Delve/Public dungeon XP nerfed TOO hard...

Extremeties

Hey Zen,

Before the launch patch and through the beta events, xp in delves and public dungeons were decent enough that you had the capability to progress xp through hunting monsters in these. You guys nerfed xp so much that Im getting not even a quarter of what we used to get to the point that other then the quest, the 1 or 2 quests, these are pointless to go into now. Yes, theres items that drop off the named but having the ability to hunt for xp should be something thats an option instead of being forced to quest how you guys currently have.

Is anyone else a little bugged by how much they nerfed xp in delves and public dungeons?

Great example - Toothmaul Gully - Mobs were giving around 15 xp when an outside mob was giving 100+ In other words, why have you guys nerfed the capability to grind for levels for those of us who enjoy it sometimes instead of questing? This should be an option to those who enjoy this kind of gameplay. I enjoy questing as well but I have friends who like grinding and theyre being turned off since it is now extremely slow.

Gohlar

I didn't play beta, but the monsters in the 1st 3 dungeons are giving 1-3 exp each at level 14!

A normal monster outside gives nearly 100. It's got to be broken, I really hope they wouldn't do this on purpose.

If I can kill 5 weak monsters in 2 minutes and get as much exp as clearing an entire dungeon, something is very wrong.

Extremeties

Gohlar wrote: »

I didn't play beta, but the monsters in the 1st 3 dungeons are giving 1-3 exp each at level 14!

A normal monster outside gives nearly 100. It's got to be broken, I really hope they wouldn't do this on purpose.

If I can kill 5 weak monsters in 2 minutes and get as much exp as clearing an entire dungeon, something is very wrong.

I agree, something is very wrong with this.

scabrous_ftz

I look at the public dungeons as places to find Skyshards. The mobs are just in the way. I never even noticed the XP. But I do understand that some people like to grind. I guess your friends have to do that in the open world.

Nox_Aeterna

Welcome , to the "YOU FREAKING EXPLOITED!!!!!" effect.

So here is the deal.

The game got out , people went in the public dungs , used AoE builds to reach lvl 50 in less than a day by griding multiple mobs at once in their party.

The devs will probably rebalance it with time, but for now i would not keep my hopes up.

Extremeties

Then reduce xp by 50% to make up for that... But jesus, its practically 100% nerf. Its a joke now. They practically just made people not want to experience a lot of content they handcrafted. I know some of my friends are not happy with the massive nerf. Also, delves in Cyrodiil were nerfed. Their difficulties have been slashed in half and xp has been drastically reduced as well. Patch notes said "slightly reduced"... This has to be some bug. It has been drastically reduced.

Adicon

Reducing by 50% so they can hit level 50 in 2 days is not the solution. I like solution they came up with, now when I enter a public dungeon it isn't rammed full of people spamming AoE absolutely everywhere with everything dying in seconds. I went through... forget the name but it was in Auridon and partied with a random stranger at the entrance and we had a great time going through the dungeon without 100 others grinding levels all around us. We actually enjoyed the content! and I look forward to the next dungeon I crawl through.

Krohm

This really needs to be fixed, part of the appeal to grouping up and running dungeons is the increase to xp due to increased difficulty. All forms of leveling need to be viable and not just running quests.

Nox_Aeterna

Adicon wrote: »

Reducing by 50% so they can hit level 50 in 2 days is not the solution. I like solution they came up with, now when I enter a public dungeon it isn't rammed full of people spamming AoE absolutely everywhere with everything dying in seconds. I went through... forget the name but it was in Auridon and partied with a random stranger at the entrance and we had a great time going through the dungeon without 100 others grinding levels all around us. We actually enjoyed the content! and I look forward to the next dungeon I crawl through.

Krohm wrote: »

This really needs to be fixed, part of the appeal to grouping up and running dungeons is the increase to xp due to increased difficulty. All forms of leveling need to be viable and not just running quests.

I think both sides are not the right place.

If you want to lvl in group , fine , if you want to lvl solo , also fine.

The exp should be proportional , so that you can lvl in both ways without one being clearly the best choice and forcing people to lvl in a position they dont enjoy. Just good and equivalent paths to the same PvE end game.

Gohlar

Private 4 man dungeons are also giving no exp.

Could you imagine if they actually did this on purpose? I mean if they are really punishing players for working together in an mmo, that's completely insane. If people were leveling too fast doing something, bring that thing back in line with everything else. Removing exp from group activities in an mmo is one of the worst things they could possibly do.

