Game needs Anti-Cheat

etchedpixels

Dren_Utogi wrote: »

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Is this really a thing? "in the other thread" is not very helpful...

if you scroll through the other actual script on github, it will make more sense. Every skill and bar swap automated using autohotkey

No anti-cheat can catch this by the way because you can program it into a $2 microcontroller emulating a keyboard and even set suitably randomizing delays to look human.

However ESO deals with this in its own way. It's not fortnite, all your skills and attacks have quite a long duration and in many cases a cooldown. In PvE a DPS using macros (and some do especially if disabled) isn't actually going to get any real advantage of a decent DPS not using one because they are grinding out a rotation pretty close to ideal timing anyway. You can bash the keys a hundred times a second and you'll do worse than the slow steady plod. Even the "fast" looking attacks are arranged to work this way - hence jabs and the arcanist runeblades do multiple attacks per press. Full on weaving is usually a mouse and key a second (bash is a bit faster).

In PvP macro users are even funnier because they start their epic 8 second gank sequence and half way through the opponent stuns them with a charge and whacks them with a wrecking blow or two whilst their macro is stuck plodding out 4 more completely pointless actions two of which will be greeted with "you can't do that when you are dead"

(and if you sound like a machine gun when playing you might want to get the combat metronome add on and chill)

Sluggy

React wrote: »

I get called a cheater or exploiter almost every single time I PVP. Very often the people making those accusations are the same people pressing one or two abilities every 10 seconds, holding block indefinitely while contributing nothing to a fight, or flat out completely avoiding fights in favor of simply sieging or following their faction to the next keep.

The "infinite sustain" comment is one I see often - when the reality is that it is essentially the easiest it has ever been to sustain at this point in time.

The other one I see is "you hit me with 10 abilities in one second, you're macroing/hacking!". I did actually get one of these players to explain to me what those 10 "abilities" were by showing me his CMX. Turned out those were 2 damage instances from a DW heavy, 2 damage instances from rending slashes, hemorrhaging, absorb stam glyph, sundered status proc, poison glyph, poisoned status proc, and a bash.

Combat has a lot of depth to it, and often uneducated or inexperienced players confuse mechanical skill with exploits or "cheats". These are the people that come to mind whenever I see a post like this.

A lot of the misunderstanding can be contributed to one simple fact: That it takes a finite amount of time for information to travel in the universe.

Most people look at their ping as an indication of how fast their connection to the server is but this is such a simplified measurement that it can be hardly used for anything other than a general sense of measurement on average. It simply is telling them the time it takes to hit the surface-level servers and bounce back. But in reality they can easily be one to two FULL SECONDS behind any given player in many circumstances.

The reality is that inputs are loosely verified on the client and then sent from the client to the server. That takes a finite amount of time and can involve all kinds of hardware and software along the way. When they reach the server they'll very likely get pushed through a software layer that redistributes and load balances which involves several more software stops and queues as well as an internal network before being sent to the actual hardware that will process them. They'll likely be queue up again, reorganized based on timestamps, and finally processed (the part where the actual 'game' happens so to speak). The results will be validated, corrected if needed (this can involve a whole lot of additional work and potential back-and-forth with clients), filter for relevant PoVs, and finally queued for re-distribution back to the clients that need to see the results. Then its back to the local network before being sent across the internet where zos no longer has any control and the data is at the mercy once again of the rest of the world. By the time this information actually reaches anyone it will obviously be out of date compared to what it was on the server and certainly a different view of what the originator of input would be seeing by an even greater time factor.

The long story made short is that there is no such thing as a "shared world" in online games. Everyone has their own private view of the world and very small bits of data occasionally try to sync up to some known point in the past. By its very nature this means most people will be seeing a skewed view that can't possible match what anyone else sees exactly. This is also where most of the edge cases lie in the logic which can potentially cause large-scale desyncing issues or even potential exploits.

To my knowledge the only portion that is still under enough control of the client to be exploited in most cases is positioning. This has to do with the nature of how ESO handles client-side prediction versus server-side authority. They obviously want to have as smooth of an experience as possible when players move around so this necessitates fudging the numbers sometimes. Potentially speed hacks and repositioning hacks are the most likely tools used by cheaters and if used sparingly and within certain parameters they wont be detected by the server since it by necessity must give some amount of leeway to account for all manner of issues that can occur even with legitimate clients when you introduce lag and client-side prediction of movement. There's really not much they can do about this unfortunately. But certainly the stuff you mentioned wouldn't fall into this category as it is very easy to validate that stuff every time on the server.

