PTS Update 38 - Bug Reports for Combat Balance & Abilities

virtus753

The sticky single-target DoT components of weapon abilities are incapable of proccing enchantments. This affects Poison Arrow, Carve, Destructive Touch, Twin Slashes, etc.

All other components of weapon abilities properly proc enchants (for their full duration in the case of DoTs), including ground AoE DoTs (Volley, Elemental Storm/Rage, Wall of Elements, Stampede morph of Crit Charge), sticky AoE DoTs (Blade Cloak, Eye of the Storm), single-target direct damage (including the initial hit of Poison Arrow, Twin Slashes, and Destructive Touch), and AoE direct damage (including the initial hit of Carve).

This issue hinders builds like backbarring the Master's Bow, since we need to return to the back bar every 5 seconds to reapply Poison Arrow/Poison Injection/Venom Arrow or use a light attack to reproc an enchantment, even though Poison Arrow lasts 20 seconds. That problem does not exist with backbarring other arena sets like the Maelstrom's Bow and Volley, the Maelstrom's destro and Wall, the Maelstrom's 2-hander and Stampede, or the BRP dual wield and Blade Cloak, since all of those abilities continue to proc enchantments for their full duration even when you swap away.

Tannus15

virtus753 wrote: »

The sticky single-target DoT components of weapon abilities are incapable of proccing enchantments. This affects Poison Arrow, Carve, Destructive Touch, Twin Slashes, etc.

All other components of weapon abilities properly proc enchants (for their full duration in the case of DoTs), including ground AoE DoTs (Volley, Elemental Storm/Rage, Wall of Elements, Stampede morph of Crit Charge), sticky AoE DoTs (Blade Cloak, Eye of the Storm), single-target direct damage (including the initial hit of Poison Arrow, Twin Slashes, and Destructive Touch), and AoE direct damage (including the initial hit of Carve).

This issue hinders builds like backbarring the Master's Bow, since we need to return to the back bar every 5 seconds to reapply Poison Arrow/Poison Injection/Venom Arrow or use a light attack to reproc an enchantment, even though Poison Arrow lasts 20 seconds. That problem does not exist with backbarring other arena sets like the Maelstrom's Bow and Volley, the Maelstrom's destro and Wall, the Maelstrom's 2-hander and Stampede, or the BRP dual wield and Blade Cloak, since all of those abilities continue to proc enchantments for their full duration even when you swap away.

this was an intentional change made years ago. only 1 skill per weapon line will proc enchantments.

Side note, because blade cloak only procs every 2 seconds you get gaps in your backbar enchantments that you don't get with the other weapons.

also worth noting that vMA weapons and their respective skills are not balanced at all. inferno staff is just straight up more damage than bow for example, as well as being easier to cast since it's not ground targeted.
lightning staff AOE damage bonus only applies while you're holding the weapon, so inferno staff aoe is better than lighting staff aoe even though the passives would indicate otherwise.

it's also worth noting that sword and shield and resto staff don't have a back bar dot option that will proc enchants, making double shield tanking or double resto healing inferior.

virtus753

Tannus15 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

The sticky single-target DoT components of weapon abilities are incapable of proccing enchantments. This affects Poison Arrow, Carve, Destructive Touch, Twin Slashes, etc.

All other components of weapon abilities properly proc enchants (for their full duration in the case of DoTs), including ground AoE DoTs (Volley, Elemental Storm/Rage, Wall of Elements, Stampede morph of Crit Charge), sticky AoE DoTs (Blade Cloak, Eye of the Storm), single-target direct damage (including the initial hit of Poison Arrow, Twin Slashes, and Destructive Touch), and AoE direct damage (including the initial hit of Carve).

