Decided to try PVP - what a complete mess

Heals_With_Orbs

I've been played ESO for 6 years now, mainly PVE content, but after completing most of that I thought I'd give PVP a bit of a try as I thought it would freshen things up. How wrong i was....

Firstly, I was a bit shocked at the dreadful lag, daily disconnects, lost lobby connections, choppy audio when there's big battles, unresponsive controls - and the list goes on

Not only that, but the broken sets in the game, like Maras Balm and Dark convergence. I didnt realise that this was PVTD, player VS target dummies! I know the tank meta is the thing, but seeing 40-50 people not being able to take down 1 single player isnt PVP, its a complete farce.

Another thing is these crappy ball groups, which I thought ZOS were keen to discourage? I guess not seeing as they wander around almost completely immune to any kind of counter attack, roll over players to farm people for AP points, probably laughing out loud at the sheer ridiculousness of it all, which is rather silly considering the sets that were supposed to prevent these goons are now being used to their advantage.

Something else that I find odd, and that's these dreaded nightblade cheese builds, who often 1 shot players. Is this called PVP or PVI? player vs an invisible man? I get the NB is a cool class, but its pure garbage players can take someone down instantly, and that to me is an unfair advantage. Even casting magelight doesn't seem to do what it says as they return to stealth before the spell ends

Stuck in combat! Really? even when I'm about 1 million miles away from someone on the other side of the map? It gets a bit tiring going to Sheogoraths Cheese Land just to sort that out, and running on a map because I can't mount my horse......why is this still an issue despite years of people reporting this bug?

I have to say, my opinion of ESO has completely changed now...I actually took out a subscription for the first time a few months ago, but I won't be doing that again, nor buying anymore ZOS products, because in my opinion, while people plough money into it there's no incentive to fix this broken game that myself and millions of other have bought

[snip]

[edited for conspiracy theory]

mocap

Try non CP campaign then. No proc sets, no lags, no bombers, no immortal ballgroups, no volendrung.
Almost paradise )

OBJnoob

Yeah, the populated campaigns are really bad sometimes. I'm not going to defend it.

But try battlegrounds. PvP is pretty awesome in this game-- not that anything you said is wrong.

mocap

OBJnoob wrote: »

Yeah, the populated campaigns are really bad sometimes.

This point is kinda incomprehensible - the campaign is popular, but everyone complains. What? It begs the question - do all complain, or do only a few complain, and the rest adapt as best they can?

Think about it, guys.

Brrrofski

Welcome to our life over the past 5 or 6 years or whatever it is now that PvP has been broken.

People wonder why we "complain" so much.

mocap

People wonder why everyone complain so much, yet everyone keep playing CP campaign so much. Am I the only one who sees a contradiction here?

Four_Fingers

Seems like a compilation of all the threads someone read about PvP on the forums.
Not that most of it isn't true.

Holycannoli

mocap wrote: »

Try non CP campaign then. No proc sets, no lags, no bombers, no immortal ballgroups, no volendrung.
Almost paradise )

and no population. Maybe it's different on other servers but on PC-NA noone plays it. It's for porting from IC and maybe doing some easy PvE like shard collecting.

mocap

So campaign WITHOUT all that problems described in 0 post isn't populated and campaign WITH all that problems heavy populated.

Does anyone, please, can explain me, how this can even possible?

Vulkunne

mocap wrote: »

So campaign WITHOUT all that problems described in 0 post isn't populated and campaign WITH all that problems heavy populated.

Does anyone, please, can explain me, how this can even possible?

lol I don't understand it either.

Four_Fingers

Because they need large groups of casuals trying out PvP to 1vX.

Vulkunne

Heals_With_Orbs wrote: »

I've been played ESO for 6 years now, mainly PVE content, but after completing most of that I thought I'd give PVP a bit of a try as I thought it would freshen things up. How wrong i was....

Firstly, I was a bit shocked at the dreadful lag, daily disconnects, lost lobby connections, choppy audio when there's big battles, unresponsive controls - and the list goes on

Not only that, but the broken sets in the game, like Maras Balm and Dark convergence. I didnt realise that this was PVTD, player VS target dummies! I know the tank meta is the thing, but seeing 40-50 people not being able to take down 1 single player isnt PVP, its a complete farce.

