Lack of consistency and meaning in nomenclature (eg. blocking)
tincanman
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Devs, please use the words 'block' or 'blocking' when describing block & blocking in patch notes and ui; 'bracing' isn't a synonym for blocking and means something else entirely.
blocking def
bracing def
As it is this 'bracing' word - which mean something completely different - is creeping in almost randomly serving only to muddy the descriptions.
Same goes for other terms, too, please parse them and establish and maintain a simple and consistent nomenclature.
Sure, not a huge issue but it looks like an easy one to fix.
Thanks.
blocking def
bracing def
As it is this 'bracing' word - which mean something completely different - is creeping in almost randomly serving only to muddy the descriptions.
Same goes for other terms, too, please parse them and establish and maintain a simple and consistent nomenclature.
Sure, not a huge issue but it looks like an easy one to fix.
Thanks.
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Grizzbeorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭'Bracing,' in the context of game-play in this game, is standing still and holding block; i.e., a long-term, stationary block.
They don't use the two terms interchangeably.Edited by Grizzbeorn on March 13, 2023 2:59PM16 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Grizzbeorn wrote: »'Bracing,' in the context of game-play in this game, is standing still and holding block; i.e., a long-term, stationary block.
They don't use the two terms interchangeably.
That would be false:....Bar swapping while you are actively bracing (holding Block) will no longer temporarily disable Block. This should significantly reduce the situations of dying while bar swapping. Tanks rejoice, your power will no longer know bounds!...7 -
PrinceShroob✭✭✭✭✭"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
The term "Bracing" was specifically introduced to clear up confusion regarding when certain sets or skills activated, because saying "while Blocking" could potentially mean either "while holding the Block key or control" or "when you Block an attack, i.e., get hit while holding the Block key or control."
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "holding the Block key or control."Edited by PrinceShroob on March 13, 2023 3:51PM16 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.Edited by tincanman on March 13, 2023 3:36PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.11 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Your example demonstrates the at best (tautology) scenario: 'blocking' describes the action so well you had to use the word to describe the action.0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Your example demonstrates the at best (tautology) scenario: 'blocking' describes the action so well you had to use the word to describe the action.
I used the name of the key, block, to describe the button you have to hold to brace.
Still, bracing is being used correctly by zos, myself, and others in this thread. That is exactly what bracing is.2 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Your example demonstrates the at best (tautology) scenario: 'blocking' describes the action so well you had to use the word to describe the action.
I used the name of the key, block, to describe the button you have to hold to brace.
Still, bracing is being used correctly by zos, myself, and others in this thread. That is exactly what bracing is.
It's also what blocking is. Which is the problem. If they don't want that also to be what blocking is, they need to refer to the primary action of holding down the key not as "blocking" and using the "block key" but as "bracing" and the "brace key".1 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Your example demonstrates the at best (tautology) scenario: 'blocking' describes the action so well you had to use the word to describe the action.
I used the name of the key, block, to describe the button you have to hold to brace.
Still, bracing is being used correctly by zos, myself, and others in this thread. That is exactly what bracing is.
It is still blocking - the term bracing is, at best, a tautology and completely and unnecessarily superfluous.1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For example:
Brace: You brace a door with a bar in preparation of someone attempting to break the door down.
Block: The bar that you have braced the door with then blocks entry from the person attempting to break it down.
If a person never comes to break the door down, the door is still being braced by the bar. But it is not blocking anything.3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PrinceShroob wrote: »"Block" and "Blocked" refer to actually taking a hit while holding the Block key or control. "Bracing" refers to the stance taken when holding the Block key or control.
This is to clear up confusion regarding tooltips that say things like "while Blocking," which could be ambiguous (does it mean when you actively block an attack, or does it include simply holding the Block key, too?).
In this case, it appears that the patch notes say "holding Block," meaning the Block control. I'm not sure how much clearer it could be other than saying "Block key or control."
Block is demonstrably used synonymously.
The only confusion is caused with using the word 'bracing' which doesn't mean block - at best it's a tautology.
