NO!! "While grouped, you can no longer leave an instanced area while in combat."

thadjarvis

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

VictorDragonslayer

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can we get a response? This "fix" will remove a workaround for "stuck in combat" bug and make resetting more time consuming. Is dev team aware of these implications, or they live up to their reputation again?

Jaraal

VictorDragonslayer wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin Can we get a response? This "fix" will remove a workaround for "stuck in combat" bug and make resetting more time consuming. Is dev team aware of these implications, or they live up to their reputation again?

We've been asking for them to fix the stuck in combat bug for years, and what do we get?


Update 38: Stuck in combat is now extended to looting, you have to roll or bar swap to target corpses or nodes.

Update 39: You can no longer attempt to fix the stuck in combat bug by porting to a new location.

Update 40: Permanently stuck in combat?

acastanza_ESO

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Spell-Slinger

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

Darrell9090

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

I am not absolute sure, but I would say that most - around 80-90% - of the *stuck in combat* problems in Dungeons or Trials occur only because of one and ONLY one reason alone. That reason is: rushing through all adds and trash-mobs, without killing them, only to get to the boss as fast as possible and skipping everything inbetween .

Yeah, I do know that the reason for this is, that alot of players have done those Dungeons and Trials a trillions times, yada, yada, etc., etc. and so on . Nevertheless. If you would stop rushing through, you would reduce the stupid *stuck in combat bug* alot!

There is also the issue some enemies get stuck in no lands land by getting under the ground or stuck in the walls where we can’t hurt them. I have seen this issue happen in pretty much every dungeon in eso. This makes it by default you’re stuck in combat the entire time. If your grouped doing pledges want to port out repair sell stuff turn into quests you will now be forced to port to the wayshrine, if it will let you somtimes the combat bug doesn’t let you even port out of a place. This means people will have to walk out of the dungeon by running back to the beginning once again. Then there are the trial bugs. Not long ago was helping a group in subspire we killed all the mobs. We wiped to the eternal servant we were all stuck in combat still. Everyone of us but one left instance to travel back in. We ran through the entire trial not a single enemy left. This has been a common issue for years what we used to do was leave group and regroup which takes a little longer than leave instance and travel back in.

Turtle_Bot

There's also the bug in Scalecaller Peak where once you complete the final boss, you're stuck in combat until you jump off the cliff or use the PTE port to port out of the dungeon. You can't even use the portal that goes back to the beginning of the dungeon because it pulls you back into the boss's room with the "Joining Encounter in Progress" message, same thing if you try to use the door to the room.

Like the dungeon is done and finished, final boss is long dead, NPCs have done their little monologues, but you're still stuck in combat and if this change goes through without that bug being fixed it's either jump off a cliff, disband the entire group or you're trapped in the dungeon forever... Gonna make farming that dungeon the absolute worst.

This has got to be one of the least thought out changes they've proposed (and there's been far too many of those made to count).

FantasticFreddie

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

The problem: bugged instances in PVE.

Common examples: 1) group wipe where no one can rez because despite being dead, everyone is stuck in combat
2) one (or more) people unable to be rezzed because it appears to the group as "pending" but the player still says "waiting for combat to end."
The fix to both is people port out, and back in. However, if you added the restriction of no one can port back in while the group is in combat, you remove that work around.

Now, if Zos would just FIX THEIR GAME this would never be an issue. But as is, I've had both of those bugs this week alone, and I don't want to hear about "well maybe you shouldn't skip trash" because #1 is VERY common in vDSR on Taleria, a trial I have never skipped trash with any group I run with (although I suppose we can't discount a bugged add in a wall somewhere) and #2 is a well known and common bug in vAS+2, where there IS no trash.

ShadowPaladin

First. Let me say, that I am no fan of this change.

Second. Regarding all those *stuck in combat* problems. As far as I can recall, I mostly had (have) those problems - I would say in 8 out of 10 times - with *Rusher / Rush-Groups*. They are running through the dungeon, aggroing all on the way, to the 1st Boss and there they hope that the NPCs do reset or that they will kill the Players, so that there will be a aggro reset. The problem with that is, in most cases not all NPCs loose aggro and reset. Instead they keep aggro, which results in Players being *stuck in combat* . In addition to that some of the NPCs sometimes do NOT return to their proper places, but instead get stuck inside the terrain !

So... With that said, I think at least 50% of the *stuck in combat* problems are made by the players themselves. If they would stop their stupid *rushing* and just kill all along the way, they wouldn't get that stupid bug and would need to port out and in again or in some cases give up on the dungeon/trial completely!!!