Another thing is these crappy ball groups, which I thought ZOS were keen to discourage? I guess not seeing as they wander around almost completely immune to any kind of counter attack, roll over players to farm people for AP points, probably laughing out loud at the sheer ridiculousness of it all, which is rather silly considering the sets that were supposed to prevent these goons are now being used to their advantage.

Something else that I find odd, and that's these dreaded nightblade cheese builds, who often 1 shot players. Is this called PVP or PVI? player vs an invisible man? I get the NB is a cool class, but its pure garbage players can take someone down instantly, and that to me is an unfair advantage. Even casting magelight doesn't seem to do what it says as they return to stealth before the spell ends

Stuck in combat! Really? even when I'm about 1 million miles away from someone on the other side of the map? It gets a bit tiring going to Sheogoraths Cheese Land just to sort that out, and running on a map because I can't mount my horse......why is this still an issue despite years of people reporting this bug?

I have to say, my opinion of ESO has completely changed now...I actually took out a subscription for the first time a few months ago, but I won't be doing that again, nor buying anymore ZOS products, because in my opinion, while people plough money into it there's no incentive to fix this broken game that myself and millions of other have bought

[snip]

You feel kind of 'abused' in other words. Yeah... I've been there too you could say *chuckles*.

Where there's a will there's a way. It starts with expecting lousy people to come at you sideways. I had someone the other day try and bomb my DK straight up, solo, and failed because I was prepared for it. Was pretty embarrassing for them and haven't seen that person on my server since lol.

Believe it or not Karma makes its rounds.

[edited quote]

Lebkuchen

@mocap when they say "popular" campaign, they mean the main campaign, the pop locked campaign where the "Alliance War" is happening and where most pvp guilds are playing. The other campaigns are empty (outside of PvP events) [snip], people who just want to get the emp title, pve questers and all sorts of other players who don't really want to play the Cyrodiil war.

Because of all the bugs and performance issues, the pvp population is not high enough to fill 2 campaigns. Even after they shrunk down the population cap to almost nothing. What is it now? 60 per alliance? So no, not "everyone keep playing CP campaign so much", it's the only campaign where you can have "big" battles. And most people want to go to Cyrodiil for big battles. Some of us only started playing this game, because we were promised big pvp battles. Otherwise you can always duel, play battlegrounds, go to empty campaigns to do naked fistfights, or play one of the hundreds of other games that offer small scale pvp.

Some people keep playing the CP campaign because they like it, when it works. It works fine sometimes. Not good, but ok enough to keep some players hooked. So they are waiting for performance improvements and bugfixes, because why would a company not fix their product and just leave it in a miserable state like that. Some players have been waiting for years, because they just can't believe that this company would keep neglecting this awesome gamemode for much longer. Every day they hope for improvements, and every day they are disappointed because their skills don't work when it gets interesting. But don't worry, most pvp players already left. And some of the biggest fans, who have been waiting and hoping for years, leave every day.

[snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

ProudMary

Believe it or not there was a time when PvP performance was pretty good. Population caps were 4-8x higher per faction then too.

ZOS could make PvP great again if they wanted to.

kilroy5250

Agree 100% with the ridiculous state of PVP. Gankers, Ball Groups and unkillable players. Not fun.

chessalavakia_ESO

mocap wrote: »

People wonder why everyone complain so much, yet everyone keep playing CP campaign so much. Am I the only one who sees a contradiction here?

Keep in mind that some of us just do Cyrodiil for the rewards.

In a populated campaign, I can just turn on a tv show and spend a bit of time with the zerg and it's easy to find one.

In an unpopulated campaign, I can get AP faster if things go well but, if they don't you can easily end up getting next to nothing and you need to pay more attention the whole time.

Cyrodiil also has a daily for completing Warfront missions.

On a populated campaign, you can grind out the kill 40 quite fast because you just need to tag 40 people that die. You can see how this would take far longer on an unpopulated campaign.

Saint-Ange

as a rule of thumb never play gear based pvp games. there's a long time the pvp scene moved from these.

Redguards_Revenge

You are right ESO PVP isn't fair. It will never be. It isn't about pure skill. It's about some skill and the sets doing most of the work. This is FACT. Anyone telling you otherwise don't know any better. I've played eso PVP for years now. I retired after I kept realizing I was running in the same logical loop when I lost. I took pvp as far as I could with the average sets. No amount of skill will ever get the drop on someone with decent skills and the brand new sets. This game isn't competative.

