Make Recipes Learned Account-Wide

Shagreth

I don't know how many are on the same boat as me, but I'm having a hard time maining another character because my main is loaded with very rare recipes etc. Completion is something I can somewhat deal with when it comes to quests and the like, but crafting is not. I would have to spend millions upon millions to learn the stuff my main has. Having a main in this game feels like a curse sometimes, hence why I felt that we should have a class change token, but since the company doesn't seem to want to make one for us -- how about, at the very least, make recipes account-wide? I see no good reason not to. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno Certainly this would be feasible, less technical difficulties. In my opinion, this should make changing mains a much easier process for some people.

tmbrinks

Why does the alt need to know the recipes? You can share all food/potions/furnishings account wide. With AwA there's no achievement for learning the recipes any more per character.

Recipe knowledge is used to determine master writ drop rate for individual characters. Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.

We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

Melivar

I have one crafting main which is my original character but is not who i will grab to do certain activities. Has done the most quests has the most available skill points.

Then I learn provisioning recipes on everyone as I get them but don't spend gold to do so for the increase chance of master writs.

Not really a reason for all your characters to know everything let alone the skill points unless you grind those as well to make use of knowing everything. Recipes and motifs are about the only thing of value that can be easily farmed for gold and that would go away if everyone had the same knowledge..

LatentBuzzard

tmbrinks wrote: »

Why does the alt need to know the recipes?

tmbrinks wrote: »

Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.

So it's not important for them to learn the recipes on their alts but it is important not to invalidate the fact that other people have learnt the recipes on their alts ? I'm seeing a bit of a disconnect between those two statements.

tmbrinks wrote: »

We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

The slope ends when there's less pointless grind that serves no purpose other than to be a grind ?

tmbrinks

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Why does the alt need to know the recipes?

tmbrinks wrote: »

Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.

So it's not important for them to learn the recipes on their alts but it is important not to invalidate the fact that other people have learnt the recipes on their alts ? I'm seeing a bit of a disconnect between those two statements.

tmbrinks wrote: »

We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

The slope ends when there's less pointless grind that serves no purpose other than to be a grind ?

If their "reason" for wanting the alt to learn the recipes is "so it's easier to make food", then they would be invalidating the work other players put into learning more recipes for the master writ drops.

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

The slope ends when there's less pointless grind that serves no purpose other than to be a grind ?

I fail to understand how this is "pointless" grind. There is a definitive, character based, benefit to learning recipes on other characters. You can either choose to do so, or not. But you are not locked out of having access to any of those items, since they can just be crafted on your "main" and used by any character on your account, and even sold to any other player in the game.

Tandor

No thanks, too many things have been made account-wide already to satisfy those who want multiple characters but who don't want to play through the levelling up content fully with them. That's a perfectly valid playstyle but it's time now to retain the remaining character-specific things for those who want to play the full game with their multiple characters which is an equally valid playstyle. The game used to be nicely balanced between the two playstyles, now it's pretty much gone in one direction only, and it doesn't need to go even further in that direction, nor should it.

Shagreth

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, too many things have been made account-wide already to satisfy those who want multiple characters but who don't want to play through the levelling up content fully with them. That's a perfectly valid playstyle but it's time now to retain the remaining character-specific things for those who want to play the full game with their multiple characters which is an equally valid playstyle. The game used to be nicely balanced between the two playstyles, now it's pretty much gone in one direction only, and it doesn't need to go even further in that direction, nor should it.

I've yet to see a good argument over the years regarding account-wide stuff. It's always 'my immersion', 'but the economy!', then someone will come and make a hyperbolic statement of the likes 'what's next, account wide XP?' or some other straw man argument. How about the majority of the people which are actively working and have very limited playtime? This is the majority of the ESO population, certainly not a teenager or a pensioner with all the time in the world. Making recipes account-wide would literally hurt no-one or threaten any play style.

The game is in dire need of some modernization, respectfully.. and I'm sorry to say, but opinions like yours are holding it back.

dinokstrunz

Not needed.

Shagreth

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recipe knowledge is used to determine master writ drop rate for individual characters. Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.
We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

They can keep motif knowledge out, I'm mostly talking about profession crafting. (i.e. furnishings, cooking recipes etc.) Still, the motif number affecting writ chance is rather silly.

ArchangelIsraphel

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Why does the alt need to know the recipes?

tmbrinks wrote: »

Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.

So it's not important for them to learn the recipes on their alts but it is important not to invalidate the fact that other people have learnt the recipes on their alts ? I'm seeing a bit of a disconnect between those two statements.

tmbrinks wrote: »

We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

The slope ends when there's less pointless grind that serves no purpose other than to be a grind ?

