Dragonknight ruined PvP #feedback

SkynzRnR

Hi,
I just want to emphasize how overpowers Dragonknight are in PvP. I've put so much effort and time making my PvP build just to be unusable do to Corrosive Armor ultimate Dragonknight has, once I use my Ultimate I have little over 14000 physical and spell pen with also 6000 weapon and spell damage but since the Corrosive Armor lowers all damage to 3% of HP am very ineffective in dealing damage, this should be changed for PvP, I understand it's use on PvE content but for something like PvP it's very overpowered and should be adjusted accordingly for that.
Should also adjust Petrify skill for PvP use since it has extreme stamina drain to the oponent on the receiving and of it, combine with claw it drains over 10000 stamina which is just absurd.

Almost everyone is playing a Dragonknight in PvP and these to are some of the reason for that, there is no diversity of any kind.

Hope you have a nice day.

Syiccal

Yea its pretty much elder dk online at the this point.
It's the only class that has no weakness in pvp right now. It's supposed to be high skill cost and sustain problems but if anything dk has the best sustain of any class

SkynzRnR

I enjoyed PvP in GuildWars2 so much, its super fun and very competitive. There is no competitiveness in ESO PvP sadly. Combine DK with Vampire and you have a unkillable machine, that's not compeating, that making a circus of PvP.

Janni

Corrosive armor is strong, don't get me wrong but a lot of folks think it makes them invulnerable. It doesn't. Let's do some math

At 100k hp that would reduce the max damage they can take to 3k. Your average DK is probbaly going to have something much closer to 33k hp though, which means the max damage they can take is 1k. 20 pvers light attacking from the roof could kill that Dk in 2 seconds easily even with corrosive active because they will certainly each be dealing 1k. Believe me, I know because it has happened to me.

The big problem that some builds have against corrosive is that they build into huge one-shot attacks that are supposed to deal a lot of damage. The problem with this is that it's a huge setup with a single point of failure. If the enemy dodges, or cloaks, or corrosives, or whatever they completely negate that big attack. Personally I've noticed almost every class out there runs a lot of mitigation which means I *rarely* see attacks that go much above 1k against anyone. The problem is that the more I stacked into big tooltips the more the damage I am actually losing due to percentage mitigations

My solution to this was to start layering many many small attacks that all go off simultaneously. So for example my opening will be about 8, 9, or 10 attacks, all of which deal about 500-1k damage each. Its actually kinda cute to see a DK pop a corrosive after I open on them because they want to slow down the damage. Essentially unless they go all out on offense they have wasted their ultimate. None of my attacks will hit the cap but every burst I do will still be dealing 8k-10k damage. if anyone is wondering why rending slashes and crushing shock have been getting really popular lately, this is why. They smash right through things like warden's shimmering shield and the dk's corrosive ultimate. The numbers may look small but when you didn't have to invest as much into damage to get them and you have many numerous sources of them they really add up and percentage mitigations and damage caps have a much smaller impact on them.

Syiccal

Janni wrote: »

Corrosive armor is strong, don't get me wrong but a lot of folks think it makes them invulnerable. It doesn't. Let's do some math

At 100k hp that would reduce the max damage they can take to 3k. Your average DK is probbaly going to have something much closer to 33k hp though, which means the max damage they can take is 1k. 20 pvers light attacking from the roof could kill that Dk in 2 seconds easily even with corrosive active because they will certainly each be dealing 1k. Believe me, I know because it has happened to me.

The big problem that some builds have against corrosive is that they build into huge one-shot attacks that are supposed to deal a lot of damage. The problem with this is that it's a huge setup with a single point of failure. If the enemy dodges, or cloaks, or corrosives, or whatever they completely negate that big attack. Personally I've noticed almost every class out there runs a lot of mitigation which means I *rarely* see attacks that go much above 1k against anyone. The problem is that the more I stacked into big tooltips the more the damage I am actually losing due to percentage mitigations

My solution to this was to start layering many many small attacks that all go off simultaneously. So for example my opening will be about 8, 9, or 10 attacks, all of which deal about 500-1k damage each. Its actually kinda cute to see a DK pop a corrosive after I open on them because they want to slow down the damage. Essentially unless they go all out on offense they have wasted their ultimate. None of my attacks will hit the cap but every burst I do will still be dealing 8k-10k damage. if anyone is wondering why rending slashes and crushing shock have been getting really popular lately, this is why. They smash right through things like warden's shimmering shield and the dk's corrosive ultimate. The numbers may look small but when you didn't have to invest as much into damage to get them and you have many numerous sources of them they really add up and percentage mitigations and damage caps have a much smaller impact on them.

