My first month experience in ESO as new player almost ruined

CGPsaint

If you're on Xbox/NA then I'll be happy to recommend some amazing guilds!

N00BxV1

(general thoughts below)

-- Some people are just toxic. It doesn't matter if they're Newbie, Veteran, Casual, Hardcore, Tank, Healer, DPS... I see it all the time in random groups from all types of players. And it doesn't help player attitudes like when the run isn't going smoothly or is wasting people's time.

-- Something needs to be done about Deserters but I don't know what could be done. Some people manually leave group and take the penalty, but just swap to another character and queue again. So maybe make the penalty account-wide? Some people completely dodge the penalty by simply swapping characters without leaving the group, forcing everyone in the group to kick them in order to find a replacement, but they do not receive a penalty at all. So a penalty doesn't even matter in that case...

-- Putting people on Ignore does not prevent you from matching with them using the Activity Finder. All it does is prevent communication like chat and mail. And it only prevents communication coming from the blocked player but doesn't prevent you from communicating with them... I have ignored exactly one person since 2014 just because they put me on Ignore and kept whispering me while knowing that I couldn't respond to them...

-- I think it's a bad idea for new players to focus on grinding CP before anything else. Because while grinding CP (Skyreach for example) they're missing out on all the needed Skill Lines, Skill Points, gear for builds, etc. They'll be 800CP but still weak because they don't have any of their build together. Instead they should probably do the opposite and focus on actually progressing by unlocking Skill Lines, getting Skill Points and gear for their build. CP is only a small piece of the puzzle and it will come naturally while doing anything else in the game.

-- Try to set a good example for others by playing the role that you signed up for to the best of your ability. It doesn't matter what the content is. If you sign up for a role and other people are expecting you to play it then it's your responsibility to do your part. No one likes fakers...

-- About 80% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Gnesnig wrote: »

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

So I shouldn't be allowed to queue for base game dungeons just because I've played since 2014 and am over 2000CP!? Almost everyone who has played for a minute has 18 characters (soon to be 20) on each account... So what about all of those alt characters!?

What a terrible idea... That would absolutely destroy the Activity Finder and everyone's queue times if even less people were in it. How is that even supposed to work for someone who is over 1600CP but doesn't have access to DLC dungeons? And should we also restrict anyone under 1600CP from doing DLC dungeons? There's more reasons to run dungeons than just the daily random or pledges. We need to run dungeons to get Skill Points, gear, achievements, etc.

Restricting players from content just because of their CP is ludicrous. And we shouldn't be forced to make our own groups because that is what the Activity Finder is for.

MreeBiPolar

Daoin wrote: »

and the last time anyone who actually enjoys playing falkreath hold enjoyed falkreath hold in a random group ? none existent, thats just one example of a dungeon if i pull it as random i have to ask to be kicked or just leave at the moment, as soon as the loader screen changes to the dungeon. as tank healer or dd

I might be lucky, but the last dozen timed I ran FH with PUG were awesome, whether I was a tank or a DD.

... Now an experience of running PUG as a tank in most other dungeons was... UGH. Especially with some of the newer dungeons' like Lair of Maarselok or Earthen Root Enclave distances. Even if they allowed mounting (which they don't), it'd not help because the experience there (and in 3/4 of other places) could be summarized as "everyone runs full speed ahead, triggers and ignores the mobs, locking the whole dungeon in combat mode, then half the time get angsty that the tank falls behind despite having to waste what little stam they have on countering CCs from all the mobs they are left to break through on their own". Sometimes, it is just a bunch of teleporting to boss combat, to the point you might as well just stand still until they trigger it, which makes the experience absolutely not enjoyable, either.

HumbleThaumaturge

I started playing ESO on the North American (NA) PC server, but then I decided to try the EU PC server. I did not start running group dungeons until my new character there was CP 300. I was quite happily surprised at the attitudes of players on the EU server. I remember one dungeon run in which all four of us died: Instead of hurling insults or leaving the group, we laughed at ourselves, took a few gulps of mead, and then had a friendly, easy-going, and humorous conversation about what we learned and how we would do things differently on our next attempt. As I kept running dungeons, I would be in pickup groups with random stranger, and they were all friendly and fun and helpful. Naturally, running dungeons with my new guildmates was the best, because we would frequently be in the same group together for daily pledges. In goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway: The attitudes and personalities of other players can make a game delightfully fun or quite unpleasant. If one does not have an entire server of nice, fun people, then definitely join or form a guild who largely recruits such players.