Why should some simple fetch quest give more exp than an ENTIRE dungeon? This is so broken I don't even know where to begin...

This will cause some major problems for the game if it doesn't get fixed. People are going to get really bored once they realize that dungeons have been taken out of the mix.

Extremeties

Gohlar wrote: »

Private 4 man dungeons are also giving no exp.

Could you imagine if they actually did this on purpose? I mean if they are really punishing players for working together in an mmo, that's completely insane. If people were leveling too fast doing something, bring that thing back in line with everything else. Removing exp from group activities in an mmo is one of the worst things they could possibly do.

Why should some simple fetch quest give more exp than an ENTIRE dungeon? This is so broken I don't even know where to begin...

This will cause some major problems for the game if it doesn't get fixed. People are going to get really bored once they realize that dungeons have been taken out of the mix.

I agree with this... The public dungeons are more difficult then questing therefor the benefits should be greater, not significantly worse. That is the case here. You run a public dungeon where mobs are more difficult then all the stuff outside minus the zone bosses yet, you gain a fraction of xp. That isnt right either way you cut it.

As for those who hate seeing people aoeing down a dungeon, pick a different dungeon perhaps? There's people who do enjoy this kind of method to level up and Im one of them. Im not against questing as I enjoy it as well but having the option to grind only benefits the playerbase because it allows for more ways of progression. How it currently stands, its turned into another force quest your way to max level. Very linear path for a means of progressing. I love the game whole heartedly but I hope something is done about the xp in both public dungeons and 4 man instanced dungeons. The xp is 4 man instanced dungeons are even worse...yet they have a loading screen that says, taking on the 4 man instances will provide greater experience.

If Zen truly wants people to take longer to level then they need to re-think their xp curve because were currently seeing lvl 50's in 2 days of play already... I wish just for once there wasnt an MMO out where people hit max level in a couple days.. Man I miss those days of EQ where you actually had to put some effort into things. Not to say you dont here but 2 days and seeing 50s? Jesus.

Sangeet

It would be unfair to nerf the XP curve, once the first are lvl 50 already, then you would even more time sink to catch up. As this is a PVP oriented game, its worthwhile to be fast at the cap, to match up with the guys who spend all their time in the game.

reagen_lionel

Grinding monsters by fighting needs to still be a viable way to level up than just sticking to quests.

Dullemarc

Iam going into dungons, for enyoying the content, not to xp grind. So i relly do not care. But thats just me

gibson31b

just so you know the level 50's you are seeing in two days have cheating and missed the main concept of the game. They will be unorganized and inexperienced with there character. This MMO is alot different from many and makes you continue the quests in an organized fashion,

Attorneyatlawl

gibson31b wrote: »

just so you know the level 50's you are seeing in two days have cheating and missed the main concept of the game. They will be unorganized and inexperienced with there character. This MMO is alot different from many and makes you continue the quests in an organized fashion,

No, we didn't "cheat" to get to vet ranks and inside veteran faction content already. We just played efficiently . I'm also about the opposite of disorganized and inexperienced having been playing the game since July and being a high-end PVP'er (known as "Please Don't Nerf Me" on the closed testing, which was my DK ). People enjoy and play games differently from eachother, no need to fling insults around at people who don't share the same playstyle and enjoy the same pacing you personally do. And just so you know, yes, you have to do the main quests to get into the veteran faction content, so no, no one skipped anything or "missed the main concept of the game" . For me the main concept is to get to VR10 and pvp my heart out. For you it may be to take in the vistas and sunset. Neither one's wrong.

All nerfing the public dungeon XP did was lower the number of paths available to choose from to level, not slow down how fast you actually could do so. Before you start to come back and claim that "well if you didn't cheat, you're a no-lifer who got no sleep", I actually only have ~30 hours /played on my character. I slept, went out, and did plenty of real life things while leveling .

Attorneyatlawl

reagen_lionel wrote: »

Grinding monsters by fighting needs to still be a viable way to level up than just sticking to quests.

I don't see any reason for PVP to be so inefficient for leveling either... they claimed you'd be able to level viably in there, but it's dog slow even if the action's plentiful due to the extremely low kill XP in Cyrodiil for enemy players, and of course further worsening that is the spiky nature of PVP XP in any game due to winning/losing fights, finding action, etc.

xhrit

Krohm wrote: »

This really needs to be fixed, part of the appeal to grouping up and running dungeons is the increase to xp due to increased difficulty. All forms of leveling need to be viable and not just running quests.

