Please don't let this item go live as it is!

StarOfElyon

Most of the mythics that I would consider to be balanced are equal to a 5-piece bonus on a set. I think the following are few good examples of balanced mythics:

Death Dealer's Fete
Markyn ring
Mora's Whispers
Gaze of Sithis (prevents you from wearing a monster set)
Wild Hunt Ring
Torc of tonal constancy


The few which I listed which might offer overloaded stats come with a big drawback. In it's current state, I think even Oakensoul is now balanced. So I know the ZOS devs can balance items. Now there's another in need of balancing, from a PvP standpoint:

Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet
Adds 4968 Offensive Penetration, Increase your damage done to monsters by 15%, Critical Damage by 15%, and reduce your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 99%.

This is way more than any unconditional set bonus currently in the game. It's way too much to not have a requirement to meet.

4968 Offensive Penetration and 15% critical damage at what cost? You can't do much damage with light attacks? Big deal; I rarely see a light attack on my death recap. This is a gankers dream. And it is just plain cracked on any build. So let's just avoid tormenting the players with more busted items for months and let's balance this thing NOW PLEASE.

merpins

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

Stx

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Ecgberht_confused

StarOfElyon wrote: »

This is a gankers dream.

It really is not! The 15% damage done is against monsters only, so doesn't apply against players in PvP. So only the pen and crit damage apply. Compare that with what Sea serpent gives you for example. Also with the base crit resist everyone has and a few pieces impen, crit damage isn't a fantastic stat anyway.

I doubt people will wear this at all in pvp. Also won't be useful in high end PvE since both pen and crit damage will be at cap in any organised group anyway. It only seems useful in mid level solo pve. That is if it's not nerfed any further and reaches live stillborn.

Turtle_Bot

It seems fine as is.

Provides a good middle ground alternative to traditional LA weaving piano builds that's not "hold left mouse button" HA.
Parses in between top end HA builds and top end LA weaving builds.
Allows players to learn proper weaving without dropping considerable damage.

I would agree with you if it was a flat +15% damage to everything, but with that part limited to monsters only, crit damage that is only slightly above the CP and minor force and the pen being lower than major breach, it seems fine compared to other mythics.

It's only going to really see play in a couple of scenarios:
1. an alternative over sea serpents for highly mobile crit builds
2. an alternative pure damage mythic for those with high enough ping that weaving is extremely hard to reliably perform.

Overall sea serpents seems better in general for most players in PvP (especially those on the meta classes such as DK and lesser extent warden who either sit and tank or have snare immunity built in to mitigate SSC snare) and markyn and DDF are still good options too by providing a solid mix of offense and defense.

gariondavey

I think what you guys are missing is the stat density of this item is crazy for pvp. You can just change you dw axes to dw maces on nb or drop shadow mundas for a regen one or lover or whatever.
This mythic looks crazy strong.

ebix_

15% crit damage and 5k pen, this is unnamed buff and that makes it even more powerful! so you can replace sea serpent and still get major courage from someone.

Thecompton73

Oh no, people might actually die once in a while in PvP, the horror, the horror.

Ecgberht_confused

For PvP (where the 15% damage done doesn't apply) there's quite a few playstyles where this ring just doesn't make sense to use:

1- magsorc (ranged) often rely on Overload which makes up about 25% of your burst (that's what I always use in pvp). With this mythic you lose those 25% and you don't get the 15% compensation + the opportunity cost of using a mythic. The pen and crit damage doesn't even come close to make up for that.

2- NBs that rely on Assassins Will already have to LA weave to build stacks. They lose all the damage from this weaving and don't get the 15% damage done compensation.

3- stamsorc often use crystal weapon have to weave to deliver it's damage. They lose the LA portion without getting the compensation.

4- same for anyone who uses crushing weapon, whether as spammable or pre burst.

5- any bow build also have to weave LA for the up to 25% bonus to bow abilities they can stack. While they retain that bonus, they lose the LA damage without the 15% compensation.

That's a lot of playstyles that won't make full use of this mythic. Just reading the stats and saying it's too high doesn't really give the full picture. I personally wouldn't use it for either pve or pvp on my magsorc main as it is, but I'd be keen on trying it out for an arcanist pve build, assuming it makes it to live as it is.

StarOfElyon

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Oh no, people might actually die once in a while in PvP, the horror, the horror.

