Arcanist is hot garbage in Cyrodill
Class is fun in PvE and small scale pvp, but is not even viable in Cyrodill
1) Beam does not even register damage at all, due to desync, even on stun locked targets or straight into a zerg. Zero damage is recorded.
2) None of the class skills can be used from the top of the keep to the bottom
3) Mobility skills are glitched to hell and do not work on the terrain in Cyrodill
4) The class has zero burst. Any outside heal and you are useless.
5) Your ultimate can be walked away from. You drop it and you just look like a fool
I mainly play small scale pvp, but even there Arcanist are in a somewhat rough spot there, but they are down right useless in Cyrodill. Class is completely negated by walking away from it. Its that bad. You don't even need movement speed to disengage.
Like this an actual issue with the class, it needs fixing fast. Console players are going to be arriving to the same conclusion shortly here.
Edited by ZOS_Hadeostry on June 24, 2023 3:22AM 1) Beam does not even register damage at all, due to desync, even on stun locked targets or straight into a zerg. Zero damage is recorded.
2) None of the class skills can be used from the top of the keep to the bottom
3) Mobility skills are glitched to hell and do not work on the terrain in Cyrodill
4) The class has zero burst. Any outside heal and you are useless.
5) Your ultimate can be walked away from. You drop it and you just look like a fool
I mainly play small scale pvp, but even there Arcanist are in a somewhat rough spot there, but they are down right useless in Cyrodill. Class is completely negated by walking away from it. Its that bad. You don't even need movement speed to disengage.
Like this an actual issue with the class, it needs fixing fast. Console players are going to be arriving to the same conclusion shortly here.
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Class might as well be an NPC in Cyrodill, so players can proc Tri-focus off us. Because thats only way an Arcanist is going to do damage in Cyrodill.1
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dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 25, 2023 4:20PM4 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HidesInPlainSight wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
At least they posted about it. Idk what they are sweeping under the rug, they answered the question, addressed why it took so long to respond, apologized and said they’d watch how the crux situation, which they most likely will.
Now whether after evaluating the crux situation and how people use the class from now on means they actually change it for the better after it debatable.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 25, 2023 4:22PM6 -
OtarTheMad wrote: »HidesInPlainSight wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
At least they posted about it. Idk what they are sweeping under the rug, they answered the question, addressed why it took so long to respond, apologized and said they’d watch how the crux situation, which they most likely will.
Now whether after evaluating the crux situation and how people use the class from now on means they actually change it for the better after it debatable.
My dude, everything about that post was textbook PR handling. [snip]
By the time Monday rolls around, the majority of the community will have moved on. There is less chance of negative press being released about it over the weekend. Everything about how this change was handled, was calculated. The entire issue with players getting motion sickness was well known in the PTR. The devs knew it was going to be an issue at release and had the solution already in the works before console went live. Certification on consoles takes about 2 weeks. ZoS dropped the patch on PC a day before console went live. Console went live with a day one patch for the Crux. It was all calculated and planned out.
It is bait and switch. They sold copies of a Chapter with the major selling point being the Arcanist class, and the class design being a builder and spender with permanent Crux's, to be spent at the players leisure. Two weeks later they completely change the class identity and design, which was a major selling point. Everything down to response from Gina, went through their legal process, for liability .
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 25, 2023 4:24PM19 -
Belegnole✭✭✭✭✭HidesInPlainSight wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »HidesInPlainSight wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
At least they posted about it. Idk what they are sweeping under the rug, they answered the question, addressed why it took so long to respond, apologized and said they’d watch how the crux situation, which they most likely will.
Now whether after evaluating the crux situation and how people use the class from now on means they actually change it for the better after it debatable.
My dude, everything about that post was textbook PR handling. [snip]
By the time Monday rolls around, the majority of the community will have moved on. There is less chance of negative press being released about it over the weekend. Everything about how this change was handled, was calculated. The entire issue with players getting motion sickness was well known in the PTR. The devs knew it was going to be an issue at release and had the solution already in the works before console went live. Certification on consoles takes about 2 weeks. ZoS dropped the patch on PC a day before console went live. Console went live with a day one patch for the Crux. It was all calculated and planned out.
It is bait and switch. They sold copies of a Chapter with the major selling point being the Arcanist class, and the class design being a builder and spender with permanent Crux's, to be spent at the players leisure. Two weeks later they completely change the class identity and design, which was a major selling point. Everything down to response from Gina, went through their legal process, for liability .
She obviously didn't write it. It is typical upper management corp speak.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 25, 2023 4:26PM3 -
HidesInPlainSight wrote: »OtarTheMad wrote: »HidesInPlainSight wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
At least they posted about it. Idk what they are sweeping under the rug, they answered the question, addressed why it took so long to respond, apologized and said they’d watch how the crux situation, which they most likely will.