SeaGtGruff

Cast_El wrote: »

I won't say the name of the player but when he play with his sorc every crystal frag are instant. You can see him playing or ... in your death recap 3x4 instant frag with curse and mage wrath. I don't know about you guy's, but when I play with my sorc not every cast of Crystal are instant

I don't even have Crystal Fragments on my Sorc anymore, because back when we all had to do a forced respec after our characters got their Attribute Points, Skill Points, and Champion Points cleared and we needed to redistribute them all over again, I decided to go with the Stamina morph (Crystal Weapon), which turned out to be a lousy choice. I could always respec to change it back to Crystal Fragments-- and one day I'm sure I will-- but for the time being I don't feel a burning need to (read: I'm too lazy).

PS at @Sluggy-- Thank you for your post. A lot of people seem to think that the two-way data communications in the game should be 100% lag-free, when the truth is that a certain amount of lag is unavoidable regardless of how fast their computers and internet connections are.

TaSheen

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Cast_El wrote: »

I won't say the name of the player but when he play with his sorc every crystal frag are instant. You can see him playing or ... in your death recap 3x4 instant frag with curse and mage wrath. I don't know about you guy's, but when I play with my sorc not every cast of Crystal are instant

I don't even have Crystal Fragments on my Sorc anymore, because back when we all had to do a forced respec after our characters got their Attribute Points, Skill Points, and Champion Points cleared and we needed to redistribute them all over again, I decided to go with the Stamina morph (Crystal Weapon), which turned out to be a lousy choice. I could always respec to change it back to Crystal Fragments-- and one day I'm sure I will-- but for the time being I don't feel a burning need to (read: I'm too lazy).

Have to agree about Crystal Weapon. I don't even use it on my stam sorcs. Crystal Frags it is.

FantasticFreddie

Sluggy wrote: »

React wrote: »

I get called a cheater or exploiter almost every single time I PVP. Very often the people making those accusations are the same people pressing one or two abilities every 10 seconds, holding block indefinitely while contributing nothing to a fight, or flat out completely avoiding fights in favor of simply sieging or following their faction to the next keep.

The "infinite sustain" comment is one I see often - when the reality is that it is essentially the easiest it has ever been to sustain at this point in time.

The other one I see is "you hit me with 10 abilities in one second, you're macroing/hacking!". I did actually get one of these players to explain to me what those 10 "abilities" were by showing me his CMX. Turned out those were 2 damage instances from a DW heavy, 2 damage instances from rending slashes, hemorrhaging, absorb stam glyph, sundered status proc, poison glyph, poisoned status proc, and a bash.

Combat has a lot of depth to it, and often uneducated or inexperienced players confuse mechanical skill with exploits or "cheats". These are the people that come to mind whenever I see a post like this.

A lot of the misunderstanding can be contributed to one simple fact: That it takes a finite amount of time for information to travel in the universe.

Most people look at their ping as an indication of how fast their connection to the server is but this is such a simplified measurement that it can be hardly used for anything other than a general sense of measurement on average. It simply is telling them the time it takes to hit the surface-level servers and bounce back. But in reality they can easily be one to two FULL SECONDS behind any given player in many circumstances.

The reality is that inputs are loosely verified on the client and then sent from the client to the server. That takes a finite amount of time and can involve all kinds of hardware and software along the way. When they reach the server they'll very likely get pushed through a software layer that redistributes and load balances which involves several more software stops and queues as well as an internal network before being sent to the actual hardware that will process them. They'll likely be queue up again, reorganized based on timestamps, and finally processed (the part where the actual 'game' happens so to speak). The results will be validated, corrected if needed (this can involve a whole lot of additional work and potential back-and-forth with clients), filter for relevant PoVs, and finally queued for re-distribution back to the clients that need to see the results. Then its back to the local network before being sent across the internet where zos no longer has any control and the data is at the mercy once again of the rest of the world. By the time this information actually reaches anyone it will obviously be out of date compared to what it was on the server and certainly a different view of what the originator of input would be seeing by an even greater time factor.

The long story made short is that there is no such thing as a "shared world" in online games. Everyone has their own private view of the world and very small bits of data occasionally try to sync up to some known point in the past. By its very nature this means most people will be seeing a skewed view that can't possible match what anyone else sees exactly. This is also where most of the edge cases lie in the logic which can potentially cause large-scale desyncing issues or even potential exploits.

To my knowledge the only portion that is still under enough control of the client to be exploited in most cases is positioning. This has to do with the nature of how ESO handles client-side prediction versus server-side authority. They obviously want to have as smooth of an experience as possible when players move around so this necessitates fudging the numbers sometimes. Potentially speed hacks and repositioning hacks are the most likely tools used by cheaters and if used sparingly and within certain parameters they wont be detected by the server since it by necessity must give some amount of leeway to account for all manner of issues that can occur even with legitimate clients when you introduce lag and client-side prediction of movement. There's really not much they can do about this unfortunately. But certainly the stuff you mentioned wouldn't fall into this category as it is very easy to validate that stuff every time on the server.

