The state of PvP

Zabagad

afaik that are no debuffs - in the protection area (see your blue screen) they are to protect you from getting pulled out of the safe space.

Bushido2513

IncultaWolf wrote: »

About 80% of my pvp encounters are fighting people using masters duel wield/vate ice staff.

What are the other just curious?

OBJnoob

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

About 80% of my pvp encounters are fighting people using masters duel wield/vate ice staff.

What are the other just curious?

ToT

IncultaWolf

Bushido2513 wrote: »

IncultaWolf wrote: »

About 80% of my pvp encounters are fighting people using masters duel wield/vate ice staff.

What are the other just curious?

Nightblade rats who press cloak the second you look in their direction

mmtaniac

Tanks should't deal damage and have speed at the same time. Someting on tanks build should Go on every possible class. Tanks should be slow ,damage should be squishy healers should have no damage.
Current game grant everything in one and this is biggest problem , heavy armor negatives should slow players not reduce little damage they take, they should be beast in defense but be slower.
I don't know maybe some debuffs to move speed not damage reduction. If Heavy armor will reduce movement speed then this will change a lot in pvp how people will see it ,i know you can compensate it with ring traits but still speed make more difference than damage. That every moment when you can't kill enemy because you were slow, i know this perfect when i use jabs and can't kill enemy because he run away. Right now have execute but still. Heavy armor should debuff movement speed. This way people will change how they see it.

JerBearESO

I like the idea of role specific buff/debuff system. But we want to ensure everyone is killable.

-Damage role: gain damage dealt and taken.
-Healing role: gain healing done, greatly reduce healing taken.
-Tanking role: reduce damage taken, greatly reduce healing done.

This would make everyone killable while encouraging all roles in groups. Notably, tanks would be tanky but would sustain their health only with a healer nearby, while healers would need help surviving due to low incoming healing, and damage dealers would be high threat but squishy so burstable.

Anti_Virus

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear in a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

Bushido2513

JerBearESO wrote: »

I like the idea of role specific buff/debuff system. But we want to ensure everyone is killable.

-Damage role: gain damage dealt and taken.
-Healing role: gain healing done, greatly reduce healing taken.
-Tanking role: reduce damage taken, greatly reduce healing done.

This would make everyone killable while encouraging all roles in groups. Notably, tanks would be tanky but would sustain their health only with a healer nearby, while healers would need help surviving due to low incoming healing, and damage dealers would be high threat but squishy so burstable.

The idea is interesting in theory but the only problem would be that it forces group play and group composition. Sometimes you just want to roll solo in one of those roles and still be able to survive to different levels.

Everyone should be killable but to degrees that match their role and build.

Overall though I like your idea just with tweaks.

Anti_Virus

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

JerBearESO

Bushido2513 wrote: »

JerBearESO wrote: »

I like the idea of role specific buff/debuff system. But we want to ensure everyone is killable.

-Damage role: gain damage dealt and taken.
-Healing role: gain healing done, greatly reduce healing taken.
-Tanking role: reduce damage taken, greatly reduce healing done.

This would make everyone killable while encouraging all roles in groups. Notably, tanks would be tanky but would sustain their health only with a healer nearby, while healers would need help surviving due to low incoming healing, and damage dealers would be high threat but squishy so burstable.

The idea is interesting in theory but the only problem would be that it forces group play and group composition. Sometimes you just want to roll solo in one of those roles and still be able to survive to different levels.

Everyone should be killable but to degrees that match their role and build.

Overall though I like your idea just with tweaks.

As a solo player, I wouldn't want to harm solo play xD

I think the healer and tank effects are group oriented, which is fine because those roles should only be played in a group, otherwise they serve as little more than troll builds. But I think the damage role effect would be fine for solo play. Being squishy with the trade off of being able to get the upper hand and burst your target is fair and how PvP used to feel anyway. It's more outplay focused.

But yes I agree, there would need to be considerable tweaking of the buff/debuff rates if it were implemented.

Jsmalls

Everyone is sleeping on No CP cyrodiil. On PC at least thing runs flawlessly for 100+ keep battles, broken builds are a lot less common, and it feels like ESO classic.... Only really has a population during midyear but I've gotten my taste in for the double MYM events. Wish more people would try it....

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Xandreia_

Jsmalls wrote: »

Everyone is sleeping on No CP cyrodiil. On PC at least thing runs flawlessly for 100+ keep battles, broken builds are a lot less common, and it feels like ESO classic.... Only really has a population during midyear but I've gotten my taste in for the double MYM events. Wish more people would try it....

