Companion Perk overhaul

richo262

Mirri - Treasure Chests have a 30% chance of inconveniencing you with a container you have to open usually containing not much
Bastian - Potions looted have a 30% chance of being a different potion that is to uncommon to warrant a place on your quickslot, and is not as good as the ones you'd craft anyway
Ember - Pick pocket results in a chance for another container you have to open
Isobel - After defeating a WB, you have a chance of another container
Azandar - Another container (portfolio) I have to open
Sharp-as-Night - Fish have a higher chance of being trophies, with a 0% of chance of having Roe.

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill
Sharp-as-Night - Reel Technique is now a PASSIVE skill (I was going to say Angler's Instincts but there is a valid reason someone may want this off the bar, because they want actual fish for roe, unless in a recent patch, unique fish don't drop twice?)

Anyway, I think most of the green tree should be passive anyway, but if ZOS insists on it being the way it is, at least let that be the benefit of the companions, something much more useful and worth getting.

phaneub17_ESO

richo262 wrote: »

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill

This explains absolutely NOTHING.

richo262

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill

This explains absolutely NOTHING.

Okay, so think ACTIVE, but the opposite of that.

Marcus684

Why is this such a big deal for some people? Just vendor the extra pots from Bastian and ignore the extra containers until the next time you feel like opening them all. It's such a trivial issue, and some people actually like the idea of a reward container that holds an unknown prize.

Necrotech_Master

richo262 wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill

This explains absolutely NOTHING.

Okay, so think ACTIVE, but the opposite of that.

all of those things are already passives lol, not seeing the difference

richo262

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill

This explains absolutely NOTHING.

Okay, so think ACTIVE, but the opposite of that.

all of those things are already passives lol, not seeing the difference

Other than the fact they are not passive, sure.

opalcity

You keep saying this word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

TaSheen

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

richo262 wrote: »

Alternatively

Mirri - Fortune's Favor is now a PASSIVE skill
Bastian - Liquid Efficiency is now a PASSIVE skill
Ember - Cutpurse is now a PASSIVE skill
Isobel - Treasure Hunter is now a PASSIVE skill
Azandar - Homemaker is now a PASSIVE skill

This explains absolutely NOTHING.

Okay, so think ACTIVE, but the opposite of that.

all of those things are already passives lol, not seeing the difference

He's wanting to change to the green tree passives that add more valuable or less annoying container-based stuff. Makes sense to me, but it doesn't have to make sense to me since I don't use companions at all.

richo262

opalcity wrote: »

You keep saying this word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Passive - A skill that grants a benefit without being activated
Active - A skill that must be used to grant a benefit

Regarding CP, all non slotable perks are true passive. All perks requiring slotting are only activated when slotted.

You could run the argument they are quasi-passive like Magelight if you want to get bogged down in semantics, but if that is what you are getting caught up on, then I can only assume you are being intentionally difficult.

Necrotech_Master

richo262 wrote: »

opalcity wrote: »

You keep saying this word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Passive - A skill that grants a benefit without being activated
Active - A skill that must be used to grant a benefit

Regarding CP, all non slotable perks are true passive. All perks requiring slotting are only activated when slotted.

You could run the argument they are quasi-passive like Magelight if you want to get bogged down in semantics, but if that is what you are getting caught up on, then I can only assume you are being intentionally difficult.

this is exactly what the companion passives are

you dont need to activate a skill to get a 30% chance to get a treasure bag on a chest, its just there

once you get the keepsake you dont even need the companion summoned and it truly is a full passive

if you dont have the keepsake, its still a passive when your companion is summoned, you dont need to activate or trigger anything besides summoning the companion

should there be an option to disable the keepsakes for those who care? sure why not, i dont care, but they definitely should not be moved into cp, since they are tied to the companion

richo262

It's like trying to herd Khajiits

So, you seem to be caught up on the companion passive memento thing, I guess we are talking about two sets of passives.

1) The present memento passive he companion gives which is terrible.
2) The existing CP system that has active slots that really don't need to be active.

What I am saying is, instead of ZOS finding a new an interesting way to load our inventories with garbage, have the 1) passive, cause a 2) active to become passive instead freeing us of two hinderances at once. The first hinderance is all the new garbage entering our inventories every update which seems to only be to make the game intentionally unplayable without the craftbag or a nightmare for console users, the second hinderance is the 1 step backwards with the new CP system making us slot different greens to do different activities which 9/10 you probably already started doing and forgot to slot them. Again I feel sorry for console users without Jack of all trade addons.