Which is why passiv heal sets are better imo than mitigation sets..

Janni

Syiccal wrote: »

Which is why passiv heal sets are better imo than mitigation sets..

And that's a fair opinion to have. They work well for exactly the situations I mentioned... where lots of people are plinking you for little damage or one person is layering a bunch of damage. But it wouldn't do nearly as much against a ganker with a huge burst. It's all about knowing what your builds strengths and weakness are and trying to avoid the situations where they function poorly and setup situations where they perform well.

bachpain

The only problem is at this same time they have also stripped you of your defenses and can rip you to shreds as well. It isn't just the defensive power, but the offensive strength of the ultimate mixed with the passive gain of health and both resources upon casting it. There is no downside.

Janni

Does everything need to have a downside? Why cant we have ultimates that feel like it? Anyway if there were any balancing that I think could applied to it that would make it seem more fair and still retain it's feel it would be to disable ultimate generation for the duration of the effect.

bachpain

The answer to your question is the reason DK dominates everything right now lol

Heresyall

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Vetixio

Someone said this before on another thread but Magma Shell should have the mitigation and Corrosive should have the penetration, because as it is now it is a God mode button and can have very little counterplay in some situations. Hybridisation has buffed DKs and NBs the most and a lot of the problems come down to Hybridisation and broken sets in PvP such as Dark Convergence, Plaguebreak etc.

DrNukenstein

As someone who despises playing against DKs, I started playing one a little over a week ago.

I am doing the meta ult-gen build and I play around my corrosive armor. And it is so good.

The move gives you a second wind with it's significant resource return on activation, it makes you conventionally invincible, It lets you dump stat penetration and sustain to maximize your tool tips. It's awesome.

I don't use leap, because I prefer the nano-machines armor but Leap is rad too, arguably even stronger. It's massive AOE damage, cc, and gap closer/lag button. You can use inhale before, and use whirling blades after to make a bomb on a level not seen on this planet in 78 years. Instant team fight winner.

With a defensive back bar, the class can turtle for ages until they hit their next ult window. This is IMO what put's them over the top. They can build for ultimate generation while dump statting penetration and sustain, then purely play around those ultimate windows. They pop ult, get their second wind, and even though it looked a lot like you were winning, you just lost.

This is also their big weakness. If you kite the DK during corrosive, they won't have much ult afterwards and will have almost a full minute where they are weak. If you made them break free and/or roll a few times during corrosive, they will be low on stamina after due to their active sustain being largely based on ultimate activation. If you back off when the dk starts turtling, you'll get away before they turn it around with their ultimate. A DK that's out of gas and far away from their ultimate has no gas until they can fire their ultimate. It's a simple and powerful play pattern that has to be respected like a vet dungeon mechanic, but it's a lot more predictable than playstyles that don't have to play around their ultimate availability.

TL/DR DK's are weakest when the effects of their ultimate wear off and are biding time for their next ultimate. Trying to finish off a turtling DK is a mistake. Whether the class is truly OP or extremely simple and effective is up for debate.

GetAgrippa

I love my dk and it's my favorite pvp class along with warden. Having said that, Zos needs to nerf Corrosive. It's needed this ever since the hybrid changes. Why they refuse, I've no idea. It's absurd.

SkynzRnR

Janni wrote: »

Corrosive armor is strong, don't get me wrong but a lot of folks think it makes them invulnerable. It doesn't. Let's do some math

At 100k hp that would reduce the max damage they can take to 3k. Your average DK is probbaly going to have something much closer to 33k hp though, which means the max damage they can take is 1k. 20 pvers light attacking from the roof could kill that Dk in 2 seconds easily even with corrosive active because they will certainly each be dealing 1k. Believe me, I know because it has happened to me.

