Why the Arcanist?

AdexiTheOneEyed

To start off, I understand that everyone has been begging for a new class for years. As a business decision, its a great one. It will bring in a lot of money, which is how ZOS seems to gauge their actions by. Given the current balance issues in both PvE and PvP, or really, lack thereof, I believe a new class will only make it worse. Warden and Necro both did when they came out. The current system of nerfing classes and buffing 1 or 2 classes up too much isn't healthy for the game.
Granted, when Arcanist comes out I'm sure it will be buffed to immense proportions, like every other gear or mythic as a selling point for a new expansion.

So why Arcanist? Bard was a frontrunner on what I had seen people asking for, and it would have been a good return to Skyrim. Heck, we could have brought in bard as part of Western Skyrim with a better Bard's College questline. Although given that Necro had come out the year before, I didn't expect a new class the very next year.

The thing I have noticed however, is that every single race in this game has had an expansion tooled around them except Bosmer and Redguard, though some races prominently feature in more than 1 chapter. It would still be possible to do, even though most of their land is already base game. I had hoped for at least a Wood Elf Warden companion, but for some reason its an Argonian. At least the new class is a Redguard companion.

But if you want to play the new class early, head to FF14. Since Zos is so bent on copying a class from a more successful game. Granted, Arcanist on FF14 is a lot of fun, at level 30 it splits into Summoner (Mag dps) and Scholar (shield healer). It's a popular class, I can hardly blame them, and yet our first class in years should be more original, or more specific to Elder Scrolls, rather than a green sorcerer with tentacles. Something different would be nice, and Warden brought that when it was released, it was different from the current classes. Did I mention both classes that stem from Arcanist use a spellbook as a weapon?

Even the "new" Crux system is inspired from FF14. The Aetherflow gauge that Arcanist has in FF14 is fairly similar, still different but works similarly. Certain actions fill the gauge, which then opens up a couple new skills to use. Now, Crux varies by getting 3 stacks which can then be used to buff your current abilities.

I have no doubt that I'll enjoy Arcanist in ESO, I felt the same way about both Warden and Necro when they were coming out. I've enjoyed both classes, but they did do what I feared and make the balance issues worse. As someone who does both PvE and PvP, I have seen the balance issues on both sides. As I said earlier, the current "balance" system does more harm than good. I hope that ZOS looks at this, not as a huge critique but as a plea to balance the classes, to make the game more fun. I sincerely love this game, I started playing on Xbox 9 years ago. 4 years ago, I moved to PC, and had to start completely over. Take good care of your playerbase, and they'll do the same for you.

As a side note, I'll also be happy if Arcanist's portals aren't bugged so people can port into enemy keeps with them. I will be interested to see how the class functions in PvE and PvP.
As far as the endless debates for PvP and PvE, we all play this game. We all love this game. I've seen both sides blame each other for nerfs, and it's really no ones fault. Everyone deserves to have fun on the game, PvP players deserve to have fun in a less broken PvP experience (and bring back the double tel var event, Hakeijo prices are skyhigh with no checks and balances that the event brought for that market). PvE players deserve to have fun in their PvE land.

Sorry for the long post, I tried to explain myself as best I could, and to be as gracious as possible.

merpins

Redguard got the very first DLC, a free one, in ESO. Craglorn. Bosmer was the last, but it's likely it got scrapped for another marrowind expansion when the feedback to last year, compounded by U35. The class was the safest option if that is the case, as it would also help bring back memories of the marrowind expansion which was very popular at the time despite the backlash from the change to how combat worked at the time. It's a nostalgia expansion, both with marrowind and aprocrypha... It was probably a business decision.

Personally I'm happy with a new class. I know I'd be happier with spellcrafting as would a lot of other players, or vet overland, or a new general skill line or two... Arcanist made sense for the expansion, and they had a lot of previously made content from the ES5 Dragonborn expansion to reference when making it. Bard has no reference to fall back on in the ES game canon. Same with Monk. Another wizard class is a bit meh imo, woulda much rather had a barbarian or something, but it is what it is.

