The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.
This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.
One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.
Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
Necrotech_Master wrote: »why the range of 22 meters for the base skill and the execute? standard ranged attacks should be 28 meters, the pull is probably OK at 22 meters since i think thats what the other pulls are
Necrotech_Master wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.
This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.
One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.
Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)
and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june
GusTheWizard wrote: »This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.
Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.
Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.
With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.
This skill would function like other pull abilities.
Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.
i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.
GusTheWizard wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.
i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.
Yes but both morphs are bad and it not unheard of for zos to completely change the function and look of a skill. here’s just a few that they’ve changed, Radiant Destruction and it’s morph were a stun, Malevolent Offering and it’s morphs were also a stun, Bound Armaments and Arctic blast was at one point a projectile which I know they still have the animation for in their logs, which they could use for the execute morph.
It, I'm a fan of this skill, the unique ground based pull is fantastic in group content as a tank to pull targets while others are in the way, or pre-emptively pulling things. It always urks me when people suggest completely gutting a skill just because they don't care for it, use it, or understand it, so I agree with Nightingale's point about making one morph basically into a mine, so it at least remains as it is.
The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.
This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.
One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.
Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)
and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june
Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.
This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.
One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.
Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)
and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june
Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.
i'd honestly say that there's not enough players on that hill to justify keeping it around. its an awkward synergy that can do completely the opposite of what you want, forcibly reposition you. the synergy is cool in theory, but i think it'd be far better placed on arcanist's gate and completely removed from warden's kit for the morph to be reworked. as is, no-one uses this morph except for meming in cyrodiil or in towns. most people i've seen don't even know that this synergy exists and are completely fascinated with it when it's spammed in towns. you'll have entire groups of people using the synergy in towns, but you'll never see it in dungeons or trials.
The_Titan_Tim wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »Necrotech_Master wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.
This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.
One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.
Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)
and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june
Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.
i'd honestly say that there's not enough players on that hill to justify keeping it around. its an awkward synergy that can do completely the opposite of what you want, forcibly reposition you. the synergy is cool in theory, but i think it'd be far better placed on arcanist's gate and completely removed from warden's kit for the morph to be reworked. as is, no-one uses this morph except for meming in cyrodiil or in towns. most people i've seen don't even know that this synergy exists and are completely fascinated with it when it's spammed in towns. you'll have entire groups of people using the synergy in towns, but you'll never see it in dungeons or trials.
Right, I agree that the ability is useless and would like to see it adjusted in one fashion or another, and hopefully you’re right, I just know from experience that even the greatest changes receive pushback, especially on these forums.
The_Titan_Tim wrote: »They could make it teleport any targets within the area of the trap, that would be an interesting take.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »The_Titan_Tim wrote: »They could make it teleport any targets within the area of the trap, that would be an interesting take.
That'd be amazing dungeon utility. Changing the retreat morph to be an execute trap would be pretty nice, it'd make device far stronger as a pull option as well as giving wardens a unique and strong execute from their class tree to pick from as a tank or dps respectively. Both morphs would have reason to be picked.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »GusTheWizard wrote: »This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.
Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.
Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.
With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.
This skill would function like other pull abilities.
Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.
I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.
i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.
Necrotech_Master wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »GusTheWizard wrote: »This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.
Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.
Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.
With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.
This skill would function like other pull abilities.
Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.
I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.
i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.
the biggest issue i see with adding dot or execute to it, is that the frozen gate currently does not work at all on targets that are immune to pulls
so you cant even use the major maim debuff on say a boss because it will never trigger on them as it only applies after it is ported, but if its immune to ports then it never fires period
so the skill would need a rework either way
I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.
no-one realistically uses the morph enough for it to matter if it's been kept or not. i think it would cause problems if they gave the synergy to frozen device because it's the only synergy in the game that can negatively effect the user if accidentally pressed since it forcably repositions you meaning that it has to be used carefully. but if that's a compromise that makes the most people happy, then that's fine. there's no need for 2 tank morphs, i don't see the issue with having a dps morph and a tank morph. claiming that we will soon not have warden in warden makes literally no sense. when you make both morphs for tanking, that just means 1 morph isn't going to be used. it's common sense. this just seems like you don't want anything to change out of spite for frost damage dealing.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.
no-one realistically uses the morph enough for it to matter if it's been kept or not. i think it would cause problems if they gave the synergy to frozen device because it's the only synergy in the game that can negatively effect the user if accidentally pressed since it forcably repositions you meaning that it has to be used carefully. but if that's a compromise that makes the most people happy, then that's fine. there's no need for 2 tank morphs, i don't see the issue with having a dps morph and a tank morph. claiming that we will soon not have warden in warden makes literally no sense. when you make both morphs for tanking, that just means 1 morph isn't going to be used. it's common sense. this just seems like you don't want anything to change out of spite for frost damage dealing.
I don't think a damage-only ability is suitable for a branch that focuses on weakening the enemy and defending. Lately, dps have been very worried about the idea of taking ice items from tanks and I don't like it. Developers need to dance with two roles, which has a lot of limitations I think, so I think it's worth considering tanks first, then other roles when we touch this branch.
Moreover, the idea of saving an ally should be considered for saving in the first place. Just because it doesn't work in the current ability doesn't make it a bad idea. And no, I don't want to use creepers from green balance for this, because it can get ability synergy, and warden doesn't have dash abilities other than that. (and weapons, but you can't attack your ally with that)
And I don't think people will be happy with that. Either it will be a useless thing, or just a feature for some builds, and therefore a dead morph for most. I don't think the devs will give dps a strong thing because warden already has some hatred in pvp.