No. Easymode afk dungeon grinding does not need to be a viable form of leveling. Nor does afk kill 20 player farming need to be a 'viable form of leveling'.

wounded_graywolf

What's sad is that things like XP curves and making a PvP quest daily (instead of repeatable) are the kinds of things that can be designed and explored on paper. They are *design* problems, not software bugs, and could have (and should have) been resolved/implemented months (if not a year or more) ago. You don't wait until the last few weeks of beta or early access to test a design.

Unfortunately, design bugs like these "seem" to be easy to fix (e.g. nerf XP or make a quest repeatable daily instead of constantly), but those are one-shot band-aids and don't truly address or answer questions such as "how fast do we want the average person to progress in levels?" and "how many paths for advancement do we want to offer?" and "should all paths of advancement offer identical rates of advancement?" etc.

Our highest level guild member has focused solely on questing (no crafting, no PvP and has not farmed dungeons). He is level 25 after 2 days. He says he thinks the key to his advancement was completing quests that were above his level -- he skipped the starter islands. He's also playing a Nightblade, which seems to be very survivable in solo PvE content. Also, you apparently get a lot of XP from opening chests -- since he's solo out in front of the main horde of people, he has a lot of chests to himself.

Some of us in guild chat were astonished at how around level 18, he advanced to level 22 in the same amount of time it took most of the rest of us to advance from level 11 or 12 to level 13 or 14. It's also possible the game has been designed to allow rapid advancement to 50 because at 50 you're only through 1/3 of the content. Perhaps the Vet ranks (50+ and 50++) are where things are supposed to be slower and more challenging? Plus you get to explore the other 2/3 of the content.

Extremeties

wounded_graywolf wrote: »

What's sad is that things like XP curves and making a PvP quest daily (instead of repeatable) are the kinds of things that can be designed and explored on paper. They are *design* problems, not software bugs, and could have (and should have) been resolved/implemented months (if not a year or more) ago. You don't wait until the last few weeks of beta or early access to test a design.

Unfortunately, design bugs like these "seem" to be easy to fix (i.e. nerf XP or make a quest repeatable daily instead of constantly), but those are one-shot band-aids and don't truly address or answer questions such as "how fast do we want the average person to progress in levels?" and "how many paths for advancement do we want to offer?" and "should all paths of advancement offer identical rates of advancement?" etc.

Our highest level guild member has focused solely on questing (no crafting, no PvP and has not farmed dungeons). He is level 25 after 2 days. He says he thinks the key to his advancement was completing quests that were above his level -- he skipped the starter islands. He's also playing a Nightblade, which seems to be very survivable in solo PvE content. Also, you apparently get a lot of XP from opening chests -- since he's solo out in front of the main horde of people, he has a lot of chests to himself.

Some of us in guild chat were astonished at how around level 18, he advanced to level 22 in the same amount of time it took most of the rest of us to advance from level 11 or 12 to level 13 or 14. It's also possible the game has been designed to allow rapid advancement to 50 because at 50 you're only through 1/3 of the content. Perhaps the Vet ranks (50+ and 50++) are where things are supposed to be slower and more challenging? Plus you get to explore the other 2/3 of the content.

Seeing as how they want us to see the entire world they have crafted by allowing us to go to the other Alliance zones, I think and from what I have heard and watched, the veteran zones or what weve come to know as 50+ and 50++ content is in fact tougher which I look forward to very much. I think 1-50 is supposed to be not too difficult but the challenge comes from the 10 veteran levels and the 15-17ish vet zones we will go through. As you said up above, once your 50 your only a small fraction of being done with areas and content. And this, Im extremely excited for.

yodoberman

I dont know why, maybe i missed some quests, maybe i killed to little, but iam a bit behind on the quest levels. Iam lvl18 and iam doing lvl19-20 quests. At this point its hard for me to kill (iam 100% healer spec). Would be nice if i could do some dungeon runs to catch up. At this point iam running after other players letting them do the work for me, getting less and less exp.

Why does everybody has to pay becouse there are people grinding dungeons?

snakekennyb14_ESO

I do dungeons for XP, why? because I like the group experience. As it stands now, I will only do each dungeon once until I hit level cap (and only for the exp from the quest) I enjoy questing as well, but generally speaking I find it is less fun because it is done SOLO. I Enjoy grouping to complete content. Its the entire reason I play MMO's over just going and playing skyrim again.

Mob exp is ridiculous.