Imagine asking for balance right lol

StarOfElyon

gariondavey wrote: »

I think what you guys are missing is the stat density of this item is crazy for pvp. You can just change you dw axes to dw maces on nb or drop shadow mundas for a regen one or lover or whatever.
This mythic looks crazy strong.

Right. Again, these stats are unconditional currently. Way too strong.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Stx wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Easy you also get less ultimate and enchant proc due to no light attack

StarOfElyon

merpins wrote: »

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

Even the almost 5k pen alone is bigger than any unconditional 5-piece set bonus. It's still unbalanced. I wish it could be PvE only but we know that won't happen. I would have no issue with it if it PvE only.

For PvP, I would balance this by making the item add 1240 penetration and 5% crit damage per 3-piece set bonus worn, making it essentially a full damage Markyn ring.

aaisoaho

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Easy you also get less ultimate and enchant proc due to no light attack

Velothi-Ur's amulet does not prevent light attacking, and light attack weaving still outperforms not weaving while using rhe amulet. This is because the light attacks can proc the enchants and give the ultigen.

Now, reducing the light attack damage by 99% also reduces the burstiness of your damage, because the light attacks should be constant ticks of damage you do. So, for content requiring damage bursts, the amulet might not be as good as you'd might imagine. For longer duration fights, it should be good.

In PVE, most of the time it won't outperform kilt. Yes, the light attack damage is 7-10% of your DPS, but wearing the amulet means you also lose the mythic slot, because the amulet is your mythic. Kilt adds more DPS than what you would gain from reducing 7-10% of your DPS by 99% while increasing other DPS by 15%. If you, however, lack pen or critical damage, the amulet becomes favorable. The amulet will also be good with several targets (mainly trash fights), since the light attacks are single target damage, but the amulet can boost all of your damage.

ketsparrowhawk

For PvP purposes Malacath is a good comparison.

Malacath: +16% damage done. -50% crit damage.

• At a 30% crit rate (typical in pvp) that 50% crit damage would account for about 12% of the total damage output (after crit mitigation, etc.).
• So it's +16% damage minus 12% damage = 4% damage gained

Velothi:

• 5k pen = 7.5% damage assuming no pen cap
• 15% crit dmg = ~5% DPS assuming a 30% crit rate
• 7.5 + 5 = 12.5% DPS minus 10-12% DPS from losing light-attack damage = 0 - 2.5% damage gained.

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me. I may be singing a different tune after getting sniped a few times XD

StarOfElyon

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me.

That's what I'm saying. Losing light attack damage in pvp is nothing unless you're using something like crystal weapon. The curse in the "kiss-curse" is inconsequential.

ketsparrowhawk

...

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me.

That's what I'm saying. Losing light attack damage in pvp is nothing unless you're using something like crystal weapon. The curse in the "kiss-curse" is inconsequential.

Light attacks account for about 10% of your damage without crystal weapon or anything like that. Most builds do LA weave, and on those builds this mythic will essentially nullify itself. It will shine on certain builds and not on others. Just like Malacath shines or certain builds (dot/pressure builds) and not others.

StarOfElyon

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

...

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me.

That's what I'm saying. Losing light attack damage in pvp is nothing unless you're using something like crystal weapon. The curse in the "kiss-curse" is inconsequential.

Light attacks account for about 10% of your damage without crystal weapon or anything like that. Most builds do LA weave, and on those builds this mythic will essentially nullify itself. It will shine on certain builds and not on others. Just like Malacath shines or certain builds (dot/pressure builds) and not others.

Basically, if you don't have much of any crit chance, malacath is good. On all other builds, this mythic is cracked. As much as I think Sea Serpents is also overtuned, at least it has a requirement that you take damage in order to get those busted stats. That's another thing that has to be balanced. Velothi Ur-Mage is like, hey here's what is essentially major breach and minor force that can be stacked with major breach and major force out the gate. The damage loss from light and heavy attacks will be made up for by the burst that this item adds to ultimates and skills, especially when ganking out of stealth.

BlueRaven

aaisoaho wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Easy you also get less ultimate and enchant proc due to no light attack

Velothi-Ur's amulet does not prevent light attacking, and light attack weaving still outperforms not weaving while using rhe amulet. This is because the light attacks can proc the enchants and give the ultigen.

