About Character Knowledge and Master Writ Drop Chances

Aorys

Some of my questions were answered on this statement: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3656134/#Comment_3656134

But I, and probably other players, still would like to know a few important things so, I will have to bother you a bit @ZOS_Bel_Shezzar please

1) If the drop chances are related to achievement obtained by learning a style. If so, as the motif achievements are account-wide, is it really needed to learn all motif styles on every character to boost master writ drop?
2) The new alchemy ingredients traits and new motifs will count to boost the drops?

tmbrinks

While I would also prefer ZoS to directly comment on mechanics... it seems like posts like the one you linked are a thing of the past

1) Yes, you still need to. It's not actually based by tracking the motif achievement, but rather the complete motifs from your Lore Library - Crafting Motifs, which is character based. (I track per patch... and I get a significantly lower drop rate of master writs on my alt account, which has nearly zero motif knowledge... and my main account, which has far more)

2) With there being no journal tracking for alchemy traits, I operate under the assumption that there is no drop rate addition associated with the DLC materials. I do not see a statistically significant difference in drop rate for Alchemy Master Writs between characters that have learned Dragon Bile/Blood/Rheum and those that have not (although that is much more difficult to discern as it's per character, rather than per account).

Zyva

I really wish we could get answers about this.

TaSheen

I'm assuming a couple of things since the linked thread is from early 2017: 1) Things with the character knowledge and writs might be somewhat different now than when ZOS_Bel_Shazzar posted that post; 2) ZOS_Bel_Shazzar may no longer be in whatever department s/he was 6+ years ago, or no longer working for ZOS at all.

For instance, s/he states that "This does not include Crown-exclusive motifs or motifs for the 9 base player races." I don't know about the Crown-exclusive motifs now, but as we've seen since AWA, the 9 base player race motifs are now considered added to Grand Master Crafter from all characters on an account - which means all of those are munged into how many motifs are known. That might of course not be construed to mean they're actually "counted" toward known motif count, but I'm not sure they'd have a method of excluding that - it's possible to filter for things like that in a database, but someone has to realize it needs to be done, and then write the query filter for it.

Aorys

tmbrinks wrote: »

While I would also prefer ZoS to directly comment on mechanics... it seems like posts like the one you linked are a thing of the past

1) Yes, you still need to. It's not actually based by tracking the motif achievement, but rather the complete motifs from your Lore Library - Crafting Motifs, which is character based. (I track per patch... and I get a significantly lower drop rate of master writs on my alt account, which has nearly zero motif knowledge... and my main account, which has far more)

2) With there being no journal tracking for alchemy traits, I operate under the assumption that there is no drop rate addition associated with the DLC materials. I do not see a statistically significant difference in drop rate for Alchemy Master Writs between characters that have learned Dragon Bile/Blood/Rheum and those that have not (although that is much more difficult to discern as it's per character, rather than per account).

For the moment I like to learn new alchemy traits on every character I create. Not that really would matter the material expenses but the motif thing scare me a bit because it is a ton of work, running traders after motifs, often overpriced. Two days ago I was after a Dremora Legs, that costs 45k and someone monitoring ttc flipping it for 900k, I was like what??

endgamesmug

Deleted

tmbrinks

Aorys wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

While I would also prefer ZoS to directly comment on mechanics... it seems like posts like the one you linked are a thing of the past

1) Yes, you still need to. It's not actually based by tracking the motif achievement, but rather the complete motifs from your Lore Library - Crafting Motifs, which is character based. (I track per patch... and I get a significantly lower drop rate of master writs on my alt account, which has nearly zero motif knowledge... and my main account, which has far more)

2) With there being no journal tracking for alchemy traits, I operate under the assumption that there is no drop rate addition associated with the DLC materials. I do not see a statistically significant difference in drop rate for Alchemy Master Writs between characters that have learned Dragon Bile/Blood/Rheum and those that have not (although that is much more difficult to discern as it's per character, rather than per account).

For the moment I like to learn new alchemy traits on every character I create. Not that really would matter the material expenses but the motif thing scare me a bit because it is a ton of work, running traders after motifs, often overpriced. Two days ago I was after a Dremora Legs, that costs 45k and someone monitoring ttc flipping it for 900k, I was like what??

My data suggests that it's diminishing returns for learning more motifs, that is learning 10 motifs on 10 characters will net far more additional master writs than learning 100 motifs on 1 character.

My advice would be to learn 8-15 of the cheapest, easiest to find motifs on your characters to increase drop rates... then focus on the rare, expensive ones only for your main crafter.

tmbrinks

endgamesmug wrote: »

All that sticks out for me is i get blue alchemy writs dropping from 3 crafting alts doing top level alchemy, and i get gold alchemy writs drop from my main crafter.