Necrotech_Master

first of all, the companion passives should not be tied to cp, if you were a brand new account with no cp, you couldnt even use them

second of all, the green cp tree for example has way too much that is slottable that should be passive already, so 100% hard pass trying to add more cp nodes there

it would be much better if they just had an option to enable/disable the companion keepsake, because that sounds exactly like what you want if you basically want it to be a cp slottable

richo262

However saying that, my recommendation to change Mirri to 'Fortune's Favor is now passive' is incorrect, I initially had her as Treasure Hunter, then had to consider Isobel as more suitable for Treasure Hunter. I did not double check Fortune Favor as being active and now I'm thinking about it I think it actually is already passive, nevertheless the principle is, Companion mementos should convert a Green CP to totally passive.

richo262

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

first of all, the companion passives should not be tied to cp, if you were a brand new account with no cp, you couldnt even use them

second of all, the green cp tree for example has way too much that is slottable that should be passive already, so 100% hard pass trying to add more cp nodes there

it would be much better if they just had an option to enable/disable the companion keepsake, because that sounds exactly like what you want if you basically want it to be a cp slottable

Are we having the same conversation?

1) Agree, somewhat, but lets be real by the time a new player levels their companion and gets full rapport they have probably made it to CP levels.

2) That is exactly my point, it is to convert slotable active perks, into totally passive no longer needing to be slotted perks. Not adding a single new thing to the CP tree.

3) No, it is about nuking the existing keepsakes bonus from orbit, and changing it to convert relevant existing slottable perks in the green tree to render them totally passive not requiring to be slotted at all.

Marcus684

Just have the Companion mementos be a toggle that you can check to activate or uncheck to disable. Much simpler than trying to incorporate them into the already messy CP system.

Hapexamendios

They're fine the way they are. Opening the containers and selling stuff is not hard nor does it take much time. That seems to be your major complaint and it does not even need to be addressed imo.

Necrotech_Master

richo262 wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

first of all, the companion passives should not be tied to cp, if you were a brand new account with no cp, you couldnt even use them

second of all, the green cp tree for example has way too much that is slottable that should be passive already, so 100% hard pass trying to add more cp nodes there

it would be much better if they just had an option to enable/disable the companion keepsake, because that sounds exactly like what you want if you basically want it to be a cp slottable

Are we having the same conversation?

1) Agree, somewhat, but lets be real by the time a new player levels their companion and gets full rapport they have probably made it to CP levels.

2) That is exactly my point, it is to convert slotable active perks, into totally passive no longer needing to be slotted perks. Not adding a single new thing to the CP tree.

3) No, it is about nuking the existing keepsakes bonus from orbit, and changing it to convert relevant existing slottable perks in the green tree to render them totally passive not requiring to be slotted at all.

it would make much more sense and be far less complex (keeping 2 entirely different systems separate) by just making the keepsakes toggles to turn on and off

the cp tree is its own mess, dont tie companion stuff to it

Heartrage

2 things:

1-I agree with the sentiment, the green cp tree needs a bit of revamp and the companions "completion" passive have problems. That being said, this would make the green cp tree slottables useless. I think they could give other better passives than the ones they give now. I wouldn’t be against only the active companion giving one of the slottable cp effects.

2-It’s pedantic but slottable passives are not actives just as armor and weapons bonuses aren’t active.

richo262

Marcus684 wrote: »

Why is this such a big deal for some people? Just vendor the extra pots from Bastian and ignore the extra containers until the next time you feel like opening them all. It's such a trivial issue, and some people actually like the idea of a reward container that holds an unknown prize.

Hapexamendios wrote: »

They're fine the way they are. Opening the containers and selling stuff is not hard nor does it take much time. That seems to be your major complaint and it does not even need to be addressed imo.

It is not exactly my issue, I use addons to auto junk the ennnnnormous amount of garbage this game throws at me.

My concern is the longevity of the game. A while ago I convinced 3 of my friends that were looking for a new game to get into to try ESO, they did. They quit after a week because the inventory system was sub par, half the inventory was junk, and of that, didn't even sell for anything. I know at least 15 others that tried it in ESO free trial events that most never bought the game because of the exact same reason.

It is easy to say for somebody using addons, craftbag and has experience with the game to navigate the systems and inventory management. Every time ZOS introduces new items to the game without systems to manage them or adds them for the sake of it, or forces somebody to delve into their inventory for not a whole lot of benefit, I know first hand deters people from coming back.

I hope there is an overhaul of consumeables and crafting mats ie.
Reduce Enchants to just Denata (Dailies), Rekuta (Furniture) and Kuta (Gear)
Reduce to just Jone and Jode for positive and negative enchant and removing all level requirements on Enchanted to operate like event foods.

Similarly, alchemy, remove biles and convert all waters into Pure water, remove level requirement on potions just like crown potions. If water is used then it is a potion, if no water is used then it is poison (spider eggs, larvae etc all have enough gooey stuff to make a paste on your sword) and by removing biles it would become a gold sink of sorts, or at least slow the inflation.

The skills would need to be adjusted from requiring points to produced increased level item, to chance of success, 100% being max.