I've gotten reported for cheating for a number of things, including but not limited to:

"Impossible" rezzes (literally just a friend hiding behind something)
Riding next to an enemy keep and getting teleported to the top of the wall (not a clue how)
"Speed hacking" (???? What does this even mean.)
Floating serenely to the other side of a broken bridge (lag?? A slow motion chain? Idk but it saved me from a watery grave)

Yes, cheating exist, and it shouldn't.

But I would bet money that 9 out of every 10 cases of reported cheating is either a better player, a weird glitch, or lag.

Zastrix

TBH IDC if ZoS does add an anti-cheat as I've never had experience with cheaters (bots yes)

But if they do implement it, I REALLY hope that they make it work with Linux because the game would then be unplayable for me. New world supports their Anti-Cheat on Linux whereas BDO does not.

Jamie_Aubrey

Cast_El wrote: »

I won't say the name of the player but when he play with his sorc every crystal frag are instant. You can see him playing or ... in your death recap 3x4 instant frag with curse and mage wrath. I don't know about you guy's, but when I play with my sorc not every cast of Crystal are instant

What about the ones that can Streak like 10 times in a row and they don't even cast Dark Deal to get back Magic, most I can do is 4-5 one after the other so how are they getting 10, even if you pop a magic pot it wouldn't be enough

Xandreia_

Jammy420 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Rezzing yourself in Cyrodiil seems to depend on how you died. For instance, I know that if you die from fall damage then you can rez yourself, although I don't know if your location (such as inside a keep) can override that. I assume this is overridden if you've taken any recent PvP-related damage, but I don't know if taking damage from NPCs counts.

Going through keep walls seems to be a bug related to gap closers.

In short, I don't think those two things are necessarily evidence of using any cheat programs, but that's not to say that people might not be using exploits.

I only know about the self-rez after fall damage because I accidentally rode my mount off a tall ledge in the no-CP campaign while trying to ride from Chorrol to Vlastarus on a map where my faction didn't have squat, and the lack of the CP perk that reduces fall damage was surprisingly painful.

On the other hand, IIRC dying in the lava around Chorrol will send you back to a wayshrine at your faction's base, which makes sense given that self-rezzing in a lava fissure that you can't climb out of wouldn't be very nice.

I have gotten people banned for doing that, and it was an option in cheat engine when I reported it way back, and there is a difference obviously between falling to your death, and rezzing mid battle after you died to multiple players. As for the keeps, I am talking about players who were outside the keep, then logged out, and then somehow logged back in and were in there. I have also seen people run around behind the gates of the scroll area, and they picked up the scroll while gates were closed, ignoring the instant death mechanic. As for the walls, there were no players around to gap close to, they went up and over the walls with a button click.

It is well documented there is loads of cheating in this game.

You can res people through walls

Xandreia_

The amount of times I've been accused of cheating in pvp just because people do not understand the game is insane. I don't cheat, would never cheat and I'd certainly never cheat on a game like eso, people don't like dying in a player vs player environment and that will always blow my mind, the report system in eso is so easily abused, I've seen people I know get banned for simply just playing the game. One person had emp and got mass reported for killing a group... AS EMP! if anything the report system needs a complete overhaul to stop people who don't understand the game from getting genuine players banned! I have no doubt there is a few cheaters but to accuse everyone who kills you of cheating is a little over the top.

Jammy420

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Rezzing yourself in Cyrodiil seems to depend on how you died. For instance, I know that if you die from fall damage then you can rez yourself, although I don't know if your location (such as inside a keep) can override that. I assume this is overridden if you've taken any recent PvP-related damage, but I don't know if taking damage from NPCs counts.

Going through keep walls seems to be a bug related to gap closers.

In short, I don't think those two things are necessarily evidence of using any cheat programs, but that's not to say that people might not be using exploits.

I only know about the self-rez after fall damage because I accidentally rode my mount off a tall ledge in the no-CP campaign while trying to ride from Chorrol to Vlastarus on a map where my faction didn't have squat, and the lack of the CP perk that reduces fall damage was surprisingly painful.

On the other hand, IIRC dying in the lava around Chorrol will send you back to a wayshrine at your faction's base, which makes sense given that self-rezzing in a lava fissure that you can't climb out of wouldn't be very nice.

I have gotten people banned for doing that, and it was an option in cheat engine when I reported it way back, and there is a difference obviously between falling to your death, and rezzing mid battle after you died to multiple players. As for the keeps, I am talking about players who were outside the keep, then logged out, and then somehow logged back in and were in there. I have also seen people run around behind the gates of the scroll area, and they picked up the scroll while gates were closed, ignoring the instant death mechanic. As for the walls, there were no players around to gap close to, they went up and over the walls with a button click.

