if your crit % goes down

WrathOfInnos

I respect that they have finally taken a small step towards balancing mundus stones. Unfortunately it doesn't change anything because there are no decent options to balance it against.

Shadow is entirely useless in PVE due to the crit damage cap. Lover is also rarely needed in group PVE. Apprentice and Warrior are both too weak to be real options, at about 80% the damage impact of Thief even post nerf. Tower and Mage are simply awful choices, worth just over half of Thief for damage (we just don't have good multipliers on max resources anymore).

I'm not saying to give Thief the sledgehammer, the small adjustment approach is great. We just need to bring some other options up as Thief drops down to be in balance. Removing the crit damage cap would return Shadow as a viable option, and hybridizing Apprentice/Warrior along with a 20-25% buff would be good.

virtus753

merpins wrote: »

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

Slimecraw is budgeted that way because the second piece is a named buff that is easy to get from other sources. That was given as the official reason by the devs in a developer comment when they issued an earlier round of crit chance nerfs.

If they nerf Slimecraw's crit chance so its first piece is in line with every other set bonus, they will rightfully be pressed to make up for it to maintain that monster set's budget.

Dagoth_Rac

virtus753 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

Slimecraw is budgeted that way because the second piece is a named buff that is easy to get from other sources. That was given as the official reason by the devs in a developer comment when they issued an earlier round of crit chance nerfs.

If they nerf Slimecraw's crit chance so its first piece is in line with every other set bonus, they will rightfully be pressed to make up for it to maintain that monster set's budget.

Nerfed Slimecraw:
(1 item) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(2 items) Adds 114 Critical Chance. Gain Minor Berserk at all times, increasing your damage done by 5%

ZOS: Nothing has changed!
Players:

Vulkunne

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I respect that they have finally taken a small step towards balancing mundus stones. Unfortunately it doesn't change anything because there are no decent options to balance it against.

Shadow is entirely useless in PVE due to the crit damage cap. Lover is also rarely needed in group PVE. Apprentice and Warrior are both too weak to be real options, at about 80% the damage impact of Thief even post nerf. Tower and Mage are simply awful choices, worth just over half of Thief for damage (we just don't have good multipliers on max resources anymore).

I'm not saying to give Thief the sledgehammer, the small adjustment approach is great. We just need to bring some other options up as Thief drops down to be in balance. Removing the crit damage cap would return Shadow as a viable option, and hybridizing Apprentice/Warrior along with a 20-25% buff would be good.

Correct. When I get some time this week I'll probably begin moving off Thief. My answer was similar to this, a little bit different. Point is there are other things that also need to be buffed, if possible, and this post is a great way of sort of deliberating what that might be.

Alharion

Basically dps in TESO is useless lol, thank you zos, goodbye zos !!!!

virtus753

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

Slimecraw is budgeted that way because the second piece is a named buff that is easy to get from other sources. That was given as the official reason by the devs in a developer comment when they issued an earlier round of crit chance nerfs.

If they nerf Slimecraw's crit chance so its first piece is in line with every other set bonus, they will rightfully be pressed to make up for it to maintain that monster set's budget.

Nerfed Slimecraw:
(1 item) Adds 657 Critical Chance
(2 items) Adds 114 Critical Chance. Gain Minor Berserk at all times, increasing your damage done by 5%

ZOS: Nothing has changed!
Players:

That was the obvious way to distribute the budget, yes.

MidniteOwl1913

OBJnoob wrote: »

ZOS: Gonna nerf the thief so it's equal to other mundus stones.

Players: Every single character I have uses the thief. Why would they do this??

Me: LOL. What's funny about that is hopefully pretty obvious. But just to lay it out in greater detail:

If you PvE folks want build diversity (I'm not saying you do but it gets said from time to time,) and more gear sets to choose from you may have to accept that certain staples will need to be nerfed or adjusted. There's only so many ways to hit the crit cap with as much crit % as possible.

Either way... 1 or 2% crit percent reduction is kinda a small deal isn't it? The sky isn't falling, ladies and gents, that was just a rain drop.

What they really should do is give all monsters 5k more resistances and invite some pen to the party. But let me stop before some khajiit comes for my scalp!

I don't *want* build diversity. What I want is stability! What I want is to look forward to updates and changes, not dread every blasted change! What I want is to just play for a year with the same setup and have be the same!

Sorry, I'm just tired of having to rework and rework and rework just to stay in the same place. I'm tired of arbitrary change.

Marcus684

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

ZOS: Gonna nerf the thief so it's equal to other mundus stones.

Players: Every single character I have uses the thief. Why would they do this??

Me: LOL. What's funny about that is hopefully pretty obvious. But just to lay it out in greater detail:

If you PvE folks want build diversity (I'm not saying you do but it gets said from time to time,) and more gear sets to choose from you may have to accept that certain staples will need to be nerfed or adjusted. There's only so many ways to hit the crit cap with as much crit % as possible.