10 years of skill with average sets won't beat a person with some months of skills and the top sets...no...10 years of skill and the top sets from 3 years ago won't as well....

This is how the game works. Just accept it and when you die, move on. ESO is NOT a pvp game. It was at one point but it became something else.... Asking ZoS to change their game this deep into it won't work. I've tried warning them since 2017 that this practice was not competitive...well unless one has the larger wallet. Then this made ZoS double...triple...quadruple down on their practices. I go into games to leave that. It's why I now only play PVE story mode. Since I PVPed most of my time on ESO I never did the PVE content. [snip]

[Edited for Quit Post]

OBJnoob

@mocap oh I agree 100%. I played in Ravenwatch for about 5 years total, years before the proc change and however long it's been after. I've definitely confused myself several times wondering why the complainers don't shift over.

And a lot of those reasons have already been said here. The non-proc requirement-- whether it's good or bad-- is confusing. And it is relatively dead most of the time. And some people just really need CP to feel end-game. And you really don't find those big groups of X-able Squishies very often in Ravenwatch. Mostly veteran players there, fighting the same people every night. Feels a lot like BGs, honestly, depending what mmr you're in.

Four_Fingers wrote: »

Because they need large groups of casuals trying out PvP to 1vX.

This is certainly a jaded view-- but there's truth to it. And it made me laugh. I can't compare Ravenwatch (Xbox NA,) to GH because GH is just too unplayable so I never go there. But I do get my transmutes from BR these days, and the difference in average player skill between that and Ravenwatch is staggering.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yeah it really is a shame. When PVP is working well, it really is wonderful in this game. Sure, there are always some cheesy builds out there and balance will never be perfect as long as players have build choices to make, but its so much fun when performance is not an issue.

Unfortunately, performance on the main campaign hasn't been good in 6-7 years, and that is being generous. It is often better in the non CP campaign, and BGs usually run really well.

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

You are right ESO PVP isn't fair. It will never be. It isn't about pure skill. It's about some skill and the sets doing most of the work. This is FACT. Anyone telling you otherwise don't know any better. I've played eso PVP for years now. I retired after I kept realizing I was running in the same logical loop when I lost. I took pvp as far as I could with the average sets. No amount of skill will ever get the drop on someone with decent skills and the brand new sets. This game isn't competative.

10 years of skill with average sets won't beat a person with some months of skills and the top sets...no...10 years of skill and the top sets from 3 years ago won't as well....

This is how the game works. Just accept it and when you die, move on. ESO is NOT a pvp game. It was at one point but it became something else.... Asking ZoS to change their game this deep into it won't work. I've tried warning them since 2017 that this practice was not competitive...well unless one has the larger wallet. Then this made ZoS double...triple...quadruple down on their practices. I go into games to leave that. It's why I now only play PVE story mode. Since I PVPed most of my time on ESO I never did the PVE content. [snip]

NOT Fact. Some of the best 1vXers out there use stat based sets. No cheese, no proc, just pure skill. I wont sit her and say that sets don't matter, and sure, some FOTM sets come out way over tuned, but skill matters so much more in this game. An average player in the latest greatest gear will lose to a highly skilled player in stat based gear every darn time.

Holycannoli

ProudMary wrote: »

Believe it or not there was a time when PvP performance was pretty good. Population caps were 4-8x higher per faction then too.

ZOS could make PvP great again if they wanted to.

That was before all these proc sets the server has to keep track of. Get enough people in a large enough fight now with all these sets and calculations going on at once and the server goes boom! and people get disconnected.

You'd think no proc campaign would be the answer but it has two big things working against it: It's not locked so it can easily be used to farm emperor, and the lack of procs + the confusion about which work and which don't in the campaign means people can't use the gear and builds they love.

Redguards_Revenge

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Yeah it really is a shame. When PVP is working well, it really is wonderful in this game. Sure, there are always some cheesy builds out there and balance will never be perfect as long as players have build choices to make, but its so much fun when performance is not an issue.

Unfortunately, performance on the main campaign hasn't been good in 6-7 years, and that is being generous. It is often better in the non CP campaign, and BGs usually run really well.