??

Alchemy master writs only drop in purple. There exist no others.

Aorys

tmbrinks wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

All that sticks out for me is i get blue alchemy writs dropping from 3 crafting alts doing top level alchemy, and i get gold alchemy writs drop from my main crafter.

??

Alchemy master writs only drop in purple. There exist no others.

I would like to know too because Ive seen gold ones in a yt video. I thought it was something removed from the game because I got all my characters maxed and never got one

tmbrinks

Aorys wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

All that sticks out for me is i get blue alchemy writs dropping from 3 crafting alts doing top level alchemy, and i get gold alchemy writs drop from my main crafter.

??

Alchemy master writs only drop in purple. There exist no others.

I would like to know too because Ive seen gold ones in a yt video. I thought it was something removed from the game because I got all my characters maxed and never got one

I've gotten nearly 5,500 alchemy master writs since I've been tracking... every one of them has been purple.

Aorys

tmbrinks wrote: »

Aorys wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

All that sticks out for me is i get blue alchemy writs dropping from 3 crafting alts doing top level alchemy, and i get gold alchemy writs drop from my main crafter.

??

Alchemy master writs only drop in purple. There exist no others.

I would like to know too because Ive seen gold ones in a yt video. I thought it was something removed from the game because I got all my characters maxed and never got one

I've gotten nearly 5,500 alchemy master writs since I've been tracking... every one of them has been purple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rBXCaALjIg
Can see them here, but 4 years ago. Ive been playing for a year only so, dunno

tmbrinks

Aorys wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Aorys wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

All that sticks out for me is i get blue alchemy writs dropping from 3 crafting alts doing top level alchemy, and i get gold alchemy writs drop from my main crafter.

??

Alchemy master writs only drop in purple. There exist no others.

I would like to know too because Ive seen gold ones in a yt video. I thought it was something removed from the game because I got all my characters maxed and never got one

I've gotten nearly 5,500 alchemy master writs since I've been tracking... every one of them has been purple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rBXCaALjIg
Can see them here, but 4 years ago. Ive been playing for a year only so, dunno

It's possible they were different 'qualities' right when they launched. I do remember them doing a standardization of them sometime soon after they were introduced. But they've certainly been only purple for years.

Aorys

tmbrinks wrote: »

It's possible they were different 'qualities' right when they launched. I do remember them doing a standardization of them sometime soon after they were introduced. But they've certainly been only purple for years.

I see. The vouchers are 5 and 2, looks like those gold are the purple

Hapexamendios

That video is the only place I've seen golden alchemy writs. Never seen them in game.

FeedbackOnly

All this information was from the original patch notes. Any achievements points counts towards drop rate. So yes new motifs count

virtus753

endgamesmug wrote: »

If its possible to delete my nonsensical first post id be cool with that im kinda embarrassed about it 😆

You can always go back and edit it, if you like - there's a cogwheel next to the number of the post and the timestamp on the right side.

LadyLethalla

My 2c:
I have one crafter, who knows all traits and a lot of motif pages (have GMC thanks to AWA but without AWA I doubt she would have the title).
I have two other characters that have quite a lot of traits known and who have Blacksmithing, Clothier and Woodworking at level 50 with level 10 mats - but barely any motifs; they know the Daedric, Barbaric and other 2 base game purple books, and all or almost all New Moon Priest. These two characters occasionally get master writs, and I know at least one of the two has had a gold MW for Clothing, Blacksmithing and or Woodworking. Probably more than one.
I also have 5 other characters that have the equipment skills at level 50 but only use lvl 1 mats, who btw them know some or a lot of traits - I don't believe any of these have ever gotten a MW in those skills. (These only know the blue racial motifs and some New Moon Priest).

So... I suggest that points into mats level is a factor over motifs.

What I would like to know, though... is why my CP160 tank hardly ever gets surveys, while my two non CP characters often do. The tank knows all alchemy and enchanting traits and has every skill at level 50, whereas the two non CPs have only Blacksmithing, Clothing and Woodworking at level 50.

hrothbern

@tmbrinks

First of all a big thanks for all the structured info you share with us all !

Question:
In your excel sheet of the link in your subscript you say on master writs for WW, BS, Cloth:
Learn all 9-traits (~4-5% increase from all 9), learn as many COMPLETE purple motifs (knowing individual pages doesn't help, only completed ones) - seems to be heavily weighted to the first motifs learned (learn 10 full motifs on 10 characters will net more master writs than learning 100 motifs on 1 character)

Is a total of 9 different traits spread over the different kind of items of a Skill line enough, or do you need all 9 on each item of a skill line ?

tmbrinks

hrothbern wrote: »

@tmbrinks

First of all a big thanks for all the structured info you share with us all !