Either way... 1 or 2% crit percent reduction is kinda a small deal isn't it? The sky isn't falling, ladies and gents, that was just a rain drop.

What they really should do is give all monsters 5k more resistances and invite some pen to the party. But let me stop before some khajiit comes for my scalp!

I don't *want* build diversity. What I want is stability! What I want is to look forward to updates and changes, not dread every blasted change! What I want is to just play for a year with the same setup and have be the same!

Sorry, I'm just tired of having to rework and rework and rework just to stay in the same place. I'm tired of arbitrary change.

Lol you don't have to change anything for this "nerf", as it's so tiny. Also, if you crave an unchanging landscape, but also just have to have the absolute best build, then maybe active MMOs are not for you. Every MMO that isn't in maintenance mode constantly introduces changes and tweaks the numbers in this game, as it's how they get players to log in more often to level skills/farm gear/etc. in the never ending search for the "meta" build.

Ingel_Riday

It occurred to me that this is probably the place for this comment.

Sure, the thief stone is VERY heavily used by the community, but there is a reason for that. I'll use myself as an anecdotal example.

I used to use the apprentice stone, because I liked the spell damage. I had enough crit chance bonuses from my gear and the champion point system to get pretty close to 50% crit chance without the thief stone, so I didn't use it. Probably would have been better off with shadow than apprentice, but it didn't appeal to me.

Then ZOS repeatedly nerfed the crit chance boosts that armor gave, but I held out. Lost more crit than I wanted, but I was okay...ish.

Then ZOS nerfed the crit chance boosts that the Champion Point gave, and I had to switch to the thief stone in order to make up the difference. I couldn't afford to lose THAT MUCH CRIT because of what it would do to my damage. I switched with a lot of grumbling and dour looks. Did not like doing it.

if ZOS hadn't nerfed crit chances sources over and over and over and over, I wouldn't be running thief. Most of us wouldn't be. I wish the answer to thief's popularity was "give them back other sources of crit chance so that they don't feel obligated to take it in order to hit 50% and can start looking elsewhere again" and not "slowly, incrementally, grind thief into the dirt so that they'll eventually have to use the other stones just because of sheer math."

As is, this decrease still leaves thief mandatory for dps because of crit chance nerfs everywhere else. This doesn't solve anything, and I'm sure when the current team realizes that... they'll nerf thief again, and again, incrementally... slowly turning the water to a boil until we have to hop to the next least-awful stone.

It's not fun. ZOS has a great team over there, but I wish their balancing felt less like whack-a-mole. Why do people use thief so much? When did they use it less? Why did they use it less? The answers are there. They're not that obfuscated by time.

Ragnarok0130

ArchMikem wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

It's another nerf in a LONG line of nerfs, the "crying" is at the fact the nerfs to Critical just won't stop.

After U35 it appears that ZoS wishes to do death by a thousand cuts so we don't notice until it's too late. Lots of consecutive little nerfs all add up to big overall nerfs in the long run.

madman65

How much damage has ESO/ZOS taken away should be the question. Take the crit reduction and apply it to all the damage, skills and set procs. ESO/ZOS has been over the past year and a half (I may be wrong) slowly reducing our overall damage. They give us a little then take a sizable amount back later.

virtus753

madman65 wrote: »

How much damage has ESO/ZOS taken away should be the question. Take the crit reduction and apply it to all the damage, skills and set procs. ESO/ZOS has been over the past year and a half (I may be wrong) slowly reducing our overall damage. They give us a little then take a sizable amount back later.

There is going to be a damage boost next update when “damage done” boosts apply to proc sets, which they have never done before. But they’re paring back some power across the board with things like crit chance cuts, which affect all (edit: almost all, since Crit Rush will obviously still be guaranteed) skills but not all procs. So it will be interesting to see where the overall damage output ends up relative to now, but the changes seem on paper to favor leaning further into proc sets.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about combat mechanics.

Thank you for your understanding

Melzo

I read this and still do not understand what is the reason for the crit chance reduction. In fact, every mundus has a use. I take a lover and in pvp and pve (dungeons for 4 people and solo) I take a mundus for spell damage or weapon damage, depending on who I play. Dk or templar. I've used every mundus including the run speed and regeneration boosts. Each mundus can be used in different situations, but the crit nerf doesn't change anything. Only reduces damage a little and still you don't have much choice in choosing in a trial.

MudcrabAttack

It seems like they’re almost standardizing things except for the weapon traits, I’d also mention armor weight although it’s more complicated than simple division

Warrior / Thief = 43 weapon damage per 1 % critical

Swords / Daggers (PTS) = 43 weapon damage per 1 % critical

Nirn / Precise (Staff/bow) = 28 weapon damage per 1 % critical

1 Pc Medium Armor / 1 Pc Light Armor (5000 weapon damage base) = 100 weapon damage per 1 % critical

1 Pc Velidreth / 1 Pc Slimecraw = 37 weapon damage per 1 % critical