Every time I've been in no cp on PC/NA it has been a ghost town. even in midyear, its dead, so I'm unsure where you are getting perfect 100 player+ fights from, I'm lucky if I see 4 people lol

Anti_Virus

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

OBJnoob

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

Not really my place to say, but I think I have the answer. And I think it is consistent with what they've been saying, as well as with what the general consensus among "good" players is.

The damage meta we're in is fueled by the free 1000 damage everybody got when they redid CP, some arguably overtuned mythics, arena weapons, and I suppose a few sets to boot.

So people will perhaps use Sea Serpents Coil... Perhaps use Balorghs... Perhaps use Stinging Slashes, and voila they have high damage. But this didn't take up many gear slots, so everybody is free to fill the holes in their build with 5-piece sets. And most people are choosing a defensive set. Either rallying cry for a little more damage, maras for the cleanse, or Pariah. Also there's the Undeath passive and the large amounts of health people are ending up with.

You could really phrase it either way and be correct but if we're talking about what MOST of their gear slots are devoted to it probably is defense.

Also, about "free" damage, there's the abundance of status effects that people are building into these days. Whether it be simply slotting Weakness to Elements or perhaps using the charged weapon trait.

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

These are not contradictory statements. You can throw on vates destro and masters dw and then put everything else into defense

It’s so easy for the majority players to just get their damage from sets like that and focus the rest into defense. That’s pretty much what the majority of cyro is like.

Alchimiste1

To clear my views up; I believe that as things currently are, there are no real trade offs to building damage, sustain, and tankyness as there were in the past. I believe this is a view shared by many. HOWEVER, I do believe that splitting heals and weapon/spell damage would only lead to an even tankier meta for different reasons. A lot of that is player mentality.

Anti_Virus

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

These are not contradictory statements. You can throw on vates destro and masters dw and then put everything else into defense

It’s so easy for the majority players to just get their damage from sets like that and focus the rest into defense. That’s pretty much what the majority of cyro is like.

1.) can you name the defensive sets that players are using that makes them tanky?

LOS and healing don’t count since you don’t need to build for that

2.)
So now majority of players use Master Dual wield and vateshran staff but didn’t you say that only
only 1%-5% of players build like this?

“Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way”

Also

“ yeah that proc build is very strong, I’ve had people with 40k health in those sets try and zerg me down. Probably with 4 defense cp because it wasn’t doing much”

According to you this isn’t very effective since these players didn’t hit hard and is somehow proof of a tank meta, but at the same time it’s so effective that the majority of players get their damage from these proc sets.

So again which is it?

Anti_Virus

OBJnoob wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

Not really my place to say, but I think I have the answer. And I think it is consistent with what they've been saying, as well as with what the general consensus among "good" players is.

The damage meta we're in is fueled by the free 1000 damage everybody got when they redid CP, some arguably overtuned mythics, arena weapons, and I suppose a few sets to boot.

So people will perhaps use Sea Serpents Coil... Perhaps use Balorghs... Perhaps use Stinging Slashes, and voila they have high damage. But this didn't take up many gear slots, so everybody is free to fill the holes in their build with 5-piece sets. And most people are choosing a defensive set. Either rallying cry for a little more damage, maras for the cleanse, or Pariah. Also there's the Undeath passive and the large amounts of health people are ending up with.

You could really phrase it either way and be correct but if we're talking about what MOST of their gear slots are devoted to it probably is defense.

Also, about "free" damage, there's the abundance of status effects that people are building into these days. Whether it be simply slotting Weakness to Elements or perhaps using the charged weapon trait.

I agree with him(or her) about damage being too high and survivability being too much but the solutions proposed to deal with these issue seem to be a Band aid fix to the problem.

1.) “Cap max HP to 35K”
If you do this the TTK in this game will drop to fps levels seeing as Night Blades(and sometimes DKs) can insta kill players with sub 27K HP. Most people build high hp so then don’t die instantly. Before capping HP damage needs to be lowered

2.) “Nerf cross healing for ball groups”
With This change all you will get is an organized ball group that each can heal themselves and deal high damage which doesn’t solve your problem

3.) “Nerf damage based proc sets”
This isn’t a good change because you are hurting PVE builds because of PVP, also proc sets while making some classes viable in pvp(Arcanist and Sorcerer) it’s not needed for DKs, night blades and wardens so theses classes would thrive without them while the two I mentioned earlier would suffer.