This issue hinders builds like backbarring the Master's Bow, since we need to return to the back bar every 5 seconds to reapply Poison Arrow/Poison Injection/Venom Arrow or use a light attack to reproc an enchantment, even though Poison Arrow lasts 20 seconds. That problem does not exist with backbarring other arena sets like the Maelstrom's Bow and Volley, the Maelstrom's destro and Wall, the Maelstrom's 2-hander and Stampede, or the BRP dual wield and Blade Cloak, since all of those abilities continue to proc enchantments for their full duration even when you swap away.

this was an intentional change made years ago. only 1 skill per weapon line will proc enchantments.

However it worked before, that’s clearly not correct as far as how the game works right now. All of the weapon abilities that deal damage do apply enchantments except for sticky DoTs on the target. I have literally just tested them all right now to be sure.

2-handed: Uppercut, Crit Charge, Cleave, Reverse Slash, and Berserker Strike all apply enchantments. The issue is with Carve’s DoT alone.

Dual Wield: Flurry, Twin Slashes, Whirlwind, Blade Cloak, and Hidden Dagger all apply enchantments. Twin Slashes’ DoT and Lacerate do not.

One Handed and Shield: Puncture, Low Slash, Shield Charge, and Power Bash all apply enchantments.

Bow: Snipe, Volley, Scatter Shot, Arrow Spray, Poison Arrow (initial hit), and Ballista proc enchantments. The only thing that doesn’t is the DoT part of Poison Arrow. (Ballista works because it is channeled direct damage.)

Destro: Force Shock, Wall, Reach (initial hit), Impulse, and Elemental Storm all proc enchantments. The only things that don’t are Reach’s DoT and Ele Sus (which is all status effects that are considered procs unable to proc procs like glyphs).

All weapon abilities that do damage successfully proc enchantments (except Lacerate, which is wholly a sticky DoT on the target). The issue is that the components that are sticky ST DoTs placed on enemies do not. (Sticky DoTs on us - Blade Cloak/Eye of the Storm - and ground DoTs do, as well as all direct damage, whether instant or channeled.) I don’t see any logic in that when every other component of these skills works just fine for enchantments.

ETA: They seem to have exempted these components specifically many years ago based on an evaluation of combat at the time. I would suggest they revisit that, since it was well before their standardization of skills, the significant nerf to skills in general but DoTs especially (including the shift in cadence of ticks), and the complete overhaul of CP. The reasoning behind the decision imo needs to be re-evaluated after a difference of literally half the game’s lifetime, especially when that time period has been full of drastic changes and when the single-target DoTs originally singled out have undergone significant adjustments in particular.

I will also add that I don’t think exact balance is achievable in an MMO, especially one like this. My goal is not balance but consistency. When a select few ability-altering weapons are tied to skills that can’t consistently proc enchants for most of their duration while most others are tied to skills that can, that creates an inconsistency that significantly hinders those weapons and builds. The uptime on a backbarred BRP DW is not going to be as good as a set whose associated skill ticks every second, correct, but it will not be nearly as bad as 25%, which is what you’ll get if you use the Master’s Bow with Poison Arrow and only reapply that skill after it’s run out.

CameraBeardThePirate

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Still no word on Backlash being bugged in PvP. Not even in the "known bug lists". Please communicate with us on this. It's insane that Templar has been without a burst damage ability for over a patch now.

HalfDragoness

Not sure if this is the correct thread for this comment as it does conern combat but not the player.

While exploring Anchre Egg Mine I encountered two enemies, one which went immediately invisible (I thought the enemy had used a skill to do so) I killed the visible enmy no problem, but the invisible enemy would not become visible again. I could see the visual when they charge a heavy attack but I couldn't target them and bashing seemed to stun them but didn't get rid of invisibility. I also didn't have any ground aoe attacks so I had no way of killing them. I had to run as far away as possible (back towards entrance) then sneak up on them to try and see the name of the enemy npc. They were Peryite's Vessel I targetted them with the first anarcist skill that launches 3 attacks (I forget the name) and did manage to kill them without them going invisible again.

I think this is a wierd bug? Don't know if this consistently happens though.

YandereGirlfriend

While we're listing imbalances and aggravations, I'll contribute that DIFFERENT poisons on DIFFERENT bars actually SHARE the same 10-second cooldown, which is ASININE.