Now whether after evaluating the crux situation and how people use the class from now on means they actually change it for the better after it debatable.
My dude, everything about that post was textbook PR handling. [snip]
By the time Monday rolls around, the majority of the community will have moved on. There is less chance of negative press being released about it over the weekend. Everything about how this change was handled, was calculated. The entire issue with players getting motion sickness was well known in the PTR. The devs knew it was going to be an issue at release and had the solution already in the works before console went live. Certification on consoles takes about 2 weeks. ZoS dropped the patch on PC a day before console went live. Console went live with a day one patch for the Crux. It was all calculated and planned out.
It is bait and switch. They sold copies of a Chapter with the major selling point being the Arcanist class, and the class design being a builder and spender with permanent Crux's, to be spent at the players leisure. Two weeks later they completely change the class identity and design, which was a major selling point. Everything down to response from Gina, went through their legal process, for liability .
She obviously didn't write it. It is typical upper management corp speak.
For sure, everything about this situation is handing. Its all designed to placate the consumers emotions, illicit a desired result, and legally cover ZoS's ass. Its specifically taught in business school.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 25, 2023 4:26PM3 -
ZOS_HadeostrymodGreetings,
After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's about PvP combat.
Thank you for your understanding0 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strongly disagree. If built correctly to take advantage of Arcanist's several sources of CC the class is quite strong offensively, and I would go so far as to say overtuned defensively.6 -
Panderbander✭✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Strongly disagree. If built correctly to take advantage of Arcanist's several sources of CC the class is quite strong offensively, and I would go so far as to say overtuned defensively.
All pressure, no burst. The only time Arcanist feels threatening is when it's supporting someone that can burst... and then let's be honest, they'd probably be just fine without the Arcanist there.Leader of Lycan Syndicate, PC NA's tri-faction werewolf guild.~~~Played since the beta, got the monkey.~~~"The blood of the pack is now yours. They are your only family, your only allegiance!"2 -
acastanza_ESO wrote: »Strongly disagree. If built correctly to take advantage of Arcanist's several sources of CC the class is quite strong offensively, and I would go so far as to say overtuned defensively.
You mean the Charm that is so telegraphed that it can be blocked 100% of the time or pre-broken before the animation finishes, the pull after 6 seconds, the immobilize that will not land in Cyrodill lag and has a cast time that lags out 90% of the time?
In mirror matchups you basically never get CC'd because the class CC's are so easily countered.
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CGPsaint✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I created my Arcanist which I'm leveling up to 50 for the achievements and will then most likely delete or just use for storage."Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."0 -
jerj6925✭✭✭✭This is why no one should ever pre-order a game.
let sit out there for a few weeks and simmer be happy you didnt fall for another ZOS bait and switch. 9 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Well i am fighting some very strong arcanist in bgs today. They hurt are very tanky. It seems they fight different like other classes which is perfect. Necro was reskin of warden was not good it still isn't. But the CC of arcanist is too much, fighting them is 50% of time i spend keeping control over my character that should not be so much their root and cc that charm is soo strong if they had more burst they would be way too strong.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only3 -
Well i am fighting some very strong arcanist in bgs today. They hurt are very tanky. It seems they fight different like other classes which is perfect. Necro was reskin of warden was not good it still isn't. But the CC of arcanist is too much, fighting them is 50% of time i spend keeping control over my character that should not be so much their root and cc that charm is soo strong if they had more burst they would be way too strong.
Just block it.
they have the weakest cc in the game.1 -
here is a mirror matchup, watch how useless both our cc's are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5fbybhgbWs 1 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really like Arcanist in BGs. It’s currently my favorite class. I think it’s really strong. I stopped playing cyrodil over 5 years agoAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade1 -
sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »I really like Arcanist in BGs. It’s currently my favorite class. I think it’s really strong. I stopped playing cyrodil over 5 years ago
BGs are the one spot they have a decent kit for. But even BGs are lagging bad lately, and nothing is registering in there.
Arcanists meta can be transferred to any other class and it would still work, if not work better on the other class. All of their damage is procs, with their "burst" being the beam, which does not register in desync / lag. In fact running into mirror matchups or same proc setup on other classes, comes down to who got their first rotation of pressure off first. Everything with Arcanist relies on building and spending those Crux's. Well any Crux you build while on defense gets spent back on defense. So your stuck constantly trying to build Crux's, but by the time you are ready to use them, you have to spend them back on defense. Their stun, is blockable, and expensive, you waste so much resources on a stun that lands 1 out of 10 times, its best to not use until they are in execute range or you need to make distance and LoS.
