Arcanist Builds: Magicka or Stamina?

ADarklore

I keep hearing how Magicka Arcanist has serious sustain issues and many builds I see posted are Stamina builds, most with DW. So I'm wondering what build players here are going to run when Arcanist goes Live?

OtarTheMad

If history repeats, and it usually does, magicka damage is going to be underwhelming. So because of that when I eventually make an Arcanist it’ll be stamina.

Nestor

Just roll both.

Soarora

Stamina for sure. I didn't even try magicka but my build has no sustain issues so...

BasP

I've mostly tested a Stamina build with a DW front bar and (Inferno) Staff back bar, which I enjoyed and had no sustain issues, so I'll replicate that build first.

I'll probably play as a Khajiit though and switching to a Magicka build will be easy enough (I'll only need to level both morphs of Abyssal Impact).

Turtle_Bot

Probably a hybrid build imo. Arcanist seems to lean into the hybrid playstyle with its adaptive ability costs.

dhoward5b14_ESO

Only stamina for me.
None of my builds use Fatecarver - it isn't usable in the harder content I do.

I learned early that MAG sustain is terrible. Recuperative is extremely weak - almost no help at all. SInce I don't use Fatecarver I am forced to use Tentacular as the only crux dump, but that makes MAG sustain even worse. So I dropped MAG and spent a few days building many stamina builds.

Sustain is great on all my STA builds. I tried building with Whorl or Pillar of Nirn as back bar with monster and kilt, then with arena weapon on the back bar. All got about the same DPS, but an arena back bar makes for an easier rotation, and you don't have to closely track your proc set on the back bar (i..e. don't need to swap bars just to proc a set).

All STA builds used MAG skills Tentacular, Inspired, Fulminating. This was easily sustainable using 6 medium armor and Weapon Power potions (no extra MAG sustain). STA stayed basically full so you could swap some medium armor for light. When I added a back staff with Unstable Wall, I used tri-pots (and Camo Hunter both bars for major crit chance). In that case you had to be careful not to use Tentacular early or MAG sustain could be an issue.

Most of the builds got me around 100k which is what I currently do on live using Whorl + Nirn (Rele would bump the parse I suspect but I don't use it often in content). DW/Maelstrom 2h and DW/bow both make easy rotations. DW/staff is a little busier rotation but still not difficult. I like the large AOE of wall vesrus the 5m of a bow, although stampede on the back is fun.

My bow/staff build with Unstable wall also gets 100k and will probably be used when I need a ranged build. FYI - I used the new 5s Arrow Spray on cooldown.

LunaFlora

both

EramTheLiar

So I have tested both, and keeping in mind that I am not an elite, high-skilled player, but kind of a middling one, I'd say that overall they are about the same, but there are some tactical advantages to Magicka.

This will be different if you have subconsciously mastered your rotations and don't make mistakes. I.e., if you are playing flawlessly, I suspect one build will clearly outmatch the other. But if you're just playing and screwing up occasionally, they're both about the same in terms of damage and sustain. And if you're worried about sustain problems, go breton for magicka or imperial for stamina and go with the recuperative treatise and keep it up and you'll be fine.

The advantage magicka has is that it's ranged. The main reason this is an advantage is because I find it's hard to stay in melee range in a fight with a lot of enemies because you'll be constantly repositioning yourself to get the green beam of ennervating death in a spot where you can get the most of them with as little sweeping as possible. This usually put me out of the 7m range, which meant that for my stamina character it meant firing off ranged abilities while uselessly holding dual blades or a greatsword. Staves become super useful because you can still try to weave while you're outside of the seven meter distance. Also, staves seem to be the best shot you have for taking advantage of the status effect boosts (as far as I can tell the 75% boost in triggering status effects does not apply to poison) so even if you're stamina you'll probably want at least one staff to trigger burning or concussed or... the ice one, I can't remember what it does.

That said, it didn't really seem to make much of a difference for me. Most of my attacks were building crux for the Shining Emerald Beacon of Zap, which did most of the damage, and magicka really only pulled slightly ahead there. If you're more comfortable with positioning the Gleaming Jade Spotlight of Infinite Doom while you're in the thick of melee combat (or only dealing with a few targets) the tactical advantages will be a nonissue.

TheTuSiK

Dark Elf hybdrid leaning towards stamina. Since Runeblades and Fatecarver scale from highiest max resource I don't see any problem playing 2x inferno with stamina as highier of the two resources. Just level every skill and morph, play Dark Elf or Khajit and you will be able to swap between mag and stam anytime.

ADarklore

I guess I'm trying to see where the magicka sustain problem is coming from. It appears that people seem to think that throwing in a HA during their rotation is such a DPS loss, that they'd rather nerf themselves and then complain about it. From my own personal experience running a Magcanist, I've not had a single problem with sustain, as I'm always throwing in a staff HA after my Fatecarver rotation. Am I losing some DPS, probably, but is it detrimental to my success in completing content, NO. Am I an elitists who chases scoreboards, NO.

I think that is what I'm trying to understand. Because the idea that magicka has a sustain problem is only due to people not utilizing HA's into their rotation. New players or even some existing players are going to read all this hype about Arcanist and magicka sustain problems and get the wrong impression... the sustain issues are player created because of how they are choosing to play Magicka Arcanist. You cannot sit and spam skills over and over and not even attempt to regen some of your spent resources, that is completely unrealistic, you cannot even do that on other classes. Even on my Magplar I always threw in HA's to regen resources.

