if your crit % goes down

phaneub17_ESO

9.0.7 notes:

Reduced the Critical Chance rating granted from The Thief Mundus Stone to 1212, down from 1333, so it fits properly within power budgets of other stones.

Vulkunne

Bad change

Marcus684

9% reduction. Not that big of a deal. Seems like a reasonable way for ZOS to continue to combat power creep with a scalpel instead of a sledgehammer.

Toxic_Hemlock

Isn't it "nice" when a balance "fix" is thrown in on a maintenance patch, so as 99% of players won't even know it happened?!

Almost all of my characters use the thief mundas btw, so this is gonna hurt.

Dagoth_Rac

With 7 Divines, I think it is about a 0.84% reduction in crit chance. Not huge, but why? It will be a very noticeable nerf because Thief is popular and people have a good feel for their crit stats, so it will antagonize players. But not have much impact. It feels like a nerf just for the sake of a nerf.

PrinceShroob

Pre-patch (yesterday 7/11/2023):



Post-patch (today 7/12/2023):



It's about a 1% difference in Critical Chance and has pretty much no impact on your actual damage output from my testing; more precisely, the difference ranges between 0.8% and 1.5%-ish. I'm assuming that these differences are due to how Combat Metrics is calculating my Critical Chance, since the character's build was the same between these parses.

I would provide the actual parse numbers for comparison, but I believe that the parse I screenshotted yesterday had an anomalously high percentage of critical hits and I seem to have subtly shifted how I was parsing since yesterday (this was on Necromancer, which I do not usually play beyond Elemental Catalyst and don't typically parse on, but this was my most recent parse), so I can't replicate yesterday's parse well enough to get a proper damage comparison.

I will be honest, I calculated the actual change in Critical Chance to be about 1% based on the notes (219 Critical Chance is approximately 1% in percentage), so I wanted to get a Combat Metrics screencap as soon as possible to head off any overreactions.

Four_Fingers

Something strange, that isn't in the PlayStation patch note.

fizl101

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Something strange, that isn't in the PlayStation patch note.

I assume we will get it in the next patch, the PC patch notes are longer than the 2 console notes

Ascarl

Any crit nerf is a Khajiit nerf

Four_Fingers

Our crux doesn't drop out after 30 seconds yet either.
Wish they would get these patches synchronized.

virtus753

Regardless of magnitude, why wasn’t this included in the balance changes being tested right now on PTS?

This is not the first time they have nerfed mundus stones in an incremental. It is not the optimal policy, imo, when they have a PTS and should be using it before pushing changes to live.

Marcus684

PrinceShroob wrote: »

... I wanted to get a Combat Metrics screencap as soon as possible to head off any overreactions.

Good luck with that. Any nerf to damage output, no matter how slight, will bring forth the torches and pitchforks.

Vulkunne

Marcus684 wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

... I wanted to get a Combat Metrics screencap as soon as possible to head off any overreactions.

Good luck with that. Any nerf to damage output, no matter how slight, will bring forth the torches and pitchforks.

Why shouldn't it? In the past they've nerfed dmg and healing pretty hard and I don't see this game being worth playing without Crits to offset the nerfs. Should I go into a Trial or PvP on just base dmg & base healing alone... c'mon man.

Secondly, unless you invest in 5 pc sets that specifically give nice crit boosts, there are limited sources to boost your crit%. Especially if you want to use other things instead, you can't really do that.

So yes any change to crit% is alarming because it means some builds walking the line, they still work, but even a small change to crit% can have an impact on those builds. A little here, a little there adds up. They know Thief is basically the backbone for players who are into this setup so any changes there hits home.

And anyone concerned about this should feel free to speak up, better to speak up now than wait and do nothing. And they have made major nerfs to crit% in the past which regardless of opinion have forced changes in builds so things like this are important and these kinds of changes need to be tracked. Preferably on the PTS first instead of being shoe-horned in with smaller patches.

It does not bode well for trust in the change so by all means, feel free to speak up if you want.

Shepoffire

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

Tommy_The_Gun

So it goes down from like 6% to 5,5%. Not a huge nerf, but a nerf nonetheless.

merpins

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

ArchMikem

Ascarl wrote: »

Any crit nerf is a Khajiit nerf

All four of my Khajiit have been crying for years with every nerf to Critical Chance sources. I still remember a time when getting to 70% was simple. Now it takes specific sets and serious stat sacrifices just to hit 45%, unless you're a Nightblade.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

merpins wrote: »

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

Please don't give them any ideas.

Lumenn

Hmm. Some sorc builds rely on crits for heals too(dead birds don't heal well). Any nerf to crits will hurt their dmg AND survivability. Getting used to all the changes is gonna take a minute...

RicAlmighty

Shepoffire wrote: »

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

If it is that insignificant, then why do it at all?

jaws343

RicAlmighty wrote: »

Shepoffire wrote: »

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

If it is that insignificant, then why do it at all?

I think part of why they normalize numbers is that it makes balance passes more straightfoward. Especially for the specific thing they are normalizing, but also for the items/skills/passives that interact with it.

