numerous logs they will have missed in that case) - or they are aware and see no issue with Templars continuing to lose damage, utility, and identity. Both alternatives are concerning to me.

ETA: I should also mention this is the second set taken away from Templars in two updates. Templars can make Plaguebreak work best because of the unique class buff to weapon and spell damage, which increased Plaguebreak’s explosion. It is very demoralizing to lose yet another set we use very well with no compensation.

Bobomb

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

luchtt

azureblight isnt even that good on templar anymore since 4->3 jabs and beam buff, since you spend a lot of the fight beaming which loses further procs, on top of the lower procs from jabs. It's far better to put it on DK or arcanist if you have it, even necro. It's true that it sucks that its no longer an option but in the name of consistency, i'd accept it. Templar has been a very back-end loaded single target class since beam's buff and jabs nerf. We could hope for a class set that buffs it aoe a bit perhaps, but i wouldnt count on it.

The same people that complain about zos being inconsistent all the time will also complain about them fixing a bug that literally makes no sense (jabs/sweeps proccing azureblight, also same with flurry and its morphs btw idk if that has been addressed yet)

Necrotech_Master

Bobomb wrote: »

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

it was listed in the first round pts notes from last week, they changed it so instead of there being a cooldown on stacks generated, the explosion itself was given a cooldown

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

Yes, this is a bugfix, but it is not “just” a bugfix due to the impact it has on the Templar class in endgame PvE.

I believe it was WrathofInnos who pointed out last year that Templar was being “hard carried” by Azure. I pointed out then that that meant we were being hard carried by a bug. Now that the bug is getting fixed, Templar will lose competitiveness in the contexts where Azure helped us do well. We are getting absolutely nothing to help make up for this. Either the devs are not aware of how much Azure is necessary to keep Templar competitive in these contexts - in which case it was all the more important to get timely notes so we could inform them (and point them to the numerous logs they will have missed in that case) - or they are aware and see no issue with Templars continuing to lose damage, utility, and identity. Both alternatives are concerning to me.

ETA: I should also mention this is the second set taken away from Templars in two updates. Templars can make Plaguebreak work best because of the unique class buff to weapon and spell damage, which increased Plaguebreak’s explosion. It is very demoralizing to lose yet another set we use very well with no compensation.

i personally never used plaguebreak or azureblight on my stamplar lol, since u35 i have been using stormfist+pillar of nirn+perfected whorl of the depths with a maelstrom bow back bar weapon (the only reason i changed gear around u35 was because i was dropping deadly for perfected whorl after i finished farming the items i needed for it, not because of the u35 changes lol)

never had any problems and this is still my highest dps toon and the toon i primarily use as dps for trials (helped the group i run with clear vet kynes aegis HMs) and i was the 4th highest dps in the group (for disclosure our group does not scorepush or trifecta the trials, we just go for clears), so this is where i have a hard time believing some people say that certain classes must use certain sets to be good at all unless your absolute hardcore scorepushing/trifecta trial runs

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

it was listed in the first round pts notes from last week, they changed it so instead of there being a cooldown on stacks generated, the explosion itself was given a cooldown

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

Yes, this is a bugfix, but it is not “just” a bugfix due to the impact it has on the Templar class in endgame PvE.

I believe it was WrathofInnos who pointed out last year that Templar was being “hard carried” by Azure. I pointed out then that that meant we were being hard carried by a bug. Now that the bug is getting fixed, Templar will lose competitiveness in the contexts where Azure helped us do well. We are getting absolutely nothing to help make up for this. Either the devs are not aware of how much Azure is necessary to keep Templar competitive in these contexts - in which case it was all the more important to get timely notes so we could inform them (and point them to the numerous logs they will have missed in that case) - or they are aware and see no issue with Templars continuing to lose damage, utility, and identity. Both alternatives are concerning to me.

ETA: I should also mention this is the second set taken away from Templars in two updates. Templars can make Plaguebreak work best because of the unique class buff to weapon and spell damage, which increased Plaguebreak’s explosion. It is very demoralizing to lose yet another set we use very well with no compensation.

i personally never used plaguebreak or azureblight on my stamplar lol, since u35 i have been using stormfist+pillar of nirn+perfected whorl of the depths with a maelstrom bow back bar weapon (the only reason i changed gear around u35 was because i was dropping deadly for perfected whorl after i finished farming the items i needed for it, not because of the u35 changes lol)

never had any problems and this is still my highest dps toon and the toon i primarily use as dps for trials (helped the group i run with clear vet kynes aegis HMs) and i was the 4th highest dps in the group (for disclosure our group does not scorepush or trifecta the trials, we just go for clears), so this is where i have a hard time believing some people say that certain classes must use certain sets to be good at all unless your absolute hardcore scorepushing/trifecta trial runs

Hence the term “competitive” above.

