Crown Crate Gifting Fraudulent Activity On Consoles

RedRoomGaming

That’s [snip], just locate the frauds on what ever the fraudulent behaviour was and ban them, people buy and sell gold for houses or upgrades etc.


You’ve literally shot yourself in the foot because nobody is going to buy these crowns anymore and you’ve screwed over most of your player base that can’t buy crowns except for the gold they make in game.

Can someone explain to me what this”fraudulent” behaviour was

[edited for profanity bypass]

sarahthes

RedRoomGaming wrote: »

That’s [snip], just locate the frauds on what ever the fraudulent behaviour was and ban them, people buy and sell gold for houses or upgrades etc.

You’ve literally shot yourself in the foot because nobody is going to buy these crowns anymore and you’ve screwed over most of your player base that can’t buy crowns except for the gold they make in game.

Can someone explain to me what this”fraudulent” behaviour was

They won't tell us, but an educated guess would say it's either something to do with getting around geo blocking or somehow getting the crates for free (possibly an exploit that would let them gift the same crates to multiple people?).

[edited to remove quote]

DragonRacer

I think some people are missing some context here, unless I am misunderstanding something.

But they didn’t turn off ALL GIFTING. They only turned off gifting of Crown CRATES.

You can still buy/sell houses, mounts, etc. Just not the gamble box CRATES.

BlindingBright

I'm glad it's finally been confirmed. I've known this sort of fraud had to be going on(assuming there are multiple types sadly).

Laundering funds from stolen credit cards is outright fraud I could see happening, essentially using the MMO's grey market to wash funds... it's something done in a lot of MMO's. This will continue to be an issue as long as ZoS allows/encourages Crowns 4 Gold trades... something most ALL other MMO's don't allow for this very reason. Though even IF it was not allowed, it'd still happen... I don't know a single MMO that doesn't have a grey market of some kind.

Scammer with Burner account A with stolen credit card purchases Item for "Unsuspecting Victim/Buyer A", has the buyer send gold to Scammer Burner Account B(Making it slightly harder to track, but not impossible). Scammer Burner Account B can send gold off to another account, which can be then sold... on the grey market to other players, getting "clean" money in a clean account.

When a charge back happens, does ZoS remove item from the Unsuspecting Victim and ding their account? They did nothing wrong.... ZoS silently try to handle it

Crowns for gold makes ZoS a lot of extra cash... I don't purchase crowns, though I spend millions every week on the crown store via gold trades, which ultimately funnels up to ZoS.

So it's a double edged sword. Big profits, but also... big fraud potential. A lot of companies turn a blind eye to it- though with it being ZoS/Microsoft... and it probably becoming a huge issue... I'm guessing they had to step in after getting charge backs in mass. I doubt they will ever be able to tell us publicly the full story...

The other "problem" or "bug" of gifting from another region is compounded, and while not directly fraud really... is a thing, or least was. I think they're finding multiple compounding issues

markulrich1966

BlindingBright wrote: »

I'm glad it's finally been confirmed. I've known this sort of fraud had to be going on(assuming there are multiple types sadly).

Laundering funds from stolen credit cards is outright fraud I could see happening, essentially using the MMO's grey market to wash funds... it's something done in a lot of MMO's. This will continue to be an issue as long as ZoS allows/encourages Crowns 4 Gold trades... something most ALL other MMO's don't allow for this very reason. Though even IF it was not allowed, it'd still happen... I don't know a single MMO that doesn't have a grey market of some kind.

Scammer with Burner account A with stolen credit card purchases Item for "Unsuspecting Victim/Buyer A", has the buyer send gold to Scammer Burner Account B(Making it slightly harder to track, but not impossible). Scammer Burner Account B can send gold off to another account, which can be then sold... on the grey market to other players, getting "clean" money in a clean account.

When a charge back happens, does ZoS remove item from the Unsuspecting Victim and ding their account? They did nothing wrong.... ZoS silently try to handle it

Crowns for gold makes ZoS a lot of extra cash... I don't purchase crowns, though I spend millions every week on the crown store via gold trades, which ultimately funnels up to ZoS.

So it's a double edged sword. Big profits, but also... big fraud potential. A lot of companies turn a blind eye to it- though with it being ZoS/Microsoft... and it probably becoming a huge issue... I'm guessing they had to step in after getting charge backs in mass. I doubt they will ever be able to tell us publicly the full story...

The other "problem" or "bug" of gifting from another region is compounded, and while not directly fraud really... is a thing, or least was. I think they're finding multiple compounding issues

in that case they would have stopped gifting at all, but they just stopped it for crates. So it is a different issue.

BlindingBright

markulrich1966 wrote: »

BlindingBright wrote: »

I'm glad it's finally been confirmed. I've known this sort of fraud had to be going on(assuming there are multiple types sadly).

Laundering funds from stolen credit cards is outright fraud I could see happening, essentially using the MMO's grey market to wash funds... it's something done in a lot of MMO's. This will continue to be an issue as long as ZoS allows/encourages Crowns 4 Gold trades... something most ALL other MMO's don't allow for this very reason. Though even IF it was not allowed, it'd still happen... I don't know a single MMO that doesn't have a grey market of some kind.

