My first month experience in ESO as new player almost ruined

Daoin

in the end though for me personally pugs have become my main passtime in eso and other than the bad ones you can meet nice new people there and have had some great experiences, but it generally starts off this way for most players and once you find your feet are generally a main thing in eso i would have to attribute learning the ropes of my roles in eso to the good pug groups i have been in over the years, i would say around 70 % of my dungeon achievments have been through group finder but its very hard to explain there are always 2 sides to a coin in general there can be a bad experience in a random group as much as a good and if you dont do many randoms the coin can repeatedly fall on either side is why its probably not looking so good !

Jaimeh

Ixilduur wrote: »

So this got me thinking and wonder why would I invest into ESO+ or getting DLCS in the future if I am not going to be able to get those dungeons, rewards and gear to progress in the game.

The group finder can be very hit-or-miss sometimes and a test on someone's patience, but the gear from the dungeons are not necessary for you to progress into the game, and definitely not a reason to quit the game if you otherwise enjoy it. Most PUGs are successful and most people are friendly (especially if you preemptively say you are new and would like to go a bit slower). When you finally hit vet dungeons, things will also improve, because on vet mode players usually queue for the right role, don't rush or quit afaik, it's usually on random normals that you see shenanigans, because of the XP/transmutes.

Bobargus

I agree. Why buy dlcs, when the game is moreso reliant on players themselves, instead of offering additional gameplay options, such as a solo dungeon mode?

I mean, in SWTOR, you can do solo flashpoints (dungeons). Better yet, those flashpoints, solo and normal 4 man groups, have in-game healing items that are conveniently placed where the bosses are. This eliminates the idea of having to rely on other roles just to play a content, as well.

CrispyWalrus

I don't PUG for that reason. I've got a good guild and know the folks who like to go slow and find the chests and hs like I do. At worst three of us will pick up a PUG and very rarely one might get invited to our always full weekly culled guild if they differ from the norm PUGger. We're having our 6th birthday party next weekend for our guild. Best advice is treat a guild like you would finding a PCP. Shop around but know what your criteria are.

SedoUmbra

If your free time is limited, you may not want to do this, but I recommend checking out guides on content you haven't yet completed. For two reasons. One, because some dungeons have complex mechanics that are a real pain to explain over text without committing 3 hours to it. And two, because some dungeons are available to play far too early (imo) when the player really is in no way equipped for them.

Certain dungeons, for example, Moongrave Fane are brutal on inexperienced or ill-equipped players and it can turn a 40 minute run into multiple hours with just 1 out of the 4 players not being ready for it. If you can even complete it at all. And it sounds like you don't have the time for this either.

I don't like the idea that people can leave without repercussions and I never leave dungeons first. But I really sympathise if people don't have much time themselves or have played the dungeon and explained it's mechanics 1000 times, they may not want to be bothered with someone who has random sets, green gear, a random assortment of abilities on their bar trying to run Moongrave, or Scalecaller on Veteran just because the game will allow them to without considering if they are really going to be able to contribute or if they are asking 3 complete strangers to give up their time to drag them kicking and screaming to the end of the dungeon. These are 2 dungeons where you could quite easily spent all of your allotted gaming time on just the first boss if you go in unprepared.

Gray_howling_parrot

Sarannah wrote: »

First off, welcome to the game! Glad to hear you are having fun.

At the moment, the normal dungeons(MMO part of the game), is having an issue where veteran players rush through only for the rewards. Meaning the MMO part of the game needs quite some work from ZOS, but I do not know if they ever will do this. As far as I know, ZOS has never really addressed the issues players experience in normal dungeons.

But don't let that stop you from playing or having fun, try to find a guild who wants to do the MMO parts of the game normally. This will also make your time in the game more valuable/fun.

Welcome to the game, and enjoy your stay!

PS: Don't feel bad if a group does not work out, it happens. Just go again!

I agree with this very much! I think a large part of the reasoning for this (being a veteran player myself) stems from the reward structure for doing normal vs veteran content. There is VERY little incentive to do veteran content (dungeon wise) outside of monster masks, added challenge (which isn’t sustainable by itself) and the skin here and there. The problem is that you get EQUAL XP and transmutes from doing your random daily dungeon on normal and veteran. So, why would you do a random veteran outside of fun? If you’re a veteran player trying to get your daily transmute stones and XP, you’re going to fake tank or fake heal for a quick queue (not what i do; but it explains the majority of this problem), steamroll the dungeon and get your rewards quickly. This would all be addressed HEAVILY if they decreased rewards for a random normal (transmute wise and xp wise) and heavily buffed veteran randoms. Idk why they’ve never done this. This would incentivize people to try veteran content and would excite me more about doing it.