Personally I wouldn’t say Templar isn’t “good” without these sets - I agree with you that it is competent to complete content. Like you, I parsed for vKA HM (and then Dawnbringer) without Azure. I didn’t run it there because I tested it against other sets during our prog and wasn’t getting better results. There are many encounters - especially HM and tris - where Azure can do much better than it can in vKA, though. Not even just the Mage in AA, where our execute can easily get interrupted and set on a 1.8-second cooldown, meaning other sources of damage become even more important. For GS post U35, I’m still seeing Azure perform very well on Lokke and trash. For SS, Azure can do very well on twins and reef. (Bow Breaker doesn’t have a listing to sort by in ESO Logs, but it was quite possible to exceed 300k with Plaguebreak. I did it multiple times myself, and I’m sure I’m not alone.) Leaving that kind of damage on the table is a big loss for the group. Deleting it or switching it away from Templar to another class is a loss for Templar.

Bobomb

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

it was listed in the first round pts notes from last week, they changed it so instead of there being a cooldown on stacks generated, the explosion itself was given a cooldown

cheers completely missed that

Necrotech_Master

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

it was listed in the first round pts notes from last week, they changed it so instead of there being a cooldown on stacks generated, the explosion itself was given a cooldown

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

Yes, this is a bugfix, but it is not “just” a bugfix due to the impact it has on the Templar class in endgame PvE.

I believe it was WrathofInnos who pointed out last year that Templar was being “hard carried” by Azure. I pointed out then that that meant we were being hard carried by a bug. Now that the bug is getting fixed, Templar will lose competitiveness in the contexts where Azure helped us do well. We are getting absolutely nothing to help make up for this. Either the devs are not aware of how much Azure is necessary to keep Templar competitive in these contexts - in which case it was all the more important to get timely notes so we could inform them (and point them to the numerous logs they will have missed in that case) - or they are aware and see no issue with Templars continuing to lose damage, utility, and identity. Both alternatives are concerning to me.

ETA: I should also mention this is the second set taken away from Templars in two updates. Templars can make Plaguebreak work best because of the unique class buff to weapon and spell damage, which increased Plaguebreak’s explosion. It is very demoralizing to lose yet another set we use very well with no compensation.

i personally never used plaguebreak or azureblight on my stamplar lol, since u35 i have been using stormfist+pillar of nirn+perfected whorl of the depths with a maelstrom bow back bar weapon (the only reason i changed gear around u35 was because i was dropping deadly for perfected whorl after i finished farming the items i needed for it, not because of the u35 changes lol)

never had any problems and this is still my highest dps toon and the toon i primarily use as dps for trials (helped the group i run with clear vet kynes aegis HMs) and i was the 4th highest dps in the group (for disclosure our group does not scorepush or trifecta the trials, we just go for clears), so this is where i have a hard time believing some people say that certain classes must use certain sets to be good at all unless your absolute hardcore scorepushing/trifecta trial runs

Hence the term “competitive” above.

Personally I wouldn’t say Templar isn’t “good” without these sets - I agree with you that it is competent to complete content. Like you, I parsed for vKA HM (and then Dawnbringer) without Azure. I didn’t run it there because I tested it against other sets during our prog and wasn’t getting better results. There are many encounters - especially HM and tris - where Azure can do much better than it can in vKA, though. Not even just the Mage in AA, where our execute can easily get interrupted and set on a 1.8-second cooldown, meaning other sources of damage become even more important. For GS post U35, I’m still seeing Azure perform very well on Lokke and trash. For SS, Azure can do very well on twins and reef. (Bow Breaker doesn’t have a listing to sort by in ESO Logs, but it was quite possible to exceed 300k with Plaguebreak. I did it multiple times myself, and I’m sure I’m not alone.) Leaving that kind of damage on the table is a big loss for the group. Deleting it or switching it away from Templar to another class is a loss for Templar.

i personally didnt like azureblight when i have tried it, because on most classes it takes far far too long to actually build 20 stacks to get the explosion

it only even worked OK on templar because jabs was 3 hits per second + any other dots you had running, the only other class (at the time) that could really make a lot of use of it was necromancer because of the dmg tether ticking so fast

in the current game, i think azureblight could still only really work well on necromancer and probably arcanist (since the beam is considered a dot and ticks 3 times per second, and arguably covers more area than the templar jabs)

actually i think azureblight could be really potent on a arcanist because 3 ticks per sec and if your channel lasts 5 sec, that is around 15 stacks for 1 beam + any other dots you had running during that

virtus753

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Bobomb wrote: »

Just noticed that the PTS Azure set states that you're only able to proc an explosion every 0.5 sec. This isnt stated in any patch notes though.

it was listed in the first round pts notes from last week, they changed it so instead of there being a cooldown on stacks generated, the explosion itself was given a cooldown

virtus753 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

jabs was fixed in like u35 to not count as a DOT, but as of live right now its still proccing azureblight (as noted by others in the thread, this change was supposed to have happened way way earlier than that but was never properly fixed until u35 except with the case of azureblight)

this is likely just fixing that

i actually assumed that jabs wasnt proccing azureblight on live because of that fix several updates ago to change it from being counted as a dot, but other players had done testing and proved it still worked

Yes, this is a bugfix, but it is not “just” a bugfix due to the impact it has on the Templar class in endgame PvE.

