StaticWave wrote: »Just for a little insight, let's compare a hybrid Sorc vs a hybrid NB using the same build with U38 changes. This is the build:
Fairly standard crit damage build with some defensive capability of Rallying Cry and Major Breach from Night Mother set, which frees up a slot for a defensive/offensive ability.
Let's look at the skills I could use, the self-buffed front bar stats of the build in No-CP, and the tooltip of the main spammable for each class. Starting with Sorc:
And then NB:
So using the same build, with all passives accounted for (including Amplitude for Sorc and Strike From the Shadows for NB), the NB has 700 more HP, 509 more weapon/spell damage, 4% more crit chance, and 1974 more pen (if we count the pen from Crystal Weapon). The tooltip for NB's spammable is also 1277 more than Sorc's spammable.
Not only that, the NB also has Major Evasion, Minor Cowardice, off-balance, free well-fitted, Minor Maim, a unique 20% damage taken debuff, most of which the Sorc either doesn't have due to bar space or not having decent abilities to provide those buffs/debuffs. Most importantly, the NB has a decent and reliable burst heal. I mean just look at this:
vs this:
One could argue that Blessing of Restoration is an AoE heal and needs to have a lower tooltip, but the Sorc needs to slot a resto staff for that ability, whereas a NB can not only slot it as well for the AoE heal, but it can also slot a non-resto staff weapon and still have access to a decent and reliable burst heal.
Ironically, NB also has one of the best survivability in the game with Cloak + Shadow Image along with a decent and reliable burst heal. A full damage NB is just as slippery as a full damage Sorc, while also being tankier.
It's time Sorc needs to be buffed to NB standards, or NB and other dominating classes need to be nerfed to Sorc standards.
Right now you guys have incredible heal by using Surge, alot of dots and ~30% crit rate. You need just streak to target-put elem weak with vateshran and hit target with twin slashes, thats all. And you will be healed 3k every second by surge. With current nerf mara's set you will be such strong as dk.
Oh my bad. We play at different mmr probably so at low rate you will not find any stamDOTsorc.acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
Oh my bad. We play at different mmr probably so at low rate you will not find any stamDOTsorc.acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
Other classes dont get ~3k heal when dot get crit so sorc really good with crit dots. You need just put on front bar camohunter and you will get majoir + minor prophesy(10%base+12%major from camo+6% minor from sorc buff)acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
Other classes dont get ~3k heal when dot get crit so sorc really good with crit dots. You need just put on front bar camohunter and you will get majoir + minor prophesy(10%base+12%major from camo+6% minor from sorc buff)acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
ANd i agreed that sorc played as melee with dual looks stupid, where is there staffs and powerfull spells? I want to play necro with staff becouse necro is a caster too but its too weak and pathetic. So pvp not right place for RP,. there is only need effective kill enemies.
I saw a lot of time when 2-4players is trying to kill one stamDotsorc but all of them just melted by him. I dont use mara so i died with them too
acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
Elemental Susceptibility put 2 hits and 1 dot 4sec every 7 sec.
Rending Slashes put 2 dots 20 sec and 4 sec.
Poisons put 2 dots.
Oh my bad. We play at different mmr probably so at low rate you will not find any stamDOTsorc.acastanza_ESO wrote: »...
StaticWave wrote: »
StaticWave wrote: »
And again I repeat. Other classes can use the same tools to deal dot damage, but they WILL NOT RECEIVE HEALING BY PROCING CRITICAL DOTS.
So my suggestion is to change Surge that the crite dots did not trigger heal, but at the same time increase heal from surge by 20-30%.
I know only few really good and skilled stamsorcs who play without vateshrans staff and twinslashes. Any other stamsorcs cant do nothing without dots.
VodkaBearNuclearWeapon BEST stamsorc in the game. You can watch his pvp video cyro/bg. Ofc he play WITHOUT procs, only skill matter. Fighting him few times, still 0 wins...StaticWave wrote: »Stamsorc doesn’t exist without those procs lol. Every single decent stamsorc is using either Master DW or some proc. The entire class relies on procs and it’s evident throughout ESO’s history.
VodkaBearNuclearWeapon BEST stamsorc in the game. You can watch his pvp video cyro/bg. Ofc he play WITHOUT procs, only skill matter. Fighting him few times, still 0 wins...StaticWave wrote: »Stamsorc doesn’t exist without those procs lol. Every single decent stamsorc is using either Master DW or some proc. The entire class relies on procs and it’s evident throughout ESO’s history.