Gargath

Ixilduur wrote: »

So this got me thinking and wonder why would I invest into ESO+ or getting DLCS in the future if I am not going to be able to get those dungeons, rewards and gear to progress in the game.
I really hope this gets looked into it by the dev team and do something about it.

[snip]
There are a lot of reasons why people invest into ESO+, I for example did not touch group dungeons for years and also now don't care baout them. I subbed to be able to equip special gears from antiquities system and get there a super nice furnitures not available anywhere else. Also for the craftbag and some other reasons.

A good guild with open people may be a solution for pug problems, but in good guilds can also play rude people who are not patient for newcomers or just tired after work or have thousands other reasons to let you know they do not care about your existence. For these people there is ignore section in game (friends tab) or another guild.

[edited for minor bashing]

itsfatbass

Welcome to MMOs and random people online. It comes with the territory. Plus for most players, normal dungeons die with light attacks and one hand tied behind their back. Even if they walked from boss to boss, the place gets cleared in no time.

Try getting a companion and doing solo stuff, even normal dungeons just you and your comp. You'll be able to do it at your own pace and at times get to challenge yourself.

Gnesnig

N00BxV1 wrote: »

-- Try to set a good example for others by playing the role that you signed up for to the best of your ability. It doesn't matter what the content is. If you sign up for a role and other people are expecting you to play it then it's your responsibility to do your part. No one likes fakers...

Admirable statement, completely unenforceable and exactly the problem. There have been numerous threads in the past about a scoring system for your performance in a group to weed out bad players / fakers. All ideas flawed because of abuse potential. As time goes on, having to do the same dungens over and over for transmutes and keys because the combat system was once again revamped and so you need to rekit yourself....it feeds the bad attitude.

Random normal dungeon I don't even try any more. But even on vet, bad attitude, fake tanks/healers are becoming the standard. People even dictate (not ask) you to skip mobs that aren't on the pledge and when you don't, just let you deal with those bosses yourself.

N00BxV1 wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

So I shouldn't be allowed to queue for base game dungeons just because I've played since 2014 and am over 2000CP!? Almost everyone who has played for a minute has 18 characters (soon to be 20) on each account... So what about all of those alt characters!?

What a terrible idea... That would absolutely destroy the Activity Finder and everyone's queue times if even less people were in it.

So a few things. I don't think Activity Finder is empty, I think it's full with DPS waiting to get their rewards, because it's the only way to obtain them.
Second, don't kid yourself, Activity Finder is already on it's way to be destroyed, because if you want to have a relaxed dungeon experience, let alone learn mechanics, you're made out to be a crazy person. Litterally, people have told me that Dungeon X isn't content, it's just something you run through and get your reward. And I have no way to not get queued up with those people, cause as you pointed out, ignore isn't used to filter potential group mates. So it's better for me to form groups in zone chat or guild.

N00BxV1 wrote: »

How is that even supposed to work for someone who is over 1600CP but doesn't have access to DLC dungeons? And should we also restrict anyone under 1600CP from doing DLC dungeons? There's more reasons to run dungeons than just the daily random or pledges. We need to run dungeons to get Skill Points, gear, achievements, etc.

Form groups in zone or guild chat. The skill points for alts with 1600CP? Run the quest on normal solo or with a partner. Or again - form a group yourself.

N00BxV1 wrote: »

Restricting players from content just because of their CP is ludicrous. And we shouldn't be forced to make our own groups because that is what the Activity Finder is for.

Again, I'm not restricting players from content but from a convenience feature. It's already in the game even: if <300CP you can't port into vet trials, but you can walk in. This is no different, it just flips the base to a cap restriction.

But perhaps a better solution is to have multiple queues that divide people into similar CP ranges, so that you have a balanced group. I was also in a group where both DPS was <100CP, in a vet dungeon on my tank with ~900CP, Everyone did their best, but in the end we couldn't finish, because we lacked the DPS for the final boss and were burried on the adds he spawned during the fight. And I've seen plenty of times, that people drop group after the first trash mobs, cause they know it'll be a challenge or fail to finish. Without saying a word in group of course.