BaalMelqartu

I would have rather a druid or monk myself.
Monk abilities are already in the game via the final boss of Black Drake Villa.
Druid abilities are already in the game via the final boss of Earthen Root Enclave as well as some other NPCs.

That being said, I will make an Arcanist and try it out. It's something to look forward to. Looking forward to the new plane of oblivion. Not so much looking forward to yet another mushroom zone. I suppose they can't tickle each individual's fancy with each new thing though.

merpins

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I would have rather a druid or monk myself.

Druid exists, unfortunately. That'd be the Warden. I wish they didn't have Warden and Necro be designed to have one skill line for DPS, one for Tanking, and one for Healing. If they had designed them with themes in mind, then we'd probably have some damaging skills and tanking skills in the nature skill line, and some healing in the animal companions skill line. And and Ice skill line doesn't make any sense for the theme of the class, and I will always stand by that.

Faulgor

AdexiTheOneEyed wrote: »

To start off, I understand that everyone has been begging for a new class for years.

I haven't. Nor has it been a pressing demand in the forums, far as I can see, new weapons or skill lines coming up much more frequently. A new class is the last thing this game needs.
Most daily gripes people have are either with performance or which class over or under-performs. Who looks at that and thinks "yes, more of that, please"?

Besides that, the real issue with Arcanist specifically is that, once again, it is too specific to allow for our own power fantasies. Being a follower of a particular Daedric Prince should be a conviction my character has, at best being implemented as a separate skill line, but as a class itself it just doesn't make sense. Why not have a class for every Daedric Prince, then? Or any of the other religions and creeds found in Tamriel? The other classes are much more maleable in this, e.g. you could play a Nightblade as a Shadowscale, Morag Tong or Dark Brotherhood assassin; Templar as a follower of any of the Eight Divines, or even the Tribunal; Wardens as Bosmeri Spinners, Breton Druids or Nordic Skaal. But Arcanists will always be suck-ups for Herma Mora.

Along similar lines, Arcanists raise the question why ZOS avoids using any of the canonical Elder Scrolls classes. So far, only Nightblades and Sorcerers have made it in, and Sorcerers barely resemble what they used to be. Why not Battlemage, Spellsword, Witchhunter, Pilgrim, Scout, or Monk?

It's also another "evil" class, which we already have in abundance:
Dragonknight - uses techniques of Akaviri Invaders, ambivalent at best
Sorcerer - Daedra Summoner
Nightblade - murderous Assassin
Necromancer - its in the name
Arcanist - literal Daedra worshipper

The only "good" class is probably Templar, Wardens only appearing somewhat benign and nature-loving until their bear mauls your face off.
Arcanist won't add anything to the game it doesn't already have, neither in tone, theme, role or gameplay (even with the teased "Crux" system, all classes play more or less the same).

Jaimeh

If they really wanted to make ppl go crazy, they should have released an aquamancer class, with the kind of skills we've seen from new mobs last year, and then pair it with the release of a Maormer race.

Faulgor wrote: »

Necromancer - its in the name

The only "good" class is probably Templar, Wardens only appearing somewhat benign and nature-loving until their bear mauls your face off.

The necromancer bit made me laugh I don't think templars are benign though, just more righteous than the others, but it can also become problematic. I don't think any class with offensive skills can ever really be benign.

AdexiTheOneEyed

merpins wrote: »

Redguard got the very first DLC, a free one, in ESO. Craglorn. Bosmer was the last, but it's likely it got scrapped for another marrowind expansion when the feedback to last year, compounded by U35. The class was the safest option if that is the case, as it would also help bring back memories of the marrowind expansion which was very popular at the time despite the backlash from the change to how combat worked at the time. It's a nostalgia expansion, both with marrowind and aprocrypha... It was probably a business decision.