When I play a tank or healer I prefer random vets because TYPICALLY the players are experienced, it’s more challenging and fun to me (i love helping out new players, but sometimes actually tanking a random normal takes a long time and like you mentioned, some people have lots of characters and want to get it done quickly - i mediate this by doing veteran randoms on support toons); but as a dps I usually just look for 3 more dps, then we queue and steamroll it.

ESO’s biggest problem has been and always will be it’s reward structure. I’m not saying i think ZOS is a terrible company or anything, but ZOS seems to be absolutely clueless from this perspective and I’ve never understood it considering so many of them play their game.

valenwood_vegan

First off, I'm sorry that OP had frustrating group finder experiences. I hear this a lot. The best thing is to find a guild and/or some like-minded players to run dungeons with. That way, everyone knows what to expect from each other. Unfortunately, the random group finder throws completely random people together with completely different levels of skill, different motivations and goals, etc. The results are often not going to be great.

One thing is to try and communicate with the group when you all first port in, about things like whether you need the quest... whether you need help with the mechs... Some will absolutely slow down and help, some leave the dungeon / vote kick / go running off on a speed run before you can even type "need quest" in chat... again this is completely random luck of the draw.

Myself and many of the more veteran players I know rarely or never use the group finder because of the randomness. It's not even that we're never willing to slow down and help newer (or new to *that* dungeon) players... we do this a lot... but we often don't have unlimited time and we need to know what we're getting into. And need to know that there's going to be some communication between everyone involved.

Introducing punishments and restrictions to the group finder to try and control the behavior of random people is unfortunately likely to result in even fewer joining the queue, so I'm not sure the problem can be solved this way. (Not that I'm suggesting it isn't worth trying to come up with ideas for a solution - just that they can introduce as many problems as they solve).

Best advice is to shop around for a guild and / or when you *do* meet good people in a random group, try to friend them and politely ask if they might want to run some more future dungeons. When you do get a good group together, it's a lot of fun so my other advice I guess is, don't give up because of some bad random experiences.

Remember that this is the internet and random people are random people - don't expect too much of them. Take control of your experience, don't leave it up random strangers!

Veinblood1965

I have ran into this when I used to run dungeons. Most of the time it was the tank leaving right off the bat. Perhaps make it 15 minutes wait for the first time you leave, then 30 for the second and 45 for the third and then you're out until 24 hours is up.

VaranisArano

This may be a dumb question, but are you queuing up for Normal or Veteran difficulty to do your pledges?

Tanks and healers leaving mid-Pledge is usually a problem with the group having low DPS or struggling on mechanics (which are bigger problems on Veteran) or being unlikely to succeed at Hard Mode for the extra rewards.

Daoin

me usually 1 random vet on all my characters due to not being able to enjoy a non stressful normal anymore i'll take my chances in vet then depending how i feel pledges on those too also always vet, used to enjoy normal until they all became a one man dps show i'd rather take my chances in vet at pledges that its a good group and nobody is going to be throwing around thier dps add on or on a fake role

Vulkunne

Ixilduur wrote: »

Hi all. I wanted to share some of my thoughts given that we have some time before servers go back up. This post is just my opinion and don't have to be the same for all new players. If the mods think this post should be in another location please do so as this is my very first post and wanted to share some of the ins and out as a new player.

Firstly, I have played many games and MMOs over the years but thanks to my friends deiced to give it a go. In general terms I really enjoyed my first month , game is full of content and story lines that is amazing how much time can be put into the game.

But,...after getting the ESO+ sub and getting the new exp and DLCS got finally to lvl 50 and low CP levels and decided to queue up for dungeons as the rewards seem legit as well as getting those undaunted pledges done. Little I knew after the first few days I noticed a decent amount of players quitting the party half way trough or just before the last boss and I didn't know why would that be, and always was either the tank or the healer. After waiting for sometimes 40+ min in queue and then not even finishing the dungeon I could not get my pledges or random daily's done as I have little over 1 hour of gaming a day.
This completely threw me off of the game and just continued to focus on questing and doing solo content around the map.

So I have a question for you out there, how many have this issue where you have limited time to enjoy the game and try to do daily group content for the rewards but get your experience ruined from the actions of some. One of the affected players even mentioned that this is commonly done by highly CP geared players that want to rush the dungeon and then quit if not done fast enough because they only get 15 min cooldown to wait for another!!