However, in the end the driving factor of bad attitudes is that keys can only be earned with pledges and the only other sources of transmutes are Pvp and ToT. Even though the Activity Finder isn't just for pledge keys and the big RND/RVD reward, it is what it's used for in the vast majority of cases. You'll notice that if you try to queue for a vet dungeon that isn't the days pledg - even on a tank, I gave up after 30 minutes.

FeedbackOnly

disintegr8 wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

What a ridiculous statement, presumably you've been wronged by someone and have decided to tar everyone with the same brush.

Group content is available to all, be it dungeons or trials. Harder content, like vet DLC dungeons and trials, require you to make some effort by equipping half decent gear and bringing something to the team, like knowledge about your role and some skill in your role. If you're new to the content, it is recommended that you find a guild that holds training runs.

Someone calling in zone for people with a certain DPS number, or specifying a healer with X, Y or Z gear, to run a vet trial is not elitist, probably just desperate. Calling for people in zone chat is basically running a random group, you take whatever is offered.

Group content on trials is gated.

It takes a leader type to go on their own or luck to find right kind of people for you.

Most groups will decide what you wear, what type of character you can bring. Even force you do hard mode tactics while it's only normal

The average person is a follower type and trials are gated as such. You dungeons used to be same way till dungeon finder became stable. ( It was really really broken before)

Aorys

This happens because the grinding is mixed with roleplay. While you got people that run a dungeon 1x per day for doing the quest, there are players that need to do the dungeon 50x to get all the gear they want so try to imagine spending 40 minutes each run. I'm not defending those who leave the dungeon halfway. Speedrunning is not bad IF they can get the job done.

Gnesnig

Aorys wrote: »

This happens because the grinding is mixed with roleplay. While you got people that run a dungeon 1x per day for doing the quest, there are players that need to do the dungeon 50x to get all the gear they want so try to imagine spending 40 minutes each run. I'm not defending those who leave the dungeon halfway. Speedrunning is not bad IF they can get the job done.

Sure, thing is - you can do a dungeon quickly and sometimes quicker without skipping all the trash. Combing 2-3 groups at most, will be the same amount of time or marginally slower and you won't have to wait for doors to open.

Of course there are dungeons where you can skip trash without getting agro, such as the top of Tempest Island (if mounted and with Dark Brotherhood skill for some of them). But those are few. And I seriously hate the jump out of the water shortcut in Fungal Grotto. Takes so much time if your char is the wrong height or you just can't get the right jump. And those bosses are so close together - if people were there for stickebook, then it makes more sense not to skip bosses. Thing is they're there for the keys as it's the only source to get them and that is the primary source of skipping everything that isn't needed for the pledge.

daim

Maybe there should non-cp (or max 160cp) dungeon option. That way the high cp people would only select the cp version and others that don't want to do it fast could go for non-cp.

Heelie

In general, don't have an expectations to the group finder, don't expect to get a healer, don't expect to get a tank with taunt. ESO has no strict definition of roles, technically you're a tank by doing dps, because then the group takes less damage as the boss fight is not as long. Also don't feel entitled to other peoples time, if someone wants to quit mid way through a dungeon they have every right to, quiting in the first 15 seconds is also ok. There is a cooldown of 15 mins for doing so, and that is punishment enough, most people run normal dungeons for xp and transmute stones, so if they get a long DLC dungeon it's easier to just leave and do something else with your time. And that's fair enough, again you're not entitled to someone elses time.

Gaeliannas

I see a lot of folks blaming the tank/healer in this thread and not sure if anyone mentioned it, but if your tank, healer or both dump group before the final boss, it is normally because the DPS is not performing and they probably aren't in the mood to waste another hour failing. If you are in a PUG and have been struggling through the minor bosses, don't expect anyone to stick around for the final one.

Friend and guild groups (as long as you are up front about your skills/goals) are great for RPing, questing, learning mechanics and struggling, PUGS just want to complete the content, and if it is obvious they won't, they bail. You are not going to find many altruistic players in PUGS. They are pretty much focused on their own goals and can't be bothered with yours, and definitely dislike carrying others as it wastes their playtime. And no... I did not say those nice folks don't exist, as I am sure there will be many responses about how some folks here always help, I simply said they are not that common "in-game". (Your experience may vary)

And yes, fake tanks and healers abound in ESO, but even that generally won't stop you from completing a dungeon, which is why it has unfortunately become a thing.

kringled_1

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Castagere wrote: »

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

What a ridiculous statement, presumably you've been wronged by someone and have decided to tar everyone with the same brush.

