The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
My thoughts on Sharp's narrative issues.
First of all, mods...I recognize that there is another thread about this quest, but that is starting to devolve into several separate conversations including a discussion of how Telvanni are portrayed. I want to share my thoughts SOLELY on how I feel this quest is poorly narratively structured relative to trauma and nothing else. If you feel it should still be moved, that's fine, but I wanted to make this point separately from all the discussions of sexuality, gender, slavery, politics, lore etc.
Dear ESO writers,
I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on this questline focusing mainly on one aspect of it, the first-person memories. I'll admit I haven't played through this on pts, I have just read through and seen screenshots (here and on reddit) and have some thoughts on this aspect of the storytelling. I'm not going to comment on whether the quest plays into stereotypes or anything like that as I feel that's largely subjective, and as I haven't played it personally I do not have enough to comment on. I do however, have an opinion on the mechanics of a first person traumatic memory that I wish to share.
I do not feel telling or sharing trauma like this is effective at all in first person. I think perhaps, on some intellectual level it might be seen as getting "closer" to the subject matter, but I ironically feel that the opposite almost always occurs. Barring sociopathy, human beings are very sympathetic and empathethic creatures; it is after all how we form so many attachments to so many being from each other to other animals to plants. Unless, we have firsthand experience of the specific trauma, I feel a third-person tale is actually more effective at conveying a message or story or getting us to empathize. While we can sometimes do the old "see them through our own eyes" method, I think most genuine love is just that, love, and often times when we try to firsthand view the trauma we make ourselves the subject instead of those who actually suffered, and can actually filter away genuine compassion and empathy because we have lost our focus on who is actually in pain. I'd like to point to 2 rather famous movies, both good in their own rights, but with their own take on certain traumatic experiences.
One is "12 Years A Slave", and the other is "The Shawshank Redemption". [snip] My personal opinion is that the latter movie and sequence is a much better sequence conveying suffering and pain, while the first actually misses the mark. I think this is because trauma is well, traumatic, and everyone has a certain limit before it becomes too much. I guess I'd call this the "nightmare effect" by which I mean we lost the storytelling means to empathize and instead move into personalizing the event into something for ourselves, aka the "nightmare". Seeing screenshots of the memory dialogue where we play as Sharp, and looking back at the aforementioned whipping scene. I think there's a point in both, because the audience is sooo close to the subject matter, where we turn away from empathy and instead hold on to anger or disgust or walk away. This is because in this close perspective we take on more than we should. We take on the pain. It becomes less a scene about suffering, strength, and compassion and more of a personal nightmare we want to respond to. I think another famous example in recent years is Game of Throne's famous Theon torture scenes. I have talked to many and while we may disagree on what we liked about show, almost nobody (honestly, I wrote "almost nobody" out of a sense of general allowance; the truth is not a single person I know enjoyed those scenes) in my peer group thought the Theon torture scenes were good. Not that torture should be enjoyable, but I think many would feel the "Red Wedding" was somehow enjoyable in a cinematic sense, eventhough it was perhaps more traumatic and violent overall, it happened, we moved through it, and we moved on. People stopped caring about Theon, they just wanted his scenes to end.
This upfront display of visceral trauma may be the intent of a few mediums or documentary-type stories where the narrative wants a reaction or action to occur, or a change to develope, but I think the medium of ESO is not this setting. It is more akin to a choose-your-own adventure novel or show. I think my point is somewhat proven when I see other people's responses to this questline. They talk about how this is a companion quest and how it will be hard to avoid as it is not in some corner of the map or something. I think this demonstrates that you may have missed the mark with the first-person sequence style. People are already moving past the empathy they have for Sharp's story and instead have internalized it and want to avoid it as it has become their own nightmare now. I think this kind of "shock factor" storytelling is really only good at the "shock" part, that is it paralyzes us and pushes us away from reality, but not very good for the "telling" of the personal story of suffering and redemption. I do not think you have to rewrite Sharp or any of the other characters really, as I'm not going to criticize you for not being perfect writers, but I do think you should think of abandoning this "first-person trauma" method, as I do not feel it adds to the game or narrative and in fact, actually detracts from it.