It is well documented there is loads of cheating in this game.

You can res people through walls

You cant rez someone at the top of a tower inside the keep while no one is there. I Was standing on top of them, so dont try to justify this. They even whispered me after to laugh at me proving they could do it. So seriously, do not treat me like some person that doesnt understand the game. Its insulting.

Jammy420

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

React wrote: »

I get called a cheater or exploiter almost every single time I PVP. Very often the people making those accusations are the same people pressing one or two abilities every 10 seconds, holding block indefinitely while contributing nothing to a fight, or flat out completely avoiding fights in favor of simply sieging or following their faction to the next keep.

The "infinite sustain" comment is one I see often - when the reality is that it is essentially the easiest it has ever been to sustain at this point in time.

The other one I see is "you hit me with 10 abilities in one second, you're macroing/hacking!". I did actually get one of these players to explain to me what those 10 "abilities" were by showing me his CMX. Turned out those were 2 damage instances from a DW heavy, 2 damage instances from rending slashes, hemorrhaging, absorb stam glyph, sundered status proc, poison glyph, poisoned status proc, and a bash.

Combat has a lot of depth to it, and often uneducated or inexperienced players confuse mechanical skill with exploits or "cheats". These are the people that come to mind whenever I see a post like this.

A lot of the misunderstanding can be contributed to one simple fact: That it takes a finite amount of time for information to travel in the universe.

Most people look at their ping as an indication of how fast their connection to the server is but this is such a simplified measurement that it can be hardly used for anything other than a general sense of measurement on average. It simply is telling them the time it takes to hit the surface-level servers and bounce back. But in reality they can easily be one to two FULL SECONDS behind any given player in many circumstances.

The reality is that inputs are loosely verified on the client and then sent from the client to the server. That takes a finite amount of time and can involve all kinds of hardware and software along the way. When they reach the server they'll very likely get pushed through a software layer that redistributes and load balances which involves several more software stops and queues as well as an internal network before being sent to the actual hardware that will process them. They'll likely be queue up again, reorganized based on timestamps, and finally processed (the part where the actual 'game' happens so to speak). The results will be validated, corrected if needed (this can involve a whole lot of additional work and potential back-and-forth with clients), filter for relevant PoVs, and finally queued for re-distribution back to the clients that need to see the results. Then its back to the local network before being sent across the internet where zos no longer has any control and the data is at the mercy once again of the rest of the world. By the time this information actually reaches anyone it will obviously be out of date compared to what it was on the server and certainly a different view of what the originator of input would be seeing by an even greater time factor.

The long story made short is that there is no such thing as a "shared world" in online games. Everyone has their own private view of the world and very small bits of data occasionally try to sync up to some known point in the past. By its very nature this means most people will be seeing a skewed view that can't possible match what anyone else sees exactly. This is also where most of the edge cases lie in the logic which can potentially cause large-scale desyncing issues or even potential exploits.

To my knowledge the only portion that is still under enough control of the client to be exploited in most cases is positioning. This has to do with the nature of how ESO handles client-side prediction versus server-side authority. They obviously want to have as smooth of an experience as possible when players move around so this necessitates fudging the numbers sometimes. Potentially speed hacks and repositioning hacks are the most likely tools used by cheaters and if used sparingly and within certain parameters they wont be detected by the server since it by necessity must give some amount of leeway to account for all manner of issues that can occur even with legitimate clients when you introduce lag and client-side prediction of movement. There's really not much they can do about this unfortunately. But certainly the stuff you mentioned wouldn't fall into this category as it is very easy to validate that stuff every time on the server.

I've gotten reported for cheating for a number of things, including but not limited to:

"Impossible" rezzes (literally just a friend hiding behind something)
Riding next to an enemy keep and getting teleported to the top of the wall (not a clue how)
"Speed hacking" (???? What does this even mean.)
Floating serenely to the other side of a broken bridge (lag?? A slow motion chain? Idk but it saved me from a watery grave)

Yes, cheating exist, and it shouldn't.

But I would bet money that 9 out of every 10 cases of reported cheating is either a better player, a weird glitch, or lag.

Ah yes, you just magically floated over areas you cant port over and through walls, ok. So those people purposefully doing it to troll people, it was all an accident, ok.

Dr_Con

I hope their logs are robust enough to retroactively ban scripters/cheaters.

It would be nice for them to publish names of players banned for cheating as well.

ForzaRammer

Seen only a handful of blatant ones ever

Turtle_Bot

Cast_El wrote: »

I won't say the name of the player but when he play with his sorc every crystal frag are instant. You can see him playing or ... in your death recap 3x4 instant frag with curse and mage wrath. I don't know about you guy's, but when I play with my sorc not every cast of Crystal are instant

they must be getting my frag proc rates, I swear mine has been as low as 20% most of the time instead of the stated 33% on the tooltip

Turtle_Bot

As for the scrolls, I've never seen anyone pick it up after the gate was closed (not saying it hasn't happened, just that I haven't seen it).