Scammer with Burner account A with stolen credit card purchases Item for "Unsuspecting Victim/Buyer A", has the buyer send gold to Scammer Burner Account B(Making it slightly harder to track, but not impossible). Scammer Burner Account B can send gold off to another account, which can be then sold... on the grey market to other players, getting "clean" money in a clean account.

When a charge back happens, does ZoS remove item from the Unsuspecting Victim and ding their account? They did nothing wrong.... ZoS silently try to handle it

Crowns for gold makes ZoS a lot of extra cash... I don't purchase crowns, though I spend millions every week on the crown store via gold trades, which ultimately funnels up to ZoS.

So it's a double edged sword. Big profits, but also... big fraud potential. A lot of companies turn a blind eye to it- though with it being ZoS/Microsoft... and it probably becoming a huge issue... I'm guessing they had to step in after getting charge backs in mass. I doubt they will ever be able to tell us publicly the full story...

The other "problem" or "bug" of gifting from another region is compounded, and while not directly fraud really... is a thing, or least was. I think they're finding multiple compounding issues

in that case they would have stopped gifting at all, but they just stopped it for crates. So it is a different issue.

Eh, if you look on grey market sites you used to be able to get crates for a fraction of the cost. I'd suspect people were buying them in excess and may have had a higher amount of fraud associated with its purchases/charge backs, and disabling them on one platform initially just for crown crates on PC-NA could have been their way of AB testing. it's a calculated risk, they don't want to shut down the ability for sales to be made more than they have to.

I hope ZoS is able to be a bit more clear on this in the future.

The_one_i_seek

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

bobdrad wrote: »

I've always gifted crates to friends for Christmas presents. Now that's disabled? Great. This seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot by disabling a revenue stream.

Unless you celebrate Christmas in July, ZOS still has 6 months to hopefully figure out a solution in time for you to gift crates.

If you do celebrate Christmas in July-- well, maybe next year.

@SeaGtGruff you know how long ago this isssue happened, dont you?

SeaGtGruff

The_one_i_seek wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

bobdrad wrote: »

I've always gifted crates to friends for Christmas presents. Now that's disabled? Great. This seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot by disabling a revenue stream.

Unless you celebrate Christmas in July, ZOS still has 6 months to hopefully figure out a solution in time for you to gift crates.

If you do celebrate Christmas in July-- well, maybe next year.

@SeaGtGruff you know how long ago this isssue happened, dont you?

Actually, no I don't. But even if it's been going on (on the PC servers) since before last Christmas-in-December, there's still 6 5 months for "maybe next year" to come true.

Edit: Obviously, I don't know how to subtract 7 from 12.

Darzaka

@ZOS_Kevin

Are you going to bring back the crates people missed due to this bug? A simple yes or no would suffice.

rottenlittlecreature

@ZOS_Kevin [snip] Will y'all be re-running the missed crates promptly(not next year sometime) once the fix is in place? [snip]

[edited for bashing]

SimonThesis

alternatelder wrote: »

Why in the world would there be compensation for this? It's not an essential service. It is not preventing you from playing the game.

It is a service we used to have and now do not. Essential or not is in the eye of the beholder plenty of people only play the game for crown store and crown crate shiny items. Not having a service we used to have deserves compensation otherwise people can talk with our wallets and sub to a different game.

Major_Soulless

I thought this was to do with the growth in crown scammers but its clearly not that lol. it does seem as others have said its a way for eso to cover themselves legally regarding countries like Belgium who block loot boxes.

its a smart legal move to make in theory but lets see what the execution ends up being

Aka_

MachineGod wrote: »

If this is down to "Fraudulent" behavior, why isn't all gifitng disabled?

Money. Can't lose out nearly as much on single items versus things you need to buy in bulk to get what you want... Just a guessz though.

Anne13

The amount of money they will lose from a business perspective would be huge. Crown crates and gifting them is one of the biggest revenue for them. There's many who wouldn't and can't purchase their own crates to get items they want. Massive loss.

TheElderScrollsGod

In realms where digital pixels fly,
There echoes a somber, collective sigh,
Crown Crate gifts they forbade,
In the ether's vast arcade,
A lament for a joy that's passed us by.

Fraudulent deeds darken the day,
On platforms where gamers come to play,
From PC to console's realm,
Under suspicion's whelming helm,
Deception's shadow leads us astray.

For integrity, they've drawn a line,
In this world where fantasy and truth intertwine,
We shared in frustration, felt inconvenience,
In hope of restoring lost lenience,
The virtual stage where our lives intertwine.

Promises from a digital ghost,
Of remedies posted on a post,
Yet for many, the hurt is real,
In hearts that break, in spirits that reel,
In a world where community matters most.

A temporary fix, they'll soon unmask,
For those who in their patience bask,
From realms of North America, to EU,
To console players who share the same view,
In the resilience of this daunting task.

