Heavy attack has an insane bug in pvp content.

Melzo · May 2023

In pvp content, there is some kind of crazy bug on heavy attack. When you hit a mob you will also attack nearby units. It's funny to see how you die on the first hit since the power attack dealt you 30k damage. Not in 5-10 seconds, but instantly. For the first hit.If we talk about what the bug does, it is that the mobs take huge damage from heavy attacks. And everyone who stands next to the mob will receive just crazy damage. This is especially true of the imperial city.

YetAnotherLinuxUser · May 2023

Isn't that a new feature?

endgamesmug · May 2023

Is it possible to just avoid being around mobs getting heavied?

Soarora · May 2023

endgamesmug wrote: »

Is it possible to just avoid being around mobs getting heavied?

Not if you're melee. Not even if you're ranged in some cases.

UnabashedlyHonest · May 2023

Melzo wrote: »

In pvp content, there is some kind of crazy bug on heavy attack. When you hit a mob you will also attack nearby units. It's funny to see how you die on the first hit since the power attack dealt you 30k damage. Not in 5-10 seconds, but instantly. For the first hit.If we talk about what the bug does, it is that the mobs take huge damage from heavy attacks. And everyone who stands next to the mob will receive just crazy damage. This is especially true of the imperial city.

Are you sure you're not just getting hit with Occult Overload? So one of your team mates dies and blows you up?

Marcus684 · May 2023

It’s a known bug with lightning heavy attacks that people are abusing in IC. The splash damage isn’t being reduced by Battle Spirit, so people fighting IC bosses are getting 1-shotted. So far ZOS hasn’t done anything about it I guess it’s a feature.

Jamie_Aubrey · May 2023

Marcus684 wrote: »

It’s a known bug with lightning heavy attacks that people are abusing in IC. The splash damage isn’t being reduced by Battle Spirit, so people fighting IC bosses are getting 1-shotted. So far ZOS hasn’t done anything about it I guess it’s a feature.

Time to go back to lightning staff for a while

Dr_Con · May 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

In pvp content, there is some kind of crazy bug on heavy attack. When you hit a mob you will also attack nearby units. It's funny to see how you die on the first hit since the power attack dealt you 30k damage. Not in 5-10 seconds, but instantly. For the first hit.If we talk about what the bug does, it is that the mobs take huge damage from heavy attacks. And everyone who stands next to the mob will receive just crazy damage. This is especially true of the imperial city.

Are you sure you're not just getting hit with Occult Overload? So one of your team mates dies and blows you up?

when it happened to me, it seemed instant, however the sheer buffoonery of dying just because a mob was heavy attacked might not have processed in my head (so 2 seconds instead of instant, which is practically instant)

GetAgrippa · May 2023

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

In pvp content, there is some kind of crazy bug on heavy attack. When you hit a mob you will also attack nearby units. It's funny to see how you die on the first hit since the power attack dealt you 30k damage. Not in 5-10 seconds, but instantly. For the first hit.If we talk about what the bug does, it is that the mobs take huge damage from heavy attacks. And everyone who stands next to the mob will receive just crazy damage. This is especially true of the imperial city.

Are you sure you're not just getting hit with Occult Overload? So one of your team mates dies and blows you up?

Yes, we're sure.

Kaelthorn_Nightbloom · May 2023

Dr_Con wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

In pvp content, there is some kind of crazy bug on heavy attack. When you hit a mob you will also attack nearby units. It's funny to see how you die on the first hit since the power attack dealt you 30k damage. Not in 5-10 seconds, but instantly. For the first hit.If we talk about what the bug does, it is that the mobs take huge damage from heavy attacks. And everyone who stands next to the mob will receive just crazy damage. This is especially true of the imperial city.

Are you sure you're not just getting hit with Occult Overload? So one of your team mates dies and blows you up?

when it happened to me, it seemed instant, however the sheer buffoonery of dying just because a mob was heavy attacked might not have processed in my head (so 2 seconds instead of instant, which is practically instant)

Those are rookie numbers

Heelie · May 2023

Tri focus passive is bugged, why I got out of my way to kill anyone with a lightning staff in IC at the moment, I don't care that they're just there for a daily quest or something, holding a lightning staff in IC at the moment is KOS.

jaws343 · May 2023

Heelie wrote: »

Tri focus passive is bugged, why I got out of my way to kill anyone with a lightning staff in IC at the moment, I don't care that they're just there for a daily quest or something, holding a lightning staff in IC at the moment is KOS.

Or, you know, take a normal approach. Anyone on the opposite alliances in IC is kill on sight, all the time, any build.