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

You are right ESO PVP isn't fair. It will never be. It isn't about pure skill. It's about some skill and the sets doing most of the work. This is FACT. Anyone telling you otherwise don't know any better. I've played eso PVP for years now. I retired after I kept realizing I was running in the same logical loop when I lost. I took pvp as far as I could with the average sets. No amount of skill will ever get the drop on someone with decent skills and the brand new sets. This game isn't competative.

10 years of skill with average sets won't beat a person with some months of skills and the top sets...no...10 years of skill and the top sets from 3 years ago won't as well....

This is how the game works. Just accept it and when you die, move on. ESO is NOT a pvp game. It was at one point but it became something else.... Asking ZoS to change their game this deep into it won't work. I've tried warning them since 2017 that this practice was not competitive...well unless one has the larger wallet. Then this made ZoS double...triple...quadruple down on their practices. I go into games to leave that. It's why I now only play PVE story mode. Since I PVPed most of my time on ESO I never did the PVE content. [snip]

NOT Fact. Some of the best 1vXers out there use stat based sets. No cheese, no proc, just pure skill. I wont sit her and say that sets don't matter, and sure, some FOTM sets come out way over tuned, but skill matters so much more in this game. An average player in the latest greatest gear will lose to a highly skilled player in stat based gear every darn time.

That is so far from the truth. I want you to tell me this stat based gear build.

Make sure not to include any sets from the past 3 years, or any Mythics. I'd like to hear this.

Oakensoul...Sithis... is cheese....

Four_Fingers

You can still rock Hunding's/Spriggan's/Bloodspawn if you are good at picking your fights.

Brrrofski

mocap wrote: »

People wonder why everyone complain so much, yet everyone keep playing CP campaign so much. Am I the only one who sees a contradiction here?

Well some platforms don't have players for a decent no-cp campaign. I don't even think any platform does anymore.

The no proc rules are too much as well. Procs aren't really an issue anymore either really, apart from maras and dark convergence, so the campaign is quite redundant.

So nobody wants to play it.

Dojohoda

Mess is a pretty good term for it unless you play on CP PC NA, then it's pretty good as long as you don't mind the infamous disruptive proc set. You all know the one.

disintegr8

Holycannoli wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Try non CP campaign then. No proc sets, no lags, no bombers, no immortal ballgroups, no volendrung.
Almost paradise )

and no population. Maybe it's different on other servers but on PC-NA noone plays it. It's for porting from IC and maybe doing some easy PvE like shard collecting.

30 day non-cp campaign on PS4 NA had a total list of around 700 toons last campaign, some of them are people playing multiple characters. The map is dominated by a handful of players from each faction who pretty much rotate ownership of the map on a semi regular basis.

The idea of PVP is to play against other players, not get on when the other faction gets off and take the map practically unopposed. Rinse and repeat every day. Boring.

Jaraal

The most annoying part of the unaddressed stuck in combat bug is that not even death is guaranteed to remove it. Respawn at the transitus and still can’t mount, read mail, etc.

It’s crazy how they let this go on for years unresolved.

OtarTheMad

I agree and I am sorry that you experienced that. The lag, which has only really bothered me since Western Skyrim came out, is bad and I agree about the stuck-in combat bug... it's dumb and has been a problem for many years. I agree with a lot of what you said.

I am going to say this though. Why are the other companies empty and the main one, during prime time even locked with a long queue, just over populated? Then we complain for the 10 millionth time that its laggy... we can't be surprised right? I will give ZOS some credit right now, they are trying, they are doing that huge rewrite and have admitted it took too long to find... but as players I think we need to stop running into the wall and being surprised it hurt, ya know?

There is no reason for the main campaign to have a long ass wait... go to other companies. "But I wanna play with my guild/friends" Get your guild/friends to come with you... guilds talk too... maybe one of these weekends some guilds from each side can go to the other campaigns... make them busy and fun. And when it comes to no-cp and all the rules, if people loved PvP as much as they say they'd play there... because PvP is more than just meta sets.

I am not saying this is going to fix things but I love PvP and I've just seen the same thing for years with people just running into that wall... go over the f'n thing and let's go! LoL. ZOS did a portion of their part, they found the fix and are fixing it but it takes time... do they need to do more? Sure. But we do too.

Lebkuchen

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I agree and I am sorry that you experienced that. The lag, which has only really bothered me since Western Skyrim came out, is bad and I agree about the stuck-in combat bug... it's dumb and has been a problem for many years. I agree with a lot of what you said.

