CC Break has been broken this entire patch - Zenimax has ignored this

Credible_Joe

all y'all that think I'm saying we shouldn't leave feedback are missing the point. We should absolutely leave feedback, often and earnestly.

But demanding acknowledgement, engagement, or response from the studio is a guaranteed way not to get it.

The toxic outrage in response to unpopular updates is in no way associated with any development or turnaround after which. It was just the feedback, pure and simple. Frustration was part of that feedback, and the toxic abuse was adjacent to it. And marrying your frustration to abuse when you submit just makes sure that your thread gets passed over for community outreach. The note still goes in the box, sure, but why would they waste time and energy responding?

It's pigeon superstition. They respond to and fix issues because people are reporting them, not because of loud demands or entitlement. It might feel like they don't read the forums sometimes, but canvasing some twitch streamers for feedback doesn't preclude them from getting it here. Or even reddit; the devs and community managers are infamously silent to r/elderscrollsonline. Can you guess why? Can we even imagine the salt and abuse if a dev's reddit handle got outed?

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

bachpain

Credible_Joe wrote: »

all y'all that think I'm saying we shouldn't leave feedback are missing the point. We should absolutely leave feedback, often and earnestly.

But demanding acknowledgement, engagement, or response from the studio is a guaranteed way not to get it.

The toxic outrage in response to unpopular updates is in no way associated with any development or turnaround after which. It was just the feedback, pure and simple. Frustration was part of that feedback, and the toxic abuse was adjacent to it. And marrying your frustration to abuse when you submit just makes sure that your thread gets passed over for community outreach. The note still goes in the box, sure, but why would they waste time and energy responding?

It's pigeon superstition. They respond to and fix issues because people are reporting them, not because of loud demands or entitlement. It might feel like they don't read the forums sometimes, but canvasing some twitch streamers for feedback doesn't preclude them from getting it here. Or even reddit; the devs and community managers are infamously silent to r/elderscrollsonline. Can you guess why? Can we even imagine the salt and abuse if a dev's reddit handle got outed?

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

You must have read a different post from @React than I read. His was well articulated, to the point, civil, and to a point that was made by the studio themselves regarding their handling of game performance. Since when is asking a question being entitled or toxic?

Piojo

Credible_Joe wrote: »

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

I enjoy reading both your and React's posts. In this one, at least, I can empathize with Reacts' heightened emotion from the lack of communication, and specifically after the issue has persisted for so long. Bonus points for React having articulated it so well. I play with others who have expressed the same frustrations and, kairos-wise at least, there are times where a message needs a little emotional oomph.
edit: a word.

Credible_Joe

bachpain wrote: »

You must have read a different post from @React than I read. His was well articulated, to the point, civil, and to a point that was made by the studio themselves regarding their handling of game performance. Since when is asking a question being entitled or toxic?

His initial post reads like a prosecution opening statement, and he walks it up to suggesting the devs aren't qualified for their jobs. I pushed back on that, and it lead to a back and forth over what effectively drives studio response.

Mild compared to what we saw with U35, but the demands and positioning are still there. It doesn't cross the line, and I wouldn't call it toxic abuse, but I stand by that it arrived with no chance of a response.

Marcus684

Jaimeh wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Well, keep up your crusade, I guess. You can dress up entitlement as "criticism" as much as you want, but I guarantee you their policy won't change. Anything that happens after your call out threads is entirely coincidental and unrelated to your campaign. All it accomplishes is to discourage studio response and engagement entirely.

How's it entitlement to enquire about a bug that is really important to combat, and thus impacting players' experience? OP is just trying to understand why the devs said it was fixed in the incremental patch last month when it clearly wasn't, and why they haven't addressed the discrepancy. It's not a minor bug in, say, an older dlc content, it's core combat related. Also, I don't think threads like these discourage studio engagement, since players are documenting the bugs very thoroughly, thus making devs' job easier. In fact, when threads like these stop existing is when a game starts to perish.