Heelie · May 2023

jaws343 wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

Tri focus passive is bugged, why I got out of my way to kill anyone with a lightning staff in IC at the moment, I don't care that they're just there for a daily quest or something, holding a lightning staff in IC at the moment is KOS.

Or, you know, take a normal approach. Anyone on the opposite alliances in IC is kill on sight, all the time, any build.

Nah most people just chill in IC no reason to risk your telvar, lightning staff users they're KOS.

Gaeliannas · May 2023

What exactly is the bug? Tri-Focus does exactly what it says it does and has as long as I can remember, are people just now realizing this? With the right build, never mind a crit even, heavy attacks can do some serious damage. The NPC is an enemy, players of the opposing factions are enemies, why wouldn't they get hit?

RevJJ · May 2023

Gaeliannas wrote: »

What exactly is the bug? Tri-Focus does exactly what it says it does and has as long as I can remember, are people just now realizing this? With the right build, never mind a crit even, heavy attacks can do some serious damage. The NPC is an enemy, players of the opposing factions are enemies, why wouldn't they get hit?

The issue is that battle spirit should reduce damage to players, which it does with direct attacks to players, but it doesn’t when the damage comes from tri-focus.

kringled_1 · May 2023

And if the attacker has empower, that factors into the results, even though empower is only meant to affect damage against monsters.
If you have an enemy player and a monster adjacent to each other, the damage done to each will vary enormously depending on whether the lightning heavy is connected to the player or the mob.

jaws343 · May 2023

RevJJ wrote: »

Gaeliannas wrote: »

What exactly is the bug? Tri-Focus does exactly what it says it does and has as long as I can remember, are people just now realizing this? With the right build, never mind a crit even, heavy attacks can do some serious damage. The NPC is an enemy, players of the opposing factions are enemies, why wouldn't they get hit?

The issue is that battle spirit should reduce damage to players, which it does with direct attacks to players, but it doesn’t when the damage comes from tri-focus.

It's not really tri-focus or battlespirit? Kind of, but not really.

For example: 2 players.
You heavy attack one. The damage done to that player is impacted by battle spirit and that players resistances/mitigations.
Let's say the damage that you ended up doing to player 1 was 10K.
Player 2 will take 10K damage, that it them reduced by their own resistances and mitigation as necessary. But the damage doesn't get reduced by battlespirit AGAINST player 2. That battlespirit reduction was already applied against player 1.

So, for a Player and a Monster: A couple of things when heavy attacking a mob.
Battle spirit doesn't apply because to the player because I believe they intentionally have left damage sources that deal conditional damage out of battlespirit. So, in this case, Trifocus does 100% damage based on the damage done, which in PVP is usually damage done to other players. Similar to other like effects that are also not impacted by battlespirit to avoid double dipping the battlespirit reductions.
This doesn't work out entirely right while attacking NPCs, but that would be the case for any of these similar effects.
The larger issue is Empower and Sergeants/Storm Master buffs. Especially Empower, as it boosts the damage done immensely.

All that to say, I don't think anything needs to be done with Tri-Focus or with Battlespirit mitigation. Especially with Battlespirit mitigations. What needs to happen is Empower should not function in PVP zones at all. Not just an against monsters limit, make it non functional. Maybe that part is done through Battlespirit, where it shuts off Empower.

Cast_El · May 2023

I reported this bug to ZOS months ago

rpa · May 2023

I agree it is a bug but it also appears doing exactly what the tri focus tooltip says. I expect fixing it properly is not that trivial because there are many cases to consider, splash from player hit, splash from monster hit with or without empower hitting an enemy player or non-player.

ZBH33 · May 2023

The biggest problem is groups of people deliberately bringing adds & bosses to other players.
A few days ago, while out numbered vs 15 yellows, my 3 stack were kiting on some stairs, setting up house with our healplar & waiting out for ulti. Before we could get all 3 ults up the yellow group ran off. Only to return less then 2 minutes later with about 20 mobs & boss only for them to set their HA sorcs to proc tri-focus on said pve.
75k damage to over cap resist (35k+ resistance & 3600 crit resist on all 3 of us)

Clear PvE damage in PvP is an exploit that ZOS has allowed to run rampant in IC ever since the changes to empower. While never actually acknowledging what's happening.
All should be fixed with changes when Arc class drops. But for now players in chat are telling others this kind of thing is okay. Confusing the player base since there is no official stance.

YetAnotherLinuxUser · May 2023

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

Rogue_WolfESO · May 2023

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

Adding Second voice for stop calling for HA nerfs

xDeusEJRx · May 2023

Gaeliannas wrote: »

What exactly is the bug? Tri-Focus does exactly what it says it does and has as long as I can remember, are people just now realizing this? With the right build, never mind a crit even, heavy attacks can do some serious damage. The NPC is an enemy, players of the opposing factions are enemies, why wouldn't they get hit?