Now, reducing the light attack damage by 99% also reduces the burstiness of your damage, because the light attacks should be constant ticks of damage you do. So, for content requiring damage bursts, the amulet might not be as good as you'd might imagine. For longer duration fights, it should be good.

In PVE, most of the time it won't outperform kilt. Yes, the light attack damage is 7-10% of your DPS, but wearing the amulet means you also lose the mythic slot, because the amulet is your mythic. Kilt adds more DPS than what you would gain from reducing 7-10% of your DPS by 99% while increasing other DPS by 15%. If you, however, lack pen or critical damage, the amulet becomes favorable. The amulet will also be good with several targets (mainly trash fights), since the light attacks are single target damage, but the amulet can boost all of your damage.

Ha! The mythic that forum posters claimed was the answer for people who dislike weaving, requires weaving to make passible dps. “This will replace oak for casuals!” Nope!

So what exactly is the “point” of this mythic. To move around how dps numbers are produced on your attacks?

X gets nerfed, Y gets buffed, but your rotation and dps stays about the same!

This really seems like a “nice but why bother” mythic.

Afterip

4968 Offensive Penetration its ignore 7.5% mitigation and for me its not so huge bonus even with 15% crit damage, becouse -99% dmg with LA and HA very stronn minus. Mythic item is fine, dont touch them, but I am more afraid of another mythical item, a -50% incoming damage from hits and absorbing the stamina of the user.

ketsparrowhawk

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

...

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me.

That's what I'm saying. Losing light attack damage in pvp is nothing unless you're using something like crystal weapon. The curse in the "kiss-curse" is inconsequential.

Light attacks account for about 10% of your damage without crystal weapon or anything like that. Most builds do LA weave, and on those builds this mythic will essentially nullify itself. It will shine on certain builds and not on others. Just like Malacath shines or certain builds (dot/pressure builds) and not others.

Basically, if you don't have much of any crit chance, malacath is good. On all other builds, this mythic is cracked. As much as I think Sea Serpents is also overtuned, at least it has a requirement that you take damage in order to get those busted stats. That's another thing that has to be balanced. Velothi Ur-Mage is like, hey here's what is essentially major breach and minor force that can be stacked with major breach and major force out the gate. The damage loss from light and heavy attacks will be made up for by the burst that this item adds to ultimates and skills, especially when ganking out of stealth.

All other builds that are willing to give up 10% of their overall damage by losing light-attack damage + whatever damage they'd be getting from a different mythic. You will reach 30% crit rate without trying, so that much is a given.

ketsparrowhawk

It will be annoyingly strong on some builds but I don't think it will be "mandatory" for every pvp build the way original malacath was. Snipe/BEAMers and gankers will have a field day with it I'm sure.

aaisoaho

BlueRaven wrote: »

aaisoaho wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Easy you also get less ultimate and enchant proc due to no light attack

Velothi-Ur's amulet does not prevent light attacking, and light attack weaving still outperforms not weaving while using rhe amulet. This is because the light attacks can proc the enchants and give the ultigen.

Now, reducing the light attack damage by 99% also reduces the burstiness of your damage, because the light attacks should be constant ticks of damage you do. So, for content requiring damage bursts, the amulet might not be as good as you'd might imagine. For longer duration fights, it should be good.

In PVE, most of the time it won't outperform kilt. Yes, the light attack damage is 7-10% of your DPS, but wearing the amulet means you also lose the mythic slot, because the amulet is your mythic. Kilt adds more DPS than what you would gain from reducing 7-10% of your DPS by 99% while increasing other DPS by 15%. If you, however, lack pen or critical damage, the amulet becomes favorable. The amulet will also be good with several targets (mainly trash fights), since the light attacks are single target damage, but the amulet can boost all of your damage.

Ha! The mythic that forum posters claimed was the answer for people who dislike weaving, requires weaving to make passible dps. “This will replace oak for casuals!” Nope!

So what exactly is the “point” of this mythic. To move around how dps numbers are produced on your attacks?

X gets nerfed, Y gets buffed, but your rotation and dps stays about the same!

This really seems like a “nice but why bother” mythic.

It does help a bit those who are not yet consistent in their ability to weave. It does reduce the delta there. While the top end will be able to perform better with this mythic, the middle with some missed light attacks still gets a lot of oomph out of this. Missing the light attacks won't be as punishing when wearing this as it would be on other mythics.