Just look at the title of the thread, "...Zenimax has ignored this"

This discussion started off with hyperbole that isn't true, as the OP stated later, and continued on with it. I'm not sure how you can read the same thing everyone else did and come to the conclusion that the "...OP is just trying to understand..." when the wording and tone clearly conveys anger and criticism.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

all y'all that think I'm saying we shouldn't leave feedback are missing the point. We should absolutely leave feedback, often and earnestly.

But demanding acknowledgement, engagement, or response from the studio is a guaranteed way not to get it.

The toxic outrage in response to unpopular updates is in no way associated with any development or turnaround after which. It was just the feedback, pure and simple. Frustration was part of that feedback, and the toxic abuse was adjacent to it. And marrying your frustration to abuse when you submit just makes sure that your thread gets passed over for community outreach. The note still goes in the box, sure, but why would they waste time and energy responding?

It's pigeon superstition. They respond to and fix issues because people are reporting them, not because of loud demands or entitlement. It might feel like they don't read the forums sometimes, but canvasing some twitch streamers for feedback doesn't preclude them from getting it here. Or even reddit; the devs and community managers are infamously silent to r/elderscrollsonline. Can you guess why? Can we even imagine the salt and abuse if a dev's reddit handle got outed?

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

This. Pretty much every time a dev has dipped a toe into the forums and responded to something, it's been followed by a string of insults, abuse, whataboutisms and "I'm very disappointed in you, Son" type comments. Having worked around customer service environments for my whole career and seen what the reps hang on their cubicle walls, I'm sure there's a collection of these comments floating around that new employees at ZOS are shown if they ever have to start interacting with the player base.

Alchimiste1

@Credible_Joe @Marcus684

I believe the point of the post wasn't to slander zos but only to show how a core mechanic of the game is broken when it should have been resolved earlier. We can see that the issue has been resolved on pts so the question is; why let a bug/core mechanic stay broken on live servers when they clearly have already worked out a solution for it? Is there really a need to continually allows a core functionality of the game to stay in its broken unresolved state for weeks more?

a lot of bugs fixes and or changes have been implemented or changed weeks into a live patch so why not now?

Xandreia_

I honestly can't believe some of the replies to this post! React is a well known PvP'er who is good at what he does and also knows the game well, none of his posts have ever shown "entitlement" the only thing they have shown is a player giving much needed constructive criticism that has got responses where other threads gave failed, everyone knows that zos' communication skills aren't great and we know they push out fixes slower than any other company, all we want is for the fixes that "pass" QA to actually work. Us PvP'ers get shafted every single patch, even with the server upgrades performance still sucks. There is minimal communication about important subjects.

In short zos need to do better! It wouldn't hurt for truthful updates, not the copy pasta responses we are accustomed too.

SaffronCitrusflower

ZOS needs to be far, far more responsive when it comes to fixing these well established, well documented bugs in their game. It's totally appropriate for the player base to keep bringing up these issues until they get fixed.

React

Marcus684 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Well, keep up your crusade, I guess. You can dress up entitlement as "criticism" as much as you want, but I guarantee you their policy won't change. Anything that happens after your call out threads is entirely coincidental and unrelated to your campaign. All it accomplishes is to discourage studio response and engagement entirely.

How's it entitlement to enquire about a bug that is really important to combat, and thus impacting players' experience? OP is just trying to understand why the devs said it was fixed in the incremental patch last month when it clearly wasn't, and why they haven't addressed the discrepancy. It's not a minor bug in, say, an older dlc content, it's core combat related. Also, I don't think threads like these discourage studio engagement, since players are documenting the bugs very thoroughly, thus making devs' job easier. In fact, when threads like these stop existing is when a game starts to perish.