These suggestions don’t address the main point, players don’t have to make any sacrifices in their builds they can have it all and it’s a problem. As long as a night blade(or any class for that matter) can hit you for a 20K spec bow and crit heal with healthy offerings for 17K while moving at the speed of light you will never have balance.

The solution is simple and it’s one that players don’t want to hear but you need to decouple damage from healing.

The only downside, and this is minor is I guess “good” players won’t be able to run up and down resources towers or behind trees and rocks “1vXing” as easily anymore

OBJnoob

@Anti_Virus

Oooh, is that what you're after? Decouple healing power from weapon damage? Yes, I support this.

A lot of talented players hate this idea, as you say, because it will be very harmful to the Xing experience. But I think they might hate it less if they realized I, at least, don't mean completely. If weapon damage is 1:1 for healing power and max stat is 10:1 (not sure if these numbers are correct-- just an example,) then I would just like it to be more like 5:1 and 5:1. Just move the slider over a little.

Soraka

With the introduction of the armory system I also don't see why they can't balance PvE and pvp separately.

Anti_Virus

OBJnoob wrote: »

@Anti_Virus

Oooh, is that what you're after? Decouple healing power from weapon damage? Yes, I support this.

A lot of talented players hate this idea, as you say, because it will be very harmful to the Xing experience. But I think they might hate it less if they realized I, at least, don't mean completely. If weapon damage is 1:1 for healing power and max stat is 10:1 (not sure if these numbers are correct-- just an example,) then I would just like it to be more like 5:1 and 5:1. Just move the slider over a little.

Yes, I think this is the root of all the problems in pvp and yeah the ratio you proposed is a good start for ZOS to experiment with.

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

These are not contradictory statements. You can throw on vates destro and masters dw and then put everything else into defense

It’s so easy for the majority players to just get their damage from sets like that and focus the rest into defense. That’s pretty much what the majority of cyro is like.

1.) can you name the defensive sets that players are using that makes them tanky?

LOS and healing don’t count since you don’t need to build for that

2.)
So now majority of players use Master Dual wield and vateshran staff but didn’t you say that only
only 1%-5% of players build like this?

“Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way”

Also

“ yeah that proc build is very strong, I’ve had people with 40k health in those sets try and zerg me down. Probably with 4 defense cp because it wasn’t doing much”

According to you this isn’t very effective since these players didn’t hit hard and is somehow proof of a tank meta, but at the same time it’s so effective that the majority of players get their damage from these proc sets.

So again which is it?

<snip>you had way of fire in the build you mentioned. Most people would also slot a tank set instead of that along with the arena weapons, and maybe some tank monster set. My statements still stand most of the players you see in cyro aren’t playing a full damage bomber. Also the amount of defense cp people slot are a factor. And those type of builds are oppressive when outnumbering not the reverse. In any case it seems to me like you simply don’t have the foresight to understand what would happen under those proposed changes

<snipped for bashing>

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

Not really my place to say, but I think I have the answer. And I think it is consistent with what they've been saying, as well as with what the general consensus among "good" players is.

The damage meta we're in is fueled by the free 1000 damage everybody got when they redid CP, some arguably overtuned mythics, arena weapons, and I suppose a few sets to boot.

So people will perhaps use Sea Serpents Coil... Perhaps use Balorghs... Perhaps use Stinging Slashes, and voila they have high damage. But this didn't take up many gear slots, so everybody is free to fill the holes in their build with 5-piece sets. And most people are choosing a defensive set. Either rallying cry for a little more damage, maras for the cleanse, or Pariah. Also there's the Undeath passive and the large amounts of health people are ending up with.

You could really phrase it either way and be correct but if we're talking about what MOST of their gear slots are devoted to it probably is defense.

Also, about "free" damage, there's the abundance of status effects that people are building into these days. Whether it be simply slotting Weakness to Elements or perhaps using the charged weapon trait.

I agree with him(or her) about damage being too high and survivability being too much but the solutions proposed to deal with these issue seem to be a Band aid fix to the problem.