That would depeg the consumeable craftable items from the level system entirely just like the top end foods the game has.

richo262

Heartrage wrote: »

2 things:

1-I agree with the sentiment, the green cp tree needs a bit of revamp and the companions "completion" passive have problems. That being said, this would make the green cp tree slottables useless. I think they could give other better passives than the ones they give now. I wouldn’t be against only the active companion giving one of the slottable cp effects.

2-It’s pedantic but slottable passives are not actives just as armor and weapons bonuses aren’t active.

I'm not sure how it would make it useless? All it does is render Liquid Efficacy unable to be slotted, if you put CP points in it, it would behave just like any unslottable CP perk.

Prior to Bastion completion, you can put Liquid Efficacy on the bar. After Bastion completion, you can no longer put it on the bar, and you no longer need to. All it should do is render Liquid Efficacy just like all the other true passive perks. Whether you want to put points in it afterward or not is entirely up to you.

evan302

I'm not sure making CP slottables into passives as a reward for getting full rapport with your companions is a good idea. It's tying two systems together that would probably be best kept separate.

I do agree that the companion rewards are lacklustre and in some cases, downright annoying, so I agee that a rework would be nice or at the very least, make it possible to toggle the perks off.
If what I've read on the forums is true Bastion's potions don't actually work, Ember's passive displaces other loot you might get from pickpocketing and Sharp's reward would mean you'd have less chance to get Perfect Roe (and am I right in thinking that's on all characters because it's account wide?).
Reference for Ember's perk possibly being negative: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633046/embers-intuition-perk-seems-more-like-a-loss-than-a-gain#latest

richo262

evan302 wrote: »

I'm not sure making CP slottables into passives as a reward for getting full rapport with your companions is a good idea. It's tying two systems together that would probably be best kept separate.

I do agree that the companion rewards are lacklustre and in some cases, downright annoying, so I agee that a rework would be nice or at the very least, make it possible to toggle the perks off.
If what I've read on the forums is true Bastion's potions don't actually work, Ember's passive displaces other loot you might get from pickpocketing and Sharp's reward would mean you'd have less chance to get Perfect Roe (and am I right in thinking that's on all characters because it's account wide?).
Reference for Ember's perk possibly being negative: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/633046/embers-intuition-perk-seems-more-like-a-loss-than-a-gain#latest

Fair enough
New solution, make all CP Green passives as they should be.

Changes to mementos

Bastion perk - 5% chance of not using a potion on use (additive, but not connected to Liquid Efficiency)
Mirri - 5% extra gold from chests and safeboxes
Ember - 10% chance of 1 extra loot item per pick pocket (not a container)
Isobel - 5% chance of greater quality gear in chests
Azander - 5% of double drop on furniture recipes
Sharp as Night - 2% increased chance of roe or 5% faster reel speed.

They may seem low, but as more companions come out they can add to those stats, if they are too high then they will get nerfed. Many of those perks are somewhat in the Green CP tree, but now instead of being tied to them, they can be additive to them. Not a single perk there adds containers, or interferes with roe, or dumps garbage in your inventory.

FeedbackOnly

I will take the potions from bastian being fixed...

Heartrage

richo262 wrote: »

Heartrage wrote: »

2 things:

1-I agree with the sentiment, the green cp tree needs a bit of revamp and the companions "completion" passive have problems. That being said, this would make the green cp tree slottables useless. I think they could give other better passives than the ones they give now. I wouldn’t be against only the active companion giving one of the slottable cp effects.

2-It’s pedantic but slottable passives are not actives just as armor and weapons bonuses aren’t active.

I'm not sure how it would make it useless? All it does is render Liquid Efficacy unable to be slotted, if you put CP points in it, it would behave just like any unslottable CP perk.

Prior to Bastion completion, you can put Liquid Efficacy on the bar. After Bastion completion, you can no longer put it on the bar, and you no longer need to. All it should do is render Liquid Efficacy just like all the other true passive perks. Whether you want to put points in it afterward or not is entirely up to you.

There’s 18 slottables in the green tree. We will have 6 companions this year. This means that 33% of the slottables would become redundants right away. It’s about 240 green cp points that would be useless to have at max level. If we keep getting companions, and I don’t see why we wouldn’t, it means more and more of those points would become useless and make the choice of slotting passives thinner and thinner.

evan302

@richo262
I like your new proposals-

richo262 wrote: »

Changes to mementos

Bastion perk - 5% chance of not using a potion on use (additive, but not connected to Liquid Efficiency)
Mirri - 5% extra gold from chests and safeboxes
Ember - 10% chance of 1 extra loot item per pick pocket (not a container)
Isobel - 5% chance of greater quality gear in chests
Azander - 5% of double drop on furniture recipes
Sharp as Night - 2% increased chance of roe or 5% faster reel speed.

These would definitely give players an incentive to level their companions to max. They aren't overly generous but they're still well worth having.