Just look at the title of the thread, "...Zenimax has ignored this"

This discussion started off with hyperbole that isn't true, as the OP stated later, and continued on with it. I'm not sure how you can read the same thing everyone else did and come to the conclusion that the "...OP is just trying to understand..." when the wording and tone clearly conveys anger and criticism.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

all y'all that think I'm saying we shouldn't leave feedback are missing the point. We should absolutely leave feedback, often and earnestly.

But demanding acknowledgement, engagement, or response from the studio is a guaranteed way not to get it.

The toxic outrage in response to unpopular updates is in no way associated with any development or turnaround after which. It was just the feedback, pure and simple. Frustration was part of that feedback, and the toxic abuse was adjacent to it. And marrying your frustration to abuse when you submit just makes sure that your thread gets passed over for community outreach. The note still goes in the box, sure, but why would they waste time and energy responding?

It's pigeon superstition. They respond to and fix issues because people are reporting them, not because of loud demands or entitlement. It might feel like they don't read the forums sometimes, but canvasing some twitch streamers for feedback doesn't preclude them from getting it here. Or even reddit; the devs and community managers are infamously silent to r/elderscrollsonline. Can you guess why? Can we even imagine the salt and abuse if a dev's reddit handle got outed?

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

This. Pretty much every time a dev has dipped a toe into the forums and responded to something, it's been followed by a string of insults, abuse, whataboutisms and "I'm very disappointed in you, Son" type comments. Having worked around customer service environments for my whole career and seen what the reps hang on their cubicle walls, I'm sure there's a collection of these comments floating around that new employees at ZOS are shown if they ever have to start interacting with the player base.

How is anything I wrote untrue, though? The last statement from zenimax on this issue was over one month ago, and the statement explicitly stated "A fix for this issue has passed QA and will be included in the April 11th incremental." There is no room for confusion or misunderstanding in that statement - they definitively said the issue was resolved.

This turned out to be untrue however, and zenimax proceeded to flat out ignore over a dozen tags across two threads from more than 4 different people regarding this problem, for over a month. None of these tags or comments had any sort of derogatory, disrespectful, or in your words "I'm disappointed in you son"-esque verbiage. They still chose to flat out ignore this issue.

This isn't a minor bug. This isn't an impassable quest, a broken npc dialogue, or a malfunctioning cp node. This is a core combat functionality that is broken every single time it activates. It is extremely impactful to high end PVE combat, and all forms of PVP combat. It is completely unacceptable that they lied about the issue being resolved and have now ignored it for a month.

If you find my tone or the way I presented all the facts regarding this issue and the communication surrounding it disrespectful, I simply do not know what to say. Perhaps my first comment on this thread regarding how a combat dev should perceive this issue could be perceived as disrespectful, but nothing in the initial post follows that tone. If the last part with the quote from rich bothers you, I have to ask. Do you think they've made good on their promises this year? Do you think they're treating the combat system, and the players that participate in it at a high level like they matter?

Considering there have been extremely severe combat bugs introduced in 3 consecutive DLC patches, and all of them have taken months to resolve, I do not feel like zenimax is making good on their promise to "do better". As an aside, I also feel like their actions are not at all in line with their "core studio values" they shared in that post several months ago.

Credible_Joe

React wrote: »

How is anything I wrote untrue, though? The last statement from zenimax on this issue was over one month ago, and the statement explicitly stated "A fix for this issue has passed QA and will be included in the April 11th incremental." There is no room for confusion or misunderstanding in that statement - they definitively said the issue was resolved.

This turned out to be untrue however, and zenimax proceeded to flat out ignore over a dozen tags across two threads from more than 4 different people regarding this problem, for over a month. None of these tags or comments had any sort of derogatory, disrespectful, or in your words "I'm disappointed in you son"-esque verbiage. They still chose to flat out ignore this issue.

This isn't a minor bug. This isn't an impassable quest, a broken npc dialogue, or a malfunctioning cp node. This is a core combat functionality that is broken every single time it activates. It is extremely impactful to high end PVE combat, and all forms of PVP combat. It is completely unacceptable that they lied about the issue being resolved and have now ignored it for a month.