Question:
In your excel sheet of the link in your subscript you say on master writs for WW, BS, Cloth:
Learn all 9-traits (~4-5% increase from all 9), learn as many COMPLETE purple motifs (knowing individual pages doesn't help, only completed ones) - seems to be heavily weighted to the first motifs learned (learn 10 full motifs on 10 characters will net more master writs than learning 100 motifs on 1 character)

Is a total of 9 different traits spread over the different kind of items of a Skill line enough, or do you need all 9 on each item of a skill line ?

Since the official ZoS statement mentions "achievements" I would venture you only need the associated achivement for researching each trait once. However, I have not tested this (as my characters were all full 8- and 9-trait crafters long before master writs were introduced, and I'd rather just be able to transmute or reconstruct anything in any trait on any character, so all new ones learn all traits as well.

tmbrinks

LadyLethalla wrote: »

My 2c:
I have one crafter, who knows all traits and a lot of motif pages (have GMC thanks to AWA but without AWA I doubt she would have the title).
I have two other characters that have quite a lot of traits known and who have Blacksmithing, Clothier and Woodworking at level 50 with level 10 mats - but barely any motifs; they know the Daedric, Barbaric and other 2 base game purple books, and all or almost all New Moon Priest. These two characters occasionally get master writs, and I know at least one of the two has had a gold MW for Clothing, Blacksmithing and or Woodworking. Probably more than one.
I also have 5 other characters that have the equipment skills at level 50 but only use lvl 1 mats, who btw them know some or a lot of traits - I don't believe any of these have ever gotten a MW in those skills. (These only know the blue racial motifs and some New Moon Priest).

So... I suggest that points into mats level is a factor over motifs.

What I would like to know, though... is why my CP160 tank hardly ever gets surveys, while my two non CP characters often do. The tank knows all alchemy and enchanting traits and has every skill at level 50, whereas the two non CPs have only Blacksmithing, Clothing and Woodworking at level 50.

Master Writs will only drop when doing max tier writs. They do not drop from other tiers.

When a master writ is awarded, the quality is random, and what it asks for is random. More trait knowledge or motifs does not increase your chances of a "gold" master writ, just the chance of getting "any" master writ.

Surveys are not affected by any modifiers. They drop at approximately 1 in 8.

Aorys

tmbrinks wrote: »

My data suggests that it's diminishing returns for learning more motifs, that is learning 10 motifs on 10 characters will net far more additional master writs than learning 100 motifs on 1 character.

My advice would be to learn 8-15 of the cheapest, easiest to find motifs on your characters to increase drop rates... then focus on the rare, expensive ones only for your main crafter.

Im going to follow that, thanks!

Lumsdenml

This is according to a well known ESO content creater who is ALl about CASTing... he must be a good fisherman....

How to increase the chance to get master writs?

Master Writs don't always appear but there are ways to increase the chance of their appearance. For example if you have researched most of the ingame traits you have a higher chance of Master Writ discovery. The same counts for things like Motifs. If you know more motif styles then the chance is higher that Master Writs drop. Same counts for things like known recipes, rune knowledge or alchemy flower traits discovery.

Alchemy Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Traits of Reagents known (Achievements unlocked), 15% higher chance

Enchanting Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Knowledge of all the Runes, 15% higher chance

Provisioning Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple and Gold food recipes known

Blacksmithing, Clothing, Woodworking and Jewelry Master Writ drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple Motifs known (Only completed Motifs count)
Amount of Traits researched (All Traits researched results in 15% higher chance)

virtus753

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is according to a well known ESO content creater who is ALl about CASTing... he must be a good fisherman....

How to increase the chance to get master writs?

Master Writs don't always appear but there are ways to increase the chance of their appearance. For example if you have researched most of the ingame traits you have a higher chance of Master Writ discovery. The same counts for things like Motifs. If you know more motif styles then the chance is higher that Master Writs drop. Same counts for things like known recipes, rune knowledge or alchemy flower traits discovery.

Alchemy Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Traits of Reagents known (Achievements unlocked), 15% higher chance

Enchanting Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Knowledge of all the Runes, 15% higher chance

Provisioning Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple and Gold food recipes known

Blacksmithing, Clothing, Woodworking and Jewelry Master Writ drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple Motifs known (Only completed Motifs count)
Amount of Traits researched (All Traits researched results in 15% higher chance)

Pretty sure the information on that site is just taken from tmbrinks’ own data and analysis.

I_killed_Vivec

I do respect all the analysis that people have done, and I feel intuitively that it must be correct that the more traits, recipes, reagents, motifs you know the better your chances will be.

And yet...

Somehow I feel that this is all outweighed by good old RNG.