StaticWave wrote: »
And again I repeat. Other classes can use the same tools to deal dot damage, but they WILL NOT RECEIVE HEALING BY PROCING CRITICAL DOTS.
So my suggestion is to change Surge that the crite dots did not trigger heal, but at the same time increase heal from surge by 20-30%.
I know only few really good and skilled stamsorcs who play without vateshrans staff and twinslashes. Any other stamsorcs cant do nothing without dots.
StaticWave wrote: »
VodkaBearNuclearWeapon BEST stamsorc in the game. You can watch his pvp video cyro/bg. Ofc he play WITHOUT procs, only skill matter. Fighting him few times, still 0 wins...StaticWave wrote: »Stamsorc doesn’t exist without those procs lol. Every single decent stamsorc is using either Master DW or some proc. The entire class relies on procs and it’s evident throughout ESO’s history.
StaticWave wrote: »VodkaBearNuclearWeapon BEST stamsorc in the game. You can watch his pvp video cyro/bg. Ofc he play WITHOUT procs, only skill matter. Fighting him few times, still 0 wins...StaticWave wrote: »Stamsorc doesn’t exist without those procs lol. Every single decent stamsorc is using either Master DW or some proc. The entire class relies on procs and it’s evident throughout ESO’s history.
No he isn’t lol. Each platform has top tier stamsorcs and unless they all duel each other you can’t really claim he’s the best.
Procs matter mate. Idk what era of the game you’re talking about but today’s age a full proc stamsorc WILL DESTROY a no proc stamsorc if both players are of equal skill.
StaticWave wrote: »
I put Vodka on first place because only he play no proc and crush enemies face, even Decimus play with dots, but he is really strong player too.
Thats why i play "no cp cyro" where i cant finde guys like you, who do nothing without procs.
And i say it again, EVERY class can play with dot procs, but only SORC can be healed by crit dots and thats give them greater advantage.
Im little tired to to talk some guy and leave this thread.
StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
I put Vodka on first place because only he play no proc and crush enemies face, even Decimus play with dots, but he is really strong player too.
Thats why i play "no cp cyro" where i cant finde guys like you, who do nothing without procs.
And i say it again, EVERY class can play with dot procs, but only SORC can be healed by crit dots and thats give them greater advantage.
Im little tired to to talk some guy and leave this thread.
Lol no disrespect but Vodka will lose to a proc sorc with the same skill level as his, and he knows it. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.
If you pitch Vodka with a no proc build against himself with a proc build, he’s going to lose to the proc version every single time.
Bushido2513 wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »StaticWave wrote: »
I put Vodka on first place because only he play no proc and crush enemies face, even Decimus play with dots, but he is really strong player too.
Thats why i play "no cp cyro" where i cant finde guys like you, who do nothing without procs.
And i say it again, EVERY class can play with dot procs, but only SORC can be healed by crit dots and thats give them greater advantage.
Im little tired to to talk some guy and leave this thread.
Lol no disrespect but Vodka will lose to a proc sorc with the same skill level as his, and he knows it. I’m not sure why you think otherwise.
If you pitch Vodka with a no proc build against himself with a proc build, he’s going to lose to the proc version every single time.
I'm not saying you're wrong but man there's a whole lot of supposition in this argument.
To take this from another angle. Static what non proc builds have you tried on stamsorc that utterly failed?
StaticWave wrote: »@Bushido2513So here is a comparison between a non-proc and proc build on stamsorc. I'll post screenshots of the build, the self-buffed stats, the skill setup, and the tooltip of the abilities and proc sets. Note that this comparison does not include CPs, Amplitude passive, Continuous Attack, etc. The only buffs I've included are self-buffs provided by abilities and sets.
Let's start with the non-proc build:
Next, we have the proc build:
So how does the non-proc build compare to the proc one? Well, if Balorgh isn't counted, the non-proc build has 2605 more HP, 804 more WD, 2744 more pen. This results in an overall higher ability tooltip with Crystal Weapon sitting at 11616, Curse at 15998, and Dawnbreaker at 21600. If we use Balorgh at 500 ultimate points, then the final WD, pen, and according ability tooltips will be higher.
But realistically most people aren't going to sit at 500 ultimate, so let's use 200 as our arbitrary value for Balorgh. Our new WD and pen values for the entire duration of Balorgh will be 8290 WD and 13221 pen, respectively. Compared to the proc build's 7202 WD and 5877 pen values, we can see that these stats look a lot better.