Group content is available to all, be it dungeons or trials. Harder content, like vet DLC dungeons and trials, require you to make some effort by equipping half decent gear and bringing something to the team, like knowledge about your role and some skill in your role. If you're new to the content, it is recommended that you find a guild that holds training runs.

Someone calling in zone for people with a certain DPS number, or specifying a healer with X, Y or Z gear, to run a vet trial is not elitist, probably just desperate. Calling for people in zone chat is basically running a random group, you take whatever is offered.

Group content on trials is gated.

It takes a leader type to go on their own or luck to find right kind of people for you.

Most groups will decide what you wear, what type of character you can bring. Even force you do hard mode tactics while it's only normal

The average person is a follower type and trials are gated as such. You dungeons used to be same way till dungeon finder became stable. ( It was really really broken before)

This is completely out of sync with my experience.
Most of the trade/social guilds I've been with will run normals with minimal limits or restrictions.
Support sets may be listed, but mostly so supports can coordinate.

And yes, it needs a little bit of organization. That's not really gated in any meaningful sense of the word.

Gnesnig wrote: »

Aorys wrote: »

This happens because the grinding is mixed with roleplay. While you got people that run a dungeon 1x per day for doing the quest, there are players that need to do the dungeon 50x to get all the gear they want so try to imagine spending 40 minutes each run. I'm not defending those who leave the dungeon halfway. Speedrunning is not bad IF they can get the job done.

Sure, thing is - you can do a dungeon quickly and sometimes quicker without skipping all the trash. Combing 2-3 groups at most, will be the same amount of time or marginally slower and you won't have to wait for doors to open.

Of course there are dungeons where you can skip trash without getting agro, such as the top of Tempest Island (if mounted and with Dark Brotherhood skill for some of them). But those are few. And I seriously hate the jump out of the water shortcut in Fungal Grotto. Takes so much time if your char is the wrong height or you just can't get the right jump. And those bosses are so close together - if people were there for stickebook, then it makes more sense not to skip bosses. Thing is they're there for the keys as it's the only source to get them and that is the primary source of skipping everything that isn't needed for the pledge.

Even if you're there for stickerbook, it usually only takes a few runs of the dungeon to get all body pieces. At that point, only final boss is likely to help with stickerbook, anad all the preceding bosses/minis don't help.

Elsonso

Aorys wrote: »

This happens because the grinding is mixed with roleplay. While you got people that run a dungeon 1x per day for doing the quest, there are players that need to do the dungeon 50x to get all the gear they want so try to imagine spending 40 minutes each run. I'm not defending those who leave the dungeon halfway. Speedrunning is not bad IF they can get the job done.

In addition, the last boss in the dungeon is what is likely going to be dropping the gear that some people are looking for to complete the sticker book or get the piece they need or get their key. I am sure those players would love a portal to the boss they want from the dungeon entrance. They skip as much as the game will allow, exit after killing the boss. If they are farming gear, they are requeued before the rest of the people even have a chance to say "tyfg".

When player goals in the dungeon mix, and people aren't willing to adapt and meet half way when goals conflict, this is what causes the bad feelings about the other players.

FantasticFreddie

People will say they want things like trials and dungeons to be less "elitist" but here's they thing: they really don't.
Because at the end of the day, people like to clear.
I've run normal "learning" trials in the past, and they were nearly impossible to fill. The only requirements were essentially 160 CP and show up, and I would bend that 160 CP ifnI couldn't get people to show up.

I was yoinking people from Craglorn just to fill, evey week.

I also tried to do a SUPER low req vAS trainer. This was in response to people complaining that everyone wanted to just blast through vAS there was nowhere to learn, etc, and "Everyone wants a 115k parse just to learn"
I set the dps req at 80k and the supports didn't even need experience, just needed the gear and class combo.

In THREE MONTHS we never had a full roster. I was always scrambling for fill, and finally just gave it up.

I feel like if all of the people complaining about elitists ONLY ran with people who thought exactly the way they do-- that parsing is unnecessary, that you should just wear whatever gear you want, weaving is a bug, no need to be in voice, etc, they would absolutely hate it. Because everything would be so much harder than it needs to be.
In my experience, people that complain about the elitists want everyone else to meet those higher standards, and for themselves to play however they want.