The big problem that some builds have against corrosive is that they build into huge one-shot attacks that are supposed to deal a lot of damage. The problem with this is that it's a huge setup with a single point of failure. If the enemy dodges, or cloaks, or corrosives, or whatever they completely negate that big attack. Personally I've noticed almost every class out there runs a lot of mitigation which means I *rarely* see attacks that go much above 1k against anyone. The problem is that the more I stacked into big tooltips the more the damage I am actually losing due to percentage mitigations

My solution to this was to start layering many many small attacks that all go off simultaneously. So for example my opening will be about 8, 9, or 10 attacks, all of which deal about 500-1k damage each. Its actually kinda cute to see a DK pop a corrosive after I open on them because they want to slow down the damage. Essentially unless they go all out on offense they have wasted their ultimate. None of my attacks will hit the cap but every burst I do will still be dealing 8k-10k damage. if anyone is wondering why rending slashes and crushing shock have been getting really popular lately, this is why. They smash right through things like warden's shimmering shield and the dk's corrosive ultimate. The numbers may look small but when you didn't have to invest as much into damage to get them and you have many numerous sources of them they really add up and percentage mitigations and damage caps have a much smaller impact on them.

I'm sure you deliberate forgot to mention how much health recovery DK's have, even with out that vigor will just keep out healing all the damage they take during Corrosive Armor ultimate uptime, making them take basically No Damage especially in BG's but DK's are just the start of things wrong with PvP in ESO. It's like a circus.

SkynzRnR

Heresyall wrote: »

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Magsorcs are strong, but not stupidly overpowered like DK, hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game, no real diversity, it's sad. PvP in ESO is dead for me, I'll keep playing PvP in GW2 it's a night and day difference, developers actually put some effort in balancing classes for PvP in GW2 unlike in ESO where developers just take the money and sit all day doing nothing about balance in game for the PvP, they just make new bugs each update.

Iriidius

SkynzRnR wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Magsorcs are strong, but not stupidly overpowered like DK, hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game, no real diversity, it's sad. PvP in ESO is dead for me, I'll keep playing PvP in GW2 it's a night and day difference, developers actually put some effort in balancing classes for PvP in GW2 unlike in ESO where developers just take the money and sit all day doing nothing about balance in game for the PvP, they just make new bugs each update.

„hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game“
Do you have any source/proof for this? On PC EU DKs arent more common than other classes except necro.
Corrosive armor doesnt make immortal at all, when you get zerged down you still die really fast, most dmg in zerg comes from low ticks anyway. I often get instakilled in corrosive, today i was stunned in corrosive with full health and killed by 4 bad zerglings before i could break free.
Many nbs are not even cloaking/kiting from corrosive but just (block-)healing threw corrosive leap spam than oneshotting the „unkillable dk after corrosive ends.
Bow/Stamsorcs will just kite the dk and pressure kill him with bound armor, masterdual wield, vateshraan destro, way of fire, relequen and/or maarselok/Zaan.
Jabs and radiant destruction also have multiple ticks and deal decent dmg threw corrosive.
The penetration without armor will not be worth using, onslaugh also gives full penetration and burst ulti dmg for every class for 150 ultimate but noone uses it.

El_Borracho

SkynzRnR wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Magsorcs are strong, but not stupidly overpowered like DK, hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game, no real diversity, it's sad. PvP in ESO is dead for me, I'll keep playing PvP in GW2 it's a night and day difference, developers actually put some effort in balancing classes for PvP in GW2 unlike in ESO where developers just take the money and sit all day doing nothing about balance in game for the PvP, they just make new bugs each update.

This is how it is all the time in PVP. Its a rotating meta. Wardens, necros, nightblades, etc. all take their turn at the top then get knocked off. You should have been here for the Zaan + Elf Bane sorc builds.

The funny part about the DK hate is that this is the first time since I started playing in 2017 that DKs have been this powerful. Yes, there was that short stint 2 years ago when Mag DKs rose to power, but not like this. I love it. The DK is actually super fun to play.

Syiccal

El_Borracho wrote: »

SkynzRnR wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Magsorcs are strong, but not stupidly overpowered like DK, hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game, no real diversity, it's sad. PvP in ESO is dead for me, I'll keep playing PvP in GW2 it's a night and day difference, developers actually put some effort in balancing classes for PvP in GW2 unlike in ESO where developers just take the money and sit all day doing nothing about balance in game for the PvP, they just make new bugs each update.

