Just delete werewolf already

Panderbander

It's clear that's what the devs want to do. They routinely come out with content that specifically excludes werewolves from being able to complete it (think the 'hunt' mechanic from March of Sacrifices, A WEREWOLF THEMED DUNGEON) and now they EXPLICITLY change a trial to exclude us.

I would LOVE a back bar, I would LOVE some actual options when building my werewolves (yes, multiple, it's the only reason I still play this game), but that's not a thing and likely never will be. If we had the option to not run one bar, then sure, do this. If we had the option to stealth, fine, leave the hunt mechanic as is. BUT WE DO NOT and the devs have shown zero interest in enabling this red-headed stepchild of a playstyle equal access to the game we've spent ungodly amounts of real world cash on.

Let's not forget, this is a spec that gives zero unique group benefits but specifically encourages you to play in a group. It's so much of a leech on the group it's more vampiric than actual vampires.

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

Xandreia_

https://media.giphy.com/media/6wM4Zhs4h4PGo/giphy.gif

Panderbander

in case anyone missed it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7830902#Comment_7830902

Cloudrest
Voltaic Current no longer functions differently for players with a second weapon bar unlocked, and are in Werewolf form or have the Oakensoul item equipped.

The_Titan_Tim

Yeah, definitely didn’t understand the change to Voltaic.

It would have been much better if they changed the requirement into a resource dump, that does more damage, the more magicka you have, doing next-to-nothing around 30%.

Deleting playstyles instead of compensating for them, is the wrong approach.

deejayvee

Also, "forgetting" to add it to the patch notes before it went live was pretty low.

spartaxoxo

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Yeah, definitely didn’t understand the change to Voltaic.

It would have been much better if they changed the requirement into a resource dump, that does more damage, the more magicka you have, doing next-to-nothing around 30%.

Deleting playstyles instead of compensating for them, is the wrong approach.

I'm pretty sick of Magicka draining mechanics personally. But yeah, they should have come up with something else because nobody cared when it was werewolves for literally years.

Jaraal

Yeah it's funny that my werewolf can open doors, pick locks, and harvest nodes with his teeth, but he's incapable of using siege to help his alliance. Who made that decision? And why?

Grizzbeorn

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

fizl101

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Grizzbeorn

fizl101 wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Having a meltdown on the forum isn't constructive, and isn't going to inspire ZOS to make a change.
And if in some of these cases the demands are serious, then ruining the game for all of the people (in this specific case, werewolf players) who don't play a specific piece of content isn't a realistic (or fair) ask, either.

The_Titan_Tim

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Having a meltdown on the forum isn't constructive, and isn't going to inspire ZOS to make a change.
And if in some of these cases the demands are serious, then ruining the game for all of the people (in this specific case, werewolf players) who don't play a specific piece of content isn't a realistic (or fair) ask, either.

Nobody is genuinely asking for the removal of the specialization.

The OP is using a hyperbole (figurative speech) to get his point across, it’s quite common in literature, as it attracts attention to the problem.

No need to take it literally. 😁

Grizzbeorn

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Nobody is genuinely asking for the removal of the specialization.

Which is precisely why I said, having a meltdown on the forum is not constructive.
(in this case, making an unrealistic demand simply for the sake of expressing one's anger.)
Devs tend to ignore points made in such fashion.

Panderbander

I've made constructive posts. I've watched other's constructive posts get ignored.

I don't even PVE all that often, typically only if I'm looking for a specific set. This ultimately doesn't affect me much, but that doesn't mean that I can not or should not express outrage over it.

Werewolf is already a meme'd on "roleplay" spec in every aspect of this game and making it more difficult for a spec that doesn't even perform on par with new one-bar builds (read: Lightning HA builds) to do content just reduces the amount of people that play it and by extension likely the amount of care from the devs that it deserves. I feel I am justified in being upset over these continuous little slights, particularly when they are made against the only thing keeping me playing this game.

And yes, the OP was hyperbole. Clearly I don't really want werewolf deleted from the game.

Grizzbeorn

Panderbander wrote: »

I've made constructive posts. I've watched other's constructive posts get ignored.

I don't even PVE all that often, typically only if I'm looking for a specific set. This ultimately doesn't affect me much, but that doesn't mean that I can not or should not express outrage over it.

