Why do I have to wait three more months for the Necromancer update?

Melzo

I have been writing about the problems of the necromancer for six months now. in response, the developers weakened the necromancer a second time. The last nerf completely destroys the class in pvp. Why are you doing this nonsense?? Why are you so disgusting about the necromancer or just about all classes??? It's a basic item in an MMO, but you destroy it.

Bushido2513

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

Auldwulfe

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I hear that oakensoul, sergeant's mail, storm master, and heavy attacks from a lightning staff work well......
About the only thing left that does for necros, or sorcerers......

Auldwulfe

Bushido2513

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I hear that oakensoul, sergeant's mail, storm master, and heavy attacks from a lightning staff work well......
About the only thing left that does for necros, or sorcerers......

Auldwulfe

Just depends on if you're talking best in slot or having fun. If you want best in slot then no necro won't be that and that's just the state of the game. If someone just enjoys playing necro than I can think of a few fun/fairly competitive playstyles that would still work in pve and pvp.

NordSwordnBoard

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I'm using necro as non bomber on one build and I rely on proc sets and skills mostly from outside the class. I've tried all sorts of builds with necro, implying that removing syngery builds will help us think out of the box is absurd. Having a struggling class lose an entire group role/playstyle after the uniqueness of major vulnerability is already gone is already rough.

Necro likely mothballed until after Arcanist settles in.

Auldwulfe

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I hear that oakensoul, sergeant's mail, storm master, and heavy attacks from a lightning staff work well......
About the only thing left that does for necros, or sorcerers......

Auldwulfe

Just depends on if you're talking best in slot or having fun. If you want best in slot then no necro won't be that and that's just the state of the game. If someone just enjoys playing necro than I can think of a few fun/fairly competitive playstyles that would still work in pve and pvp.

I aim for fun .... but a lot of groups are refusing sorcs and necros in upper level stuff ..... and there is only so many times you can redo delves and certain dungeons before it gets repetative.

Auldwulfe

Bushido2513

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I hear that oakensoul, sergeant's mail, storm master, and heavy attacks from a lightning staff work well......
About the only thing left that does for necros, or sorcerers......

Auldwulfe

Just depends on if you're talking best in slot or having fun. If you want best in slot then no necro won't be that and that's just the state of the game. If someone just enjoys playing necro than I can think of a few fun/fairly competitive playstyles that would still work in pve and pvp.

I aim for fun .... but a lot of groups are refusing sorcs and necros in upper level stuff ..... and there is only so many times you can redo delves and certain dungeons before it gets repetative.

Auldwulfe

Yeah you just hit the nail on the head. When you're trying to have fun you can't run with groups who are about numbers because fun for them is something different. That's when you're getting into making or joining the right guild.

There was a time when I forgot that the game was just a game and it even came between me and friends. I had to come back around and realize there's different ways and reasons people play this game. It's just better if you find people that play the game for the same reason you do.

katorga

Yes, at least three months, and hope you do not get the dreaded ZOS response that Templars and Sorcs received.

Endgame pve = DK and whatever class is most optimal healer at this time
PVP = DK, NB, maybe warden

Everyone else gets overland pve, tales of tribute, housing and outfit system.

No idea where Arcanist will end up.

KingLewie_III

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I'm using necro as non bomber on one build and I rely on proc sets and skills mostly from outside the class. I've tried all sorts of builds with necro, implying that removing syngery builds will help us think out of the box is absurd. Having a struggling class lose an entire group role/playstyle after the uniqueness of major vulnerability is already gone is already rough.

Same here. The only thing semi-viable is Way of the Fire with Masters Dual Wield and Vate Ice staff. The class just doesnt have the burst it needs to secure kills without Harmony Graverobbers. And if you stack enough weapon damage to actually be able to burst someone, you're forced to sacrifice the majority of your sustain and survivability. And even then, you're likely not taking down a Warden, DK, or even a Templar that knows what they're doing. The templar wont kill you either, but it'll survive.

I just started playing more Nightblade and Warden.

Jaimeh

katorga wrote: »

Yes, at least three months, and hope you do not get the dreaded ZOS response that Templars and Sorcs received.