That's not actually true though.
Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Your example demonstrates the at best (tautology) scenario: 'blocking' describes the action so well you had to use the word to describe the action.
I used the name of the key, block, to describe the button you have to hold to brace.
Still, bracing is being used correctly by zos, myself, and others in this thread. That is exactly what bracing is.
It's also what blocking is. Which is the problem. If they don't want that also to be what blocking is, they need to refer to the primary action of holding down the key not as "blocking" and using the "block key" but as "bracing" and the "brace key".
Not exactly though. One can block as needed, rather than brace. Only hitting the block key when an attack is incoming, or active blocking. Bracing is more of a passive thing.1 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭...Bracing oneself is to set yourself into a stance or position to receive impact from something else, or catch something.
You brace yourself to block an attack. So, holding block, while no attacks are incoming, is in fact, bracing.
Not according to the in-game help(cf. 'blocking'):
The description of 'blocking' is given as "to put yourself in a defensive posture" - as you have attempted to describe/justify the tautological 'bracing' term.7 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.1 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
edit: Blocking is: To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack. By defintion.Edited by tincanman on March 13, 2023 4:15PM3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
It's not, as I have shown. Bracing is the act of preparing to block. Those two things are not the same. Not in this context especially. You are just wrong here. That's ok.0 -
itsfatbass✭✭✭✭✭Bracing is the act of holding block in preparation for an attack; blocking is actively receiving an attack while bracing. Make sense?Edited by itsfatbass on March 13, 2023 4:33PM~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~3 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also, using a definition of something: namely, "To put yourself into a defensive posture" without using the term that is being described is a fairly common occurrence, in like life in general.
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
edit: Blocking is: To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack. By defintion.
Actually no.
Blocking is an active thing:
" The act of preventing someone or something from advancing, passing, or progressing,"
The act of preventing.
Bracing is a preparation to perform that act.4 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grizzbeorn wrote: »'Bracing,' in the context of game-play in this game, is standing still and holding block; i.e., a long-term, stationary block.
They don't use the two terms interchangeably.
That would be false:....Bar swapping while you are actively bracing (holding Block) will no longer temporarily disable Block. This should significantly reduce the situations of dying while bar swapping. Tanks rejoice, your power will no longer know bounds!...
In the example you are providing they are noting the player is holding block (which is bracing) and block is holding block for just a moment.
As such @Grizzbeorn is accurate in that Zenimax does not use the terms interchangeably. There is a very big difference between the two which seems to be lost on what is stated in the OP.
Edited by Amottica on March 13, 2023 6:09PM2 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"To put your character in a defensive posture to BRACE for an incoming attack." Is what it should say. You brace by holding block and the Psijiic shield activates, even if no damage comes in. You hold block wearing Meridia's Blessed armor, the 5th set bonus will not work unless damage occurs while you are bracing, thus creating a successful block and the set then proceeds to its 5th bonus.
Brace for impact - a preparation for an action to take place
Block the impact - an action is taking placeFear is the Mindkiller3 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
It's not, as I have shown. Bracing is the act of preparing to block. Those two things are not the same. Not in this context especially. You are just wrong here. That's ok.
Stating I am wrong without proof is fallacious.
The in-game definition describes 'block' and 'blocking'. Again: bracing is not mentioned.
Where is this superfluous definition for 'bracing' given in game? Or patch notes(other than as a tautology for block/blocking)? I am aware the word 'bracing' has been creeping in over the last year or so but it's unnecesary, redundant and without specific definition - unlike 'block' and 'blocking' which are clearly and unambiguously defined.
Blocking (and block) is perfectly adequate - as given by the defintion - and does not require an additional, undefined term. As per my original suggestion.
My original suggestion remains: the term 'bracing' is superfluous, 'block' and 'blocking' suffice in all usages and I'd respectfully suggest removing the redundant 'bracing' term as it - clearly - muddies the waters.
Thanks for interesting discussion, though.
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jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
It's not, as I have shown. Bracing is the act of preparing to block. Those two things are not the same. Not in this context especially. You are just wrong here. That's ok.