Werewolf is already a meme'd on "roleplay" spec in every aspect of this game and making it more difficult for a spec that doesn't even perform on par with new one-bar builds (read: Lightning HA builds) to do content just reduces the amount of people that play it and by extension likely the amount of care from the devs that it deserves. I feel I am justified in being upset over these continuous little slights, particularly when they are made against the only thing keeping me playing this game.

And yes, the OP was hyperbole. Clearly I don't really want werewolf deleted from the game.

I'm not saying you don't have a right to feel outraged. I understand! Fourteen of my eighteen characters are werewolves.
All I am saying is that making hyperbolic, unrealistic demands is an empty endeavor, for all of the effect on change it will have. Any points made in such a way tend to be summarily dismissed. That is part of the reason why they are so adamant about enforcing a civil, constructive environment around here.
They want feedback from us, but no dev is going to take a hyperbolic, angry rant seriously. And why should they?

Panderbander

This got people talking, didn't it? And yeah, I know the werewolf feels, 18/18 are werewolves on my account.

Sometimes people need to see that people are actually upset over things to decide to do anything, particularly if that upset could negatively impact their bottom line.

But to your point, I have a list of suggestions in the combat and character mechanics forum. It has received 60 views and zero interaction as of my typing this, and is currently sitting ignored on the second page.

ApoAlaia

We are talking about the team that thought that deleting completely Mist Form from PvE for more than a year was a reasonable and measured response to players using the ability in a way that did not align with their perspective in a specific scenario of a specific piece of content.

Making thoughtless changes that result in harm is par for the course.

Anifaas

This situation does not affect me. However, I feel for those whom it impacts. The lack of conversation and input from ZOS regarding this topic is very disappointing.

MaleAmazon

I play a werewolf and honestly I don´t have a problem with it. It´s one mechanic in one trial. It´s a pretty dumb mechanic to begin with IMO - without raid notifier (or whichever of my adddons gives the message) I would not know what to do... ZOS are kind of damned either way here - either they allow bypass and then people complain (more) about oakensoul, or they don´t allow a bypass.

Just get out of werewolf form for awhile. Heck , most of the time I have to reapply werewolf form in Cloudrest since the leader has to divide groups and explain mechanics for 5 mins. It´s a minor inconvenience.

The fact that I have to alttab to guides in order to understand how the mechanics actually work, since they aren´t really explained in-game (they do make something of an effort though), is worse.

sharquez

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Nobody is genuinely asking for the removal of the specialization.

Which is precisely why I said, having a meltdown on the forum is not constructive.
(in this case, making an unrealistic demand simply for the sake of expressing one's anger.)
Devs tend to ignore points made in such fashion.

Hah. I don't think any feedback is considered unless it points out something game breaking and even that is 50/50 for a 3 month game of kick the can.

Heromofo

fizl101 wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Definitely seems like a big nail in the head for sure

ghastley

I thought a werewolf was someone who alternated between wolf and human forms. If you remain in wolf form all the time, you’re just a wolf.

There are a lot of situations in the game where a specific action plays against you. Wolf form should be no different, especially as it can be turned off on demand.

Panderbander

ghastley wrote: »

I thought a werewolf was someone who alternated between wolf and human forms. If you remain in wolf form all the time, you’re just a wolf.

There are a lot of situations in the game where a specific action plays against you. Wolf form should be no different, especially as it can be turned off on demand.

It can't be turned on on demand, though, nor can we gain ultimate to enable that while in form. Werewolf is unjustifiably negatively impacted by this change. Imagine if there was a fight that basically said "for a duration you must stop being a Dragonknight and start being a sorceror." It's extreme but a similar concept (yes, I know class changes aren't possible), and these sorts of things pop up all the time in this game's design. Besides, considering half our passives are for enabling us to stay in werewolf form permanently I am confident in my position that the playstyle was not designed with the intent that you would be alternating back and forth between the two. There are two transformation ultimates that already do that, and that intent to be temporary is clear in their design.

Requiring a werewolf to drop form negates the point of being a werewolf in the first place and you may as well not even bother slotting it because it actively harms you and the group in this case.

Sheezabeast

I mean....what stops you from dropping form when VO hits, then rebuilding ult? Come on, in a trial, people run sets that boost ult regen, as can you, you can even use Minor Heroism potions. You have options. You're arguing that you can't run a trial in Ultimate mode constantly. Why should people who run WW be able to be in form with almost complete uptime, it doesn't balance with the other ultimate's.

