Have game creators abandoned Stamina builds?

master_vanargand

Only Magicka builds are better in most cases.
DPS? Magicka. Healer? Magicka. Tank? Hybrid.
Where do you use Stamina builds in PvE? Answer: nothing.
PvP? Yes, magicka. Do heals stack!
Oh my Sithis ... Have game creators abandoned Stamina builds?

Anti_Virus

Pretty much, almost all end game PVE content is significantly easier on Magic builds

i11ionward

Hybridization...

shadyjane62

i11ionward wrote: »

Hybridization...

I resist this. All magicka all the time.

master_vanargand

i11ionward wrote: »

Hybridization...

Hybridization?
No, it's Magickadization.

Daoin

all my main dd's are stamina, its great dont feel abandoned at all but if your looking for a push in over all performance to improve it even more then im all for it, please single out all stamina skills and make the better and stronger and cost less stamina to use.

TheKaan

master_vanargand wrote: »

Where do you use Stamina builds in PvE? Answer: nothing.

Actually, the answer is "everything and everywhere".

Since hybridisation (over a year ago) Stamina DPS has often outperformed Magicka in optimised conditions. Magicka Dragonknight and Magicka Templar are still more popular than their Stamina counterparts even at the top tier, and in more casual groups I'm sure you see mag players everywhere because of Oakensoul and various other trends that make them popular. But popularity and power are not always the same. The highest single target damage belongs to Stamina DPS. If only because Medium Armor and melee weapons are slightly stronger and are an easier fit with Stamina setups.

Player knowledge and skill is vastly more important than max resource in determining damage output.

The bad news: I'm not sure this complaint is totally valid.
The good news: you can definitely keep playing Stamina!

kojou

What is a stamina build?

master_vanargand

kojou wrote: »

What is a stamina build?

Magicka 0
Health 0
Stamina 64

Most of the time, PvE Stamina DPS builds are the above.
There are various types of sets and skills, so I won't explain them here.

ixthUA

Heavy attack oakensoul builds (very popular now) are stamina, as magicka is useless outside of casting spells.

Chufu

Yeah Magicka Builds are probably easier to play, but they almost always have been tbh, especially with the dmg absorb shield from Light Armor skillline.

Stamina has been always my favorite though and it's still usable for most content with different builds, so I can't see any major flaw atm or that it's unplayable.

Would still be fun to see a viable Stamina-Healer-Warden build (with the mushroom morph e.g.). But in comparison to Magicka for Healers it's not really an option to go full Stamina.

But in regards to DPS I guess have to wait and see, but so far I saw a lot of videos already showing that Stam-Builds are still viable in arenas and the new chapter, so nothing yet to worry about I guess. But you can take it as a personal challenge to go with a Stam Build into raids and outperform the Magicka users just for fun, let's go! xD

Soarora

Stamina was meta not long ago. It switches back and forth, though right now I’ve heard stamsorc is good still?

master_vanargand

TheKaan wrote: »

master_vanargand wrote: »

Where do you use Stamina builds in PvE? Answer: nothing.

Actually, the answer is "everything and everywhere".

Since hybridisation (over a year ago) Stamina DPS has often outperformed Magicka in optimised conditions. Magicka Dragonknight and Magicka Templar are still more popular than their Stamina counterparts even at the top tier, and in more casual groups I'm sure you see mag players everywhere because of Oakensoul and various other trends that make them popular. But popularity and power are not always the same. The highest single target damage belongs to Stamina DPS. If only because Medium Armor and melee weapons are slightly stronger and are an easier fit with Stamina setups.

Player knowledge and skill is vastly more important than max resource in determining damage output.

The bad news: I'm not sure this complaint is totally valid.
The good news: you can definitely keep playing Stamina!

However, Magicka DPS has an advantage in Trials and HM DLC.

ixthUA wrote: »

Heavy attack oakensoul builds (very popular now) are stamina, as magicka is useless outside of casting spells.

Oakensoul builds are not top meta and will be nerfed in this update.

Chufu

master_vanargand wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Heavy attack oakensoul builds (very popular now) are stamina, as magicka is useless outside of casting spells.

Oakensoul builds are not top meta and will be nerfed in this update.

Mh yeah but only Empower by 10%, right? Rest stays, so Oakensoul will still be viable to use with the new chapter, which is cool to see also for players who are not that strong with "normal" weaving builds or have issues weaving or simply want a good alternative (survival vs. dps) for Trifectas or similar.

RodneyRegis

ixthUA wrote: »

Heavy attack oakensoul builds (very popular now) are stamina, as magicka is useless outside of casting spells.

Wha?

Those spells are strengthened massively by max mag from attributes, enchantments and food.

RodneyRegis

Top parses on Discord servers, logs are usually stam parses.

Of course, a lot of endgame content is much harder in melee than it is in range, but that's been the case for years. Stam generally hits harder at the moment.

ixthUA

master_vanargand wrote: »

Oakensoul builds are not top meta and will be nerfed in this update.

Empower was 180%, will be 170%. 170/180*100=94.4% of former power, but people cast abilities between heavy attacks, so nerf will be even weaker.

RodneyRegis wrote: »

Wha?
Those spells are strengthened massively by max mag from attributes, enchantments and food.

Damage scales from what is highest, so if you dont cast a lot of magicka spells - magicka is useless, while stamina can break free, roll dodge and sprint.

React

Hybridization killed build diversity.

Most people are under the opposite impression - more skills to choose from, so there should be more builds, right?