Personally I'm happy with a new class. I know I'd be happier with spellcrafting as would a lot of other players, or vet overland, or a new general skill line or two... Arcanist made sense for the expansion, and they had a lot of previously made content from the ES5 Dragonborn expansion to reference when making it. Bard has no reference to fall back on in the ES game canon. Same with Monk. Another wizard class is a bit meh imo, woulda much rather had a barbarian or something, but it is what it is.

This is very true, thanks for the reminder! Truthfully, ZOS makes a lot of decisions for the game as business ones, while the needs of the game fall to the wayside.

AdexiTheOneEyed

Jaimeh wrote: »

If they really wanted to make ppl go crazy, they should have released an aquamancer class, with the kind of skills we've seen from new mobs last year, and then pair it with the release of a Maormer race.

Faulgor wrote: »

Necromancer - its in the name

The only "good" class is probably Templar, Wardens only appearing somewhat benign and nature-loving until their bear mauls your face off.

The necromancer bit made me laugh I don't think templars are benign though, just more righteous than the others, but it can also become problematic. I don't think any class with offensive skills can ever really be benign.

I had a similar idea, except to be a Corsair, likely a Maormer pirate. Put water skills in the class and everything

BaalMelqartu

merpins wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I would have rather a druid or monk myself.

Druid exists, unfortunately. That'd be the Warden. I wish they didn't have Warden and Necro be designed to have one skill line for DPS, one for Tanking, and one for Healing. If they had designed them with themes in mind, then we'd probably have some damaging skills and tanking skills in the nature skill line, and some healing in the animal companions skill line. And and Ice skill line doesn't make any sense for the theme of the class, and I will always stand by that.

The examples I mentioned of druid abilities already present in the game are not the same as Warden. They are separate druid abilities. I agree that Warden and Druid would overlap in some areas, certainly but a Warden is not the same thing as a Druid in terms of Warden abilities present in the game and Druid abilities present in the game.

AdexiTheOneEyed

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

BaalMelqartu wrote: »

I would have rather a druid or monk myself.

Druid exists, unfortunately. That'd be the Warden. I wish they didn't have Warden and Necro be designed to have one skill line for DPS, one for Tanking, and one for Healing. If they had designed them with themes in mind, then we'd probably have some damaging skills and tanking skills in the nature skill line, and some healing in the animal companions skill line. And and Ice skill line doesn't make any sense for the theme of the class, and I will always stand by that.

The examples I mentioned of druid abilities already present in the game are not the same as Warden. They are separate druid abilities. I agree that Warden and Druid would overlap in some areas, certainly but a Warden is not the same thing as a Druid in terms of Warden abilities present in the game and Druid abilities present in the game.

Warden and Druid are MUCH too similar to be separate classes. Having too much overlap on class abilities isn't necessarily a good thing, even though ZOS is doing that with Sorcerer and Arcanist. Warden and Druid are similar but different, but the way they're set up, too similar to function as another class

FeedbackOnly

What balance issues because in PvE healers except dragon knight are doing equally well. Tanks are doing better in balance with soft taunt changes

AdexiTheOneEyed

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

What balance issues because in PvE healers except dragon knight are doing equally well. Tanks are doing better in balance with soft taunt changes

You just gave an example of a balance issue. And completely forgot that dps balance issues exist.

chessalavakia_ESO

Animation re-use could be a factor in the choice to do it.

If you already planned on having new animations for fighting npc's related to Mora it's less effort to make a new class around those animations than it is to create brand new ones.

It also would look less like you are re-using animations because players haven't seen those animations already.

Depending on how far in advance ZOS actually works on things it's possible the Arcanist is a late addition to designs that were completed months prior.