Gohlar

snakekennyb14_ESO wrote: »

I do dungeons for XP, why? because I like the group experience. As it stands now, I will only do each dungeon once until I hit level cap (and only for the exp from the quest) I enjoy questing as well, but generally speaking I find it is less fun because it is done SOLO. I Enjoy grouping to complete content. Its the entire reason I play MMO's over just going and playing skyrim again.

Mob exp is ridiculous.

Agreed and I think it's crazy this even needed to be said!

Why are we explaining why people who want to play mmos like to group up? This is insanity!

Asawasa

no exp for killing monsters in a dungeon because the only reason we are there is to get the loot. you can delude yourselves into thinking you want exp from this but if that were the case you would take your little group outside and just farm an area full of mobs. group dungeons have always been about accomplishing an objective like killing a boss to get the treasure. i can't get that treasure so i group up with other people (sometimes whiny kids who cry about experience from trash mobs). now if you wanted some kind of experience reward from bosses sure why not but still its all about the loot. no one raids to level why should you expect to level by doing what is essentially a small form of raiding?

Gohlar

Asawasa wrote: »

no exp for killing monsters in a dungeon because the only reason we are there is to get the loot. you can delude yourselves into thinking you want exp from this but if that were the case you would take your little group outside and just farm an area full of mobs. group dungeons have always been about accomplishing an objective like killing a boss to get the treasure. i can't get that treasure so i group up with other people (sometimes whiny kids who cry about experience from trash mobs). now if you wanted some kind of experience reward from bosses sure why not but still its all about the loot. no one raids to level why should you expect to level by doing what is essentially a small form of raiding?

New to mmos? You must be so say something this silly. Usually mmos encourage group play, kind of the whole point in making a massively multiplayer online game. I like how anyone who doesn't play like you is "deluded" and "whiny kids", that was cute. Saying the game is "all about the loot" while leveling up is pretty funny too.

Brilliant feedback, thanks for the contribution.

xhrit wrote: »

No. Easymode afk dungeon grinding does not need to be a viable form of leveling. Nor does afk kill 20 player farming need to be a 'viable form of leveling'.

I like how you threw afk in there, like that makes sense. Considering what is going on in the game right now, it's also a little ironic.

Also, questing is hard? lol...

Asawasa

oh gohlar so i dont agree with your point of view that makes me "new to MMOs". i see so we should all drink the koolaid of everyone wants to level in group dungeons because that is the only way we can level up at all.

i'm not new to MMOs i've played my fair share and yes you are a whiny kid by making threads complaining about something that doesn't matter to a large majority of the people that play MMOs.

btw no one has really had to play your way of grouping to level since the days of EQ and DAOC. i prefer they keep it that way.

Gohlar

Asawasa wrote: »

oh gohlar so i dont agree with your point of view that makes me "new to MMOs".

No, saying dungeons are for quest completion makes you sound like you are new to mmos. They are a primary group activity usually.

The rest of your post is you grasping at straws. It's obviously nonsense, no point in picking it apart.

Let's hope they come to their sense before too much damage is done.

Gohlar

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

The exp should be proportional , so that you can lvl in both ways without one being clearly the best choice and forcing people to lvl in a position they dont enjoy. Just good and equivalent paths to the same PvE end game.

This is pretty much the right way to look at things. I think it reflects very badly on the community that this is even up for debate.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

I don't see any reason for PVP to be so inefficient for leveling either... they claimed you'd be able to level viably in there, but it's dog slow even if the action's plentiful due to the extremely low kill XP in Cyrodiil for enemy players

Also this.

Gohlar

Bump for one of the biggest problems in ESO. Poor group play.

Krohm

We won't get a answer any time soon, devs are too busy getting ready for the consol launch, they have our money already.

mark2472

Krohm wrote: »

We won't get a answer any time soon, devs are too busy getting ready for the consol launch, they have our money already.

Yea, but they should be concerned about keeping it... =p Keeping our sub, that is, so they continue to get our money.

I agree with Gohlar. Dungeons should also be a viable way to get experience, as should any other way of progression (PvP, questing, whatever).

I play a tank, which is pretty survivable but doesn't kill as fast solo so the questing is a bit slower than other classes. As a tank in most other MMOs, I level up much faster in group content than in solo content. In ESO, the group dungeon xp is so low that it's not really worth doing the dungeons again after you complete the quest in that dungeon. I've done all three of the first dungeons multiple times, however, to help out guildies, etc. But it would at least be nice if subsequent playthroughs gave decent xp.