Different enchantments, no matter where they are barred, all have individual cooldowns - so why this simple game mechanic is privileging enchantments over poisons is beyond my comprehension.

But it's also possible that it's just a janky bug.

CameraBeardThePirate

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

While we're listing imbalances and aggravations, I'll contribute that DIFFERENT poisons on DIFFERENT bars actually SHARE the same 10-second cooldown, which is ASININE.

Different enchantments, no matter where they are barred, all have individual cooldowns - so why this simple game mechanic is privileging enchantments over poisons is beyond my comprehension.

But it's also possible that it's just a janky bug.

This is intended, since you can craft different poisons with the same effects. Otherwise you'd be able to reach 100% uptime on certain effects with your poisons.

YandereGirlfriend

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

While we're listing imbalances and aggravations, I'll contribute that DIFFERENT poisons on DIFFERENT bars actually SHARE the same 10-second cooldown, which is ASININE.

Different enchantments, no matter where they are barred, all have individual cooldowns - so why this simple game mechanic is privileging enchantments over poisons is beyond my comprehension.

But it's also possible that it's just a janky bug.

This is intended, since you can craft different poisons with the same effects. Otherwise you'd be able to reach 100% uptime on certain effects with your poisons.

That is still asinine logic with any of a number of possible solutions. Using a single timer for all poisons is simply the laziest and worst of them.

Alternatives:

1. Put only poisons with a shared effect on the same timer
2. Tune certain effects to shorter durations to account for two possible poison sources
3. Live with higher uptime on certain effects because it is still a huge opportunity cost to run two poisons

As it is, the devs have clearly placed their thumb on the scale and weighted the game's mechanics heavily toward enchantments and away from poisons.

usmcjdking

virtus753 wrote: »

The sticky single-target DoT components of weapon abilities are incapable of proccing enchantments. This affects Poison Arrow, Carve, Destructive Touch, Twin Slashes, etc.

All other components of weapon abilities properly proc enchants (for their full duration in the case of DoTs), including ground AoE DoTs (Volley, Elemental Storm/Rage, Wall of Elements, Stampede morph of Crit Charge), sticky AoE DoTs (Blade Cloak, Eye of the Storm), single-target direct damage (including the initial hit of Poison Arrow, Twin Slashes, and Destructive Touch), and AoE direct damage (including the initial hit of Carve).

This issue hinders builds like backbarring the Master's Bow, since we need to return to the back bar every 5 seconds to reapply Poison Arrow/Poison Injection/Venom Arrow or use a light attack to reproc an enchantment, even though Poison Arrow lasts 20 seconds. That problem does not exist with backbarring other arena sets like the Maelstrom's Bow and Volley, the Maelstrom's destro and Wall, the Maelstrom's 2-hander and Stampede, or the BRP dual wield and Blade Cloak, since all of those abilities continue to proc enchantments for their full duration even when you swap away.

Please no. No one wants the Torug's/Infused Master's frost clench spam.

usmcjdking

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

While we're listing imbalances and aggravations, I'll contribute that DIFFERENT poisons on DIFFERENT bars actually SHARE the same 10-second cooldown, which is ASININE.

Different enchantments, no matter where they are barred, all have individual cooldowns - so why this simple game mechanic is privileging enchantments over poisons is beyond my comprehension.

But it's also possible that it's just a janky bug.

This is intended, since you can craft different poisons with the same effects. Otherwise you'd be able to reach 100% uptime on certain effects with your poisons.

That is still asinine logic with any of a number of possible solutions. Using a single timer for all poisons is simply the laziest and worst of them.

Alternatives:

1. Put only poisons with a shared effect on the same timer
2. Tune certain effects to shorter durations to account for two possible poison sources
3. Live with higher uptime on certain effects because it is still a huge opportunity cost to run two poisons

As it is, the devs have clearly placed their thumb on the scale and weighted the game's mechanics heavily toward enchantments and away from poisons.