Easiest way to defeat an Arcanist is out pressure them, and they can't do anything. Build 1 Crux from getting attacked, it takes 5 seconds to passively earn another, or you have to spend resources to generate more, which you then have to dump back into defense. You spend 4K stamina (assuming 7 piece medium passive) to build to 3 Crux, to dump into a shield at the cost of 4.5k magicka, which you then have to Vigor, and dodge out of the way. It is so expensive, and leaves you with no Crux's for an offense. The only way that this sustainable is with your damage coming from Master DW / Vateshran or some other proc set / Arena weapons. Its why every Arcnist is running some status effect proc build. In the lag the heal rom Rune of Freedom droppin below 50% health for the first time does not register with server. So if its laggy enough, you dont get your heal and it still consume the minor protection, meaning your have to recast.
BGs, you can hang back build your Crux, jump in, kill them all, and jump out. That works, thats where shine. But in every other pvp content, they are at significant disadvantage unless they enter the fight with 3 Crux up. Their healing after a failed gank with zero Crux up is so bad, that the best way to stabilize is out pressure the ganker. Meaning you are relying out dpsing a burst class with sustained damage, and hoping they stand their ground and fight. If they disengage, you get repeat this process with less resources, and the same *** healing of no Crux's.You try to LoS any other class with mobility, and all you are doing is wasting resources, because Arcanist has no mobility. Their class mobility skill does not work on uneven terrain, and is more likely to crash your client then actually cast.
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭well, that's weird - i'm kind of kicking butt in gray host with my now level 15 anarchists...granted they got good gear and a bunch of cp (as well as zos' combat scaling stuff) to help them compete...
honestly - it ain't the gear, it ain't the class, it ain't nothing but who's sweaty fingers are working the toon...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭well, that's weird - i'm kind of kicking butt in gray host with my now level 15 anarchists...granted they got good gear and a bunch of cp (as well as zos' combat scaling stuff) to help them compete...
honestly - it ain't the gear, it ain't the class, it ain't nothing but who's sweaty fingers are working the toon...
You're running around solo on a level 15 arcanist and destroying people are you? Or standing at the back and beaming?
The class is bad in Cyro. I'm losing fights that on any other class, I win.
Nothing to do with not knowing what skills to use either. I'm doing good combos, both healing and damage.
But there is a lack of both. For decent healing, you need to have 3 crux up, have that below 50 heal prof then use the shield heal. If you have no crux then good luck.
And for damage, there is no burst. An ult that can be moved out of easy (even when you line it up with a cc (if they don't just block it as it has a telegraph) because guess what, good players break them instantly. Don't have a good spammable to even get them to execute. And if I do, I use tentacle. Can ZOS check if the scaling actually works on this because I'm hitting 4ks out here on people with 20% health. Plus it's clunky and can't be roll cancelled.
Even beam is only good against players with not so good movement and if you have 3 crux. Problem is, I need crux to heal. Even then, it's so easy to avoid the beam. I just walk through you constantly... Or if you use the snare one, I bash you.
The crux mechanic is quite fun in PvE. Not so much in PvP. I think they need to rethink it entirely for Cyro.Edited by Brrrofski on June 25, 2023 7:51AM4 -
well, that's weird - i'm kind of kicking butt in gray host with my now level 15 anarchists...granted they got good gear and a bunch of cp (as well as zos' combat scaling stuff) to help them compete...
honestly - it ain't the gear, it ain't the class, it ain't nothing but who's sweaty fingers are working the toon...
At 15 you dont even have the passives to do damage, nor the skills to survive unlocked yet. Your stun is not unlocked. You have tentacles, disks, beam, and maybe shield by that point.
Even in golded out gear, at level 15 you are only killing potatos while hanging in the back of a group or other low level players.
I level all my toons in the sewers of IC, and have to fight for the xp loop the entire time, both from others trying to level and fully leveled / geared players. Arcanist did not have a viable earlier PvP kit without at least filling 1 and a half bars and grabbing multiple passives until around 20+ish levels, and a full rotation until 35ish to 40ish.
Here is some pvp from day 1 Necrom leveling on PC
https://youtu.be/QShwbE148KE 1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Just use weapon skills. The weapon skill lines have the answer to every classes problems.1
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CameraBeardThePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Just use weapon skills. The weapon skill lines have the answer to every classes problems.
The problem with running weapon skills on Arcanist is the entire kit of the Arcanist depends on having as many class skills as possible. 90% of their passives either only affect or directly depend on a class skill.
Edited by CameraBeardThePirate on June 25, 2023 8:03PM8 -
React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The survivability side of the class is disgustingly overtuned, and the damage side is flat out poorly designed.