Do you think game devs should punish this behavior of those players and make it at least a full day cooldown for dungeons with all their characters? Why not? Why get into group content if you are not willing to play as a team, why not going solo if they are so confident?

I also wanted to thank you those that were patient enough to guide me trough the boss mechanics, because there are always helpful players, specially those from my guild. Not always we have guildies to do group content and we all want to enjoy the game.

So this got me thinking and wonder why would I invest into ESO+ or getting DLCS in the future if I am not going to be able to get those dungeons, rewards and gear to progress in the game.
I really hope this gets looked into it by the dev team and do something about it.
Thanks for your reading.

First, welcome to the game.

Secondly, this 'phenomena' you're experiencing isn't new and has been discussed in depth on other threads as well so if that interests you may want to go back and checkout some of those prior discussions.

With that said, allow me to sort of recap how some of these conversations have gone in the past. For one thing, its wrong to place blame for this behavior on veteran players. Because anyone can rush thru a dungeon or try to solo it at the expense of the group, its wrong to point a finger at veterans of the game and suggest because something is going wrong its your fault for putting too much time and money into the game. Thats not a nice thing to do and it happens way too often. Also, just because someone has the means to solo a 4 man run doesn't make them a vet. Having mythic items does not make you a vet. This is a problem I kind of have with dumb things like Oakensouls but that's a discussion for another day.

Next we have the problem itself. So again, the first thing we need to stop and consider aside from the behavior itself is what is enabling them to do this? And the answer is changes from ZOS from the last two or three years. Specifically mythic items, such as Pale Order, among many others, which have affected the game's PvE culture by eliminating the need for everyone's role in what was once a traditional group. In Engrish this means because of things, like Pale Order, though not limited to just that mythic, we don't need healers. Just do enough damage and the role in certain runs becomes obsolete. Any role, not necessarily healers, this is just one example.

I remember the good ol days when it was different and the was a centricity to groups where everyone had to know their role and know something about the run. Alas, this is still somewhat true, but only for the hardest content which life is too short and the casual gamer, including myself, really doesn't have as much time for. Another thing to add to that is people have grown impatient because of similar reasons. They want someone who can carry them, they are not looking for a participant experience they want someone with all the mythics and dps that can just wizard thru it. This outlook is not completely wrong as there is no substitute for good DPS, yet because of ZOS changes the expectation is you will bring good DPS or you will not come at all. Gone are the days of random vagabons and Orc Captains suffering thru it. Deliver instant wholesome DPS or get lost. I don't agree with it but this is how it is now.

So with all this said, in my time here I've led many a PvE Group, still do this on occasion and because of my experience I think thats what gets us thru. Yet many times it comes down to our DPS and that same experience winning the day rather than a cohesive group contribution. Lots of people want to be carried and sadly there's not alot that can be done here, not if you want to simply get thru it and not reset the group for every 'carry' that shuffles thru the door.

PvP is still fun... for now. So if that interests you c'mon over to BGs or Cyrodilly. I'd wait on going to IC until you can make it in Cyrodiil at least. Anyways, hope this helps and best of luck with the game.

FeedbackOnly

You shouldn't queue for veteran dungeons till at very least cp 160. Game scales poorly for unde levels after 50.

The consequences of update 35 is most people under leveled do poor damage. They left because the group was subpar and were probably looking at you

The other problem is real tanks and Healers don't matter as much as dps in development so less in queue.

disintegr8

I think running random dungeons with all DLC unlocked early in the game is a bit of a risk. This is simply because a lot of the DLC dungeons are 'harder' content, compared to non-DLC dungeons, requiring more damage and knowledge of mechanics.

Coming in at low CP, you probably haven't got great weapon/armour sets, maybe are still learning your role/build, are possibly still leveling up some of your skill lines and have never run the dungeon before.

Many people who group randomly only want their daily random or maybe their undaunted completed, so they don't want it to take any longer than necessary. You can't really say they're in the wrong but a bit of consideration for others wouldn't go astray.

I only queue for specific dungeons if I'm after something from that dungeon and haven't run a true random in years. When I do queue, I'll always wait and see if anyone is picking up the quest and if they do, will wait at the various points along the way that I know they need to talk to someone, then give them time to hand in the quest at the end.