But there used to be a legitimate way to get the scroll out of the gates after they were closed as long as the scroll was picked up while the gates were open. I recall talk about it getting fixed, but I've never seen a direct response from zos stating as much.

FantasticFreddie

Jammy420 wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Sluggy wrote: »

React wrote: »

I get called a cheater or exploiter almost every single time I PVP. Very often the people making those accusations are the same people pressing one or two abilities every 10 seconds, holding block indefinitely while contributing nothing to a fight, or flat out completely avoiding fights in favor of simply sieging or following their faction to the next keep.

The "infinite sustain" comment is one I see often - when the reality is that it is essentially the easiest it has ever been to sustain at this point in time.

The other one I see is "you hit me with 10 abilities in one second, you're macroing/hacking!". I did actually get one of these players to explain to me what those 10 "abilities" were by showing me his CMX. Turned out those were 2 damage instances from a DW heavy, 2 damage instances from rending slashes, hemorrhaging, absorb stam glyph, sundered status proc, poison glyph, poisoned status proc, and a bash.

Combat has a lot of depth to it, and often uneducated or inexperienced players confuse mechanical skill with exploits or "cheats". These are the people that come to mind whenever I see a post like this.

A lot of the misunderstanding can be contributed to one simple fact: That it takes a finite amount of time for information to travel in the universe.

Most people look at their ping as an indication of how fast their connection to the server is but this is such a simplified measurement that it can be hardly used for anything other than a general sense of measurement on average. It simply is telling them the time it takes to hit the surface-level servers and bounce back. But in reality they can easily be one to two FULL SECONDS behind any given player in many circumstances.

The reality is that inputs are loosely verified on the client and then sent from the client to the server. That takes a finite amount of time and can involve all kinds of hardware and software along the way. When they reach the server they'll very likely get pushed through a software layer that redistributes and load balances which involves several more software stops and queues as well as an internal network before being sent to the actual hardware that will process them. They'll likely be queue up again, reorganized based on timestamps, and finally processed (the part where the actual 'game' happens so to speak). The results will be validated, corrected if needed (this can involve a whole lot of additional work and potential back-and-forth with clients), filter for relevant PoVs, and finally queued for re-distribution back to the clients that need to see the results. Then its back to the local network before being sent across the internet where zos no longer has any control and the data is at the mercy once again of the rest of the world. By the time this information actually reaches anyone it will obviously be out of date compared to what it was on the server and certainly a different view of what the originator of input would be seeing by an even greater time factor.

The long story made short is that there is no such thing as a "shared world" in online games. Everyone has their own private view of the world and very small bits of data occasionally try to sync up to some known point in the past. By its very nature this means most people will be seeing a skewed view that can't possible match what anyone else sees exactly. This is also where most of the edge cases lie in the logic which can potentially cause large-scale desyncing issues or even potential exploits.

To my knowledge the only portion that is still under enough control of the client to be exploited in most cases is positioning. This has to do with the nature of how ESO handles client-side prediction versus server-side authority. They obviously want to have as smooth of an experience as possible when players move around so this necessitates fudging the numbers sometimes. Potentially speed hacks and repositioning hacks are the most likely tools used by cheaters and if used sparingly and within certain parameters they wont be detected by the server since it by necessity must give some amount of leeway to account for all manner of issues that can occur even with legitimate clients when you introduce lag and client-side prediction of movement. There's really not much they can do about this unfortunately. But certainly the stuff you mentioned wouldn't fall into this category as it is very easy to validate that stuff every time on the server.

I've gotten reported for cheating for a number of things, including but not limited to:

"Impossible" rezzes (literally just a friend hiding behind something)
Riding next to an enemy keep and getting teleported to the top of the wall (not a clue how)
"Speed hacking" (???? What does this even mean.)
Floating serenely to the other side of a broken bridge (lag?? A slow motion chain? Idk but it saved me from a watery grave)

Yes, cheating exist, and it shouldn't.

But I would bet money that 9 out of every 10 cases of reported cheating is either a better player, a weird glitch, or lag.

Ah yes, you just magically floated over areas you cant port over and through walls, ok. So those people purposefully doing it to troll people, it was all an accident, ok.