The reality is that the BIS skill and set choices are much clearer than before, and there is a much larger gap between BIS choices and "off meta" choices than there used to be. With hybridization you are just nerfing yourself by not building to utilize the best morphs of every skill, regardless of cost. This results in everyone using more or less the same abilities and sets, thus resulting in less diversity.

Additionally, hybridization itself was done in a very lazy way. They standardized the tooltips of everything across the game, and then just applied dynamic scaling to everything. They should have done a thoughtful pass on everything, considering things like "should everyone have access to spammable burst heals" or "should everyone have access to an unrestricted strong HOT (vigor), or "should we increase the effectiveness of certain stamina morphs".

Hybridization could have been great for the game, if zenimax cared to properly balance it. But the end result of their poorly implemented hybrid system is that there is effectively 6 classes now instead of 12 like before, and thus you're going to primarily see hybrid content as opposed to stamina or magicka specific builds.

AScarlato

I prefer specialization to hybridization. Oh well.

Naftal

Pretty much all other classes except DK and sorc use stamina builds.

shukkig4

Stamina dds are better than magicka with the exception of DK.
Stamblade, stamplar, stamden and stamsorc are all stronger than their mag counterparts and necro is identical for both of them, except you can use Coral much easier on stamcro than magcro. It just so happens that magdk are also a top dd for like a year now (with exception of High Isle where stamcro was performing slightly better).

Honestly not sure why everyone is still trying to claim that magicka is easier to play than stam, when literally every class is being played melee and basically both mag and stam are using the exact same skills. The concept of mag being easier than stam should've died long time ago and playing ranged is irrelevant in most content. Like seriously, in vRG and vDSR, only Bahsei could potentially be slightly easier on ranged setup since you have more time to react to curse from tank, other than that, all other fights are melee fights.

sarahthes

shukkig4 wrote: »

Honestly not sure why everyone is still trying to claim that magicka is easier to play than stam, when literally every class is being played melee and basically both mag and stam are using the exact same skills. The concept of mag being easier than stam should've died long time ago and playing ranged is irrelevant in most content. Like seriously, in vRG and vDSR, only Bahsei could potentially be slightly easier on ranged setup since you have more time to react to curse from tank, other than that, all other fights are melee fights.

The light armour shield!

Oh wait.

Necrotech_Master

i much prefer stam focused builds

its the best way to ignore negates lol (and yes, NPCs have negates too, not just a pvp thing)

NuarBlack

React wrote: »

Hybridization killed build diversity.

Most people are under the opposite impression - more skills to choose from, so there should be more builds, right?

The reality is that the BIS skill and set choices are much clearer than before, and there is a much larger gap between BIS choices and "off meta" choices than there used to be. With hybridization you are just nerfing yourself by not building to utilize the best morphs of every skill, regardless of cost. This results in everyone using more or less the same abilities and sets, thus resulting in less diversity.

Additionally, hybridization itself was done in a very lazy way. They standardized the tooltips of everything across the game, and then just applied dynamic scaling to everything. They should have done a thoughtful pass on everything, considering things like "should everyone have access to spammable burst heals" or "should everyone have access to an unrestricted strong HOT (vigor), or "should we increase the effectiveness of certain stamina morphs".

Hybridization could have been great for the game, if zenimax cared to properly balance it. But the end result of their poorly implemented hybrid system is that there is effectively 6 classes now instead of 12 like before, and thus you're going to primarily see hybrid content as opposed to stamina or magicka specific builds.

Hybridization should have only happened to damage skills, not heals and utilities.

Also, all the skills that were exceptions to their rule sets needed a once over to make sure they didn't become broken by Hybridization.

I wanted Hybridization so badly but it's execution was poorly done.

acastanza_ESO

Naftal wrote: »

Pretty much all other classes except DK and sorc use stamina builds.

StamSorc is by far the strongest Sorc. Like, its not even close.
MagSorc is basically only "best" for 1bar HA builds.

BlueRaven

I just want to know what the HASorc equivalent is when using a bow, or dw, or with a 2hander.

That would be nice.

And yes, a HASorc uses stam, but it does not even need the stam really. And once a build uses a destruction staff, that reads “Mag build” to me, even if no points are actually set into Mag.

So to answer the OP’s question, yeah to me “classic (pure?)” stam builds feel a bit neglected, but that is better than being nerfed like HASorcs are getting nerfed (via the oak ring plus storm master set).

merpins

Only stam build I find to be better than the magicka variant is a bleed warden, and that's still hybrid. The rest aren't very good at the moment. I think Arcanist will be fine as a stam build, since its skills scale off of the higher of your resource stats, but that isn't the same as other classes since you can do whatever with your DPS skills on that class, and giving a ton of versatility in that regard.

Drako_Ei

All this Hybridization did was make everyone magicka with dual daggers frontbar and 2h sword backbar

sneakymitchell

kojou wrote: »

What is a stamina build?

Using physical harm jewelry glyph when it gives you stamina recovery even if it’s 10. With also main stat pool is stamina base. You will still use some magic but focus is stamina abilities.

Same for magicka builds. Just probably fewer stamina skills to use which they have problem with substain if there is magic steal debuff on target

virtus753

RodneyRegis wrote: »

ixthUA wrote: »

Heavy attack oakensoul builds (very popular now) are stamina, as magicka is useless outside of casting spells.

Wha?

Those spells are strengthened massively by max mag from attributes, enchantments and food.

And which of them doesn’t scale dynamically with your highest offensive stat now?

As far as I was aware they finally hybridized the last three holdouts for offensive skills (including Power of the Light) a couple of updates ago. Max stam vs. max mag doesn’t matter for the scaling of hybridized skills. It does matter for a build in the big picture in terms of sustain, armor/set choice, etc. But not for scaling alone.