If you find my tone or the way I presented all the facts regarding this issue and the communication surrounding it disrespectful, I simply do not know what to say. Perhaps my first comment on this thread regarding how a combat dev should perceive this issue could be perceived as disrespectful, but nothing in the initial post follows that tone. If the last part with the quote from rich bothers you, I have to ask. Do you think they've made good on their promises this year? Do you think they're treating the combat system, and the players that participate in it at a high level like they matter?

Considering there have been extremely severe combat bugs introduced in 3 consecutive DLC patches, and all of them have taken months to resolve, I do not feel like zenimax is making good on their promise to "do better". As an aside, I also feel like their actions are not at all in line with their "core studio values" they shared in that post several months ago.

This whole thread positions you as a figure that has grounds to judge and condemn the studio's behavior. I particularly liked @Marcus684 's "I'm so disappointed in you son" comment, it perfectly encompasses exactly what we're saying.

You're a stranger. On the internet. Would you engage with any rando that squares up and demands explanation or justification on any of your work?

It doesn't matter how true or documented your thread is. It doesn't even matter if their work is objectively, provably bad. You don't have those grounds. You're not their boss. You're not even a critic. You're a player, a customer, and no matter how entitled you feel to their engagement or response, there's nothing you can say or do that will force it out of them.

Like I said, keep up the crusade. But if you keep positioning yourself as someone that the studio has some sort of personal obligation to, you're going to keep getting ignored.

React

Credible_Joe wrote: »

React wrote: »

How is anything I wrote untrue, though? The last statement from zenimax on this issue was over one month ago, and the statement explicitly stated "A fix for this issue has passed QA and will be included in the April 11th incremental." There is no room for confusion or misunderstanding in that statement - they definitively said the issue was resolved.

This turned out to be untrue however, and zenimax proceeded to flat out ignore over a dozen tags across two threads from more than 4 different people regarding this problem, for over a month. None of these tags or comments had any sort of derogatory, disrespectful, or in your words "I'm disappointed in you son"-esque verbiage. They still chose to flat out ignore this issue.

This isn't a minor bug. This isn't an impassable quest, a broken npc dialogue, or a malfunctioning cp node. This is a core combat functionality that is broken every single time it activates. It is extremely impactful to high end PVE combat, and all forms of PVP combat. It is completely unacceptable that they lied about the issue being resolved and have now ignored it for a month.

If you find my tone or the way I presented all the facts regarding this issue and the communication surrounding it disrespectful, I simply do not know what to say. Perhaps my first comment on this thread regarding how a combat dev should perceive this issue could be perceived as disrespectful, but nothing in the initial post follows that tone. If the last part with the quote from rich bothers you, I have to ask. Do you think they've made good on their promises this year? Do you think they're treating the combat system, and the players that participate in it at a high level like they matter?

Considering there have been extremely severe combat bugs introduced in 3 consecutive DLC patches, and all of them have taken months to resolve, I do not feel like zenimax is making good on their promise to "do better". As an aside, I also feel like their actions are not at all in line with their "core studio values" they shared in that post several months ago.

This whole thread positions you as a figure that has grounds to judge and condemn the studio's behavior. I particularly liked @Marcus684 's "I'm so disappointed in you son" comment, it perfectly encompasses exactly what we're saying.

You're a stranger. On the internet. Would you engage with any rando that squares up and demands explanation or justification on any of your work?

It doesn't matter how true or documented your thread is. It doesn't even matter if their work is objectively, provably bad. You don't have those grounds. You're not their boss. You're not even a critic. You're a player, a customer, and no matter how entitled you feel to their engagement or response, there's nothing you can say or do that will force it out of them.

Like I said, keep up the crusade. But if you keep positioning yourself as someone that the studio has some sort of personal obligation to, you're going to keep getting ignored.

