Stealth classes are always broken. Prove me wrong

geonsocal

JavaRen wrote: »

Point 1: absolute statements are very rarely correct.

Point 2: assertions of opinion followed by "prove me wrong" are always incorrect.

yeah, something felt a little off with the wording...

rabidmyers

wrong

oooo get proved!

nublife01

kirk_lewis_ESO wrote: »

Discuss

Detect pots, 9-12 radius detection spammable mage light/evil hunter that also gives major savagery and other passives, new 7 meter range melee distance, daedric curse, blood scion, sleet storm, lightning form/hurricane, honestly any half decent dot pressure as heal casts bring us out of stealth, damage magicka poison, holding block button, theres definitely more should I continue? Shadowy disguise is the most counterable spell in the entire game. If you build your pvp kit correctly then even a titanborn eviscerate spamming 5% hp woodelf shouldnt be able to take you down. Sure I agree that unnatural movement is a little broken if abused correctly, but nightblade cloak is in absolute no shape or form broken. It used to be sure. But even in a damage meta (as opposed to the current tank meta) there are class abilities that are much harder to counter and a lot more powerful than cloak's current state.

Cast_El

I think different type of gameplay/class is good for the game. Some players can be anoying: get killed by a gander while your are dueling with another player for exemple.

Nightblade need to be balanced, they got buffed and buffed, same as DK while over classes where nerfed(except warden).
So they are definitely strong.
The minor resolve buff on vigor is also a problem: nightblade should be squishy,not unlikable.
High damage should mean low resistance.

cuddles_with_wroble

in most mmos, the stealth class is normally heavily debated. stealth classes often are very op against lower skilled and newer players and reek havoc among them, but alot of the times more veteran or higher end players dont have an issue with it.

in eso this has been the case for a really long time. however these days nightblade is very very powerful for both low end players AND for high end players and most people agree it needs a small damage or survivability nerf in pvp

lunaslide

Cast_El wrote: »

nightblade should be squishy,not unlikable.

I know this is a misspelling, but seems more like a Freudian slip.

TechMaybeHic

If you mean either UP or OP and never really balanced, I can agree.

Everyone assumes when you say that, you mean OP and do not like getting ganked or whatever. But the thing is, either you can go invisible and yet be just as capable or better than other non-stealth classes otherwise which would be OP; or you can be less capable as the other non-stealth classes and then just happen to be able to go invisible which would arguably be UP.

FWIW; I find non stealth classes to rarely be balanced. Games are constantly chasing balance but I have never seen one say "Hey, we are good. Don't change anything else." This game actually does provide counters for stealth at least, and some are not great; but I'd say the misbalance has not been because of the invisibility part.

nublife01

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

If you mean either UP or OP and never really balanced, I can agree.

Everyone assumes when you say that, you mean OP and do not like getting ganked or whatever. But the thing is, either you can go invisible and yet be just as capable or better than other non-stealth classes otherwise which would be OP; or you can be less capable as the other non-stealth classes and then just happen to be able to go invisible which would arguably be UP.

FWIW; I find non stealth classes to rarely be balanced. Games are constantly chasing balance but I have never seen one say "Hey, we are good. Don't change anything else." This game actually does provide counters for stealth at least, and some are not great; but I'd say the misbalance has not been because of the invisibility part.

actually as it stands right now nightblade has immense tradeoffs based on what back bar and front bar abilities we choose to slot. if you slot cloak that means you could be losing out on ice staff major breach or dark path speed/resource regen, or the healing/sustain provided by siphoning strikes, or the burst heal offered by healthy offering, or the utitility of shadow clone port, which are all abilities with vital roles. if you choose to replace shadowy disguise with other abilities then the class becomes more like a bruiser but once you slot shadowy disguise you are missing out on damage or tankyness.

ZOS did a very good job on balancing nightblades. I think they're the in the most balanced state they have ever been. I think the real issue right now is DK and the tank meta though that's another topic.

TechMaybeHic

nublife01 wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

If you mean either UP or OP and never really balanced, I can agree.

Everyone assumes when you say that, you mean OP and do not like getting ganked or whatever. But the thing is, either you can go invisible and yet be just as capable or better than other non-stealth classes otherwise which would be OP; or you can be less capable as the other non-stealth classes and then just happen to be able to go invisible which would arguably be UP.

FWIW; I find non stealth classes to rarely be balanced. Games are constantly chasing balance but I have never seen one say "Hey, we are good. Don't change anything else." This game actually does provide counters for stealth at least, and some are not great; but I'd say the misbalance has not been because of the invisibility part.

actually as it stands right now nightblade has immense tradeoffs based on what back bar and front bar abilities we choose to slot. if you slot cloak that means you could be losing out on ice staff major breach or dark path speed/resource regen, or the healing/sustain provided by siphoning strikes, or the burst heal offered by healthy offering, or the utitility of shadow clone port, which are all abilities with vital roles. if you choose to replace shadowy disguise with other abilities then the class becomes more like a bruiser but once you slot shadowy disguise you are missing out on damage or tankyness.

