Gatekeeping new content already

Kusto

This makes no sense. People demand clear for the new trial already. It just dropped on Monday. I saw 2 different pug groups LFM in Craglorn and asked to link clear and even one of my guilds. How are people supposed to get the clear if on 3rd day you're gatekept? I already did vSE on day one so I was able to link mine but then there was only 5 of us in group after 30min and the leader refused to take anyone without clear. I had several friends who I could've invited and they have done all other trials and even some HMs but for some reason the leader thinks they're not capable. What makes vSE so special? It's not even difficult trial.
After more than 30min wasted we all left because we couldn't find enough people with clear lol.

I would like to know what's with the link clear demand in 90% of LFM? Even the older trials like vss which is super easy to pug, they still ask to link. It would be alot faster to get everybody regardless if they have clear or not and then explain mechanics than wait an hour to get a group going.

LunaFlora

woww that is absurd.
i don't understand the need to link trial clears either that's pretty weird

Aislinna

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

Hapexamendios

I don't think I would have joined a group like that in the first place. The requirements were unrealistic and it was bound to fail.

Kusto

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

Aislinna

Kusto wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

And what is the point of complaining about this? You didn't want to form a group (personal reasons are your issue) and apparently there are other pug groups you and your friends can and have joined?

But yes, the raid lead can put ANY requirements they want for the trial they are forming. If you don't like the requirements, you know the alternatives.

LunaFlora

Aislinna wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

And what is the point of complaining about this? You didn't want to form a group (personal reasons are your issue) and apparently there are other pug groups you and your friends can and have joined?

But yes, the raid lead can put ANY requirements they want for the trial they are forming. If you don't like the requirements, you know the alternatives.

it's great raid leaders can make any requirements but this particular requirements clearly makes it difficult for them to fill up their group. pretty bad requirement

Aislinna

LunaFlora wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

And what is the point of complaining about this? You didn't want to form a group (personal reasons are your issue) and apparently there are other pug groups you and your friends can and have joined?

But yes, the raid lead can put ANY requirements they want for the trial they are forming. If you don't like the requirements, you know the alternatives.

it's great raid leaders can make any requirements but this particular requirements clearly makes it difficult for them to fill up their group. pretty bad requirement

If the group doesn't fill, then the alternative is for people form their own group or join other groups.
What is the point of this complaint, to try and shame some raid leader?

Kusto

Aislinna wrote: »

Kusto wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

And what is the point of complaining about this? You didn't want to form a group (personal reasons are your issue) and apparently there are other pug groups you and your friends can and have joined?

But yes, the raid lead can put ANY requirements they want for the trial they are forming. If you don't like the requirements, you know the alternatives.

The point of my post wasn't to complain but to share the craziness and elitism or whatever you wanna call it. I totally agree with you that raid lead decides who they take but to ask for the clear on day 3 is just ridiculous. Not long ago I saw someone doing vAA HM and asked at least non HM clear, lmao. I just wanted to know what could be the reasoning or logic behind this sort of gatekeeping. Are they doing it because they're toxic or they really think its gonna help their run.

I've noticed lately that Craglorn groups don't fill as fast as they used to. But the zone is packed as always, at least on PC/NA. You would think with all the oaken HA shenanigans there would be more capable players than before, dps is no longer the issue, neither is survivability. But it's the gatekeeping.
I wish people would just chill and play together.

jtm1018

Gatekeeping content in eso?

SeaGtGruff

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

That's what I was going to suggest-- just leave the other player's group and advertise in zone for a group of your own with no already-cleared-it requirement.

But I don't know that OP was complaining about it per se, so much as wondering why people would even want to require that so soon after the chapter launched.

jaws343

Kusto wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

I do put pug groups together sometimes for easier trials that don't require voice. I cant always talk coz people around, too much background noise, wife sleeping etc.
Previous trials aside, you think it's fine to ask for trial clear that just dropped?
And what effort are you talking about. I was in 3 vSE pug groups and the leaders didn't lead much because its it's all new to everyone.

I mean, it's fine for the raid lead to request the kind of team they want.

Maybe, they didn't want to have to teach a bunch of PUGs the trial and preferred to try to build a group to have as smooth a run as possible.

Not really unreasonable in my eyes. Unlikely the full a group with that requirement so soon? Sure. But not unreasonable.

TaSheen

Hmm. It's kind of interesting, this person's post.... And that's all I'm going to say.

Vulkunne

Kusto wrote: »

This makes no sense. People demand clear for the new trial already. It just dropped on Monday. I saw 2 different pug groups LFM in Craglorn and asked to link clear and even one of my guilds. How are people supposed to get the clear if on 3rd day you're gatekept? I already did vSE on day one so I was able to link mine but then there was only 5 of us in group after 30min and the leader refused to take anyone without clear. I had several friends who I could've invited and they have done all other trials and even some HMs but for some reason the leader thinks they're not capable. What makes vSE so special? It's not even difficult trial.
After more than 30min wasted we all left because we couldn't find enough people with clear lol.

I would like to know what's with the link clear demand in 90% of LFM? Even the older trials like vss which is super easy to pug, they still ask to link. It would be alot faster to get everybody regardless if they have clear or not and then explain mechanics than wait an hour to get a group going.

No it ain't special. They pull this crap all the time. However, it makes sense if you can at least do it once then you can complete again.

Other hand how do you get started and who are they to judge? Yeah its real vicious which is a reason why I don't run Trials anymore.