My main crafter knows the lot apart from a couple of the most recent motif pages. All the reagents, all the runes, all the recipes. Level 50 across the board. And yet gets fewer master writs than some of my lower characters. This is particularly noticeable for provisioning and alchemy - the lower characters don't even make the items for writs, they just pull them out of the bank! And they aren't even max level. Why should handing in a sip of health or a baked potato compare with essences and level 50 provisions? Similarly for enchants - if your "reward" for the writ is a trifling rune, then how can you expect to be getting master writs.

And yet they do.

kringled_1

Uh...you don't get master writs from dailies that aren't top level, unless I misunderstood something. If you aren't turning in CP 150 food, or potions made with lorkhans tears, or glyphs made with rejera? You won't get master writs.
That said...there's a lot of random chance there as well.

Aorys

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

I do respect all the analysis that people have done, and I feel intuitively that it must be correct that the more traits, recipes, reagents, motifs you know the better your chances will be.

And yet...

Somehow I feel that this is all outweighed by good old RNG.

My main crafter knows the lot apart from a couple of the most recent motif pages. All the reagents, all the runes, all the recipes. Level 50 across the board. And yet gets fewer master writs than some of my lower characters. This is particularly noticeable for provisioning and alchemy - the lower characters don't even make the items for writs, they just pull them out of the bank! And they aren't even max level. Why should handing in a sip of health or a baked potato compare with essences and level 50 provisions? Similarly for enchants - if your "reward" for the writ is a trifling rune, then how can you expect to be getting master writs.

And yet they do.

The chances are going to be raised up only if you have the complete motif 14/14 pages learned, 13/14 will do nothing. And motifs will not count for alchemy/enchanting/provisioning, only effects learned, runes translated and purple/gold recipes learned. And why do higher level writs? Because having the crafting still on lv 1 you have 1% chance of dropping a legendary material from daily writs and with it maxed on lv 10 its 30% chance. Not only junk glyphs. You will drop more Kuta. If you are doing only lv 1 writs you are losing a ton of gold.

Lumsdenml

virtus753 wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is according to a well known ESO content creater who is ALl about CASTing... he must be a good fisherman....

How to increase the chance to get master writs?

Master Writs don't always appear but there are ways to increase the chance of their appearance. For example if you have researched most of the ingame traits you have a higher chance of Master Writ discovery. The same counts for things like Motifs. If you know more motif styles then the chance is higher that Master Writs drop. Same counts for things like known recipes, rune knowledge or alchemy flower traits discovery.

Alchemy Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Traits of Reagents known (Achievements unlocked), 15% higher chance

Enchanting Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Knowledge of all the Runes, 15% higher chance

Provisioning Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple and Gold food recipes known

Blacksmithing, Clothing, Woodworking and Jewelry Master Writ drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple Motifs known (Only completed Motifs count)
Amount of Traits researched (All Traits researched results in 15% higher chance)

Pretty sure the information on that site is just taken from tmbrinks’ own data and analysis.

Here is more info from devs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3811984/#Comment_3811984

virtus753

Lumsdenml wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Lumsdenml wrote: »

This is according to a well known ESO content creater who is ALl about CASTing... he must be a good fisherman....

How to increase the chance to get master writs?

Master Writs don't always appear but there are ways to increase the chance of their appearance. For example if you have researched most of the ingame traits you have a higher chance of Master Writ discovery. The same counts for things like Motifs. If you know more motif styles then the chance is higher that Master Writs drop. Same counts for things like known recipes, rune knowledge or alchemy flower traits discovery.

Alchemy Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Traits of Reagents known (Achievements unlocked), 15% higher chance

Enchanting Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Knowledge of all the Runes, 15% higher chance

Provisioning Master Writs drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple and Gold food recipes known

Blacksmithing, Clothing, Woodworking and Jewelry Master Writ drop chance depends on:
Amount of Purple Motifs known (Only completed Motifs count)
Amount of Traits researched (All Traits researched results in 15% higher chance)

Pretty sure the information on that site is just taken from tmbrinks’ own data and analysis.

Here is more info from devs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3811984/#Comment_3811984

That’s essentially just the same information a dev provided in OP’s first post. They are also both from the same year: 2017.

The problem is (also as pointed out above) that we have no official comment from a dev regarding anything post-Brotherhood (no info about Dragon Rheum, Blood, Bile, etc.) and nothing about how writs chances were impacted and/or deliberately changed after AWA. Compounding the problem is that in the past ZOS has also not always been correct about their information: see Bonemold style page cooldowns for a recent example - never corrected - and also Finn mixing up how the game calculates chances for monster helm style pages based on hard mode achievements - he did go back and correct himself after checking with the systems team.