This is how it is all the time in PVP. Its a rotating meta. Wardens, necros, nightblades, etc. all take their turn at the top then get knocked off. You should have been here for the Zaan + Elf Bane sorc builds.

The funny part about the DK hate is that this is the first time since I started playing in 2017 that DKs have been this powerful. Yes, there was that short stint 2 years ago when Mag DKs rose to power, but not like this. I love it. The DK is actually super fun to play.

Fun yes rewarding I'm not sure, when you win fights it's mostly due to the class being massively op in comparison l, they literally don't have a weakness right now, along with the best dots, best burst, best cc, best ults, best sustain

Beffagorn

Everyone can slap dw+frost staff as a vampire and do the exact same thing, the only difference is Corrosive Armor.

Nothing to do whatsoever with DK. Just nerf Corrosive into the ground and be done with it.

Mind you, the exact same problem builds will remain. Except it's going to be stamsorcs that are the top dog instead.

casparian

DK is in a great place. It's what every class should feel like, and what most classes have felt like at one point or another in the game's history.

This game has had a huge problem for the better part of a decade at this point: ZOS hates builds that perform synergistically and feel fun to play, and do their best to nerf the bejeezus out of any build that feels that way. But they always miss some for a patch cycle or two, leaving just a couple builds feeling amazing to play compared to the cardboard noddlefest that most builds feel like. This creates a situation where players of other builds rightly feel that this isn't a fair situation, and demand ZOS nerf the remaining cool builds until ZOS actually does it. Now rinse and repeat the cycle for whatever build works well next, patch after patch.

xylena_lazarow

Nerfs to all the non-dk classes is what ruined it. Enough nerfs, buff the other classes up to DK's level.

El_Borracho

Syiccal wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

SkynzRnR wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Dragonknight is totally overpowered and is too easy to play for what it can achieve in PvP (compared to magsorc for exemple)

Magsorcs are strong, but not stupidly overpowered like DK, hance why 60% of all players in PvP is DK and other 40% is divided between other classes in game, no real diversity, it's sad. PvP in ESO is dead for me, I'll keep playing PvP in GW2 it's a night and day difference, developers actually put some effort in balancing classes for PvP in GW2 unlike in ESO where developers just take the money and sit all day doing nothing about balance in game for the PvP, they just make new bugs each update.

This is how it is all the time in PVP. Its a rotating meta. Wardens, necros, nightblades, etc. all take their turn at the top then get knocked off. You should have been here for the Zaan + Elf Bane sorc builds.

The funny part about the DK hate is that this is the first time since I started playing in 2017 that DKs have been this powerful. Yes, there was that short stint 2 years ago when Mag DKs rose to power, but not like this. I love it. The DK is actually super fun to play.

Fun yes rewarding I'm not sure, when you win fights it's mostly due to the class being massively op in comparison l, they literally don't have a weakness right now, along with the best dots, best burst, best cc, best ults, best sustain

Maybe, but to me this is "you can't please everyone all the time." If I was a player who spent months dominating on a warden, just to be outdone by a DK, I might be a little bitter. But now they know what it is like to go up against a class that is/was OP because of class skills unavailable to others.

This is PVP. When I started, the nightblade was the undisputed king. Its a shell of what it used to be. One day it will be back.

El_Borracho

Beffagorn wrote: »

Everyone can slap dw+frost staff as a vampire and do the exact same thing, the only difference is Corrosive Armor.

Nothing to do whatsoever with DK. Just nerf Corrosive into the ground and be done with it.

Mind you, the exact same problem builds will remain. Except it's going to be stamsorcs that are the top dog instead.

Most of the players I kill with my DK are with the Leap. Corrosive is strong, and its a nice "oh no" bail out when you fall behind in a 1 v X, but only if you have players that want to hang around and experience it.

pedrogonzalez

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

Beffagorn

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

Lack of knowledge about magma armor aside, why would anyone ever use Fossilize over Talons if it's just a root lmao? To trigger Helping Hands and Mountain's Blessing?

1k more magicka, single target, no synergy, no maim/dot, less damage, less duration.

If you are going to suggest changes, at least read the kit available to the class before doing so.

pedrogonzalez

Beffagorn wrote: »

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

Lack of knowledge about magma armor aside, why would anyone ever use Fossilize over Talons if it's just a root lmao? To trigger Helping Hands and Mountain's Blessing?