I believe it was WrathofInnos who pointed out last year that Templar was being “hard carried” by Azure. I pointed out then that that meant we were being hard carried by a bug. Now that the bug is getting fixed, Templar will lose competitiveness in the contexts where Azure helped us do well. We are getting absolutely nothing to help make up for this. Either the devs are not aware of how much Azure is necessary to keep Templar competitive in these contexts - in which case it was all the more important to get timely notes so we could inform them (and point them to the numerous logs they will have missed in that case) - or they are aware and see no issue with Templars continuing to lose damage, utility, and identity. Both alternatives are concerning to me.

ETA: I should also mention this is the second set taken away from Templars in two updates. Templars can make Plaguebreak work best because of the unique class buff to weapon and spell damage, which increased Plaguebreak’s explosion. It is very demoralizing to lose yet another set we use very well with no compensation.

i personally never used plaguebreak or azureblight on my stamplar lol, since u35 i have been using stormfist+pillar of nirn+perfected whorl of the depths with a maelstrom bow back bar weapon (the only reason i changed gear around u35 was because i was dropping deadly for perfected whorl after i finished farming the items i needed for it, not because of the u35 changes lol)

never had any problems and this is still my highest dps toon and the toon i primarily use as dps for trials (helped the group i run with clear vet kynes aegis HMs) and i was the 4th highest dps in the group (for disclosure our group does not scorepush or trifecta the trials, we just go for clears), so this is where i have a hard time believing some people say that certain classes must use certain sets to be good at all unless your absolute hardcore scorepushing/trifecta trial runs

Hence the term “competitive” above.

Personally I wouldn’t say Templar isn’t “good” without these sets - I agree with you that it is competent to complete content. Like you, I parsed for vKA HM (and then Dawnbringer) without Azure. I didn’t run it there because I tested it against other sets during our prog and wasn’t getting better results. There are many encounters - especially HM and tris - where Azure can do much better than it can in vKA, though. Not even just the Mage in AA, where our execute can easily get interrupted and set on a 1.8-second cooldown, meaning other sources of damage become even more important. For GS post U35, I’m still seeing Azure perform very well on Lokke and trash. For SS, Azure can do very well on twins and reef. (Bow Breaker doesn’t have a listing to sort by in ESO Logs, but it was quite possible to exceed 300k with Plaguebreak. I did it multiple times myself, and I’m sure I’m not alone.) Leaving that kind of damage on the table is a big loss for the group. Deleting it or switching it away from Templar to another class is a loss for Templar.

i personally didnt like azureblight when i have tried it, because on most classes it takes far far too long to actually build 20 stacks to get the explosion

it only even worked OK on templar because jabs was 3 hits per second + any other dots you had running, the only other class (at the time) that could really make a lot of use of it was necromancer because of the dmg tether ticking so fast

in the current game, i think azureblight could still only really work well on necromancer and probably arcanist (since the beam is considered a dot and ticks 3 times per second, and arguably covers more area than the templar jabs)

actually i think azureblight could be really potent on a arcanist because 3 ticks per sec and if your channel lasts 5 sec, that is around 15 stacks for 1 beam + any other dots you had running during that

Yes, Arcanist should theoretically be able to use it very well. Fatecarver properly procs Azure and things like Runecarver multiple times on multiple enemies per second. The 5x15 area is significantly larger than the 6x8 of jabs, but it’s not always aligned in the optimal direction, since it’s a narrower but much longer area. Which shape is better depends on the pull, but if the Arcanist can position well it has much more potential than Jabs. And Fatecarver is indeed already demonstrably overpowered in cleave situations even without Azure, so it’s not like Arcanist needs the help - which is my point.

The only snag I found is that Fatecarver has an undisclosed but noticeable delay between casting the skill and when it begins to do damage. That made Jabs actually apply slightly more stacks per second in comparison, since it’s three hits in 0.8 seconds compared to one hit every 0.3 seconds with anywhere from a 0.3-0.5 second delay between casting and the initial damage being done. Jabs also allows smoother weaving and an easier time turning back to other skills or mechanics as required. So on live Jabs can be competitive with Fatecarver in terms of proccing Azure in my testing.

Kram8ion

Mmm now the set is completely trash

shinry

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi all, thanks for pointing this out. We checked and we did indeed missed this patchnote. We are adding the note in now, but wanted to follow up here first.

Azureblight Reaper: Fixed an issue where this set could build up stacks with non damage over time effects such as Flurry or Puncturing Strikes.

Why do this instead of making it work with 'channels' as well? It is confusing enough that jabs is a direct damage channel where beam is damage over time channel. It sucks already that beam and jabs are buffed by opposing CP nodes. This just feels like going out of your way to give Templars another middle finger and feels really bad. It comes across as it being gatekept from Templars specifically as other classes can still stack it just as well, especially with Arcanist constantly beaming over a greater area anyway...

virtus753

@ZOS_Kevin This patch note was missed again on live.

ZOS_Kevin

@virtus753 Thanks for flagging. I'll update the notes.

virtus753

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@virtus753 Thanks for flagging. I'll update the notes.

Thanks very much!

virtus753

@ZOS_Kevin Sorry to keep pinging you, but this note was added as an independent bullet point without a set. It comes after Gossamer in the list of changes, so it's not clear that it belongs to Azureblight at all.