The point is, you don't NEED to have all the recipes on every character or grind them out, but for those who chose to do this and put the effort (and the gold) into doing so, should not have their efforts rendered useless. (You know, they way people who had multiple hard earned achievements had their efforts made useless by AWA)

Let's keep some sense of individual character progression, please.

tmbrinks

Shagreth wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Recipe knowledge is used to determine master writ drop rate for individual characters. Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.
We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

They can keep motif knowledge out, I'm mostly talking about profession crafting. (i.e. furnishings, cooking recipes etc.) Still, the motif number affecting writ chance is rather silly.

But recipes do explicitly affect the drop rate for provisioning master writs. That's what I'm referring to.

Kendaric

There's more than enough stuff accountwide already and there is no need of adding more to that.

Tandor

Shagreth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, too many things have been made account-wide already to satisfy those who want multiple characters but who don't want to play through the levelling up content fully with them. That's a perfectly valid playstyle but it's time now to retain the remaining character-specific things for those who want to play the full game with their multiple characters which is an equally valid playstyle. The game used to be nicely balanced between the two playstyles, now it's pretty much gone in one direction only, and it doesn't need to go even further in that direction, nor should it.

I've yet to see a good argument over the years regarding account-wide stuff. It's always 'my immersion', 'but the economy!', then someone will come and make a hyperbolic statement of the likes 'what's next, account wide XP?' or some other straw man argument. How about the majority of the people which are actively working and have very limited playtime? This is the majority of the ESO population, certainly not a teenager or a pensioner with all the time in the world. Making recipes account-wide would literally hurt no-one or threaten any play style.

The game is in dire need of some modernization, respectfully.. and I'm sorry to say, but opinions like yours are holding it back.

Every time things that could previously be earned by individual characters are made account-wide that does hurt players or threaten their playstyle. Once a character has found an account-wide recipe it's another reason not to play his other characters because there's no point in them finding that recipe.

There's a very simple "good argument", and it is promoted every time demands are made for things to be account-wide. It's that a lot of players don't stick to a single character or want to create endgame alts with no time spent on character development, they want to run multiple characters fully through the game as equal individuals. I have always accepted that not all players have the time or inclination to repeat content that they find a grind, but lots of players do have the time or simply aren't interested in rushing characters to endgame and don't find those things a grind. That's why a balanced approach with some things suited to one playstyle and other things suited to the other playstyle has been so beneficial over the years, until it started shifting all one way.

Responses like "what's next, account wide XP?" are actually slightly differently worded to how they're usually put and address the specific point that comes up in these discussions about everything being done by the player and not by their character(s). I have personally given the response "then why aren't you also asking for account-wide XP?" because it seems perfectly logical that if a player thinks he completed a quest then for consistency of his argument he ought not to expect another character to have to complete it, and if any achievement is shared then so should the XP be.

Of course, players don't ask for account-wide XP and it seems to me that the only bits of the game that they do want account-wide are those bits they personally don't enjoy and/or don't want to repeat. Repetition generally cannot be avoided in MMOs which by their very nature involve repeating content and those wanting to avoid doing so for the bits they don't like are usually those primarily involved in endlessly repeating battlegrounds, sieges, dungeons and trials because those are the things they do enjoy. Well, it so happens that the other things like crafting, questing, achievement hunting, and exploring etc are what a lot of other players enjoy! That's why a balanced approach has always allowed both styles of play to appeal to all players equally.

Shagreth

"Tandor wrote: »

Every time things that could previously be earned by individual characters are made account-wide that does hurt players or threaten their playstyle. Once a character has found an account-wide recipe it's another reason not to play his other characters because there's no point in them finding that recipe.

I'd agree if it was any other game, but the acquisition, rarity, number and overall system aren't exactly concise, and I'm not sure anyone in here would want to go looting X cave with furnishings for a 0.1% Telvanni recipe for weeks on end, waiting to reset then rinse & repeat, or pickpocket, you name it. Yes, there are addons to compress that info and make a nice sum of what you know, where you can search even from one character -- but let's be realistic, this isn't exactly a good or ideal design.

A system where a recipe is learned and every character can use said recipe (provided they have the skill for it) would be far superior.

Tandor

Shagreth wrote: »

"Tandor wrote: »

Every time things that could previously be earned by individual characters are made account-wide that does hurt players or threaten their playstyle. Once a character has found an account-wide recipe it's another reason not to play his other characters because there's no point in them finding that recipe.