Every single player of the game has the grounds to judge the studio's behavior and actions. Just like you're making your judgements where you've implied they're doing an adequate job, I'm implying the opposite.

You can keep trying to paint me as "someone who thinks the studio has a personal obligation to them", but that is simply untrue and you're just creating a narrative based on your personal perspective to try and discredit the things I'm saying here. The comment you quoted above wasn't even directed at you, I quoted Marcus and you ignored everything I said in that comment to continue personally attacking me. You aren't even addressing the topic of this thread, which is the CC break issue - you're just trying to assassinate my character.

You can keep replying if you'd like, but I won't be reading them.

CameraBeardThePirate

Credible_Joe wrote: »

React wrote: »

How is anything I wrote untrue, though? The last statement from zenimax on this issue was over one month ago, and the statement explicitly stated "A fix for this issue has passed QA and will be included in the April 11th incremental." There is no room for confusion or misunderstanding in that statement - they definitively said the issue was resolved.

This turned out to be untrue however, and zenimax proceeded to flat out ignore over a dozen tags across two threads from more than 4 different people regarding this problem, for over a month. None of these tags or comments had any sort of derogatory, disrespectful, or in your words "I'm disappointed in you son"-esque verbiage. They still chose to flat out ignore this issue.

This isn't a minor bug. This isn't an impassable quest, a broken npc dialogue, or a malfunctioning cp node. This is a core combat functionality that is broken every single time it activates. It is extremely impactful to high end PVE combat, and all forms of PVP combat. It is completely unacceptable that they lied about the issue being resolved and have now ignored it for a month.

If you find my tone or the way I presented all the facts regarding this issue and the communication surrounding it disrespectful, I simply do not know what to say. Perhaps my first comment on this thread regarding how a combat dev should perceive this issue could be perceived as disrespectful, but nothing in the initial post follows that tone. If the last part with the quote from rich bothers you, I have to ask. Do you think they've made good on their promises this year? Do you think they're treating the combat system, and the players that participate in it at a high level like they matter?

Considering there have been extremely severe combat bugs introduced in 3 consecutive DLC patches, and all of them have taken months to resolve, I do not feel like zenimax is making good on their promise to "do better". As an aside, I also feel like their actions are not at all in line with their "core studio values" they shared in that post several months ago.

This whole thread positions you as a figure that has grounds to judge and condemn the studio's behavior. I particularly liked @Marcus684 's "I'm so disappointed in you son" comment, it perfectly encompasses exactly what we're saying.

You're a stranger. On the internet. Would you engage with any rando that squares up and demands explanation or justification on any of your work?

It doesn't matter how true or documented your thread is. It doesn't even matter if their work is objectively, provably bad. You don't have those grounds. You're not their boss. You're not even a critic. You're a player, a customer, and no matter how entitled you feel to their engagement or response, there's nothing you can say or do that will force it out of them.

Like I said, keep up the crusade. But if you keep positioning yourself as someone that the studio has some sort of personal obligation to, you're going to keep getting ignored.

This is a live service game that people pay for. Players are absolutely justified to expect communication on something that impacts their enjoyment of the game, especially when said something has been present for months. Part of running a live service game is transparency and communication.

Does that mean the communication will happen? No, but players are justified in expecting/asking for it.

Credible_Joe

I addressed the thread's topic in my original reply, and it was ignored it to focus on condemning the studio. Whether or not I'm ignored, threads like these are detrimental to the community and paints us as a whole as entitled and judgmental.

I'll always push back on that.

Xandreia_

Credible_Joe wrote: »

I addressed the thread's topic in my original reply, and it was ignored it to focus on condemning the studio. Whether or not I'm ignored, threads like these are detrimental to the community and paints us as a whole as entitled and judgmental.

I'll always push back on that.

They should be held accountable for poor choices, performance and terrible communication!

Credible_Joe

Xandreia_ wrote: »

They should be held accountable for poor choices, performance and terrible communication!