The other 50% of the problem is on ZOS side :P . Some of the code which defines when someone gets out of aggro etc. isn't working all to good. For example in PvP I, most of the time, get the *stuck in combat* bug after I used a DoT on another Player or he used it on me and he or I didn't die. Even after one of us died, the other one may get *stuck in combat* . Normally all DoT/Attack etc. Flags should be reset after a certain time of not being engaged in fighting or instantly after dying. Sadly, that is not the case.

starkerealm

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

No, you lose vitality when you revive, not when you die. Very technically most "no death," achievements actually check, "no resurrects."

edward_frigidhands

allochthons wrote: »

> While grouped, you can no longer leave an instanced area while in combat.

While I see why this might be desirable, it's extremely problematic for certain fights. For instance, Sunspire. It's pretty common when getting wing-slapped by the dragons to be thrown to a place where you either can't be resurrected, or are stuck in a wall; even if you are resurrected, you can't get back into the arena. The ONLY way to re-enter the fight, or make your body resurrectable, is to leave instance and travel back in.

This would be fine if there was a way to get out of the stuck in combat bug.

KlauthWarthog

So... uhn... would it not be easier, and better, to just lose vitality when someone dies, instead of when someone resurrects?

VictorDragonslayer

starkerealm wrote: »

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

No, you lose vitality when you revive, not when you die. Very technically most "no death," achievements actually check, "no resurrects."

The last part is not true. "No death" is checking for deaths. I've seen 36/36 which weren't trifectas - a person died, but wasn't resurrected.

Darrell9090

ShadowPaladin wrote: »

First. Let me say, that I am no fan of this change.

Second. Regarding all those *stuck in combat* problems. As far as I can recall, I mostly had (have) those problems - I would say in 8 out of 10 times - with *Rusher / Rush-Groups*. They are running through the dungeon, aggroing all on the way, to the 1st Boss and there they hope that the NPCs do reset or that they will kill the Players, so that there will be a aggro reset. The problem with that is, in most cases not all NPCs loose aggro and reset. Instead they keep aggro, which results in Players being *stuck in combat* . In addition to that some of the NPCs sometimes do NOT return to their proper places, but instead get stuck inside the terrain !

So... With that said, I think at least 50% of the *stuck in combat* problems are made by the players themselves. If they would stop their stupid *rushing* and just kill all along the way, they wouldn't get that stupid bug and would need to port out and in again or in some cases give up on the dungeon/trial completely!!!

The other 50% of the problem is on ZOS side :P . Some of the code which defines when someone gets out of aggro etc. isn't working all to good. For example in PvP I, most of the time, get the *stuck in combat* bug after I used a DoT on another Player or he used it on me and he or I didn't die. Even after one of us died, the other one may get *stuck in combat* . Normally all DoT/Attack etc. Flags should be reset after a certain time of not being engaged in fighting or instantly after dying. Sadly, that is not the case.

Even in none rushing groups you still get stuck in combat. Always somthing falling into the wall somewhere. Was doing black haven the other day the harpy’s decided to fly into the wall and get stuck. We were not rushing I chained it in it moved into a wall out of my control as it was on a crowd control timer. This lead to combat being there and not able to get through one of the doors even when we stealthed up. We had to leave instance and reset the dungeon. Yeah rusher groups will miss some and get stuck this will occur in non rushing situations to.

Darrell9090

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

The best fix for this issue would just have port out be considered a death boom nd cheese fixed. Most nd like doing vmos or vfl nd already count disconnects as a death. Why wouldn’t they add that into trials groups doing that as well.

Darrell9090

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Problem not allowing people to port in would stop another workaround. When I did subspire a week ago we had stuck in combat bug everything in the trial was dead we took our time. When we wiped to the eternal servant we were all stuck in combat. So the fox was to port out port back in and meetup before walking back into that last fight. If you stop us from porting back in then this can not occur the trial is over as there will be no way to walk in rez everyone or meet up at the door once being in combat would prevent others from coming back in.

Darrell9090

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

I think they count dcing as a death never paid attention to that in trials I do know in doing dungeon achievements like nd in vmos or vfl if you dc it counts as a death. I would see no reason why that wouldn’t also be the case in a trial as well.

TKo_ROUSE

Darrell9090 wrote: »

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

I think they count dcing as a death never paid attention to that in trials I do know in doing dungeon achievements like nd in vmos or vfl if you dc it counts as a death. I would see no reason why that wouldn’t also be the case in a trial as well.

DC does not count as a death unless they die. They usually just stand around for up to a minute. Eventually they disappear and go offline but before that they can die just as normal.