I'd agree if it was any other game, but the acquisition, rarity, number and overall system aren't exactly concise, and I'm not sure anyone in here would want to go looting X cave with furnishings for a 0.1% Telvanni recipe for weeks on end, waiting to reset then rinse & repeat, or pickpocket, you name it. Yes, there are addons to compress that info and make a nice sum of what you know, where you can search even from one character -- but let's be realistic, this isn't exactly a good or ideal design.

A system where a recipe is learned and every character can use said recipe (provided they have the skill for it) would be far superior.

I can understand that for a very rare high endgame recipe, but unfortunately making all recipes account-wide would also mean a simple low level recipe would no longer be useful for a low level alt, further reducing the playability of multiple characters for those who want to play the full game with them, while also removing some of the purpose and sense of achievement in higher level characters finding those rare endgame recipes as they can only usefully be obtained once.

Shagreth

Tandor wrote: »

I can understand that for a very rare high endgame recipe, but unfortunately making all recipes account-wide would also mean a simple low level recipe would no longer be useful for a low level alt, further reducing the playability of multiple characters for those who want to play the full game with them, while also removing some of the purpose and sense of achievement in higher level characters finding those rare endgame recipes as they can only usefully be obtained once.

I mean, if people leveling their alt get a sense of achievement after looting the recipe of Green Salad for the 100th time, then I rest my case. Unfortunately, ESO is a game of extremes, anything worth something is very rare and we're talking about thousands upon thousands of recipes, schematics, you name it. An account wide system with a proper search feature would make everyone's lives easier. It's a hill to die on for me. We can agree to disagree and move on.

Amottica

tmbrinks wrote: »

Why does the alt need to know the recipes? You can share all food/potions/furnishings account wide. With AwA there's no achievement for learning the recipes any more per character.

Recipe knowledge is used to determine master writ drop rate for individual characters. Your proposal would be invalidating years of work from those that have learned recipes on alts for those drops.

We already lost tons of time spent when they introduced AwA... when does the slippery slope end?

I agree that this is so unnecessary. It is far too easy to craft stacks of food and bev for the entire account as it is. Though AvA has nothing to do with it. It boils down to the crown store.

WiseSky

The Idea of making my Arcanist as a new char and them learning recipes is a large part of the fun.

Elsonso

Nope.

Without the requisite skill, the recipes are pointless. The skill is not account wide, so recipes do not need to be account wide.

UNSeki

The argument that characted based features shouldn't be made account-wide because older players went through the grind before is not good, it has never been. You're just defending tortuous grind because you were forced to do it. It doesn't justify the grind, only tries to place one group's feelings over the other.

One could rather look at things objectively and try to bring up solid reasons why this would affect the game negatively for current players. Even from a business perspective, ZOS has an interest with those who are actively playing the game right now.

But there is indeed one such argument to be made that I can see, and that is: in-game economy. Unlike leads, recipes are items that take limited inventory space and which can be sold, traded, etc. But if everyone had to look for recipes only once per account, then fewer of the rarer ones would be sold, because fewer people would be looking for recipes and getting surplus amounts of them. So players would be making less gold from selling recipes in general, which would decrease our gold sinks for some and income for others.

I personally don't think this is good enough of a reason to force a pointless grind over the rest of us (it is pointless, since any items crafted with recipes you can use with one character can be shared with other characters. Grinding is thus only a waste of time for something that could be made more convenient), but it's an argument to be made.

BaalMelqartu

I would love it if recipes would be account wide.

Personally, I dislike combat, builds, etc being too "samesy" in this game but things like recipes? It's endless (to me) to get all recipes, furnishing plans, etc on my crafter. I can't even imagine having any desire to do so on my alts.

That being said, in this and in other threads, to my absolute amazement, I have discovered there are people out there that think learning this stuff on ALL their characters separately is fun and actually adds something to the game. While I can't fathom this mentality, I respect them as players so I'm fine with things staying the way they are. It's not THAT big a deal to me so I'll be fine keeping all the education on my crafter. They can continue making everyone's meal and furnishings and gear. It's a "pick your battles" sort of thing for me and this one isn't worth it.

That being said, this point makes no sense to me: "Without the requisite skill, the recipes are pointless. The skill is not account wide, so recipes do not need to be account wide."

All of my characters do their writs, all of my characters are maxed out on skills. Even if they weren't, I'd still be able to learn provisioning recipes on them. They just wouldn't be able to use them until they have gained sufficient skill. I suppose this point DOES make sense though if you don't level up crafting skills at all on your alts.