LunaFlora

i agree that bosmer need a chapter and a bosmer warden companion can still happen.

final fantasy isn't elder scrolls and the Arcanist class is related to Hermaeus Mora.

bard isnt a class non player characters have ever had in combat, there's only the bards that play music usually in towns.

not quite a bard but https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Meryline_Barthel is a thaumavocalist. though she uses her voice instead of instruments.

im confused why you mentioned Skyrim when talking about the bard class, skyrim doesnt have classes and it doesn't have any musical skills as far as i know?

mocap

Yeah, Bard class was in that old picture with the leaks. Something from that picture actually came true. But the bard never.

LunaFlora

mocap wrote: »

Yeah, Bard class was in that old picture with the leaks. Something from that picture actually came true. But the bard never.

what old picture?

Nestor

It always takes a while for the dust settle with a new class.

mocap

LunaFlora wrote: »

what old picture?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6503655/#Comment_6503655

post #38 December 2019
under spoiler

It is unlikely that it was a leak, most likely someone's predictions (especially spellcrafting part*), but neither is known for sure. Only Skyrim and Reach turned out to be true. This picture has no interest at this point, except nice map.

*spellcrafting was actually datamined back then. Many home furnishing items related to spellcrafting have been found with images. But it never happened in the end.

Luke_Flamesword

Nothing is true on this picture - even Skyrim and Reach were realeased in different shape and with different features and dates. There is no leak at all, just guessing so there is no point to even mention this thing.

mocap

After almost five years? Sure there is no point lol. I mean, a lot of people back then thought it would be a bard.

AdexiTheOneEyed

LunaFlora wrote: »

i agree that bosmer need a chapter and a bosmer warden companion can still happen.

final fantasy isn't elder scrolls and the Arcanist class is related to Hermaeus Mora.

bard isnt a class non player characters have ever had in combat, there's only the bards that play music usually in towns.

not quite a bard but https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Meryline_Barthel is a thaumavocalist. though she uses her voice instead of instruments.

im confused why you mentioned Skyrim when talking about the bard class, skyrim doesnt have classes and it doesn't have any musical skills as far as i know?

I'm confused why you're confused why I mentioned Skyrim, as it's home to the BARD'S COLLEGE.

LunaFlora

AdexiTheOneEyed wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i agree that bosmer need a chapter and a bosmer warden companion can still happen.

final fantasy isn't elder scrolls and the Arcanist class is related to Hermaeus Mora.

bard isnt a class non player characters have ever had in combat, there's only the bards that play music usually in towns.

not quite a bard but https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Meryline_Barthel is a thaumavocalist. though she uses her voice instead of instruments.

im confused why you mentioned Skyrim when talking about the bard class, skyrim doesnt have classes and it doesn't have any musical skills as far as i know?

I'm confused why you're confused why I mentioned Skyrim, as it's home to the BARD'S COLLEGE.

they're musicians not bards like in dungeons and dragons in which it is a class which is why im confused.

Luke_Flamesword

I don't know why so many people want bards in ESO - this is not a D&D world. Yes, we have bards in TES but they just musicians and don't fight with their lutes Yes, I know that there was a bard class in TES games, but it was just generic name for some set of skills and to be honest it was just some variation of nightblade with different vibe. There are many more interesting ideas for making new class than bard. I'm not big fan of arcanist theme but this is at least somehow original and fits the world (in very niche way, but still).

Ratzkifal

Bards should not become a class unless ZOS finds a backdoor, by for example, making it an Illusionist class that only uses an instrument to pretend to be using magic through music. There is no musical magic (available to the common folks) in Tamriel. So either you will be playing a class that's lying to itself or you won't get one at all.
The musical magic that does exist is so overpowered that it could never be reasonably put into the hands of the players, as you could literally sing people out of the timeline, to have never existed in past, present and future. If you want to be really generous, you could argue that Dragonknights are already using a severely nerfed version of it as their Akaviri breathing techniques likely mimic what the Dragons do, which itself is probably the weakest form of sound-based magic. Sword-Singers also potentially fall into this category and they could split the atom and probably nuked Yokuda in the process.

Do you see now why this magic can never be put into the hands of the players? This is not magic you would use on mudcrabs.