Stating I am wrong without proof is fallacious.
The in-game definition describes 'block' and 'blocking'. Again: bracing is not mentioned.
Where is this superfluous definition for 'bracing' given in game? Or patch notes(other than as a tautology for block/blocking)? I am aware the word 'bracing' has been creeping in over the last year or so but it's unnecesary, redundant and without specific definition - unlike 'block' and 'blocking' which are clearly and unambiguously defined.
Blocking (and block) is perfectly adequate - as given by the defintion - and does not require an additional, undefined term. As per my original suggestion.
My original suggestion remains: the term 'bracing' is superfluous, 'block' and 'blocking' suffice in all usages and I'd respectfully suggest removing the redundant 'bracing' term as it - clearly - muddies the waters.
Thanks for interesting discussion, though.
Brace yourself, you've been blocking all of my valid arguments this entire discussion.4 -
tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
It's not, as I have shown. Bracing is the act of preparing to block. Those two things are not the same. Not in this context especially. You are just wrong here. That's ok.
Stating I am wrong without proof is fallacious.
The in-game definition describes 'block' and 'blocking'. Again: bracing is not mentioned.
Where is this superfluous definition for 'bracing' given in game? Or patch notes(other than as a tautology for block/blocking)? I am aware the word 'bracing' has been creeping in over the last year or so but it's unnecesary, redundant and without specific definition - unlike 'block' and 'blocking' which are clearly and unambiguously defined.
Blocking (and block) is perfectly adequate - as given by the defintion - and does not require an additional, undefined term. As per my original suggestion.
My original suggestion remains: the term 'bracing' is superfluous, 'block' and 'blocking' suffice in all usages and I'd respectfully suggest removing the redundant 'bracing' term as it - clearly - muddies the waters.
Thanks for interesting discussion, though.
Brace yourself, you've been blocking all of my valid arguments this entire discussion.
LOL
Assertion is not proof - simpy reiterating the same thing without proof is not a valid argument and doesn't make it true.
Nor block my valid arguments.
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tincanman✭✭✭✭✭
✭However, since this is a forum and consensus reigns and, given the consensus appears to be against my suggestion I will leave it at that for zos to look into or ignore at their discretion.
Thanks, again, for the interesting discussion - it's been fun. 1 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭My two cents: I looked at the champion points menu, saw a reference to bracing, and didn't put points into it because I have no idea what "bracing" means to ZOS when everywhere else they use "block". The latter is the term they have ordinarily used (incorrectly, as a matter of the English language, but that was their choice).
It is bad design. It simply isn't consistent. As I say, the champion points menu, at the very least, needs a glossary.Edited by Northwold on March 13, 2023 6:11PM6 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"To put yourself into a defensive position" is literally what bracing means.
The quote says: "To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack"
The first part of that sentence could also read: "To brace yourself to block an incoming attack". You see how they intentionally described the action of bracing in preparation of blocking something. They didn't say: To block and attack to block an incoming attack. Because bracing and blocking are not the same thing.
It's under the description for 'block' and 'blocking'.
No where is the word 'bracing' used. As it should be because that word is a useless tautology.
edit: Blocking is: To put yourself in a defensive posture to Block an incoming attack. By defintion.
Bracing is the holding of block for an extended period of time. There is not no need to mention it in the tooltips.
With that, there is a need to use a term for pressing and holding block for an extended period of time since there are aspects of the game that are affected by holding block vs just pressing it for a moment such as the effects on stamina/magicka regen.
That is the reason for the different terms and Zenimax is using it accurately and properly.
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FantasticFreddie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All blocking is bracing
Not all bracing is blocking
Or at least, that's my understanding3 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zos made the game... they define the terms.
Take crit chance for example, it's a flat value taken as a percentage of some obscure arbitrary number that isn't documented in game and no one remembers.
Also, distance... no where in game is a meter actually stated or used. You have to assume that if you can hit something at 25 meters and skill says you can, that you will.0