Necrotech_Master

i personally only feel like i need to learn crafting stuff on the 1 toon i do any crafting with

i dont do crafting on my other toons cause i already have a toon that can craft

im far more annoyed at how they did companions (an explicit account unlock that you need to also unlock per character) that provides far more use than crafting recipes

Tandor

UNSeki wrote: »

The argument that characted based features shouldn't be made account-wide because older players went through the grind before is not good, it has never been. You're just defending tortuous grind because you were forced to do it. It doesn't justify the grind, only tries to place one group's feelings over the other.

It's nothing to do with "because older players went through the grind before", it's to do with the fact that many players of all ages want to play the game multiple times, they do it in offline games like Skyrim (and other, including non-TES, games) and they do it in MMORPGs like ESO among others. They do it because they never see progressing characters through the content as a grind, rather as something they enjoy. They will do it in different ways each time, because it's a role-playing game and each of their characters is different.

They respect the fact that some other players approach the game differently, they would just like those players to respect the way they approach the game and not assert false reasons for why they want to preserve a balance that enables both them and the other players to follow their respective approaches to the game.

I_killed_Vivec

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i personally only feel like i need to learn crafting stuff on the 1 toon i do any crafting with

i dont do crafting on my other toons cause i already have a toon that can craft

im far more annoyed at how they did companions (an explicit account unlock that you need to also unlock per character) that provides far more use than crafting recipes

It's not about crafting - yes, have a crafter toon that knows all the recipes, holds all the ingredients, provides all the food and drink for other toons.

But this is about writs, and knowledge.

If one toon is a master crafter then should all your other toons get that too? Should they have equal access to writs, without learning recipes (or potions, or motifs, or traits)?

If recipes are AWA then how soon before it's rune knowledge, reagent knowledge, motif and trait knowledge are all AWA?

The OPs argument seems to be "I did it on one, then why not all?".

So why not "My magDK should be level 50 in dual wield, just like my stamDK is. I learnt it once, why learn it again?"

But then you get into money... Wanna buy the skyshards one toon has found? Wanna buy the Undaunted skill line one toon completed?

Sure, but it will cost you... real money.

Necrotech_Master

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i personally only feel like i need to learn crafting stuff on the 1 toon i do any crafting with

i dont do crafting on my other toons cause i already have a toon that can craft

im far more annoyed at how they did companions (an explicit account unlock that you need to also unlock per character) that provides far more use than crafting recipes

It's not about crafting - yes, have a crafter toon that knows all the recipes, holds all the ingredients, provides all the food and drink for other toons.

But this is about writs, and knowledge.

If one toon is a master crafter then should all your other toons get that too? Should they have equal access to writs, without learning recipes (or potions, or motifs, or traits)?

If recipes are AWA then how soon before it's rune knowledge, reagent knowledge, motif and trait knowledge are all AWA?

The OPs argument seems to be "I did it on one, then why not all?".

So why not "My magDK should be level 50 in dual wield, just like my stamDK is. I learnt it once, why learn it again?"

But then you get into money... Wanna buy the skyshards one toon has found? Wanna buy the Undaunted skill line one toon completed?

Sure, but it will cost you... real money.

i dont do writs, and dont care about the knowledge on my other toons lol

materials are in craft bag so accessible regardless of toon

i certainly dont bother wasting time doing trait research on my alts that dont do crafting either, nor bother learning reagents or runes, because none of them are crafters lol, i have a toon that handles that when i need it

motif knowledge is kind of account wide, if you only access it from the outfit station, you need to learn the motif once on any toon to unlock it in outfits for all of your toons

i personally dont really care if crafting knowledge is account wide or not, i already have 1 toon that is my master crafter, and i flat out dont do any crafting on other toons

i also refuse to pay money for stuff i can earn in game (skill lines, skyshards, mount training, etc)

so im not entirely sure if you meant to reply to my post lol, i only complained about the companions because you do their quest to unlock them in the collections menu (where all account wide unlocks go), and yet they are still restricted use on each character until you do their zone POI quest

kargen27

Shagreth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

No thanks, too many things have been made account-wide already to satisfy those who want multiple characters but who don't want to play through the levelling up content fully with them. That's a perfectly valid playstyle but it's time now to retain the remaining character-specific things for those who want to play the full game with their multiple characters which is an equally valid playstyle. The game used to be nicely balanced between the two playstyles, now it's pretty much gone in one direction only, and it doesn't need to go even further in that direction, nor should it.

I've yet to see a good argument over the years regarding account-wide stuff. It's always 'my immersion', 'but the economy!', then someone will come and make a hyperbolic statement of the likes 'what's next, account wide XP?' or some other straw man argument. How about the majority of the people which are actively working and have very limited playtime? This is the majority of the ESO population, certainly not a teenager or a pensioner with all the time in the world. Making recipes account-wide would literally hurt no-one or threaten any play style.
The game is in dire need of some modernization, respectfully.. and I'm sorry to say, but opinions like yours are holding it back.