The light attacks give you a hidden buff, that regenerates 3 ultimate points a second for 9 seconds (not sure for the exact duration of the buff). When your weaving is inconsistent and you miss some light attacks, this buff will still stay up easily. The difference will come from proccing the enchants. Perfectly weaving person has more chances to proc them, so their glyph uptime will be a bit better.

KingExecration

You’re right this mythic is absurd. Needs a change to be allowed in pvp.





Make it 10k pen. Anti tank gang.

Vulkunne

Its not that great really. Basically another version of Spriggan's set.

The greatest draw back is I can only have one Mythic and there are certain conditions that a build must meet in order to make better use of this.

I know on paper it looks good, but its troublesome to use with many builds because of the conflicts it creates.

BlueRaven

aaisoaho wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

aaisoaho wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

Have you tried it? It's a damage loss if you can LA weave properly for every class except Arcanist, which still does less dps on average than most other classes in PVE since it's pretty undertuned.

In pvp? "increase your damage done to monsters by 15%." So you only get the pen and crit damage. Gankers already hit the crit cap, so that's useless, just the pen is good. Just make it not work in PVP if it's causing problems. It's an item clearly designed for PVE anyway. But I haven't heard people having problems with it in PVP in the PTS yet.

The top end parses that I’ve seen show light attack damage at around 10-13% of your overall damage. How is this item a damage loss if it gives you a flat 15% boost ON TOP of 15% critical damage and tons of pen.

Easy you also get less ultimate and enchant proc due to no light attack

Velothi-Ur's amulet does not prevent light attacking, and light attack weaving still outperforms not weaving while using rhe amulet. This is because the light attacks can proc the enchants and give the ultigen.

Now, reducing the light attack damage by 99% also reduces the burstiness of your damage, because the light attacks should be constant ticks of damage you do. So, for content requiring damage bursts, the amulet might not be as good as you'd might imagine. For longer duration fights, it should be good.

In PVE, most of the time it won't outperform kilt. Yes, the light attack damage is 7-10% of your DPS, but wearing the amulet means you also lose the mythic slot, because the amulet is your mythic. Kilt adds more DPS than what you would gain from reducing 7-10% of your DPS by 99% while increasing other DPS by 15%. If you, however, lack pen or critical damage, the amulet becomes favorable. The amulet will also be good with several targets (mainly trash fights), since the light attacks are single target damage, but the amulet can boost all of your damage.

Ha! The mythic that forum posters claimed was the answer for people who dislike weaving, requires weaving to make passible dps. “This will replace oak for casuals!” Nope!

So what exactly is the “point” of this mythic. To move around how dps numbers are produced on your attacks?

X gets nerfed, Y gets buffed, but your rotation and dps stays about the same!

This really seems like a “nice but why bother” mythic.

It does help a bit those who are not yet consistent in their ability to weave. It does reduce the delta there. While the top end will be able to perform better with this mythic, the middle with some missed light attacks still gets a lot of oomph out of this. Missing the light attacks won't be as punishing when wearing this as it would be on other mythics.

The light attacks give you a hidden buff, that regenerates 3 ultimate points a second for 9 seconds (not sure for the exact duration of the buff). When your weaving is inconsistent and you miss some light attacks, this buff will still stay up easily. The difference will come from proccing the enchants. Perfectly weaving person has more chances to proc them, so their glyph uptime will be a bit better.

I was not criticizing your post or anything. And I know about how light/heavy attacks generate ultimate.
But there was so many forum posts (mostly by people who hate players using the oak ring) saying how this was the answer for casuals who hate weaving, when the reality is at least some weaving is still fairly important.
It was just funny to me to see it so honestly and bluntly (and well written, thank you) spelled out.

TheForFeeF

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Most of the mythics that I would consider to be balanced are equal to a 5-piece bonus on a set. I think the following are few good examples of balanced mythics:

Death Dealer's Fete
Markyn ring
Mora's Whispers
Gaze of Sithis (prevents you from wearing a monster set)
Wild Hunt Ring
Torc of tonal constancy


The few which I listed which might offer overloaded stats come with a big drawback. In it's current state, I think even Oakensoul is now balanced. So I know the ZOS devs can balance items. Now there's another in need of balancing, from a PvP standpoint:

Velothi Ur-Mage's Amulet
Adds 4968 Offensive Penetration, Increase your damage done to monsters by 15%, Critical Damage by 15%, and reduce your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 99%.