ZOS did a very good job on balancing nightblades. I think they're the in the most balanced state they have ever been. I think the real issue right now is DK and the tank meta though that's another topic.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Shall I shed a tear that NBs have so many good abilities, they can't use them all? I think you are talking the class itself with stealth or no stealth; but that's not balance.

If DKs weren't where they are; NBs, both cloak and non closk would be the focus of everyone's attention. Really, it's not far off. DK is just much easier. So that's kind of my point. The nearest rival to the top dog, and can go invisible...

Then again; that detect pot range does eliminate the invisible part. At least as far as sustaining it

nublife01

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Shall I shed a tear that NBs have so many good abilities, they can't use them all? I think you are talking the class itself with stealth or no stealth; but that's not balance.

If DKs weren't where they are; NBs, both cloak and non closk would be the focus of everyone's attention. Really, it's not far off. DK is just much easier. So that's kind of my point. The nearest rival to the top dog, and can go invisible...

Then again; that detect pot range does eliminate the invisible part. At least as far as sustaining it

The reason why nightblade used to be very powerful is because our abilties had multiple attributes/afixes to them. Take old stamblade for example: surprise attack would cause minor breach knock you off balance and stun you if used from behind. The stun was removed so if you want to stun a target you either need to waste a gcd to medium attack or slot fear and/or wait for surprise attack ult. And now currently our highest damaging spammable concealed weapon requires us to either spam cloak or slot dark path to keep up its maximum damage. That's another slot. Furthermore, cloak would both remove you from sight and prevent dot damage so that vigor was enough healing as opposed to also needing a burst heal. Now we must also slot healthy offering. That's how the class was nerfed. We have to heavily choose which abilities to slot because ability power has now been spread to from just abilities we commonly use to other abilities we never used in the past. Also buffing melee range to 7 meters will make it a whole lot grossly easier to get a bad nightblade out of stealth regardless.

And tbh about the tier list actually youre wrong about which class is second strongest to DK. I solo gold farm in imperial city and since the stakes are usually hundreds of thousands of gold you sorta figure out whats what pretty fast. The next contender is mag warden. Theres a mag warden dot build running ice furnace that has rather unhealable pressure and easily kills through maras. And after that i would say stam sorc running mara's/rallying cry/sithis gaze/master dw. And finally stamblade comes tied 4th with mag sorc (if the mag sorc is very good running a master inferno staff build that is) as neither can truly utilize mara's without having enough damage to kill anyone good. so no i wouldnt say nightblades are quite "second" though they are the easiest class to kill inexperienced players with and i believe thats why they have been continually nerfed since the games release.

DrNukenstein

I've died to the ice furnace warden. That build is no joke, arguably more tilting than corrosive spam DK or petting zoo meme sorc.

a gank blade has to sneak up on and invest a high ult balorgh empowered incap/dawnbreaker/onslaught to take a decent player down. That build just has to look at you and use frost reach once. It's brilliant, and whoever came up with it could probably hold the world hostage for a 100 million dollars.

Amerises

nublife01 wrote: »

kirk_lewis_ESO wrote: »

Discuss

Detect pots, 9-12 radius detection spammable mage light/evil hunter that also gives major savagery and other passives, new 7 meter range melee distance, daedric curse, blood scion, sleet storm, lightning form/hurricane, honestly any half decent dot pressure as heal casts bring us out of stealth, damage magicka poison, holding block button, theres definitely more should I continue? Shadowy disguise is the most counterable spell in the entire game. If you build your pvp kit correctly then even a titanborn eviscerate spamming 5% hp woodelf shouldnt be able to take you down. Sure I agree that unnatural movement is a little broken if abused correctly, but nightblade cloak is in absolute no shape or form broken. It used to be sure. But even in a damage meta (as opposed to the current tank meta) there are class abilities that are much harder to counter and a lot more powerful than cloak's current state.

This. Is pretty rare I kill anyone general rank or higher with a pure gank. Sure, I can get away most of the time, but there’s enough times where they survive the gank, counter my stealth, and kill me. DK, Templar, warden, NB, Sorc all have a good enough kit to withstand and kill a gank blade if you know what you’re doing. Necro on the other hand… well those are just fodder for anyone 🤷🏻‍♂️

pedrogonzalez

Idk I play nb without invis or heal cloak.
And it’s good.
The only who really needs invis is kitty-archers.
But I have nothing to be sad if zos just delete cloak and bow weapon from game.

Vetixio

NIghtblades are very strong at the moment but its not really because of cloak its because the devs keep buffing the damage of the class with the highest single target damage potential in PvP and they are the class that consistently avoids nerfs unlike the rest of the classes. The fact they have major resolve when using surprise attack/concealed weapon, shade for kiting, a strong burst heal in healthy offering and an ultimate that is basically a spammable in incap/soul harvest and a skill that hits as hard if not harder than an ultimate in spec bow is why Nightblades are a strong not just cloak lol.

birdik

Undying damage bunkers are broken