Endgame pve = DK and whatever class is most optimal healer at this time

Yes, and if you check logs DK is already dominating in PvE, this data is also available to the devs, not to mention they have been brought up here in the forums multiple times as well, so I don't know what's the reasoning behind their 'vision' for DK... Class variety for optimized end-gaming was never this narrow, basically now if you want to bring a different class, you have to be a healer.

phantasmalD

Jaimeh wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Yes, at least three months, and hope you do not get the dreaded ZOS response that Templars and Sorcs received.

Endgame pve = DK and whatever class is most optimal healer at this time

Yes, and if you check logs DK is already dominating in PvE, this data is also available to the devs, not to mention they have been brought up here in the forums multiple times as well, so I don't know what's the reasoning behind their 'vision' for DK... Class variety for optimized end-gaming was never this narrow, basically now if you want to bring a different class, you have to be a healer.

Kyne's Aegis's Vet hard mode, barely half a year ago.
53/100 Necros.

Dreadsail Reef, same patch.
59/100 Necros.

Class variety for optimized end-gaming was never this narrow, basically now if you want to bring a different class, you have to be a healer.

What nonsense, the game literally launched with a tank = DK, healer = templar, DPS = sorc, nb meta.

DKs waited for years to be considered a valid dps pick, for a long time the only DK you could find in organized group was the main tank.

Bushido2513

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Yes this is the end of a pvp playstyle for necro but I doubt it will be the end of pvp for necro. If I had to guess I see players thinking of new builds to still make playing necro viable. Besides while I certainly don't speak for everyone I will say I was a bit over the necro one trick pony. I look forward to people being pushed to possibly work up builds we hadn't bothered to entertain before.

I'm using necro as non bomber on one build and I rely on proc sets and skills mostly from outside the class. I've tried all sorts of builds with necro, implying that removing syngery builds will help us think out of the box is absurd. Having a struggling class lose an entire group role/playstyle after the uniqueness of major vulnerability is already gone is already rough.

Necro likely mothballed until after Arcanist settles in.

As I've said before if you're paying for just diversity and fun then you're good. If you want to hit as hard as possible then no this won't be for you. I can think of at least two builds that still get kills and are fun but no they wouldn't be described as competitive. But at this point I play for just fun because I accept that ZOS isn't exactly pushing competitive as a goal. If you want competitive balanced pvp you're currently playing the wrong game sadly.

Bushido2513

KingLewie_III wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I'm using necro as non bomber on one build and I rely on proc sets and skills mostly from outside the class. I've tried all sorts of builds with necro, implying that removing syngery builds will help us think out of the box is absurd. Having a struggling class lose an entire group role/playstyle after the uniqueness of major vulnerability is already gone is already rough.

Same here. The only thing semi-viable is Way of the Fire with Masters Dual Wield and Vate Ice staff. The class just doesnt have the burst it needs to secure kills without Harmony Graverobbers. And if you stack enough weapon damage to actually be able to burst someone, you're forced to sacrifice the majority of your sustain and survivability. And even then, you're likely not taking down a Warden, DK, or even a Templar that knows what they're doing. The templar wont kill you either, but it'll survive.

I just started playing more Nightblade and Warden.

To be fair you're talking about fighting some of the strongest classes in the game right now. Those are hard fights for anyone really. I think you can still have fun and get kills but admittedly it won't be with the same KD ratio as the combo you mentioned.

Stx

phantasmalD wrote: »

Jaimeh wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Yes, at least three months, and hope you do not get the dreaded ZOS response that Templars and Sorcs received.

Endgame pve = DK and whatever class is most optimal healer at this time

Yes, and if you check logs DK is already dominating in PvE, this data is also available to the devs, not to mention they have been brought up here in the forums multiple times as well, so I don't know what's the reasoning behind their 'vision' for DK... Class variety for optimized end-gaming was never this narrow, basically now if you want to bring a different class, you have to be a healer.

Kyne's Aegis's Vet hard mode, barely half a year ago.
53/100 Necros.

Dreadsail Reef, same patch.
59/100 Necros.

Class variety for optimized end-gaming was never this narrow, basically now if you want to bring a different class, you have to be a healer.

What nonsense, the game literally launched with a tank = DK, healer = templar, DPS = sorc, nb meta.

DKs waited for years to be considered a valid dps pick, for a long time the only DK you could find in organized group was the main tank.

With how drastic the combat changes are in this game, half a year ago isn’t even relevant to current day. As sets get added, that changes things too. Like major vulnerability from sets.

