Refusing to turn in relics to stall the game

derkaiserliche

I had two games now, where we were like 2 or max 3 players in our team and one team refused to turn in the last relic, stalling the game for 5-7 more minutes as result.

This is a very bad mannered and cocky move towards the teams with afks or either with "pve-players", that just take part in the event. (Which is of course totally fine).

I even spoke to the guys afterwards and of course they were some cocky 18 year old kids. Is this punishable or wont eso do anything against it anyways?

Danikat

I don't know if ZOS will do anything, but I don't think you get any penalty for incorrect reports as long as you don't spam the report function or encourage mass reporting, so I'd say report them and see what happens.

I've seen something similar which I think was an honest mistake. Someone on my team got one of the relics and then just stood at the enemy base holding it, I think they were trying to put it back on the altar. But I think they really didn't realise, they just kept saying the colour matched that altar and we had to explain the idea is to steal the relics and take them to your base, not return them to their owners.

Once we'd got them to try taking it to our base and they saw it worked they started playing normally. Not that it mattered much, both other teams were pretty much afk or trying to play death match against each other, which is how we were able to stand at the enemy base chatting for a few minutes.

derkaiserliche

Danikat wrote: »

I don't know if ZOS will do anything, but I don't think you get any penalty for incorrect reports as long as you don't spam the report function or encourage mass reporting, so I'd say report them and see what happens.

I've seen something similar which I think was an honest mistake. Someone on my team got one of the relics and then just stood at the enemy base holding it, I think they were trying to put it back on the altar. But I think they really didn't realise, they just kept saying the colour matched that altar and we had to explain the idea is to steal the relics and take them to your base, not return them to their owners.

Once we'd got them to try taking it to our base and they saw it worked they started playing normally. Not that it mattered much, both other teams were pretty much afk or trying to play death match against each other, which is how we were able to stand at the enemy base chatting for a few minutes.

Yea that would be a different case, but they knew exactly what they were doing in these games. They took both relics at once at a time and just danced around in their base, because we were just 2 players each in the opposite teams, so they knew we couldnt get them.

CameraBeardThePirate

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

derkaiserliche

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

You cant kill a 4 man premade pvp group, when you are in a 2 man team. Of course i dont "deserve" the win in a 2v2v4 team, its about the fact they they stall the game out for 7 minutes just to show off, how "easy" they won.

Galeriano

derkaiserliche wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

You cant kill a 4 man premade pvp group, when you are in a 2 man team. Of course i dont "deserve" the win in a 2v2v4 team, its about the fact they they stall the game out for 7 minutes just to show off, how "easy" they won.

They didn't broke any rules. If You didn't like their behaviour You could just leave the game. Not everyone will be playing PvP the way You like them to play it.

Fun fact is that after 2-3 minutes You would kill relic carries pretty easily, since their healing recived and shield values at that point would be reduced to zero.

CameraBeardThePirate

derkaiserliche wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

You cant kill a 4 man premade pvp group, when you are in a 2 man team. Of course i dont "deserve" the win in a 2v2v4 team, its about the fact they they stall the game out for 7 minutes just to show off, how "easy" they won.

You shouldn't be queueing into group queue solo then. If you didn't queue into group then they weren't a premade and they were entirely killable.

Some people want PvP, and when there's no DM Queue, no semblance of balance in some of the modes, and 20min+ long queues at times, they'll extend the objective modes to squeeze in more PvP time.

ArchMikem

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

sarahthes

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

It's still PvP.

CameraBeardThePirate

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

Holding an enemy relic hostage is just playing defense. If you want to score, kill them.

derkaiserliche

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

Holding an enemy relic hostage is just playing defense. If you want to score, kill them.

It think you misunderstood my topic, they had 4 relics secured and 1 left to win (which they carried already). They were no other relics taken, which means they could just go to their base and win the game. Instead they stood 2 meters apart from their base and just stalled the game. This has nothing to do with "defensive play".

To everyone just saying: this is pvp --> no this is nonsense, you dont gain more alliance points by goofing around 7 minutes for no reason, this is just pure arrogance and childish behaviour.

CameraBeardThePirate

derkaiserliche wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

Holding an enemy relic hostage is just playing defense. If you want to score, kill them.

It think you misunderstood my topic, they had 4 relics secured and 1 left to win (which they carried already). They were no other relic that, which means they could just go to their base and win the game. Instead they stood 2 meters apart from their base and just stalled the game. This has nothing to do with "defensive play".

To everyone just saying: this is pvp --> no this is nonsense, you dont gain more alliance points by goofing around 7 minutes for no reason, this is just pure arrogance and childish behaviour.

As I said before, this is a product of people wanting to PvP and not wait in queue. Matches (especially relic) are over far too quickly for how long queue times are.