1.) “Cap max HP to 35K”
If you do this the TTK in this game will drop to fps levels seeing as Night Blades(and sometimes DKs) can insta kill players with sub 27K HP. Most people build high hp so then don’t die instantly. Before capping HP damage needs to be lowered

2.) “Nerf cross healing for ball groups”
With This change all you will get is an organized ball group that each can heal themselves and deal high damage which doesn’t solve your problem

3.) “Nerf damage based proc sets”
This isn’t a good change because you are hurting PVE builds because of PVP, also proc sets while making some classes viable in pvp(Arcanist and Sorcerer) it’s not needed for DKs, night blades and wardens so theses classes would thrive without them while the two I mentioned earlier would suffer.


These suggestions don’t address the main point, players don’t have to make any sacrifices in their builds they can have it all and it’s a problem. As long as a night blade(or any class for that matter) can hit you for a 20K spec bow and crit heal with healthy offerings for 17K while moving at the speed of light you will never have balance.

The solution is simple and it’s one that players don’t want to hear but you need to decouple damage from healing.

The only downside, and this is minor is I guess “good” players won’t be able to run up and down resources towers or behind trees and rocks “1vXing” as easily anymore

All your points are bad.

1) Max hp cap of of 35k is not low at all and is plenty of a cushion for anyone in pvp by todays standard. But if you want to argue about bringing it down to 30k and then adjusting some classes like nb then sure.

2) No In fact , it would make ball groups actually killable. Will it make other non ball group players also more killable ? sure. But it would be a net positive for players not in a highly organized 12 man.

3) damage proc sets should absolutely be nerfed. I don’t care about pve , they’ll do fine with more stat oriented setups.

I also said damage should come from the class kit not procs and i stand by all that.

Anti_Virus

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

These are not contradictory statements. You can throw on vates destro and masters dw and then put everything else into defense

It’s so easy for the majority players to just get their damage from sets like that and focus the rest into defense. That’s pretty much what the majority of cyro is like.

1.) can you name the defensive sets that players are using that makes them tanky?

LOS and healing don’t count since you don’t need to build for that

2.)
So now majority of players use Master Dual wield and vateshran staff but didn’t you say that only
only 1%-5% of players build like this?

“Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way”

Also

“ yeah that proc build is very strong, I’ve had people with 40k health in those sets try and zerg me down. Probably with 4 defense cp because it wasn’t doing much”

According to you this isn’t very effective since these players didn’t hit hard and is somehow proof of a tank meta, but at the same time it’s so effective that the majority of players get their damage from these proc sets.

So again which is it?

<snip>you had way of fire in the build you mentioned. Most people would also slot a tank set instead of that along with the arena weapons, and maybe some tank monster set. My statements still stand most of the players you see in cyro aren’t playing a full damage bomber. Also the amount of defense cp people slot are a factor. And those type of builds are oppressive when outnumbering not the reverse. In any case it seems to me like you simply don’t have the foresight to understand what would happen under those proposed changes

<snipped for bashing>

You also said that most players run “niche” set ups and not the meta sets that I mentioned earlier. At least you fixed that contradictory statement

I like how you claim that I lack “foresight” but then make this statement here:

“damage proc sets should absolutely be nerfed. I don’t care about pve, they’ll do fine with more stat oriented setups.”

Just because you don’t care about PVE balance doesn’t mean damage proc sets should be nerfed. You don’t even know how much you would hurt PVE builds with this suggestion

Which proc sets should be nerfed? Pillar of nirn? Relequen? Please explain or do you mean all proc damage sets because “who cares about PVE”

It’s apparent to me that in an attempt to prove a point you will sometimes contradict your own statements. Additionally, your balance proposals are also selfish and benefit you at others expense.

Alchimiste1

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

1.) This is anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

2) What were you trying to prove here? That this is some kind of DK survivability build? Are you kidding me dude? Stop being disingenuous

3) Again anecdotal and doesn’t prove anything

4) So you’re just going to dismiss bomb builds because they prove your argument wrong? Lmao ok

Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way

Citation need in the bolded part otherwise it’s BS and again anecdotal

No matter how you try to rationalize it, these set ups appear and a lot of build videos which is safe to assume that it’s the most popular in PVP. The main goal of these builds is to deal damage, kill as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, no need for survivability

See by that logic everything you said was anecdotal too.
I don’t really care what you think to say otherwise, time has shown that most players prefer to go tanky.

Also, I’m not dismissing bomb builds or that dk build because of what they are, I’m dismissing them because they are irrelevant to what the argument is actually about. How 1%-5% if the population decides to build does not counter my point that most build defensively. And that dk build has 2 defensive sets, which actually helps my point not yours. Again, what I’m saying is if weapon/spell damage was independent of healing values it would lead to an overall tankier meta.