CP5

Werewolf is balanced around maintaining the form, it isn't like the vampire lord or bone colossus where you get an insane spike in power but for a short time, it's more of a limited time alternate bar you often have to build a large amount of your kit around using well anyway. Giving up all other ultimates so you can constantly stun yourself by transforming into and out of form is a headache and so much weaker than just using almost anything else, it isn't just "Well drop form when you get VO," it's more "You would be cutting off your legs to make it work particularly well, and at that point just replace WW with any other ultimate, and you'll do better."

Toanis

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

The OP is using a hyperbole (figurative speech) to get his point across, it’s quite common in literature, as it attracts attention to the problem.

No need to take it literally. 😁

Well, last time a hyperbole was used repeadedly, vampirism stopped being a sustain must-have for everyone and *did* become a roleplaying choice that is detrimental to actual gameplay unless you fully embrace your nature as a bloodfiend.

So careful what you ask for, the devs might deliver.

Androrix

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Nobody is genuinely asking for the removal of the specialization.

The OP is using a hyperbole (figurative speech) to get his point across, it’s quite common in literature, as it attracts attention to the problem.

No need to take it literally. 😁

That was how I read the post as well.

I did get the werewolf form and maxed it out. I don't use it though, because I don't really enjoy it. I also find it too fussy; vamprism even moreso. I see it more as a role-playing experience for people.

Panderbander

CP5 wrote: »

Werewolf is balanced around maintaining the form, it isn't like the vampire lord or bone colossus where you get an insane spike in power but for a short time, it's more of a limited time alternate bar you often have to build a large amount of your kit around using well anyway. Giving up all other ultimates so you can constantly stun yourself by transforming into and out of form is a headache and so much weaker than just using almost anything else, it isn't just "Well drop form when you get VO," it's more "You would be cutting off your legs to make it work particularly well, and at that point just replace WW with any other ultimate, and you'll do better."

This, 100%. A werewolf build is built for werewolf, not one or the other. Werewolf has its own needs that a "human" build doesn't necessarily need, and it's own strengths that aren't necessarily fulfilled as a human. If a mechanic is forcing you to stop being a werewolf for any duration then you are quite literally better off completely dropping werewolf and building for whatever class you're playing instead.

As an example, I have a heavily bleed focused build on one of my Templar werewolves. As a werewolf I can put four different bleeds on a target with it, all of which are boosted by Blooddrinker. It's quite strong and does its job well. It is on a Templar, however. As a Templar I can proc a single bleed without resorting to a bar full of weapon skills from a specific weapon line, and that's from one of the sets used. It is not nearly as good outside of werewolf form, to the point I'm better off building just to survive long enough to get back into form if I happen to fall out for whatever reason.

thepandalore

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It would have been much better if they changed the requirement into a resource dump, that does more damage, the more magicka you have, doing next-to-nothing around 30%.

That's an awesome idea. It could be made even more punishing if Voltaic were to apply the healthbar debuff to Oakensouls & Werewolves that expires when resources reach a certain threshold, like the 30% you mentioned.

The_Titan_Tim

thepandalore wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

It would have been much better if they changed the requirement into a resource dump, that does more damage, the more magicka you have, doing next-to-nothing around 30%.

That's an awesome idea. It could be made even more punishing if Voltaic were to apply the healthbar debuff to Oakensouls & Werewolves that expires when resources reach a certain threshold, like the 30% you mentioned.

My thoughts exactly, currently Voltaic is intended to slow damage down, the proposed change would do the exact same, as you would be forced to use your most expensive abilities repeatedly to drain your resource, yielding the same result.

Jaraal

fizl101 wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Don't forget the Update 38 nerf.

Everyone else in the game got 2 more meters of melee range.... except werewolf.

Panderbander

Jaraal wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

Just do it already. Delete werewolf from the game.

So because of one mechanic in one trial, you want them to delete a popular playstyle/skill line from the entire game.

Can we stop with these kinds of demands?

TBH For werewolves I suspect its just the straw that broke the camels back. Its that last change that brings the frustration in a line of frustrations for werewolf players

Don't forget the Update 38 nerf.

Everyone else in the game got 2 more meters of melee range.... except werewolf.

I made a thread about it on the PTS during week one. No responses, but then nobody got responses this PTS...