Thank you for your time,
Sincerely,
An ESO enjoyer.
[edited for Inappropriate Content]
Edited by ZOS_Kraken on April 25, 2023 9:40PM Dear ESO writers,
I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on this questline focusing mainly on one aspect of it, the first-person memories. I'll admit I haven't played through this on pts, I have just read through and seen screenshots (here and on reddit) and have some thoughts on this aspect of the storytelling. I'm not going to comment on whether the quest plays into stereotypes or anything like that as I feel that's largely subjective, and as I haven't played it personally I do not have enough to comment on. I do however, have an opinion on the mechanics of a first person traumatic memory that I wish to share.
I do not feel telling or sharing trauma like this is effective at all in first person. I think perhaps, on some intellectual level it might be seen as getting "closer" to the subject matter, but I ironically feel that the opposite almost always occurs. Barring sociopathy, human beings are very sympathetic and empathethic creatures; it is after all how we form so many attachments to so many being from each other to other animals to plants. Unless, we have firsthand experience of the specific trauma, I feel a third-person tale is actually more effective at conveying a message or story or getting us to empathize. While we can sometimes do the old "see them through our own eyes" method, I think most genuine love is just that, love, and often times when we try to firsthand view the trauma we make ourselves the subject instead of those who actually suffered, and can actually filter away genuine compassion and empathy because we have lost our focus on who is actually in pain. I'd like to point to 2 rather famous movies, both good in their own rights, but with their own take on certain traumatic experiences.
One is "12 Years A Slave", and the other is "The Shawshank Redemption". [snip] My personal opinion is that the latter movie and sequence is a much better sequence conveying suffering and pain, while the first actually misses the mark. I think this is because trauma is well, traumatic, and everyone has a certain limit before it becomes too much. I guess I'd call this the "nightmare effect" by which I mean we lost the storytelling means to empathize and instead move into personalizing the event into something for ourselves, aka the "nightmare". Seeing screenshots of the memory dialogue where we play as Sharp, and looking back at the aforementioned whipping scene. I think there's a point in both, because the audience is sooo close to the subject matter, where we turn away from empathy and instead hold on to anger or disgust or walk away. This is because in this close perspective we take on more than we should. We take on the pain. It becomes less a scene about suffering, strength, and compassion and more of a personal nightmare we want to respond to. I think another famous example in recent years is Game of Throne's famous Theon torture scenes. I have talked to many and while we may disagree on what we liked about show, almost nobody (honestly, I wrote "almost nobody" out of a sense of general allowance; the truth is not a single person I know enjoyed those scenes) in my peer group thought the Theon torture scenes were good. Not that torture should be enjoyable, but I think many would feel the "Red Wedding" was somehow enjoyable in a cinematic sense, eventhough it was perhaps more traumatic and violent overall, it happened, we moved through it, and we moved on. People stopped caring about Theon, they just wanted his scenes to end.
This upfront display of visceral trauma may be the intent of a few mediums or documentary-type stories where the narrative wants a reaction or action to occur, or a change to develope, but I think the medium of ESO is not this setting. It is more akin to a choose-your-own adventure novel or show. I think my point is somewhat proven when I see other people's responses to this questline. They talk about how this is a companion quest and how it will be hard to avoid as it is not in some corner of the map or something. I think this demonstrates that you may have missed the mark with the first-person sequence style. People are already moving past the empathy they have for Sharp's story and instead have internalized it and want to avoid it as it has become their own nightmare now. I think this kind of "shock factor" storytelling is really only good at the "shock" part, that is it paralyzes us and pushes us away from reality, but not very good for the "telling" of the personal story of suffering and redemption. I do not think you have to rewrite Sharp or any of the other characters really, as I'm not going to criticize you for not being perfect writers, but I do think you should think of abandoning this "first-person trauma" method, as I do not feel it adds to the game or narrative and in fact, actually detracts from it.
Thank you for your time,
Sincerely,
An ESO enjoyer.
[edited for Inappropriate Content]
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