Gnesnig

kringled_1 wrote: »

Even if you're there for stickerbook, it usually only takes a few runs of the dungeon to get all body pieces. At that point, only final boss is likely to help with stickerbook, anad all the preceding bosses/minis don't help.

Ah forgot about that. So I wonder if you take that away and just let everything drop of all bosses + you make more sources for keys, what that would do to people's general attitude in dungeons.

Daggerfell0929

Sarannah wrote: »

First off, welcome to the game! Glad to hear you are having fun.

At the moment, the normal dungeons(MMO part of the game), is having an issue where veteran players rush through only for the rewards. Meaning the MMO part of the game needs quite some work from ZOS, but I do not know if they ever will do this. As far as I know, ZOS has never really addressed the issues players experience in normal dungeons.

But don't let that stop you from playing or having fun, try to find a guild who wants to do the MMO parts of the game normally. This will also make your time in the game more valuable/fun.

Welcome to the game, and enjoy your stay!

PS: Don't feel bad if a group does not work out, it happens. Just go again!

agreed. I am one of the players doing this. I recently was farming the pillar of nirn set for parsing, I ended up running falkreath hold like 40 times in one day. I would skip all the trash and pull everyone to the next boss. A simple solution to fix this would be to allow players to "target" a specific gear drop from a dungeon or trial at a time. This way I could enjoy the game and not have to worry about farming out a set before my next trial run.

Ph1p

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Group content on trials is gated. [...] Most groups will decide what you wear, what type of character you can bring. Even force you do hard mode tactics while it's only normal [...] The average person is a follower type and trials are gated as such.

By that definition, every organized group sport or game is gated. A football goalie needs to wear gloves; the healer in a D&D group can't be specced as an archer; the youth hockey league has a minimum age of 16... Every trial group I know sets their requirements around the content they're doing and the experience of the group. And I think that an existing group's right to play with people of similar ambition and/or ability trumps your desire to join them.

I wish people complaining about gate-keeping and elitism would try to organize a raid group themselves: Experience first-hand the time and coordination it requires to achieve results, witness the chaos and frustration caused by letting everyone just wear and do whatever. Actually, if you've ever been in a PUG that wiped over and over, you know exactly what that's like.

Sure, there are some groups that set exaggerated requirements - no need for 90k DPS on a nHRC run... But personally, I wouldn't want to be a part of such a team anyway and there are enough guilds and communities that offer more reasonably "gated" events for every level of ambition and experience.

Vrienda

Dungeons are in a very... bad state. I'll often go into a dungeon, have an 'experience' and be like "Man if I hadn't been playing this game since 2014 I would quit right here and now".

Typically it's either the group bumrushing the end, often skipping bosses that are essential for the pledge (happened to me yesterday in Darkshade 1 I think it was? The Kwama mine one, we skipped the kwama boss and I had to go back and solo it... against the auto-kick timer because the group disbanded )

Being kicked for waiting for the quest RP to end (GEE I'm sorry I ruined your silly little set farm by taking ten seconds to wait for the insufferable NPC RP to finish while grinding undaunted rep on an alt).

Missing the story of a new dungeon. (Yes, even when a dungeon is brand new people still bumrush, it's the worst way ESO tells stories, I don't even see the point in paying attention because the dialogue either cuts out because people progress too fast or is buggy and doesn't play at all).

Or way, way back when I did selene's web and the STUPID DUNGEON RP took too long to finish and I got booted out of the dungeon by that RIDICULOUS auto-kick feature for when everyone else had left. They since extended the timer but the timer shouldn't be there in the first place.

Basically. Don't do dungeons. The daily is amazing for exp but even then good god it's just a terrible experience. You could try and find a super niche community that runs the dungeons exactly the way you want but like... let's be real, that's incredibly unrealistic an ask. The dungeons and reward incentives are poorly designed.

I think a large part of it is because it's a megaserver. People can be as toxic as they want because they will never see you again. They'll disappear into another shard and if you ever do meet again you won't remember each other because it'll have been months.

ADarklore

It's for a lot of these reasons that I tend to play almost exclusively solo. I much prefer questing and exploring open world to doing difficult content anyway, but there are times I need or want to run a particular group dungeon- but I won't do it if I can't do it solo.

I've played other MMOs and have seen similar horror stories... so it's not just ESO players... it's MMO players in general. Although I will say, playing FFXIV I still did mostly solo as much as possible, but the times I was forced to group it always went well- never had the negativity there that I've seen in other MMOs.