The wall one happened to me twice, actually, but the first time it happened there was no one to report me.
The bridge one, the bridge collapsed in slow motion and everyone else plummeted to their death, but I floated serenely through the air and landed safely on the other side and then kept going. I have no explanation for it, can't imagine how it happened, but I got "reported for hacking" nonetheless.
I play this game at an incredibly casual level, and I'm hopeless with computers. Even if I WANTED to cheat, which I don't, I wouldn't know the first place to start, and yet! I've gotten reported at least half a dozen times that I know of, for ridiculous things, some that were entirely out of my control.
Also, winding you up via whispers isn't proof of cheating. I'm under no obligation to tell the truth to an enemy player, and if I think it will frustrate, distract, or waste their time, I will absolutely 100000% lie.

Vulkunne

Jammy420 wrote: »

N3CR01 wrote: »

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Is this really a thing? "in the other thread" is not very helpful...

I doubt it.
They moved stuff like health and resources to their end years ago as peoples were using third party programs to give themselves higher health pools or whatever.

Without a dedicated cheat detector this can easily be circumvented by someone who really wants to. I have seen people rez themselves lately, Spawn inside enemy keeps without it being UA prior, and I have seen players once again go through walls.

They can also glitch thru Keep doors under certain conditions. Like say I'm under attack and I manage to actually get the door to allow me thru sometimes the attacker can get pulled in after I arrive inside the keep.

Most the time the doors don't work anyways lol.

Vulkunne

tincanman wrote: »

Most of the calcs are server based now.

There are also a variety of automatic cheat detections in operation, one of which blew up spectacularly in the past and mistakenly banned a bunch of traders as gold sellers.

There's also a bunch of glitches and edge cases in game - for example if <50th lvl and you gain a level at the same time as killed (pvp), you will auto-revive on the spot with full resources.

If you really are sure you see someone cheating - and I mean really sure and not just ticked off because your ping failed or you got outplayed - then report it.

Anything else is overkill.

The rez when reaching a level has been around for very long time. I thought it was working as intended lol. After all, you can't level if yur dead.

MetallicMonk

Personally any time I've been killed by another player it was definitely not legit.

FantasticFreddie

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Personally any time I've been killed by another player it was definitely not legit.

Mmhmm. Hacking

tincanman

.

Vulkunne wrote: »

tincanman wrote: »

Most of the calcs are server based now.

There are also a variety of automatic cheat detections in operation, one of which blew up spectacularly in the past and mistakenly banned a bunch of traders as gold sellers.

There's also a bunch of glitches and edge cases in game - for example if <50th lvl and you gain a level at the same time as killed (pvp), you will auto-revive on the spot with full resources.

If you really are sure you see someone cheating - and I mean really sure and not just ticked off because your ping failed or you got outplayed - then report it.

Anything else is overkill.

The rez when reaching a level has been around for very long time. I thought it was iworking as intended lol. After all, you can't level if yur dead.

Yes, as stated, it's an 'edge case' - the probability of you levelling mid-combat/post-death[pvp] is, I imagine, pretty low(I've heard of it only a handful of times).

But some posters here would see that 'feature' during play and assume the rezzed-via-levelling player as some sort of cheat and possibly report an entirely innocent player for something pretty much beyond their control.

It's the point of mentioning such edge cases and glitches etc - to illustrate that there are perfectly innocent players (and situations) who or which may be miscalled or falsely reported for simply playing the game honestly.

tincanman

Overall, I suspect much of the reporting of others in pvp is mostly driven by players who simply don't understand why their character was killed and wrongly assume their antagonist was cheating.

Always amusing to see my death recap with 3+ d-swings land from the same opponent in <1s - but all it illustrates is two things: firstly my ping sucked comparatively at point of engagement and secondly the in-game death recap is perhaps not the best source of information for post-fight analsyis.

Lebkuchen

Jammy420 wrote: »

You cant rez someone at the top of a tower inside the keep while no one is there. I Was standing on top of them, so dont try to justify this. They even whispered me after to laugh at me proving they could do it. So seriously, do not treat me like some person that doesnt understand the game. Its insulting.

Sometimes you can rez through walls, doors and from downstairs through the roof. Especially in keep towers. Additionally you can always rez through walls with the necro ult. And some people love to troll others. Whispering other players stupid stuff just to make them angry. So there is still a chance that someone just rezzed them through the roof.

But it doesn't mean that people are not cheating. I am pretty sure there is at least some cheating going on in every game.

Jamie_Aubrey

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Rezzing yourself in Cyrodiil seems to depend on how you died. For instance, I know that if you die from fall damage then you can rez yourself, although I don't know if your location (such as inside a keep) can override that. I assume this is overridden if you've taken any recent PvP-related damage, but I don't know if taking damage from NPCs counts.

Going through keep walls seems to be a bug related to gap closers.

In short, I don't think those two things are necessarily evidence of using any cheat programs, but that's not to say that people might not be using exploits.

I only know about the self-rez after fall damage because I accidentally rode my mount off a tall ledge in the no-CP campaign while trying to ride from Chorrol to Vlastarus on a map where my faction didn't have squat, and the lack of the CP perk that reduces fall damage was surprisingly painful.