I’m not going to argue anymore of your anecdotal claims, but I disagree with the notion that splitting stats will make players tankier or lead to a tankier meta, it simply won’t

Don’t care, the people who are good and have played for long know

Just a reminder didn’t you say this in a separate thread which claimed that we are in a tank meta?

“ I would argue and say we are not in a tank meta. In fact I think damage rn is very high. There are so many dots and procs going around. I think the real offender here is cross healing, which I do think needs to be toned down or reworked.”

Then you turn around and say that players tend to build for survivability over damage, so which is it then?

These are not contradictory statements. You can throw on vates destro and masters dw and then put everything else into defense

It’s so easy for the majority players to just get their damage from sets like that and focus the rest into defense. That’s pretty much what the majority of cyro is like.

1.) can you name the defensive sets that players are using that makes them tanky?

LOS and healing don’t count since you don’t need to build for that

2.)
So now majority of players use Master Dual wield and vateshran staff but didn’t you say that only
only 1%-5% of players build like this?

“Above all else. Everything you listed is NOT what the majority of players will use. They are more niche setups. Let’s not lie and say the majority of the players build that way”

Also

“ yeah that proc build is very strong, I’ve had people with 40k health in those sets try and zerg me down. Probably with 4 defense cp because it wasn’t doing much”

According to you this isn’t very effective since these players didn’t hit hard and is somehow proof of a tank meta, but at the same time it’s so effective that the majority of players get their damage from these proc sets.

So again which is it?

<snip>you had way of fire in the build you mentioned. Most people would also slot a tank set instead of that along with the arena weapons, and maybe some tank monster set. My statements still stand most of the players you see in cyro aren’t playing a full damage bomber. Also the amount of defense cp people slot are a factor. And those type of builds are oppressive when outnumbering not the reverse. In any case it seems to me like you simply don’t have the foresight to understand what would happen under those proposed changes

<snipped for bashing>

You also said that most players run “niche” set ups and not the meta sets that I mentioned earlier. At least you fixed that contradictory statement

I like how you claim that I lack “foresight” but then make this statement here:

“damage proc sets should absolutely be nerfed. I don’t care about pve, they’ll do fine with more stat oriented setups.”

Just because you don’t care about PVE balance doesn’t mean damage proc sets should be nerfed. You don’t even know how much you would hurt PVE builds with this suggestion

Which proc sets should be nerfed? Pillar of nirn? Relequen? Please explain or do you mean all because “who cares about PVE”

It’s apparent to me that you in an attempt to prove a point you will sometimes contradict your own statements. Additionally, your balance proposals are also selfish and benefit you at others expense.

I didn’t say that. The only thing I have edited are typos not any of my reasonings. I can quote something and try to manipulated it to fit my narrative too.

You said ,“ Imo proc damage sets should have a damage cap in pvp zones”. So you agree that damage procs do too much ? And that pve shouldn’t be a factor when balancing them in pvp ? Which is it buddy ?

Who the heck mentioned pilllar of nirn as problematic in pvp ? I’ve done end game trials in the past , I’m sure pve will be fine without something like Pilar of nirn even though I see no reason to nerf it.

I explained the reason behind everything I said you just refuse to acknowledge it. If it still seems contradictory you just lack the game knowledge. Sorry man I already explained why your 3 suggestions weren’t good , if you still can’t see that then that’s on you.

Jsmalls

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Everyone is sleeping on No CP cyrodiil. On PC at least thing runs flawlessly for 100+ keep battles, broken builds are a lot less common, and it feels like ESO classic.... Only really has a population during midyear but I've gotten my taste in for the double MYM events. Wish more people would try it....

Every time I've been in no cp on PC/NA it has been a ghost town. even in midyear, its dead, so I'm unsure where you are getting perfect 100 player+ fights from, I'm lucky if I see 4 people lol

During MYM it usually has population lock for AD, then 1-2 bars each of DC and EP. This is of course at certain parts of the day (hours that are more populated). Over the past week I've had numerous fights with 100+ inside the outer walls of a keep. Game doesn't even stutter (I came from Xbox so I know what poor performance is both "unplayable" and "slight decrease"). When I say the game runs like a dream.... It truly does. I know that Zos has said it before but it really needs to be looked into. Clearly a combination of champion points and Procs are causing a severe effect on the server.