This really should be addressed. A lot of fun builds for PVE and PVP focused on poisons COULD exist if both were available for use - a set like Assassin's Guile straight up becomes a buff set and not a meme set. But they are not, so we get this pretty neat concept that's been hamstrung for no appreciable reason.

ssewallb14_ESO

They disabled back bar enchants from procing off sticky dots because people were making enchantment spam builds in PvP with double dual wield and Torug's Pact that were way too strong. Their solution to nerfing them without a significant impact on PvE, or builds not abusing the mechanic, was to make back bar enchantments only proc off of ground dot based weapon abilities while on the front bar.

DrNukenstein

100m range on detect potions

Eliran

You literally made Stamblade's 100% useless in PVE for absolute no reason and you literally ignore anyone telling you so.

Currently Nightblades would do about 25% less DPS below the meta while having to work 10 times harder to do so.

Why nerf what is not broken while buffing other classes? there is just no excuse for doing that but blatantly telling people "we don't like you and want you to reroll the new class".

I don't even talk about buff, that nerf make absolute no sense!

Mayrael

tokeinskyblu wrote: »

With the updated change on how stealth detection breaks cloak,

Do the potions still pull people out of cloak or only sneak now?

@tokeinskyblu

Check this post, it explains it a bit:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7872167/#Comment_7872167

Galagladi Dragonblood

One Question @ZOS_GinaBruno what have you planned for the Arcanist in the Dungeon Graven Deep? I ask because there is an attack of the Endboss who steals certain abilities from Classes and use them frequently. Thats what cames me in mind as i farm the style page there right now and i haven't read any adjustment to this in Patch notes. Wouldn't it be a bit unfair for other classes who fights trough graven deep?

BlackHammer225

The ability Living Dark for Templar doesn't seem to be useful, it costs almost 4k for a heal that isn't all that greater or bad we can live without it. Maybe allow the ability to offer minor buffs like minor resolve to give more incentive to use the ability, the snare is pointless because Jabs and Sun Fire both apply the same snare of 40% which doesn't stack. I just want this ability to have more of a purpose instead of just being a straight heal which Templar has plenty of.

WrathOfInnos

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

They disabled back bar enchants from procing off sticky dots because people were making enchantment spam builds in PvP with double dual wield and Torug's Pact that were way too strong. Their solution to nerfing them without a significant impact on PvE, or builds not abusing the mechanic, was to make back bar enchantments only proc off of ground dot based weapon abilities while on the front bar.

That sounds like it could be solved with an IF statement. There are plenty of effects that only proc on "monsters" and not players. How about one more?

Eliran

Buff Stamblades asap, you made the class/spec useless with the CW nerf ..

birdik

Buff stamblades

xWALK1NGxTNT420

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin please fixed this it is not an addon bug it is not a UI
visual bug either, it is the real deal I assure you.

Makes players think they are terrible when really it is the game's code..

here is the evidence you're welcome in advance and stop whomever is deleting these things I say like it happening on newer generation consoles and not the old ones.

you could simply fix this by purging all effects at respawns in all of cyrodil...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UUr7YH6ssg3zCnHD6

xWALK1NGxTNT420

want to add to this. it doesnt go away with UI reload or dying it will stay on the character until relogging completely

I have a series s & an xbox slim, the series s has the issues the slim does not.. Could be one is running cloud and the other is running SSD and disc.

Dayhjawk

I feel like the changes to tri-force passive, is killing the thing that makes HA fun to play. Ju tnerf is down from 100% to 75%, etc instead of changing it.

Fire staff - think about how fire is. Single target, fine, damge over time, fine, Fire Spreads.........
Lightning staff - lightning builds up then strikes a target, effecting nearby objects. Single target, AOE, Channeled, yes!

Shara_Wynn

Sorcerer Ultimate Overload is bugged:

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

Hello Overload Bug. Now showing at the Zeal of Zenithar 2023 event!