I have been guilty of leaving dungeons when on my healer but usually it's before or on the first boss. If you're running normal, are 15 minutes in and haven't cleared the first boss yet, you know the groups not strong enough. If I was on a DPS I'd keep going, but not on a real healer or tank with minimal DPS.

vsrs_au

Perhaps we need a reverse of the current rubber-band effect, where players get pulled along with the group, in which players who go through the dungeon TOO fast get yanked back to the slower members of the group!
(just [half] joking, btw)

Sheezabeast

I would overall recommend finding a crafter to make you some 5 piece sets you can use until you use Guild Finder to find a guild to join so you can form 4 person parties easier and quicker. There are lots of options for basic DPS, basic Tanking, and basic Healing that are craftable that can get you by until you can grind out your dungeon armors.

petanko

There are guilds dedicated to relaxed/storymode dungeons and other stuff. They're worth checking.
Also, when applying to the generic guild, don't be seduced by 500 members - huge guilds often aren't different from zone chat or PUG. Small, friendly guild with about 20 active players is all what you need. 500 members are good only for trading guilds.

Gnesnig

I have to say it's not always intentional. Last night the game crashed to desktop at one of the last bosses. I couldn't log back in for at least 5 minutes, kept getting error 300 and then my time was over as I had to go.
It's hard to know the cause of someone going offline.

Of course, if they leave the group intentionally it's another thing and I've done that as well with groups that just rush and don't care about people not being able to catch up. They keep being in combat, kill the boss and only then others can rez, so they miss out on the loot of the bosses as they're too far away. Many veterans seem to not care that others still have an uncompleted stickerbook or are looking for a lead that can drop off of any mob.

Also, you don't actually gain much time in many of these dungens unless the entire group can keep up. The time gained by skipping all trash mobs till you get to the boss is in many cases not worth the trouble and frustration it causes for others (if there is a gain at all). As a tank I usually group 2 or 3 trash groups, this allows ultimates to be charged, you don't have to wait for doors to open by crouching as you actually kill everything and you can may do the no death flag, which often requires you to kill everything. And if you have one or more DPS with Occult Overload and AoE damage, it's going to be done quickly.

Anyway - I understand OP's frustration and the best advice I can give is to actually drop ESO+. This means you won't have access to DLC dungeons and so you don't get queued for it. Focus on the normal dungeons till stickerbook of thoese is complete and by that time you will have plenty of CP's to start doing DLC's.

Grizzbeorn

Vulkunne wrote: »

This is a problem I kind of have with dumb things like Oakensouls but that's a discussion for another day.

You're doing the same thing you are asking him not to do.
Calling things that you don't personally like "dumb" (hence by extension, also the people who use them) is, to use your own words, not a nice thing to do.

LatentBuzzard

Jaustink wrote: »

This would all be addressed HEAVILY if they decreased rewards for a random normal (transmute wise and xp wise) and heavily buffed veteran randoms. Idk why they’ve never done this. This would incentivize people to try veteran content and would excite me more about doing it.

The result of this change would be far more people joining veteran dungeon runs hoping for a carry so that they can get the increased rewards. Whichever way you go, you're just shifting the problem slightly.

Gnesnig

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

This would all be addressed HEAVILY if they decreased rewards for a random normal (transmute wise and xp wise) and heavily buffed veteran randoms. Idk why they’ve never done this. This would incentivize people to try veteran content and would excite me more about doing it.

The result of this change would be far more people joining veteran dungeon runs hoping for a carry so that they can get the increased rewards. Whichever way you go, you're just shifting the problem slightly.

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

fizl101

Gnesnig wrote: »

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

This would all be addressed HEAVILY if they decreased rewards for a random normal (transmute wise and xp wise) and heavily buffed veteran randoms. Idk why they’ve never done this. This would incentivize people to try veteran content and would excite me more about doing it.

The result of this change would be far more people joining veteran dungeon runs hoping for a carry so that they can get the increased rewards. Whichever way you go, you're just shifting the problem slightly.

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

Not everyone is able to solo dungeons. How would they do their pledges? There are also base game dungeons that can't really be solo'd without some adjustments if at all like Wayrest 2, Blackheart Haven

Vulkunne

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

This is a problem I kind of have with dumb things like Oakensouls but that's a discussion for another day.

You're doing the same thing you are asking him not to do.
Calling things that you don't personally like "dumb" (hence by extension, also the people who use them) is, to use your own words, not a nice thing to do.