On the other hand, IIRC dying in the lava around Chorrol will send you back to a wayshrine at your faction's base, which makes sense given that self-rezzing in a lava fissure that you can't climb out of wouldn't be very nice.

I have gotten people banned for doing that, and it was an option in cheat engine when I reported it way back, and there is a difference obviously between falling to your death, and rezzing mid battle after you died to multiple players. As for the keeps, I am talking about players who were outside the keep, then logged out, and then somehow logged back in and were in there. I have also seen people run around behind the gates of the scroll area, and they picked up the scroll while gates were closed, ignoring the instant death mechanic. As for the walls, there were no players around to gap close to, they went up and over the walls with a button click.

It is well documented there is loads of cheating in this game.

You can res people through walls

One of my quidies crashed just outside our own keep postern and when they logged back in they where inside on top of the keep, I dunno if it happened because the keep might have upgraded but that would need more testing for sure

Jammy420

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

You cant rez someone at the top of a tower inside the keep while no one is there. I Was standing on top of them, so dont try to justify this. They even whispered me after to laugh at me proving they could do it. So seriously, do not treat me like some person that doesnt understand the game. Its insulting.

Sometimes you can rez through walls, doors and from downstairs through the roof. Especially in keep towers. Additionally you can always rez through walls with the necro ult. And some people love to troll others. Whispering other players stupid stuff just to make them angry. So there is still a chance that someone just rezzed them through the roof.

But it doesn't mean that people are not cheating. I am pretty sure there is at least some cheating going on in every game.

This was a very prevelant exploit a few years back, it only recently came back. Stop. I have been playing pvp in this game since launch, and have played numerous other games professionally over the years including Halo Reach, H3, GOW 1,2,3, and a few CoD's, I can tell the difference. Im not dumb. This game has documented issues with hacking and exploits, including cheat engine CONSTANTLY being updated for tis game in the past. There is a huge difference between someone being rezzed through the floor, and someone trolling people by dying, rezzing themselves, dying rezzing themselves, repeat, in the middle of a field, or keep, just because they know they wont be caught due to the horrid cheat detection.

Bucky_13

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Rezzing yourself in Cyrodiil seems to depend on how you died. For instance, I know that if you die from fall damage then you can rez yourself, although I don't know if your location (such as inside a keep) can override that. I assume this is overridden if you've taken any recent PvP-related damage, but I don't know if taking damage from NPCs counts.

Going through keep walls seems to be a bug related to gap closers.

In short, I don't think those two things are necessarily evidence of using any cheat programs, but that's not to say that people might not be using exploits.

I only know about the self-rez after fall damage because I accidentally rode my mount off a tall ledge in the no-CP campaign while trying to ride from Chorrol to Vlastarus on a map where my faction didn't have squat, and the lack of the CP perk that reduces fall damage was surprisingly painful.

On the other hand, IIRC dying in the lava around Chorrol will send you back to a wayshrine at your faction's base, which makes sense given that self-rezzing in a lava fissure that you can't climb out of wouldn't be very nice.

I have gotten people banned for doing that, and it was an option in cheat engine when I reported it way back, and there is a difference obviously between falling to your death, and rezzing mid battle after you died to multiple players. As for the keeps, I am talking about players who were outside the keep, then logged out, and then somehow logged back in and were in there. I have also seen people run around behind the gates of the scroll area, while gates were closed, ignoring the instant death mechanic. As for the walls, there were no players around to gap close to, they went up and over the walls with a button click.

It is well documented there is loads of cheating in this game.

There is no instant death mechanic behind enemy gate. This is a myth. I've been behind the gate when it closed and was still alive to tell the tale. Now, where there is an instant death mechanic is in the base itself. I was at AD gate (on EP) and tried climbing the rocks to get into the base... got very close to a ledge and bam! Dead.

The myth was that your character died, not the person playing the game...
/s

As for the thread, I have seen one time in Cyro where there was someone obviously cheating. They ran through walls, cliffs and other obstacles and ran into one of our keeps to grab a scroll which they then ran around with while we tried to damage them while they ran inside the walls. It wasn't a case of accidentally getting stuck in walls which can happen, they did this at multiple keeps and outposts. But that's the only time I've seen it in Cyrodiil.

It wouldn't surprise me if other cheats still exists but a bit more subtly. But a lot of things that can look suspicious can be done without cheating, some of them should probably be considered exploits, like entering a keep from a tree. As for the ress thing, I can often ress other players with my NB inside a keep filled with enemy players without getting detected, they can then wait around a minute to ress, which will look very suspicious but isn't something I'd call an exploit since they were ressed by another player. I'm sure there are other ways people are actually cheating, but I do know that one does look weird if they don't spot me ressing the other player in the first place.