Except it's not, you seem to not understand what is occuring to make this happen. The players are not using tri-focus on players. They're tri-focusing NPCS with empower. Empower is the problem here.
Empower is supposed to ONLY work on NPCS(not players), but if you combine Empower with Tri-focus you then suddenly do PVE damage from PVE mobs to players.
Battle spirit is not factoring out Empower's damage because of the tri-focus passive. That's the bug here

xDeusEJRx · May 2023

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

Jestir · May 2023

The wording needs fixed here

Tri focus needs to be fixed to not carry over the empowered buffed damage from attacking pve mobs to players in pvp.

This is an issue with how the splash damage is being calculated from the tri focus passive

YetAnotherLinuxUser · May 2023

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

well ok .

But the Police have a suggestion that may seem obvious...

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdmYMSigcLksFNiK_ORctMDengovp3kJm

Ascarl · May 2023

Does this also apply to melee splash damage?
I guess this should be the same.

Dalsinthus · May 2023

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

well ok .

But the Police have a suggestion that may seem obvious...
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdmYMSigcLksFNiK_ORctMDengovp3kJm

Good luck with that in IC where there are mobs everywhere and a HA ganker only needs about a second to nuke you with this.

xDeusEJRx · May 2023

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

well ok .

But the Police have a suggestion that may seem obvious...
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdmYMSigcLksFNiK_ORctMDengovp3kJm

Zos have stated that you shouldn't be able to nuke players from NPCS that don't understand counterplay, hence why the nerfed Plaguebreak(see the dev note)

This is literally the exact same precedent, they use mindless npcs to nuke down a player. if I wanted to I could just aggro a boss open world, run to a player I want to kill and heavy attack the boss.
So if logic dictates that plaguebreak should not be able to be put on an NPC because they lack game knowledge, you should not be able to use empower to work around battle spirit's mitigation to kill players.
If devs don't believe you should use mobs to kill players, they need to thorough and fix this interaction because there's literally no difference in the outcomes (nuking players with mindless monsters)

YetAnotherLinuxUser · May 2023

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

well ok .

But the Police have a suggestion that may seem obvious...
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdmYMSigcLksFNiK_ORctMDengovp3kJm

Zos have stated that you shouldn't be able to nuke players from NPCS that don't understand counterplay, hence why the nerfed Plaguebreak(see the dev note)

This is literally the exact same precedent, they use mindless npcs to nuke down a player. if I wanted to I could just aggro a boss open world, run to a player I want to kill and heavy attack the boss.
So if logic dictates that plaguebreak should not be able to be put on an NPC because they lack game knowledge, you should not be able to use empower to work around battle spirit's mitigation to kill players.
If devs don't believe you should use mobs to kill players, they need to thorough and fix this interaction because there's literally no difference in the outcomes (nuking players with mindless monsters)

The humor went right past you i see... please have a wonderful day.

xDeusEJRx · May 2023

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

YetAnotherLinuxUser wrote: »

Stop calling for HA nerf please and thank you

This is not a nerf to heavy attacks. This is fixing what shouldn't be happening.
The bug is coming from Empower which is only supposed to work in PVE(against monsters) and not PVP(against players). But Tri-focus is causing an interaction where PVE damage is transferring onto players(lightning staff 100% damage done passive), and ignoring the battle spirit separation for PVP.

Empower should not be buffing lightning staff heavy attacks(because it's a monster only buff), but tri-focus is making it happen. It's a clear oversight by the devs, that needs to be fixed.

well ok .

But the Police have a suggestion that may seem obvious...
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxdmYMSigcLksFNiK_ORctMDengovp3kJm

Zos have stated that you shouldn't be able to nuke players from NPCS that don't understand counterplay, hence why the nerfed Plaguebreak(see the dev note)

This is literally the exact same precedent, they use mindless npcs to nuke down a player. if I wanted to I could just aggro a boss open world, run to a player I want to kill and heavy attack the boss.
So if logic dictates that plaguebreak should not be able to be put on an NPC because they lack game knowledge, you should not be able to use empower to work around battle spirit's mitigation to kill players.
If devs don't believe you should use mobs to kill players, they need to thorough and fix this interaction because there's literally no difference in the outcomes (nuking players with mindless monsters)

The humor went right past you i see... please have a wonderful day.

Yeah I understand it's meant to be humorous, but people are using the defense of "just don't go near npcs" to defend this interaction. I was mainly explaining why this should not exist, seeing as the game devs don't like this type of behaviors.