So my advice for new players and non-elitist players, is try Arcanist for yourself and don't just follow what someone else says. Initially I was very concerned about Magcanist because I hate playing strictly melee builds, and I'd much rather use a staff than any melee weapon. However, I downloaded PTS and tried it for myself. I equipped the gear that I plan to use and ran dungeons, a few world bosses, and didn't have any sustain issues because I included HA's into my rotation.

EramTheLiar

It depends on what's doing the HA. Lightning staff, ok, no problem. Fire staff, it's a little annoying. Greatsword (for stamina) is super effective, slow but you get great sta return. DW is almost as slow but with pathetic stamina return.

Overall it's more fun to just not do them at all. I mean, fun is a relative term, sure, but for ME it's more fun for me to just not do them at all.

pew pew splortch zzzzzap

Soarora

ADarklore wrote: »

I guess I'm trying to see where the magicka sustain problem is coming from. It appears that people seem to think that throwing in a HA during their rotation is such a DPS loss, that they'd rather nerf themselves and then complain about it. From my own personal experience running a Magcanist, I've not had a single problem with sustain, as I'm always throwing in a staff HA after my Fatecarver rotation. Am I losing some DPS, probably, but is it detrimental to my success in completing content, NO. Am I an elitists who chases scoreboards, NO.

I think that is what I'm trying to understand. Because the idea that magicka has a sustain problem is only due to people not utilizing HA's into their rotation. New players or even some existing players are going to read all this hype about Arcanist and magicka sustain problems and get the wrong impression... the sustain issues are player created because of how they are choosing to play Magicka Arcanist. You cannot sit and spam skills over and over and not even attempt to regen some of your spent resources, that is completely unrealistic, you cannot even do that on other classes. Even on my Magplar I always threw in HA's to regen resources.

So my advice for new players and non-elitist players, is try Arcanist for yourself and don't just follow what someone else says. Initially I was very concerned about Magcanist because I hate playing strictly melee builds, and I'd much rather use a staff than any melee weapon. However, I downloaded PTS and tried it for myself. I equipped the gear that I plan to use and ran dungeons, a few world bosses, and didn't have any sustain issues because I included HA's into my rotation.

It’s more about how one builds than if they’re utilizing HA. I very rarely HA on my DPS and I do fine, even on warden which has “bad sustain”. You can also use staff on stam. I’m thinking of having both daggers and a staff for my arcanist since I find myself LA’ing air with my daggers during trash fights despite having 2H backbar. Additionally, the supposed sustain issues also goes into mag healing and healers do HA but they can only HA so much. Glad it works for you though.

Jamie_Aubrey

The way ZOS loves things, Stamina

remosito

neither. making a tank.

phaneub17_ESO

If you're a solo player and have problems with sustain, Azandar makes a great companion choice, if using nothing but Zone of Recuperation. His Zone of Recuperation can stack multiple times and the recovery effect adds up for each zone that is active. With all Quickened and Telvanni Efficiency it's possible for him to drop 2-3 stacks regularly at a time, with Light armor and Haste in the second slot he can have 4 up at once briefly every 6.3 seconds. There are diminishing returns though; 1 stack is 150 recovery as the ability states, 2 stacks is 275 (+125), 3 stacks is 375 (+100), and 4 stacks is 450 (+75). The healing done by each Zone of Recuperation does not diminish so everyone standing in it can be healed by 1552 per stack.

I reported this early in the PTS when they made Quickened additive, since they haven't fixed it I assume its intentional to stack this way from a single Azandar. I did not test it with 2 players or multiple numbers of him, I assume they just keep stacking up to 6 since each one goes down by 25 recovery each stack.

ADarklore

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

If you're a solo player and have problems with sustain, Azandar makes a great companion choice, if using nothing but Zone of Recuperation. His Zone of Recuperation can stack multiple times and the recovery effect adds up for each zone that is active. With all Quickened and Telvanni Efficiency it's possible for him to drop 2-3 stacks regularly at a time, with Light armor and Haste in the second slot he can have 4 up at once briefly every 6.3 seconds. There are diminishing returns though; 1 stack is 150 recovery as the ability states, 2 stacks is 275 (+125), 3 stacks is 375 (+100), and 4 stacks is 450 (+75). The healing done by each Zone of Recuperation does not diminish so everyone standing in it can be healed by 1552 per stack.

I reported this early in the PTS when they made Quickened additive, since they haven't fixed it I assume its intentional to stack this way from a single Azandar. I did not test it with 2 players or multiple numbers of him, I assume they just keep stacking up to 6 since each one goes down by 25 recovery each stack.

That's awesome. I've honestly never slotted that skill but may have to consider it now. Thanks for the info.

Zodiarkslayer

I'll go Magicka for sure...
A scholar, that uses books and runes for combat, doesn't strike me as a particularly fit, enduring or tough kind of guy.
So, I will either make a Breton or High Elf Arcanist.

If there is a problem with sustain there are always options. I am sure I'll be able to figure it out.

Somewhere down the line my Arcanist is going to be a Support in groups. So Magicka Arcanist is kind of a no brainer.

tohopka_eso

Solo player that uses companions and doesn't do PvP or high end stuff. Will be doing a hybrid build.

Tessitura

Magicka, its more on theme to me and I just like the idea of a warlock/wizardy planes walker. Sustain is rough but I mean, back baring a Vat resto staff with Spirit Siphon kind of fixes the issue in pve, and in pvp there is the new Rosk's set or whatever its called. From Bal Sunnar.

Honestly, with its natural crit and status bonuses I also feel like Magicka light armor builds will excel with the class in pve, with light armor giving bonus to crit and pen. Also I really want to use Runecarver's Blaze with the beam. I think it will be a good match up with the potential to proc multiple status effects on the same ability.