Well hang on there. There's a difference in thinking a set is dumb because of the way it works and placing blame on a part of the community itself whom you personally don't like. There are many sets in this game I think are dumb for various reasons. For example, its dumb to use a set like Oakensouls in a build that is not intended for it. Its dumb for too much power to be given to a one-piece item set when there's so much the game has to offer already. That's not just an opinion that is something I can prove mathematically and logically because not using a set properly provides less Synergy and Oakensouls itself has so many buffs it virtually makes certain skills as well as other sets unnecessary. So why have them? That's what I think is dumb, not the person using it.

It's not the players fault that ZOS produced this set.

valenwood_vegan

Gnesnig wrote: »

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

So people without eso plus just don't get to queue anymore at all? (EDIT: I guess they'd get to do WGT and ICP endlessly :P)

What about new characters (which immediately get to apply all of your CP)?

What about the benefits of having more experienced players in the queue? Many of us do actually help new players out.

And yeah, not everyone can solo everything. I could not solo many base game dungeons on vet at cp 1600. In fact, there were many I hadn't even tried on vet yet at 1600... We're not all super elite. This game isn't my job. CP alone is a rather poor indicator of someone's proficiency at combat.

Be careful what you wish for... these kinds of one-size-fits-all restrictions have lots of consequences, and are likely only going to cause fewer and fewer people to use the group finder.

rpa

First pack enough tankiness, self heal and sustain you can solo few easiest world bosses. Walk in normal FG1 or Spindleclutch and if you can kill the first trash group you can very likely solo it, bosses and all. Do it again and work on your DPS until it does not take too long. Then its just a matte keeping on it, going trough soloable base game dungeons, getting slightly better and tweaking your skills and gear as you go.
Problem with soloing is a solo build is not very good in group and it does not give experience how to deal mechanics in non-soloable and veteran content so joining a friendly social guild and doing dungeons in groups (preferably in similar power level) would be better earlier than later.

Gnesnig

fizl101 wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

LatentBuzzard wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

This would all be addressed HEAVILY if they decreased rewards for a random normal (transmute wise and xp wise) and heavily buffed veteran randoms. Idk why they’ve never done this. This would incentivize people to try veteran content and would excite me more about doing it.

The result of this change would be far more people joining veteran dungeon runs hoping for a carry so that they can get the increased rewards. Whichever way you go, you're just shifting the problem slightly.

So perhaps the solution should be reversed: once you make 1600CP (which is generally regarded as the point at which 4 slots and all actives can be obtained per CP tree)), you loose access to *queue* for anything but DLC dungeons. Even on vet, the normal dungeons can be soloed and so there's generally no patience or regard for the others in the group.

Not everyone is able to solo dungeons. How would they do their pledges? There are also base game dungeons that can't really be solo'd without some adjustments if at all like Wayrest 2, Blackheart Haven

Like I said, you can't queue, doesn't mean you can't do them with a group you form yourself. An alternative would be that you get 3 DLC pledges. It should be plenty of time to your flags and gear done and it removes tons of people from the queue that don't need them any more and frankly, are bored as hell with them, which causes the bad attitude to begin with.

There will always be corner cases, but as said, it only affects the queue, not the option to them if you want to.

Gnesnig

valenwood_vegan wrote: »

Gnesnig wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for... these kinds of one-size-fits-all restrictions have lots of consequences, and are likely only going to cause fewer and fewer people to use the group finder.

And how many do you think are not using group finder any more because the experience is just plain bad. I don't on NA any more, cause it's drama over 90% of the time. On EU it's a coinflip to have a good group, so that's still doable.

Castagere

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

sarahthes

Castagere wrote: »

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

This is categorically false.

Elsonso

Castagere wrote: »

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

Exsqueeze me?

I don't think that anyone "controls" the group content in the game.

disintegr8

Castagere wrote: »

This is so sad about the group content in this game. It's controlled by the elitist players in the best gold gear. I always tell people that ask me about the game. If you love the single-player TES games then they should only play this game like that.

What a ridiculous statement, presumably you've been wronged by someone and have decided to tar everyone with the same brush.

Group content is available to all, be it dungeons or trials. Harder content, like vet DLC dungeons and trials, require you to make some effort by equipping half decent gear and bringing something to the team, like knowledge about your role and some skill in your role. If you're new to the content, it is recommended that you find a guild that holds training runs.

Someone calling in zone for people with a certain DPS number, or specifying a healer with X, Y or Z gear, to run a vet trial is not elitist, probably just desperate. Calling for people in zone chat is basically running a random group, you take whatever is offered.