Unless its solo or 4 man run you can count me out. And I could care less what they think about me.

Braffin

It's good all those "gatekeeping elitists" aren't finally needed anymore thanks to new fancy builds. That definitely improved the situation.

Soarora

It's probably under the expectation you learn it in a guild then go to craglorn to farm it for perfected gear. Or the people doing that aren't the smartest because everyone knows you can't farm it yet because strats aren't solidified.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

If I were you I would of just voted a kick to the group lead, reformed the group with everyone else but them and then invite anyone of sufficient CP tier.

wolfie1.0.

Honestly, I think that the application of Hanlon's Razor is needed here. Raid leaders can set whatever demands they want to get people in a group, no one is required to join. That said there are some requirements that are more or less unreasonable and not likely to occur. You stumbled into one of these scenarios.

There isn't much point in demanding a toll to open a gate, when there is a hole in the fence just a few meters away with free access.

Amottica

Anyone forming a group for a trial, dungeon, and even open world, can set whatever requirements they want just as we can choose to deal with those or look elsewhere.

Amottica

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

If I were you I would of just voted a kick to the group lead, reformed the group with everyone else but them and then invite anyone of sufficient CP tier.

Can you vote kick a raid lead? Do not think that is possible unless they added it recently.

Vulkunne

Braffin wrote: »

It's good all those "gatekeeping elitists" aren't finally needed anymore thanks to new fancy builds. That definitely improved the situation.

I am singularly impressed and humbled by this post. I forgot how well ingenuity can drive social change. Good work. Damn.

mickeyx

Kusto wrote: »

This makes no sense. People demand clear for the new trial already. It just dropped on Monday. I saw 2 different pug groups LFM in Craglorn and asked to link clear and even one of my guilds. How are people supposed to get the clear if on 3rd day you're gatekept? I already did vSE on day one so I was able to link mine but then there was only 5 of us in group after 30min and the leader refused to take anyone without clear. I had several friends who I could've invited and they have done all other trials and even some HMs but for some reason the leader thinks they're not capable. What makes vSE so special? It's not even difficult trial.
After more than 30min wasted we all left because we couldn't find enough people with clear lol.

I would like to know what's with the link clear demand in 90% of LFM? Even the older trials like vss which is super easy to pug, they still ask to link. It would be alot faster to get everybody regardless if they have clear or not and then explain mechanics than wait an hour to get a group going.

People with no life always gatekeep the latest content. They do nothing else but play games all day.

Jaimeh

Kusto wrote: »

This makes no sense. People demand clear for the new trial already. It just dropped on Monday. I saw 2 different pug groups LFM in Craglorn and asked to link clear and even one of my guilds. How are people supposed to get the clear if on 3rd day you're gatekept? I already did vSE on day one so I was able to link mine but then there was only 5 of us in group after 30min and the leader refused to take anyone without clear. I had several friends who I could've invited and they have done all other trials and even some HMs but for some reason the leader thinks they're not capable. .

There's an easy solution to all of this: start your own group and recruit players without a clear.

Sheezabeast

There's this really great thing built into the base game called Guild Finder.

Utilize it.

This content isn't being gatekept, and holding a Crag Pug as any kind of measuring stick is a mistake.

colossalvoids

Guess we're having different idea of what's gatekeeping is. Form a group and blast through without dealing with ones "keeping" you out.

It's fine for people to have expectations and forming groups however they want, you can't really expect everyone being inclusive selfless being.

Mekie

Kusto wrote: »

Even the older trials like vss which is super easy to pug

indeed. Then group fail because Tombs or Portals

Danikat

Whenever I see groups with unrealistic requirements for joining I assume it's because the leader doesn't actually know what they're doing and is just mimicking what they've seen other groups do without understanding why they put those requirements in place. It's a sign that the group isn't going to be well organised regardless of how strict those requires are.

The silliest I've seen is someone who must have just goggled what the maximum possible CP was and asked for that, but this was days after the system was re-worked when no one had max CP. They didn't even meet their own requirements, but it didn't stop them asking.

FantasticFreddie

I ran a blind run myself last night, there have been multiple blind runs in several of my trials discords, plus there are regular training runs, and farm runs.
Farm runs require a clear or full confidence from the raid lead to run.
Everything else, no clear required and in fact for a blind run, no clear is prefered.
A single Craglorn pug herder wanting a clear does not gatekeeping make.

Luckylancer

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

This gave a good idea. Linking dungeon and trial achievments in chat should be blocked by devs so we can play the game without gatekeepers. Pushing for this in forums can enable harder content for new players that are ready for the hard content but lack the achievment that they want in firstplace.

frogthroat

Kusto wrote: »

there was only 5 of us in group after 30min

Linking clear is an indication the run will be successful. But if there were only 5 of you after such a long time when everyone wants to do the trial, the group leader could have asked to link normal clear and any vet DLC clear. That would show you can play (vet DLC) and you know the basic mechanics (normal clear).

FantasticFreddie

Luckylancer wrote: »

Aislinna wrote: »

Raid leaders put forth the effort to form and lead the trial and can therefore set any requirements they want.

The alternative is for you for form a raid, lead it and set your own requirements. Complaining on the forums does nothing.

This gave a good idea. Linking dungeon and trial achievments in chat should be blocked by devs so we can play the game without gatekeepers. Pushing for this in forums can enable harder content for new players that are ready for the hard content but lack the achievment that they want in firstplace.

You forgot your /s