Held accountable? Did they hurt you? Should we notify the authorities?

Did anything actually happen beyond consumers being disappointed with a product?

I keep saying, by all means, submit your feedback. Convey your frustrations. It's imperative to the health of the game. But approaching them as if they've commit a crime or owe you something will guarantee you don't get a response.

Marcus684

Xandreia_ wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

I addressed the thread's topic in my original reply, and it was ignored it to focus on condemning the studio. Whether or not I'm ignored, threads like these are detrimental to the community and paints us as a whole as entitled and judgmental.

I'll always push back on that.

They should be held accountable for poor choices, performance and terrible communication!

Employees of a corporation are accountable to their fellow employees, supervisors, shareholders and the like, NOT their customers. We as a customer a free to use their product if we like it or to stop using it if we don't. We aren't entitled to force them to respond to angry, insulting tirades over perceived shortcomings in their product.

For this issue in particular, ZOS acknowledged the problem and put forth a plan to address it. Evidentally, the plan changed and they chose to delay its implementation. Would it have been nice if they had informed us that it was going to be delayed and why? Of course. It would have been an example of their stated desire to "Do better". However, when people come to the forums accusing them of "lying" and "blatantly ignoring critical issues", implying they don't care about the user base or their product, and saying they are "unfit to be combat designers", it's 100% going to do nothing to encourage better communication with us, and very likely do the opposite.

Four_Fingers

Getting hyperbolic and fighting amongst ourselves won't get anything done either.

SandandStars

@React has a well-established history of clear, effective, productive communication with the dev team via Kevin, Gina, and others.

In many instances they have thanked him for his carefully documented and articulate feedback.

It appears some on this thread are unaware of that.

Marcus684

SandandStars wrote: »

@React has a well-established history of clear, effective, productive communication with the dev team via Kevin, Gina, and others.

In many instances they have thanked him for his carefully documented and articulate feedback.

It appears some on this thread are unaware of that.

I've noticed his comments over the years and I agree that they've been thoughtful and effective. That's why when I read this one I responded by suggesting he needed a break, because communicating in this manner is not effective and will likely be counterproductive.

Alchimiste1

Credible_Joe wrote: »

React wrote: »

How is anything I wrote untrue, though? The last statement from zenimax on this issue was over one month ago, and the statement explicitly stated "A fix for this issue has passed QA and will be included in the April 11th incremental." There is no room for confusion or misunderstanding in that statement - they definitively said the issue was resolved.

This turned out to be untrue however, and zenimax proceeded to flat out ignore over a dozen tags across two threads from more than 4 different people regarding this problem, for over a month. None of these tags or comments had any sort of derogatory, disrespectful, or in your words "I'm disappointed in you son"-esque verbiage. They still chose to flat out ignore this issue.

This isn't a minor bug. This isn't an impassable quest, a broken npc dialogue, or a malfunctioning cp node. This is a core combat functionality that is broken every single time it activates. It is extremely impactful to high end PVE combat, and all forms of PVP combat. It is completely unacceptable that they lied about the issue being resolved and have now ignored it for a month.

If you find my tone or the way I presented all the facts regarding this issue and the communication surrounding it disrespectful, I simply do not know what to say. Perhaps my first comment on this thread regarding how a combat dev should perceive this issue could be perceived as disrespectful, but nothing in the initial post follows that tone. If the last part with the quote from rich bothers you, I have to ask. Do you think they've made good on their promises this year? Do you think they're treating the combat system, and the players that participate in it at a high level like they matter?

Considering there have been extremely severe combat bugs introduced in 3 consecutive DLC patches, and all of them have taken months to resolve, I do not feel like zenimax is making good on their promise to "do better". As an aside, I also feel like their actions are not at all in line with their "core studio values" they shared in that post several months ago.

This whole thread positions you as a figure that has grounds to judge and condemn the studio's behavior. I particularly liked @Marcus684 's "I'm so disappointed in you son" comment, it perfectly encompasses exactly what we're saying.