This is way more than any unconditional set bonus currently in the game. It's way too much to not have a requirement to meet.

4968 Offensive Penetration and 15% critical damage at what cost? You can't do much damage with light attacks? Big deal; I rarely see a light attack on my death recap. This is a gankers dream. And it is just plain cracked on any build. So let's just avoid tormenting the players with more busted items for months and let's balance this thing NOW PLEASE.

This Mythic is fine for PvE, it has a lovely niche as an AoE Mythic. Balancing it further for just PvP would kill all use this Mythic has.

On top of this, I thought Crit Dmg was useless in PvP and you just mainly wanted Pen?

TechMaybeHic

Seems PvE, usually the penetration is covered? So maybe that would be the point of contention that can be addressed?

TheForFeeF

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

Seems PvE, usually the penetration is covered? So maybe that would be the point of contention that can be addressed?

For PvE, in trash fights, it means you don't have to run Alkosh anymore.

CameraBeardThePirate

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

For PvP purposes Malacath is a good comparison.

Malacath: +16% damage done. -50% crit damage.

• At a 30% crit rate (typical in pvp) that 50% crit damage would account for about 12% of the total damage output (after crit mitigation, etc.).
• So it's +16% damage minus 12% damage = 4% damage gained

Velothi:

• 5k pen = 7.5% damage assuming no pen cap
• 15% crit dmg = ~5% DPS assuming a 30% crit rate
• 7.5 + 5 = 12.5% DPS minus 10-12% DPS from losing light-attack damage = 0 - 2.5% damage gained.

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me. I may be singing a different tune after getting sniped a few times XD

Crunching numbers like this doesn't really work in PvP like this though. At the end of the day, overall DPS overtime doesn't matter nearly as much as potential dps. The potential output of this amulet on a ganker is what's scary.

I see some people talking about reaching crit cap already - but that's missing the fact that going over crit cap in PvP is beneficial since you'll then be negating the enemy's crit resists.

The set will be rampant in Cyrodiil and IC on gankers, just as OG Oakensoul was. Do we need more damage in the meta? Yes, but I'd rather the damage not be in the form of 1 tap gank specs.

jaws343

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

For PvP purposes Malacath is a good comparison.

Malacath: +16% damage done. -50% crit damage.

• At a 30% crit rate (typical in pvp) that 50% crit damage would account for about 12% of the total damage output (after crit mitigation, etc.).
• So it's +16% damage minus 12% damage = 4% damage gained

Velothi:

• 5k pen = 7.5% damage assuming no pen cap
• 15% crit dmg = ~5% DPS assuming a 30% crit rate
• 7.5 + 5 = 12.5% DPS minus 10-12% DPS from losing light-attack damage = 0 - 2.5% damage gained.

However there are many builds that do not rely on light attacks all that much. Snipers and BEAM spammers come to mind. They will just enjoy a 12.5% damage increase with the possibility of crit spikes, vs the 16% with no crit spikes they'd get from malacath.

I haven't seen this thing in practice yet but just crunching some numbers it doesn't seem too terribly broken to me. I may be singing a different tune after getting sniped a few times XD

Crunching numbers like this doesn't really work in PvP like this though. At the end of the day, overall DPS overtime doesn't matter nearly as much as potential dps. The potential output of this amulet on a ganker is what's scary.

I see some people talking about reaching crit cap already - but that's missing the fact that going over crit cap in PvP is beneficial since you'll then be negating the enemy's crit resists. The set also doesn't debuff heavy attack damage - meaning you can just add in a heavy attack weave at the beginning of the gank.

The set will be rampant in Cyrodiil and IC on gankers, just as OG Oakensoul was. Do we need more damage in the meta? Yes, but I'd rather the damage not be in the form of 1 tap gank specs.

It does reduce heavy attack damage by 99%...

"(1 item) Adds 4968 Offensive Penetration, Increase your damage done to monsters by 15%, Critical Damage by 15%, and reduce your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 99%."

Honestly, this mythic is fine. The pen is nice and the crit damage is nice, and both make the item still useful in PVP. The damage done makes it really decent in PVE, alongside the other things. And the light and heavy attack reduction is impactful in both environments. Light attack weaving especially makes up a decent portion of a players' burst combo.