That's great! So what about the proc build? Well, it has less WD and pen, but 5.4% more crit chance and 1541 more mag. The ability tooltips are 10691 for Crystal Weapon, 14725 for Curse, and 19878 for Dawnbreaker. You'd probably think the build is weaker, but hold that thought. I've included the tooltip of Zaan and Vate Staff for a reason. Zaan's tooltip is 1260 per tick and increasing by 100% every tick. That means the tooltip will be 1260, 2520, 3780, 5040,... and 12600 for the last tick. For Vate Staff, the average tooltip is 2460 per tick, with the final tick dealing 20% more damage. Both proc sets tick every second. Master Dual Wield is a special case because while it isn't necessarily a proc as it only turns Twin Slash into a regular spammable, it is still considered a proc due to the fact that the DoT of Twin Slash is also affected, making it tick for ~1800-2300 damage every 2 seconds.
At this point you're probably wondering why I included all of these stats and tooltips. What i'm trying to say is this:
While a non-proc build can give higher base stats, it doesn't do free damage.
The non-proc build above only has 925 higher Crystal Weapon tooltip damage than the proc build, but it doesn't have 3 proc sets that literally apply ~3000-7000 FREE extra equivalent tooltip damage every second. What's going to happen in a real fight between players using those 2 builds is the proc build will apply Vate Staff proc, Zaan proc, block cast Rending Slash, then literally hold block to sit and watch the non-proc player rot to death from just DoT pressure, both from abilities and procs.
The best chance that non-proc player can have is 100-0 with a fat burst combo, assuming the opponent is too incompetent to try blocking the combo. Against someone who's competent, there's next to no shot.
there are 2 lots of problems with sorc.
1 is that non pet sorc under performs
2 is that pet sorc has no bar space
non pet sorc has bar space for slotting something like camo hunter
pet sorc doesn't
this is why, in my opinion, major proph and sav should be added to twilight tormentor. this fills one of the big gaps with pet sorc.
non pet sorc needs buffing, or pets need nerfing and then all of sorc gets buffed in some way. this is a separate issue.
3+ is the lacking of healing options, lack of cleave, lack of unique debuffs, the terrible state of lightning staffs outside HA builds, how useless concussive is as a status, how annoying frags cast time is, how weak the execute in in PvE while also being too strong in PvP, the lack of class dots and so on.
they have laid out that they are not doing big changes this update, so we'll just leave the list of grievances here for next update i guess.
as for this update:
the atro change is great. it's a strong group buff for trials.
dark exchange buffs are a good, low impact buffs. usually if i need to run dark deal i have to drop trap for it, so at least not losing minor force is nice.
just get rid of the scamp stun entirely. the current change is a half measure that doesn't really help the problem the stun causes. the extra concussive proc chance is a joke. as in it's laughable. do something better with it or just don't bother.
YandereGirlfriend wrote: »there are 2 lots of problems with sorc.
1 is that non pet sorc under performs
2 is that pet sorc has no bar space
non pet sorc has bar space for slotting something like camo hunter
pet sorc doesn't
this is why, in my opinion, major proph and sav should be added to twilight tormentor. this fills one of the big gaps with pet sorc.
non pet sorc needs buffing, or pets need nerfing and then all of sorc gets buffed in some way. this is a separate issue.
3+ is the lacking of healing options, lack of cleave, lack of unique debuffs, the terrible state of lightning staffs outside HA builds, how useless concussive is as a status, how annoying frags cast time is, how weak the execute in in PvE while also being too strong in PvP, the lack of class dots and so on.
they have laid out that they are not doing big changes this update, so we'll just leave the list of grievances here for next update i guess.
as for this update:
the atro change is great. it's a strong group buff for trials.
dark exchange buffs are a good, low impact buffs. usually if i need to run dark deal i have to drop trap for it, so at least not losing minor force is nice.
just get rid of the scamp stun entirely. the current change is a half measure that doesn't really help the problem the stun causes. the extra concussive proc chance is a joke. as in it's laughable. do something better with it or just don't bother.
Forcing classes to use non-class abilities simply for passive buffs (e.g. Camo Hunter) feels quite bad and should not be necessary in a better balanced game.
The very existence of Camo Hunter in the meta is sort of a shameful commentary on the game's current balance. In a system with only 5 active abilities slots per bar we should all be slotting skills for what they do while active not for what they do by hanging out, unused, on our bar.