You're a stranger. On the internet. Would you engage with any rando that squares up and demands explanation or justification on any of your work?

It doesn't matter how true or documented your thread is. It doesn't even matter if their work is objectively, provably bad. You don't have those grounds. You're not their boss. You're not even a critic. You're a player, a customer, and no matter how entitled you feel to their engagement or response, there's nothing you can say or do that will force it out of them.

Like I said, keep up the crusade. But if you keep positioning yourself as someone that the studio has some sort of personal obligation to, you're going to keep getting ignored.

This comment is honestly so irritating.
Customers don't have the right to voice their concerns over a non-working product/defect? There is literally a section for bug reports. I think you just dug yourself in a hole are refusing to acknowledge that you are wrong but are too prideful to do so.

Actually, irritation to read things like this.

spartaxoxo

Dr_Con wrote: »

There are many visual glitches in the game. I think if you shared how this negatively (edit: or positively, as it seems like the animation cancelling is being done for you) impacts your ability to play the game, rather than just reporting it as a visual glitch, it might be more likely to get priority/taken seriously.

Yeah, I'm kinda curious how much this impacts gameplay in a real setting. Has anyone died specifically because of this?

spartaxoxo

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Customers don't have the right to voice their concerns over a non-working product/defect? There is literally a section for bug reports. I think you just dug yourself in a hole are refusing to acknowledge that you are wrong but are too prideful to do so.

As someone who has been a moderator for the official forums on another game, I think I can guess what he's trying to say. It isn't that he thinks that negative feedback shouldn't be given. It's that it should always be worded respectfully, to the best of one's ability, because the developers are human beings, and it is impossible for a game of this size to ever be perfect. There will always be bugs. There will always be overpowered abilities or sets. There will always be performance issues. No company can provide a perfect live service game.

Not all threads, even important ones, can be responded to. It's just not feasible. The bug hasn't been ignored. It's been fixed, on the PTS. The issue of this bug is NOT that it's been ignored. It's that players want more responses. That's an understandable thing, the devs DO Need to improve their communication. But even if they do improve it pretty well, it will never be all thread players believe to be important that will be given a response. Sometimes, a response will simply come in the form of fixes in patches. I share the concern that developers should communicate with us more though. This is especially important during a PTS and shortly after a patch, IMO. I wish they would increase their forum presence in general during those times. It would go a long way in making players feel more valued and like their concerns are being heard. It's not just this thread. There's a pattern of feedback not being given responses.

kringled_1

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

There are many visual glitches in the game. I think if you shared how this negatively (edit: or positively, as it seems like the animation cancelling is being done for you) impacts your ability to play the game, rather than just reporting it as a visual glitch, it might be more likely to get priority/taken seriously.

Yeah, I'm kinda curious how much this impacts gameplay in a real setting. Has anyone died specifically because of this?

Abilities go out, and do damage, with no visuals. Someone else in the thread described a DK standard that couldn't be seen.

spartaxoxo

kringled_1 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

There are many visual glitches in the game. I think if you shared how this negatively (edit: or positively, as it seems like the animation cancelling is being done for you) impacts your ability to play the game, rather than just reporting it as a visual glitch, it might be more likely to get priority/taken seriously.

Yeah, I'm kinda curious how much this impacts gameplay in a real setting. Has anyone died specifically because of this?

Abilities go out, and do damage, with no visuals. Someone else in the thread described a DK standard that couldn't be seen.

Ah I missed that reply about the DK standard. That's pretty serious. So I'm guessing a lot of pvp deaths in particular are happening to this.

rpa

Is it just my severe lag or does the bug have something to do with me in battlegrounds not seeing any visual indication of the enemy attacks until death recap? Just wondering.