DKs have been meta dps for as long as I can remember, even if they don’t have top tier dps which they often do, they bring unmatched utility. Stagger, minor brutality, group major brutality, fire breath, and high damage synergies like from talons and shackles which are actually good abilities to slot themselves unlike some other classes that have good synergies attached to poor abilities. Even if they for some reason aren’t brought for a dps slot, they make excellent tanks.

Maybe some of this unique group utility could be given to other classes?

phantasmalD

Even if they for some reason aren’t brought for a dps slot, they make excellent tanks.

That's pretty much what happened every time ZoS added a unique utility to DKs. "The tank will run it.

Even to this day poop rock is considered a tank responsibility.

I kind of agree with ZoS that unique group utilities hurt class diversity. Because sure, each class having some unique buffs would mean that an optimal team would have to run all of them, and therefore LOOK diverse, but it would also mean that that would be the only valid team comp.

If you love to play sorc but your raid team already has 2 sorcs, then you'd either be forced to switched to a class you potentially hate, or be dumped completely.

Well, I guess that's already how things are going currently. In some ways it would be the exact same situation, only that the leaderboards would be a lot more colourful. Forced diversity.

"LFM vCR+1 2 SORCS, 1 TEMPLAR, 1 WARDEN"

Having to take at least one of every class =/= perfectly balanced classes.

Jaimeh

phantasmalD wrote: »

DKs waited for years to be considered a valid dps pick, for a long time the only DK you could find in organized group was the main tank.

DKs have been OP for a very long time, the tank-only days are years ago. Even so, it doesn't justify how far ahead they are of every other class right now, and to be clear: I wants other classes to be brought on par, I don't see why we can't have both things.

SkaraMinoc

You might be waiting significantly longer than 3 months for any meaningful Necromancer buffs.

KingLewie_III

Bushido2513 wrote: »

KingLewie_III wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I'm using necro as non bomber on one build and I rely on proc sets and skills mostly from outside the class. I've tried all sorts of builds with necro, implying that removing syngery builds will help us think out of the box is absurd. Having a struggling class lose an entire group role/playstyle after the uniqueness of major vulnerability is already gone is already rough.

Same here. The only thing semi-viable is Way of the Fire with Masters Dual Wield and Vate Ice staff. The class just doesnt have the burst it needs to secure kills without Harmony Graverobbers. And if you stack enough weapon damage to actually be able to burst someone, you're forced to sacrifice the majority of your sustain and survivability. And even then, you're likely not taking down a Warden, DK, or even a Templar that knows what they're doing. The templar wont kill you either, but it'll survive.

I just started playing more Nightblade and Warden.

To be fair you're talking about fighting some of the strongest classes in the game right now. Those are hard fights for anyone really. I think you can still have fun and get kills but admittedly it won't be with the same KD ratio as the combo you mentioned.

There shouldn't be as big of a power gap in PVP between classes as there is right now with DK, Warden, and NB vs the other 3 classes. And to add on top of that, the only "buff" any of the bottom 3 classes received was the marginal buff to Hardened Ward for Sorc, which still doesn't close the gap. There is nothing a Necro, Sorc, or Templar does better than a NB, DK, or Warden in a PVP environment. There will always be a "best class", but half the classes available should not be significantly behind the other three.

KingLewie_III

phantasmalD wrote: »

Even if they for some reason aren’t brought for a dps slot, they make excellent tanks.

That's pretty much what happened every time ZoS added a unique utility to DKs. "The tank will run it.

Even to this day poop rock is considered a tank responsibility.

I kind of agree with ZoS that unique group utilities hurt class diversity. Because sure, each class having some unique buffs would mean that an optimal team would have to run all of them, and therefore LOOK diverse, but it would also mean that that would be the only valid team comp.

If you love to play sorc but your raid team already has 2 sorcs, then you'd either be forced to switched to a class you potentially hate, or be dumped completely.

Well, I guess that's already how things are going currently. In some ways it would be the exact same situation, only that the leaderboards would be a lot more colourful. Forced diversity.

"LFM vCR+1 2 SORCS, 1 TEMPLAR, 1 WARDEN"

Having to take at least one of every class =/= perfectly balanced classes.

Giving each class a unique buff sure beats the current meta of running 9/12 as a DK.