At the end of the day, it's really just a case of "git gud". They're not doing anything against the rules, and if you hold onto a relic for more than a couple minutes you stop taking healing entirely, meaning it's an entirely solvable problem.

Grizzbeorn

Sounds like you're the one holding up the game.
THEY are obviously spoiling for a fight.
But, you're not bringing it.

They aren't cheating, or doing anything else that is against the rules.

So if you don't like it, either do something about it (engage with them), or get over it.

It's not their fault if you aren't strong enough to engage.

Four_Fingers

Yeah, the days of skill and sportsmanship in online video games is long over.
It is all about the troll now.

kringled_1

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Sounds like you're the one holding up the game.
THEY are obviously spoiling for a fight.
But, you're not bringing it.

They aren't cheating, or doing anything else that is against the rules.

So if you don't like it, either do something about it (engage with them), or get over it.

It's not their fault if you aren't strong enough to engage.

That seems like a charitable way to put it. You could also look at it as a severely imbalanced match, which happens. But rather than quickly ending to hopefully get a more challenging match, the one team has stalled to try to bait the other two teams into getting farmed because they don't feel any threat at all.

kargen27

derkaiserliche wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

"If you can't defeat a player then you don't deserve to win."

Game mode is CTF, not Death match.

Holding an enemy relic hostage is just playing defense. If you want to score, kill them.

It think you misunderstood my topic, they had 4 relics secured and 1 left to win (which they carried already). They were no other relics taken, which means they could just go to their base and win the game. Instead they stood 2 meters apart from their base and just stalled the game. This has nothing to do with "defensive play".

To everyone just saying: this is pvp --> no this is nonsense, you dont gain more alliance points by goofing around 7 minutes for no reason, this is just pure arrogance and childish behaviour.

They wanted to farm for easy kills. I was in a match one time where something like this happened. Our team decided to sit up top and wait it out because being outnumbered we were just fodder. Third team also just stayed home and realizing they would no longer get cheap kills the leading team completed the goals to finish the match.

I normally would not just sit up top but this match was so heavily one sided because of numbers difference in groups there was no point in participating.

Grizzbeorn

A mismatch is also not the fault of the stalling team.

kringled_1 wrote: »

But rather than quickly ending to hopefully get a more challenging match,

That point has been addressed multiple times in this thread, as to the reason why people might resort to taunting other teams to get them to fight instead of being shunted back into the queue for the next match.
They want to be actively playing rather than just sitting there, waiting for the queue to pop.

Katzenzunge

I rarely do PVP these days, but I'm not sure I'd let myself be farmed over and over again, just so the guys trying to play "deathmatch lite" in every instance possible don't have to wait too long.

Like yeah, it's pvp. But these modes do have an objective besides "kill most people the bestest",and stalling on purpose to get more kills/fights/whatever would annoy me as well, tbh.

derkaiserliche

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

A mismatch is also not the fault of the stalling team.

kringled_1 wrote: »

But rather than quickly ending to hopefully get a more challenging match,

That point has been addressed multiple times in this thread, as to the reason why people might resort to taunting other teams to get them to fight instead of being shunted back into the queue for the next match.
They want to be actively playing rather than just sitting there, waiting for the queue to pop.

<snip> I am a on a pretty high pvp rank compared to most players, but i would just get farmed if i rush in vs 4 premade pvpers (with also high ranks) . Every pvp player with some experience know if a game is winnable or not.

The game turned out to be an afk game for 7 minutes for my 2 man team and the other 2 player team without any fights happening. So you cant tell anyone, that they did it to have some more nice fights.

The queue during these events is normally 30sec to like 7minutes btw, so stalling out a game for no reason, doesnt make any sense at all. But if some of guys agree with that of unsportsmanlike behaviour, its alright. Then we might just be different types of persons in terms of age and honor. I would never disrespect another team in this way, especially not if i would be in a 4 player team against a 2 player team.

<snipped for bashing/baiting>

Grizzbeorn

derkaiserliche wrote: »

we might just be different types of persons in terms of age and honor.

I'd be willing to bet I'm older than you, and you trying to impugn my honor after suggesting that official punitive action is appropriate for people who haven't broken any rules is... interesting.

I can understand that it's an annoyance, but you went over the line when you asked if standing and holding a relic was punishable behavior.

derkaiserliche

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

we might just be different types of persons in terms of age and honor.

I'd be willing to bet I'm older than you, and you trying to impugn my honor after suggesting that official punitive action is appropriate for people who haven't broken any rules is... interesting.

I can understand that it's an annoyance, but you went over the line when you asked if standing and holding a relic was punishable behavior.

No i didnt stepped over any lines my friend, bad manners and disrespectful behaviour shouldnt be tolerated just because it happens in pvp.