I've presented several good arguments against account wide stuff. Many others have as well. You choose to either ignore or forget these arguments.
There has been a good argument in this thread in regard to, "Making recipes account-wide would literally hurt no-one or threaten any play style." It would have impact on the economy in two ways.

"How about the majority of the people which are actively working and have very limited playtime?"

They shouldn't be given special consideration. If you want the rewards play the game. Others with more time to play will always have a better chance of getting certain things first. Nature of playing the game. Eventually those who can't play as often will get there.
MMOs thrive when three things are present. New content, repeated content and a variety of content. More characters mean more repeated content and likely more variety being played. Account wide things draw away from repeating content and that is not healthy for the long term health of the game. We know this from the threads where players state I just finished <content/achievement> now what?
Players saying no to more account wide things are not holding the game back. They are making sure the game is fun and thriving for many years to come.

TaSheen

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i personally only feel like i need to learn crafting stuff on the 1 toon i do any crafting with

i dont do crafting on my other toons cause i already have a toon that can craft

im far more annoyed at how they did companions (an explicit account unlock that you need to also unlock per character) that provides far more use than crafting recipes

It's not about crafting - yes, have a crafter toon that knows all the recipes, holds all the ingredients, provides all the food and drink for other toons.

But this is about writs, and knowledge.

If one toon is a master crafter then should all your other toons get that too? Should they have equal access to writs, without learning recipes (or potions, or motifs, or traits)?

If recipes are AWA then how soon before it's rune knowledge, reagent knowledge, motif and trait knowledge are all AWA?

The OPs argument seems to be "I did it on one, then why not all?".

So why not "My magDK should be level 50 in dual wield, just like my stamDK is. I learnt it once, why learn it again?"

But then you get into money... Wanna buy the skyshards one toon has found? Wanna buy the Undaunted skill line one toon completed?

Sure, but it will cost you... real money.

So.... I'm on record as not caring two hoots about achievements. But this guy gets it....

All my characters craft. 99% of them only do daily writs at basic level. Still, it's fun. I like doing it. Achievements.... are in my view total nonsense. But for those who enjoy that particular mini game, fine. But gosh guys - that doesn't need to be something (I mean rare recipes) you do on an alt does it? I have GOBS of alts, but I don't need to learn stuff on them....

Hapexamendios

Making a new character that would have learned all the recipes makes no sense. It's impractical.

Shagreth

Amottica wrote: »

I've presented several good arguments against account wide stuff. Many others have as well. You choose to either ignore or forget these arguments.

I didn't choose to ignore anything. I simply disagree with most things that were stated. If someone wants to swap mains and forget his old main ever existed -- he simply cannot do that in ESO, at least if he was into crafting. We have the massive number of recipes & rarirty to thank for that. Even if he tries to go through the excruciating grind of getting some rare ones, he will always have to play the relog game, search for the recipe on his main (...I would that say IF there was a search system) so that he may craft X furniture and so on and so forth. How is this fun? Again, in any other game I have never felt this need, I would even call the request ridiculous. But ESO is... special.

That said, nothing has convinced me so far, I still believe that an account-wide system for recipes would help the majority instead of hurting them, same for the future of the game. There's a reason modern mmo games make tedious stuff to earn account wide. An account wide solution, with a search and a little window with a preview for furnishings would be a thing of beauty.

Oh, and mmos thriving because of repeated content is a fact. Provided said content is fun, ESO is quite backwards about this, at least in some departments.

As for AWA, think Industrial revolution(s)now A.I. etc. etc. It's called progress. Just because some of you are done with the insane grinds and doing things 'the old way', doesn't mean that new people should go through the same, provided you want new people playing your game. AWA was a good thing.

jad11mumbler

Alts don't need to know every recipe, motif and furniture plan aswell.

Sure, some of it boosts master writ drop, but the rate is so low it doesn't matter.

Just swap characters if you need to craft something.

jad11mumbler

Shagreth wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I've presented several good arguments against account wide stuff. Many others have as well. You choose to either ignore or forget these arguments.

I didn't choose to ignore anything. I simply disagree with most things that were stated. If someone wants to swap mains and forget his old main ever existed -- he simply cannot do that in ESO, at least if he was into crafting. We have the massive number of recipes & rarirty to thank for that.

If you want to forget one main ever existed, then it makes sense that you'd have to pay for it all again wouldn't it?
If it never existed, then you never farmed them in the first place.