The quest of truth is oft laced with sorrow,
As we yearn for the joy of tomorrow,
In games we play, in lives we live,
In the love we share, in the gifts we give,
In hope of a dawn free of shadow.

So here we stand, gamers all,
Underneath the sky of protocol,
Fraud's bitter sting has touched our land,
Yet, together, united, we shall withstand,
In the epic saga of our digital hall.

jbrianj

MachineGod wrote: »

If this is down to "Fraudulent" behavior, why isn't all gifitng disabled?

People use the gifting method very often to get themselves in-game gold, which makes ZOS money and is mostly harmless. If ZOS sees fraudulent behavior

spartaxoxo wrote: »

JavaRen wrote: »

I have suspected all along that the fraud was a method for players living in areas that prohibit crates (under gambling laws) to obtain them, not fixing that would be a huge legal liability and PR mess for ZOS. What other distinction is there between crates and other parts of the crown store?

Ohhh. Interesting theory. That could possibly be it!

I wish they'd tell us something now that it's disabled on all platforms. I understand they cannot tell us the methods people were using. But, it would be nice to get an idea of why this is necessary in the first place. Even if they can't be as specific as your theory, something along the lines of "people were able to get crates they shouldn't have" or something would be nice. Just to put minds at ease that other transactions are safe.

If this was the case, then it's not even near fraudulent behavior. Fraud means gaining a profit from doing prohibited or illegal things. If it's just to get around gambling laws, it has nothing to with gaining a profit, because you're still spending money to obtain them.

RedRoomGaming

[snip]

I for one helped a lot of people out with the necron 25 crate drop right before they had a sale haha. Got £300 worth then they have a sale I felt like a turd but still people got their items because they can’t afford it irl. This fraudulent behaviour ruins it for people who can’t afford it. It’s [snip]. But zos gotta do what they gotta do.

[snip]

[edited to remove quote and profanity bypass]

spartaxoxo

jbrianj wrote: »

If it's just to get around gambling laws, it has nothing to with gaining a profit, because you're still spending money to obtain them.

It's unlawful gains, not just profit, fyi.

Aleris

Any news ? It’s 13th today ..

Maitsukas

Aleris wrote: »

Any news ? It’s 13th today ..

People are waking up in the U.S. East Coast, give it time.

CeicaMaster

Are we still getting the fix today?

ZOS_Lunar

Hello!

After some review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the community rules we have in place. As such, we've removed some posts for off topic posting and conspiracy theories. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi All, the Temporary Solution for the Crown Crate Gifting available to read now. You can find the guidelines here. The website to start gifting will be available shortly. Our team is making sure everything has a green light.

Wuduwasa13

Can you also allow us to gift with gems & endeavours? It makes no difference to your business whether or not we use such for our person or another.

CMz

@ZOS_Kevin - this is not working as intended - using the temp system as instructed to gift crates to friends it generating an bot response about TOS and trading crowns for gold in game - a complete and total miss between the new program and the bots screening our requests. All this is doing is just making everyone more frustrated and angry instead of the intended resolution for gifting.

Better to just stop this before it just adds more fuel to the fire. Thank you for trying!!

TaSheen

CMz wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin - this is not working as intended - using the temp system as instructed to gift crates to friends it generating an bot response about TOS and trading crowns for gold in game - a complete and total miss between the new program and the bots screening our requests. All this is doing is just making everyone more frustrated and angry instead of the intended resolution for gifting.

Better to just stop this before it just adds more fuel to the fire. Thank you for trying!!

It seems to me that Kevin should have designated some CS reps by name (even if name changed to something else for this particular issue) to handle this personally.

Allowing the bot to interrupt might not be something that can be specifically "untargeted" - some systems like this are not able to be micro-managed. So real persons might be the way to get around it. That would mean new "aliases", and temp throwaway contact points....

CMz

I have an update and it may be good news for all of us legitimately trying to gift crown crates - I had sent in an appeal for the initial TOS Violation rejection of my crate gift request and after review by live team members, it was approved. It leads me to believe the initial rejection was automated and probably surprised the customer service team as much as it surprised those of us receiving it. If you have received the initial rejection note and still want to gift crates then complete the appeal process. it looks like they are working through the appeals manually.

Thank you @ZOS_Kevin and the team!

Arunei

TaSheen wrote: »

CMz wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin - this is not working as intended - using the temp system as instructed to gift crates to friends it generating an bot response about TOS and trading crowns for gold in game - a complete and total miss between the new program and the bots screening our requests. All this is doing is just making everyone more frustrated and angry instead of the intended resolution for gifting.

Better to just stop this before it just adds more fuel to the fire. Thank you for trying!!

It seems to me that Kevin should have designated some CS reps by name (even if name changed to something else for this particular issue) to handle this personally.

Allowing the bot to interrupt might not be something that can be specifically "untargeted" - some systems like this are not able to be micro-managed. So real persons might be the way to get around it. That would mean new "aliases", and temp throwaway contact points....

Kevin is just a Community Manager, he'd have no authority on anything like that.

huntgod_ESO

Looking at the calendar...guess that didn't work.