ProudMary

Paying customers have every right to continue bringing up bugs and performance issues, repeatedly, until those bugs and performance issues are fixed.

spartaxoxo

ProudMary wrote: »

Paying customers have every right to continue bringing up bugs and performance issues, repeatedly, until those bugs and performance issues are fixed.

Yup, agreed. This one is fixed on the pts, probably in part thanks to OP's earlier threads. Bug reports that are as well explained as the earlier threads are hugely helpful in understanding an issue so it can be addressed. Typically pts patches don't come out in incremental pieces but all at once. So we can expect this bug to be fixed on live when Necrom drops unless they tell us otherwise.

The_Lex

History demonstrates that ZOS rarely responds when bug posts are dispassionate and infrequent. Rather, they often respond when there is a noisy and passionate uproar, both here and on other online media.

Jammy420

Marcus684 wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

Well, keep up your crusade, I guess. You can dress up entitlement as "criticism" as much as you want, but I guarantee you their policy won't change. Anything that happens after your call out threads is entirely coincidental and unrelated to your campaign. All it accomplishes is to discourage studio response and engagement entirely.

How's it entitlement to enquire about a bug that is really important to combat, and thus impacting players' experience? OP is just trying to understand why the devs said it was fixed in the incremental patch last month when it clearly wasn't, and why they haven't addressed the discrepancy. It's not a minor bug in, say, an older dlc content, it's core combat related. Also, I don't think threads like these discourage studio engagement, since players are documenting the bugs very thoroughly, thus making devs' job easier. In fact, when threads like these stop existing is when a game starts to perish.

Just look at the title of the thread, "...Zenimax has ignored this"

This discussion started off with hyperbole that isn't true, as the OP stated later, and continued on with it. I'm not sure how you can read the same thing everyone else did and come to the conclusion that the "...OP is just trying to understand..." when the wording and tone clearly conveys anger and criticism.

Credible_Joe wrote: »

all y'all that think I'm saying we shouldn't leave feedback are missing the point. We should absolutely leave feedback, often and earnestly.

But demanding acknowledgement, engagement, or response from the studio is a guaranteed way not to get it.

The toxic outrage in response to unpopular updates is in no way associated with any development or turnaround after which. It was just the feedback, pure and simple. Frustration was part of that feedback, and the toxic abuse was adjacent to it. And marrying your frustration to abuse when you submit just makes sure that your thread gets passed over for community outreach. The note still goes in the box, sure, but why would they waste time and energy responding?

It's pigeon superstition. They respond to and fix issues because people are reporting them, not because of loud demands or entitlement. It might feel like they don't read the forums sometimes, but canvasing some twitch streamers for feedback doesn't preclude them from getting it here. Or even reddit; the devs and community managers are infamously silent to r/elderscrollsonline. Can you guess why? Can we even imagine the salt and abuse if a dev's reddit handle got outed?

tl;dr, want a response? Keep it civil, respectful, and make no demands. Otherwise you definitely won't get one.

This. Pretty much every time a dev has dipped a toe into the forums and responded to something, it's been followed by a string of insults, abuse, whataboutisms and "I'm very disappointed in you, Son" type comments. Having worked around customer service environments for my whole career and seen what the reps hang on their cubicle walls, I'm sure there's a collection of these comments floating around that new employees at ZOS are shown if they ever have to start interacting with the player base.

Well if they were more consistant, and actually communicated in the pts, people would be less likely to jump.

ProudMary

spartaxoxo wrote: »

ProudMary wrote: »

Paying customers have every right to continue bringing up bugs and performance issues, repeatedly, until those bugs and performance issues are fixed.

Yup, agreed. This one is fixed on the pts, probably in part thanks to OP's earlier threads. Bug reports that are as well explained as the earlier threads are hugely helpful in understanding an issue so it can be addressed. Typically pts patches don't come out in incremental pieces but all at once. So we can expect this bug to be fixed on live when Necrom drops unless they tell us otherwise.

Issues aren't fixed until they've gone live and actually show themselves to be fixed in real time in the actual game.