I've also killed other players by spamming snipe in laggy fights which on my screen looked like I hit 4 snipes in one second after 10+ seconds of trying to just get one snipe off. I never try to do that one intentionally, but it happens because performance. I've died from that too many times.

So while I do think there are probably some cheaters, most of the weird stuff is most likely down to players knowing how to do weird said stuff without using cheats, along with servers who don't always work like they should, along with some bugs.

Bucky_13

Jammy420 wrote: »

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Rezzing yourself in Cyrodiil seems to depend on how you died. For instance, I know that if you die from fall damage then you can rez yourself, although I don't know if your location (such as inside a keep) can override that. I assume this is overridden if you've taken any recent PvP-related damage, but I don't know if taking damage from NPCs counts.

Going through keep walls seems to be a bug related to gap closers.

In short, I don't think those two things are necessarily evidence of using any cheat programs, but that's not to say that people might not be using exploits.

I only know about the self-rez after fall damage because I accidentally rode my mount off a tall ledge in the no-CP campaign while trying to ride from Chorrol to Vlastarus on a map where my faction didn't have squat, and the lack of the CP perk that reduces fall damage was surprisingly painful.

On the other hand, IIRC dying in the lava around Chorrol will send you back to a wayshrine at your faction's base, which makes sense given that self-rezzing in a lava fissure that you can't climb out of wouldn't be very nice.

I have gotten people banned for doing that, and it was an option in cheat engine when I reported it way back, and there is a difference obviously between falling to your death, and rezzing mid battle after you died to multiple players. As for the keeps, I am talking about players who were outside the keep, then logged out, and then somehow logged back in and were in there. I have also seen people run around behind the gates of the scroll area, and they picked up the scroll while gates were closed, ignoring the instant death mechanic. As for the walls, there were no players around to gap close to, they went up and over the walls with a button click.

It is well documented there is loads of cheating in this game.

You can res people through walls

You cant rez someone at the top of a tower inside the keep while no one is there. I Was standing on top of them, so dont try to justify this. They even whispered me after to laugh at me proving they could do it. So seriously, do not treat me like some person that doesnt understand the game. Its insulting.

If you stand on top of one of the towers on the outer walls of the keep on top of a dead player, another player can ress them from underneath through the floor/roof, most likely in a spot where you can't see them. This doesn't require any cheats, it's just how the game works. Not saying that particular player didn't cheat since I wasn't there, just saying this is possible within the game as it's coded.

JerBearESO

Played a BGs recently where someone couldn't die...at 0 HP. We kept them at 0 consistently but they wouldn't drop. At one point they just stood there like "yeah what" lol.

I guess the patch worked some exploitable insecurities in....

Lebkuchen

Jammy420 wrote: »

[...] do not treat me like some person that doesnt understand the game. Its insulting [...] Stop [...] I can tell the difference. Im not dumb. This game has documented issues with hacking and exploits, including cheat engine CONSTANTLY being updated for tis game in the past. There is a huge difference between someone being rezzed through the floor, and someone trolling people by dying, rezzing themselves, dying rezzing themselves, repeat, in the middle of a field, or keep, just because they know they wont be caught due to the horrid cheat detection.

Ok, just because someone you don't know doesn't believe your stories right away, and doesn't do what you want them to do, doesn't mean that you should feel insulted and get angry.

This discussion started with: "Game needs anti-cheat application, As posted in the other thread, the script people are using is giving them endless stamina and mana and endless shield rotation."

This is useless. For everyone. Are we supposed to guess what's going on? Should we google "the other thread" to find out what's happening? Any kind of proof would be great. Videos, links... anything. And your stories always changing does not really help...

SeaGtGruff

Bucky_13 wrote: »

As for the ress thing, I can often ress other players with my NB inside a keep filled with enemy players without getting detected, they can then wait around a minute to ress, which will look very suspicious but isn't something I'd call an exploit since they were ressed by another player.

That's a good point; a player who's rezzed by another player can wait before accepting the rez, and accepting the rez well after the fact might look like someone rezzing themselves. Is there a time limit on how long you can wait before accepting a rez?

As for whispering afterward, if someone whispered the "self-rezzing" player to accuse them of using a hack to self-rez, if the accused player were to whisper back something like "LOL, yeah, I can rez myself," that could be sarcasm, like if someone were to-- in all sincerity-- accuse you IRL of being able to fly like a bird and you replied, "Haha! Yep, I can fly like a bird!" (Rolls eyes.) Taken literally and without noticing the eye-roll, it could sound like an admission, rather than like sarcasm. I'm not saying that was the case here, since I wasn't there and haven't seen a video or chat log of what happened. I'm just sayin'.