It makes the damage calculations more predictable. They can input a change to a set and know exactly how that is going to impact the final number downstream based on the normalized values for anything that may interact with it. So, instead of having to individually go down the line, skill by skill, modifier by modifier, they know X skills/sets/modifiers have X power.

ArchMikem

Shepoffire wrote: »

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

It's another nerf in a LONG line of nerfs, the "crying" is at the fact the nerfs to Critical just won't stop.

Finedaible

Yeah, it is small, but It's pretty messed up that every time I find a crit build that I like and gold out, they come around and start messing with crit chance again for no reason. They also lowered daggers critical as well.

They are probably putting some new op mythic in whatever they are cooking up for later this year, but I do not care to chase more bait.

tsaescishoeshiner

This is like 0.5% percent worth of crit chance, before Divines. Everyone's builds are fine. If the Thief had been at this value already, we wouldn't think it was underpowered.

Crit chance has been THE build for PvE, and between this and the daggers nerf, they're small changes that might slightly open other build options.

This is nothing compared to when Critical Damage was capped, for example. I think that getting upset over this, or conspiracizing about it being a secret way to sell a future Mythic item, would just be a drain of one's own energy. Mine's too limited for that lol!

the1andonlyskwex

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

This + the dagger changes is about a 3% crit rate drop. Which is a decent size nerf. People that got by with 52% crit rate are now under 50%, for example. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this patch cycle if Slimecraw gets nerfed to do just as much crit as any other monster helm.

Please don't give them any ideas.

I've never understood why they boosted Slimecraw's 1 pc bonus. On every other set that they buffed to make up for the final set bonus being a named buff, they put the extra on the final set bonus (rather than on the 1 or 4 piece bonuses).

KlauthWarthog

Oh great, another indirect nerf to khajiit's racial bonuses.
They could have updated the Warrior and Apprentice stones to this new era of hybridization, but I guess just nerfing Thief takes far less mental effort.

vsrs_au

It made very little difference to the crit% on my main char: it dropped from 68.8% to 67.9%.

OBJnoob

ZOS: Gonna nerf the thief so it's equal to other mundus stones.

Players: Every single character I have uses the thief. Why would they do this??

Me: LOL. What's funny about that is hopefully pretty obvious. But just to lay it out in greater detail:

If you PvE folks want build diversity (I'm not saying you do but it gets said from time to time,) and more gear sets to choose from you may have to accept that certain staples will need to be nerfed or adjusted. There's only so many ways to hit the crit cap with as much crit % as possible.

Either way... 1 or 2% crit percent reduction is kinda a small deal isn't it? The sky isn't falling, ladies and gents, that was just a rain drop.

What they really should do is give all monsters 5k more resistances and invite some pen to the party. But let me stop before some khajiit comes for my scalp!

Ingel_Riday

Not a big fan of covert nerfs. Saw that my crit chance dropped, thought I had glitched out, and then had to dig into the incremental patch notes to find the source.

I'm trying to think of the last time they balanced things by improving the less-used abilities /stones instead of taking scalpels and/or sledgehammers to the most popular things. Can't quite recall an example off the top of my head. *shrug*

Also, to OBJnoob... have you ever heard of death by a thousand cuts? They nerf dots, they nerf AOEs, they nerf champion point passives, they nerf this, flame staves are getting the nerf bat in a few months, etc.. This isn't an isolated, fluke nerf. It's a pattern.

They keep grinding people away, bit by bit. The elites will eventually shift to other weapons / stones / abilities to mitigate the pain. But the average player? Just gets lowered further and further below the trial dps bar. I miss the people that left after Updates 35 and 36 for Final Fantasy XIV. These nerfs aren't helping with that.

So no, not the end of the world, but yet another nerf on top of other nerfs. Not great. Not encouraging.

TaSheen

Ingel_Riday wrote: »

Not a big fan of covert nerfs. Saw that my crit chance dropped, thought I had glitched out, and then had to dig into the incremental patch notes to find the source.

I'm trying to think of the last time they balanced things by improving the less-used abilities /stones instead of taking scalpels and/or sledgehammers to the most popular things. Can't quite recall an example off the top of my head. *shrug*

Also, to OBJnoob... have you ever heard of death by a thousand cuts? They nerf dots, they nerf AOEs, they nerf champion point passives, they nerf this, flame staves are getting the nerf bat in a few months, etc.. This isn't an isolated, fluke nerf. It's a pattern.

They keep grinding people away, bit by bit. The elites will eventually shift to other weapons / stones / abilities to mitigate the pain. But the average player? Just gets lowered further and further below the trial dps bar. I miss the people that left after Updates 35 and 36 for Final Fantasy XIV. These nerfs aren't helping with that.

So no, not the end of the world, but yet another nerf on top of other nerfs. Not great. Not encouraging.

Agree. Stealth nerfs SUCK. So not right....

Dr_Con

Shepoffire wrote: »

Y'all crying about such a baby nerf. Yeah it sucks but it's negligible

the ceiling on crit chance is 100%, no one gets to 100%. a nerf to crit chance is a nerf to everyone.