1k more magicka, single target, no synergy, no maim/dot, less damage, less duration.

If you are going to suggest changes, at least read the kit available to the class before doing so.

If you can’t propose something yourself, then stop spaying poison around at first.
Dragon knight now at that position, that if zos delete this class 90% of players would be glad of that change.

TechMaybeHic

Janni wrote: »

Corrosive armor is strong, don't get me wrong but a lot of folks think it makes them invulnerable. It doesn't. Let's do some math

At 100k hp that would reduce the max damage they can take to 3k. Your average DK is probbaly going to have something much closer to 33k hp though, which means the max damage they can take is 1k. 20 pvers light attacking from the roof could kill that Dk in 2 seconds easily even with corrosive active because they will certainly each be dealing 1k. Believe me, I know because it has happened to me.

The big problem that some builds have against corrosive is that they build into huge one-shot attacks that are supposed to deal a lot of damage. The problem with this is that it's a huge setup with a single point of failure. If the enemy dodges, or cloaks, or corrosives, or whatever they completely negate that big attack. Personally I've noticed almost every class out there runs a lot of mitigation which means I *rarely* see attacks that go much above 1k against anyone. The problem is that the more I stacked into big tooltips the more the damage I am actually losing due to percentage mitigations

My solution to this was to start layering many many small attacks that all go off simultaneously. So for example my opening will be about 8, 9, or 10 attacks, all of which deal about 500-1k damage each. Its actually kinda cute to see a DK pop a corrosive after I open on them because they want to slow down the damage. Essentially unless they go all out on offense they have wasted their ultimate. None of my attacks will hit the cap but every burst I do will still be dealing 8k-10k damage. if anyone is wondering why rending slashes and crushing shock have been getting really popular lately, this is why. They smash right through things like warden's shimmering shield and the dk's corrosive ultimate. The numbers may look small but when you didn't have to invest as much into damage to get them and you have many numerous sources of them they really add up and percentage mitigations and damage caps have a much smaller impact on them.

This is all for nothing if a DK has HOTs. Or maras which eliminates all layered damage you're doing. And without those; while you're trying to kill a DK with a thousand paper cuts as they just don't stand there looking at you funny while you parse on them apparently; they are ignoring your resists and hitting you with their auto damage attack FOO alone for 3k while they get ready to do anything else also souped up because they don't have to build for penetration like every other class. Kind of useless when you fight a DK but yet you will need it for when you have to fight other classes; lord forbid anyone bother running one



There's no way around how OP corrosive is. They should just start with that and leave the rest alone and see how it goes. They won't though. They tend to do clusters of things, which is why there is huge balance swings

Galeriano

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

Beffagorn wrote: »

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

Lack of knowledge about magma armor aside, why would anyone ever use Fossilize over Talons if it's just a root lmao? To trigger Helping Hands and Mountain's Blessing?

1k more magicka, single target, no synergy, no maim/dot, less damage, less duration.

If you are going to suggest changes, at least read the kit available to the class before doing so.

If you can’t propose something yourself, then stop spaying poison around at first.
Dragon knight now at that position, that if zos delete this class 90% of players would be glad of that change.

Turning strong usefull abilities into a compelty uselesss ones is like proposing nothing.

CGPsaint

No one class should be able to have 40K+ health, max resistances, the best burst heal in the game, AND be able to burst you down in 2 seconds. DKs don't have to give to take. They literally get the best of offense, defense, and healing. Meanwhile MagSorcs either have to be glass cannons to deal damage, or else build into shield stacking/defense and then hit like a wet noodle.

Janni

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

Then nobody would ever use either morph and everyone will be here later complaining about standard of might and take flight.

El_Borracho

pedrogonzalez wrote: »

And again my suggestion to fix dk:
Corrosive armor: gives you full pen, but you also get 20% incoming damage more
Magma armor (or what that useless morph named): all incoming damage reduced to 3% of you health, but while active you deal 20% damage less.
Fossilize: now only applies roots
Shattering rocks: as it is.
With changes like this we just have a strong balanced class

So take away 3 of the 4 skills that make the DK what it is, while turning a great ultimate into 2 useless ultimates, and making Fossilize less effective than a light attack. How is this balance?