But i am happy to see you fight for the relic 25 times together with one other guy against 4 people over and over again, just because they think its funny to waste your time. I bet you are one of the kids, that leaves directly when the games turns into the favour of another team. But here you are acting like pvp pro, that needs to teach me about skill. Laughable.

DrNukenstein

These are the real heroes of the game. The people who keep the game open so the players can have fun before they have to wait in queue again.

Diminish

derkaiserliche wrote: »

I had two games now, where we were like 2 or max 3 players in our team and one team refused to turn in the last relic, stalling the game for 5-7 more minutes as result.

This is a very bad mannered and cocky move towards the teams with afks or either with "pve-players", that just take part in the event. (Which is of course totally fine).

I even spoke to the guys afterwards and of course they were some cocky 18 year old kids. Is this punishable or wont eso do anything against it anyways?

Am I missing something here? To me it sounds like the 4 AFK players would deserve a report well before the ones who were actually playing the game. If you are going to get upset over something so minuscule, at least direct your feelings toward the proper bunch.

Grizzbeorn

Right?
"cocky move towards the teams with afks..."

Why aren't the AFKers a problem for the OP?
Gimping the team by going AFK is incredibly bad manners, and a huge lack of respect for the remaining team members.
Why is there no blame cast their way, when it appears that the imbalance was actually caused by half the team going AFK?

And you aren't in a pre-made, so why on earth would you stay in that situation "over and over again" for 25 fights?

OBJnoob

LOL the people defending this behavior are so rude and entitled.

"If you can't take the relic from them you don't deserve the win." Yeah. Just remember you said that next time someone skunks your DM butt cuz you're nowhere near the flags in Domination LOL.

Not that deserving the win or not was even the topic of conversation.

Everybody grows up hearing about how you're supposed to be a good loser. Clearly more emphasis needs to be put on being a gracious winner.

Imagine... Being so angry at a game that you take it out on fellow players. Imagine... Being good at a video game and thinking you have the right to be a jerk.

But, as was said, being a jerk isn't against the rules. In fact it clearly has it's defenders. Yay 2023. Where you can be the biggest punk but as long as some other punk agrees with you it's a valid opinion.

Children come in all ages

ShadowPaladin

ROFLMAO

Are there really people here trying to turn the thing around and blame the players who noticed that A.) they could not win anymore and therefore B.) stopped foddering the 4 player team with easy kills and APs by staying in the starting zone and waiting for the game to end.?!

Really?!! Are you for real?!! Oo

[snip]
[edited for trolling]

spartaxoxo

This type of behavior is considered gameplay sabotage or griefing in many games. In PvP modes, you're supposed to be trying to win. I don't know how it's considered in ESO. The same is true of going afk but I don't think it would apply in this very particular situation since they were avoiding feeding.

All players should be actively in the process of trying to win in pvp content. Neither stalling nor afk'ing is trying to win. Play the objective and win games. That's supposed to be the goal.

jtm1018

Galeriano wrote: »

derkaiserliche wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kill them. It's a PvP mode. If they're holding your relic hostage and you want to win, kill them. If you can't kill them to take the relic, then you don't deserve the win. Holding the relic hostage is just as valid a strategy as running around in stealth spamming the pickup option until someone either makes a mistake or gets bored of interrupting.

You cant kill a 4 man premade pvp group, when you are in a 2 man team. Of course i dont "deserve" the win in a 2v2v4 team, its about the fact they they stall the game out for 7 minutes just to show off, how "easy" they won.

They didn't broke any rules. If You didn't like their behaviour You could just leave the game. Not everyone will be playing PvP the way You like them to play it.

Fun fact is that after 2-3 minutes You would kill relic carries pretty easily, since their healing recived and shield values at that point would be reduced to zero.

[snip] the game is capture the relic, that is how you play the game. Not hold the relic.
They should leave the game if they dont want to capture the relic.
[snip]
[edited for baiting & profanity bypass]

Braffin

It's not a violation of ToS, so reporting them probably won't do anything.

That said, it's definitely bad manners and a significant lack of sportsmanship these guys presented.

Best thing one can do in this case is to calm down, go afk till the match ended and move on.

spartaxoxo

You may not harass, threaten, intentionally humiliate, “stream snipe”, “name and shame”, engage in acts of “griefing”, or cause distress to another user, guest, or ZeniMax staff member/teams using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks (both text and voice chat), unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another user’s experience.

Would this be considered griefing? It's clearly intended to disrupt another user's experience by forcing them to drag out a match, delaying their ability to gain rewards and re-enter queue, and is not playing the game mode as intended. The goal of the game mode is to capture relics after all.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

spartaxoxo

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_MattFiror

I had to make a separate post because first one wouldn't let me ping.