Source have trifecta's with player's who dc'd mid run. Got a Godslayer a month ago where someone was dc'd for 5 minutes mid nahvi and we just got back in time to finish at 29:50 something.

TKo_ROUSE

I personally would be fine with a PTE counting as a loss of vitality. Hopefully that would not affect DC's as unintended dc's in this game happen far too often.

Darrell9090

TKo_ROUSE wrote: »

Darrell9090 wrote: »

Spell-Slinger wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

thadjarvis wrote: »

If the reason behind this is players cheesing no death runs, there is an alternate solution: add code to the button/hotkey such that when a player uses it to exit the instance, group vitality drops.

Yep, this is a much better solution. If you port out, it is a "death". And if that's still not enough, maybe just don't allow people to port back in while the group is still in combat instead of preventing you from leaving. You should always be able to nope your way out of content you don't want to be stuck in anymore.

Wouldn't that take away vitality bonus if someone just happened to DC though? Also I'm sorry, how many people are able to panic-port out of a dungeon instead of dying? Don't deaths usually happen like... quickly and unexpectedly in content, because you screwed something up and got one-shot? Hardly enough time to open the party menu and press "port out".

I think they count dcing as a death never paid attention to that in trials I do know in doing dungeon achievements like nd in vmos or vfl if you dc it counts as a death. I would see no reason why that wouldn’t also be the case in a trial as well.

DC does not count as a death unless they die. They usually just stand around for up to a minute. Eventually they disappear and go offline but before that they can die just as normal.

Source have trifecta's with player's who dc'd mid run. Got a Godslayer a month ago where someone was dc'd for 5 minutes mid nahvi and we just got back in time to finish at 29:50 something.

Every personality run I have done has always counted as a death even if they didn’t die. I have run 100s through fang lair if I had a dollar for every dc that happened during a nd they reconnect alive and the nd didn’t happen I wouldn’t have to work at Walmart anymore. Just tested this the other day in vmos helping someone get beast one of them dced didn’t die we kill last boss they didn’t get their nd. For years dc has counted as a death at least in dungeons with my experience.

athena9205

imho this is not a good idea. I've been in PVE dungeons and trials where the group can't rez because there is someone in combat mode. If the group dies while in combat mode stasis you can't rez. There is a work around and that one person "leave instance" outside the trial or dungeon you auto rez then can jump back to group. And then the group can go leave instance and come back and all are rezed and the trial/dungeon is not lost. @Zos please modify this so you can't leave instance in a group unless there aren't any living group members (NOT INCLUDING COMPANIONS, they like to be alive while group is dead and mess the whole thing up)

Dr_Con

p x e t e

VictorDragonslayer

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno We are eagerly awaiting your response.

Darrell9090

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_KaiSchober can any of you read through this and answer the concerns we all currently have by this change.

Jaraal

Darrell9090 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Bill @ZOS_Icy @ZOS_Adrikoth @ZOS_KaiSchober can any of you read through this and answer the concerns we all currently have by this change.

Week three with no change or comment is a virtual lock to make it to live.

This was supposed to be the year of QOL improvements, but it's turned out to be mostly QOL nerfs.

M0ntie

Please tell us this is getting scrapped!!!! It is going to make all the many game bugs torture with no way out!

KlauthWarthog

Disappointing, but not really all that unexpected. It seems they prefer to inflict a brand new problem instead of acknowledging that there is such a thing as an in-combat bug.

Necrotech_Master

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

There's also the bug in Scalecaller Peak where once you complete the final boss, you're stuck in combat until you jump off the cliff or use the PTE port to port out of the dungeon. You can't even use the portal that goes back to the beginning of the dungeon because it pulls you back into the boss's room with the "Joining Encounter in Progress" message, same thing if you try to use the door to the room.

Like the dungeon is done and finished, final boss is long dead, NPCs have done their little monologues, but you're still stuck in combat and if this change goes through without that bug being fixed it's either jump off a cliff, disband the entire group or you're trapped in the dungeon forever... Gonna make farming that dungeon the absolute worst.

This has got to be one of the least thought out changes they've proposed (and there's been far too many of those made to count).

volenfell has a similar problem when running the quest (the part at the end when you get attacked by infinite skeletons), you get left in combat even after you get through the door to turn in the quest

you cant port out due to being in combat, so before the "leave instance" was even a thing you had to either die or run back to the dungeon entrance to get out

xWALK1NGxTNT420

finally!!! so tired of ppl in imp city having friends queue them out while in fights...

blktauna

Lol you cant get out even if you aren't in a group