Perpetuating the tank meta while giving us damage enjoyers nothing to enjoy. Definitely what the PVP side of the game needed!@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster5 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭listen man - it ain't like i'm out there 1 v X'ing folks on a level 15 toon - however, i sure as heck rez more folks than i myself need rezzing...
i use that cascading fortune to try to help keep allies upright, escalating runeblades to generate crux, pragmatic fatecarver for aoe damage, and impervious runeward for a shield...nothing fancy - health draught and tri-pot slotted, along with either witchmother's or dubious...
one uses resonating glyphic and the other the tide kings gaze...they look cool at least...
both have a weapon skill slotted (stam = SnB/Bow, mag = Destro/Resto)...
they just turned 15 so i need to set up a second bar on each...probably need to buy more skill points, i want to level them slowly and limit the XP they gain...one toon has about 1450 cp, they other around 1750...the zos combat scaling system helps a lot with survivability and sustain - A LOT...
the challenge - like it always is - is how do you get rid of that last 10 to 15% of someone's health bar...
i'm still needing another mara balm's piece on each before i send them back in to gray host - also gonna craft a set of hundings for the stam and julianos for the mag toon, last two pieces will go towards either penetration or damage...the campaign is just about to end and will let both of these toons open all rewards bags and end of campaign rewards until they hit level 50...i have 11 toons on one server and 8 on another, they all hit tier 3 each campaign...i should be good for gear as they level...
probably at about level 30 i'll add the fighter's guild skill line to my stam arcanist and soul magic for my mag arcanist...who knows, will probably get impatient and do it at level 25
by then all my gear will be purple and i should have my weapon/spell damage high enough to execute folks...then the fun really begins...
i tend to use siege, allies and the guards a lot anyways to help bring folks down...no doubt though even now at thgis low level - i love playing bait to draw in over-aggressive players...Edited by geonsocal on June 25, 2023 9:31PMPVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The survivability side of the class is disgustingly overtuned, and the damage side is flat out poorly designed.
Perpetuating the tank meta while giving us damage enjoyers nothing to enjoy. Definitely what the PVP side of the game needed!
Any time ZOS tries to something "unique" in terms of skill mechanics it fails pretty badly in PVP compared to point-blank AOE or targeted skills.
Sub-second cast times also have terrible luck in PVP, causing more misses that you would expect.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Just use weapon skills. The weapon skill lines have the answer to every classes problems.
The problem with running weapon skills on Arcanist is the entire kit of the Arcanist depends on having as many class skills as possible. 90% of their passives either only affect or directly depend on a class skill.
It's not that bad. You're probably only going to use at most 3 weapon skills. You still have lots of other slots.0 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HidesInPlainSight wrote: »dinokstrunz wrote: »Yeah it sucks bored with the new class and the super stale pvp meta already
Did you see ZoS's response to the Crux change? They finally post a response at 4:06pm on a Friday. [snip]
[edited for bashing]
@HidesInPlainSight where is it posted as I haven't seen it yet?0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Just use weapon skills. The weapon skill lines have the answer to every classes problems.
The problem with running weapon skills on Arcanist is the entire kit of the Arcanist depends on having as many class skills as possible. 90% of their passives either only affect or directly depend on a class skill.
It's not that bad. You're probably only going to use at most 3 weapon skills. You still have lots of other slots.
You need as many Tome skills as possible for the penetration. 991 pen per skill; that is huge. (soldier skills give you 129 regen per slotted skill, meh).
You need a healing skill on the bar with the shield to get the 10% cost/size buff.
The rest of the important passives are tied to having, consuming, or generating crux. That is actually pretty good, but since you lose crux after 30 seconds now, and only generate in combat....problematic.
Even necromancer leverages using weapon skills better than Arcanist.Edited by katorga on June 26, 2023 4:55PM1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Just use weapon skills. The weapon skill lines have the answer to every classes problems.
The problem with running weapon skills on Arcanist is the entire kit of the Arcanist depends on having as many class skills as possible. 90% of their passives either only affect or directly depend on a class skill.
It's not that bad. You're probably only going to use at most 3 weapon skills. You still have lots of other slots.
You need as many Tome skills as possible for the penetration. 991 pen per skill; that is huge. (soldier skills give you 129 regen per slotted skill, meh).
You need a healing skill on the bar with the shield to get the 10% cost/size buff.
The rest of the important passives are tied to having, consuming, or generating crux. That is actually pretty good, but since you lose crux after 30 seconds now, and only generate in combat....problematic.
Even necromancer leverages using weapon skills better than Arcanist.
Well of course I'm going to use sharpened trait. Every other class doesn't have pen passives at all and they get their pen some other way.
I'm planning on using Chakram shield of Destiny to help build Crux.
Recuperative treatise, Cruxweaver armour.
I wont use fatecarver or rune blades.
All Crux has to come from defensive skills.
My only spender is Tentacular dread, not the Flail morph.
I'll using Lethal arrow and poison injection with swamp raider and sheer Venom sets.
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