I am going to say this though. Why are the other companies empty and the main one, during prime time even locked with a long queue, just over populated? Then we complain for the 10 millionth time that its laggy... we can't be surprised right? I will give ZOS some credit right now, they are trying, they are doing that huge rewrite and have admitted it took too long to find... but as players I think we need to stop running into the wall and being surprised it hurt, ya know?

There is no reason for the main campaign to have a long ass wait... go to other companies. "But I wanna play with my guild/friends" Get your guild/friends to come with you... guilds talk too... maybe one of these weekends some guilds from each side can go to the other campaigns... make them busy and fun. And when it comes to no-cp and all the rules, if people loved PvP as much as they say they'd play there... because PvP is more than just meta sets.

I am not saying this is going to fix things but I love PvP and I've just seen the same thing for years with people just running into that wall... go over the f'n thing and let's go! LoL. ZOS did a portion of their part, they found the fix and are fixing it but it takes time... do they need to do more? Sure. But we do too.

If only this was true.

On Playstation EU for example they screwed up something with a maintenance on 03.August 2022. In the middle of the last PvP event. Gray Host was completely unplayable after that maintenance. Even if there was only 1 of 9 bar players online on the whole map. That's why all the players moved to Blackreach. For a while the performance was better there. But the pvp community on PS EU took a very hard hit because of this. I think last campaign (or this campaign) most remaining players went back to Gray Host again. 6-7 Months later.

The main campaign on some other platforms has a queue on primetime, because people want to play with and against each other on primetime. Like in every other game. The queue is "long" because there are not many players allowed to go to Cyrodiil at the same time anymore. During pvp events people would go to the other campaigns while they were waiting for a spot in the main campaign, but i guess most people don't do that now because it's too boring and empty there. And even if the campaign is empty, that doesn't mean the performance is good. Especially on weekends there is something very wrong with the whole game. Even in PVE.

I can see in your signature that you are playing on PC NA. So you are one of the lucky ones. I kind of understand how you could think ZOS deserves at least "some credit right now" because "they are trying..." and "ZOS did a portion of their part, they found the fix and are fixing it but it takes time..." But i don't believe that. All they did was accidentally improve the performance on PC NA for a while, because they exchanged some way too old tech. A year later they still did nothing for PC EU, PS NA, PS EU, Xbox NA and Xbox EU. Nobody knows if new servers will help. Nobody knows what this "rewrite" project will do. Saying that "they found the fix" is very optimistic. Yes they are always "working on it", because that's their job, but as a player you don't really see a lot of progress.

They have always been very slow with bugfixes. After so many years most of us still struggle with unacceptable performance issues when we want to play. There are countless complaints about the way this company is communicating with their customers. The list goes on and on and on... I am sure the people working at ZOS do what they can, and i am thankful that we can still play this game. But at the same time i am pretty sure everyone would agree that this game deserves better. They really should invest more resources back into this game. Hire more people, get better hardware and software and do whatever it takes to make this game work. They say they want to do it, but they don't do it, and they don't really tell us why.

If we as a playerbase could help, i am sure most of us would do it. [snip]

[Edited for Baiting]

CameraBeardThePirate

Vulkunne wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

So campaign WITHOUT all that problems described in 0 post isn't populated and campaign WITH all that problems heavy populated.

Does anyone, please, can explain me, how this can even possible?

lol I don't understand it either.

It's very simple. CP stinks, but the set restrictions in the No-CP campaign are far too limiting.

Holycannoli

disintegr8 wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Try non CP campaign then. No proc sets, no lags, no bombers, no immortal ballgroups, no volendrung.
Almost paradise )

and no population. Maybe it's different on other servers but on PC-NA noone plays it. It's for porting from IC and maybe doing some easy PvE like shard collecting.

30 day non-cp campaign on PS4 NA had a total list of around 700 toons last campaign, some of them are people playing multiple characters. The map is dominated by a handful of players from each faction who pretty much rotate ownership of the map on a semi regular basis.

The idea of PVP is to play against other players, not get on when the other faction gets off and take the map practically unopposed. Rinse and repeat every day. Boring.

It's for emp and AP farming. I forgot to say that too. The unlocked campaigns are used to trade emperor achievement and farm AP.

Locked campaign is my #1 requirement when choosing a campaign, and guess how many locked campaigns there are lol.