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Let’s discuss a Frozen Gate change

GusTheWizard
GusTheWizard
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This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.

hk61xaun3u9q.png

Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.

gna8za9liaac.png

Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.

With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.

This skill would function like other pull abilities.

j8vhwz45ucd2.png

Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.
Edited by GusTheWizard on February 10, 2023 11:02PM
  • GusTheWizard
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    I drew the pictures, so please don’t judge them too hard :blush:
    Edited by GusTheWizard on February 10, 2023 9:15PM
  • Necrotech_Master
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    why the range of 22 meters for the base skill and the execute? standard ranged attacks should be 28 meters, the pull is probably OK at 22 meters since i think thats what the other pulls are

    i think it would be an interesting idea though giving the warden some kind of direct frost dmg though as too much of the frost tree is defense oriented

    i can understand ice staves themselves and the destro ice variants to be more defense oriented, but the class skills can be more offense oriented
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • The_Titan_Tim
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.
  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.

    i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)

    and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • GusTheWizard
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    why the range of 22 meters for the base skill and the execute? standard ranged attacks should be 28 meters, the pull is probably OK at 22 meters since i think thats what the other pulls are

    I guess that’s true I’ll edit it.
    Edited by GusTheWizard on February 10, 2023 11:00PM
  • The_Titan_Tim
    The_Titan_Tim
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.

    i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)

    and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june

    Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.

    hk61xaun3u9q.png

    Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.

    gna8za9liaac.png

    Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
    Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.

    With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.

    This skill would function like other pull abilities.

    j8vhwz45ucd2.png

    Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.

    I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.

    i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 11, 2023 12:10PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • GusTheWizard
    GusTheWizard
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    I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.

    i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.

    Yes but both morphs are bad and it not unheard of for zos to completely change the function and look of a skill. here’s just a few that they’ve changed, Radiant Destruction and it’s morph were a stun, Malevolent Offering and it’s morphs were also a stun, Bound Armaments and Arctic blast was at one point a projectile which I know they still have the animation for in their logs, which they could use for the execute morph.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.

    i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.

    Yes but both morphs are bad and it not unheard of for zos to completely change the function and look of a skill. here’s just a few that they’ve changed, Radiant Destruction and it’s morph were a stun, Malevolent Offering and it’s morphs were also a stun, Bound Armaments and Arctic blast was at one point a projectile which I know they still have the animation for in their logs, which they could use for the execute morph.

    frozen gate is used by high end players but i know many that prefer to instead use silver leash. i think that's fine. if the skill is used and has some specific use cases like it does, i think that it's fine to keep at least the base skill and 1 of the morphs intact. however, changing 1 morph is totally fine.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • CP5
    CP5
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    It, I'm a fan of this skill, the unique ground based pull is fantastic in group content as a tank to pull targets while others are in the way, or pre-emptively pulling things. It always urks me when people suggest completely gutting a skill just because they don't care for it, use it, or understand it, so I agree with Nightingale's point about making one morph basically into a mine, so it at least remains as it is.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    CP5 wrote: »
    It, I'm a fan of this skill, the unique ground based pull is fantastic in group content as a tank to pull targets while others are in the way, or pre-emptively pulling things. It always urks me when people suggest completely gutting a skill just because they don't care for it, use it, or understand it, so I agree with Nightingale's point about making one morph basically into a mine, so it at least remains as it is.

    Right. That way, both players can get what they want with minimal compromise for both parties. That's what is so great about the morph system. But i feel like certain skills, especially frozen retreat/device really aren't able to make the most of it.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 13, 2023 11:52AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.

    i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)

    and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june

    Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.

    i'd honestly say that there's not enough players on that hill to justify keeping it around. its an awkward synergy that can do completely the opposite of what you want, forcibly reposition you. the synergy is cool in theory, but i think it'd be far better placed on arcanist's gate and completely removed from warden's kit for the morph to be reworked. as is, no-one uses this morph except for meming in cyrodiil or in towns. most people i've seen don't even know that this synergy exists and are completely fascinated with it when it's spammed in towns. you'll have entire groups of people using the synergy in towns, but you'll never see it in dungeons or trials.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • The_Titan_Tim
    The_Titan_Tim
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.

    i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)

    and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june

    Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.

    i'd honestly say that there's not enough players on that hill to justify keeping it around. its an awkward synergy that can do completely the opposite of what you want, forcibly reposition you. the synergy is cool in theory, but i think it'd be far better placed on arcanist's gate and completely removed from warden's kit for the morph to be reworked. as is, no-one uses this morph except for meming in cyrodiil or in towns. most people i've seen don't even know that this synergy exists and are completely fascinated with it when it's spammed in towns. you'll have entire groups of people using the synergy in towns, but you'll never see it in dungeons or trials.

    Right, I agree that the ability is useless and would like to see it adjusted in one fashion or another, and hopefully you’re right, I just know from experience that even the greatest changes receive pushback, especially on these forums.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    I love the idea, the artwork for the pull could look like a frozen harpoon.

    This would solve the problem the class has with it’s unreliable pull, while introducing a solution to ESO’s lack of a ice spammable outside of the very niche interaction of Frost Reach and the Master’s Ice Staff.

    One concern I could see being brought up, is that the ability that allows friendly players to synergy it to teleport to the caster that is wholly unique to Warden would be removed, it would need to be relocated.

    Maybe they could replace the Cliffracers? People have been asking for a less region locked appearance to the Warden pets for quite some time, and this change could definitely be it.

    i dont know how useful that ability was, i hardly see anyone running this skill to begin with (the only ones ive ever really seen run this are trolls in cyro sitting on spots of the bridge, or occasionally in IC because they can yoink people down from the safe areas if they get the trap up there)

    and we will have a form of group transport with the arcanist in june

    Right, I don’t believe it’s that useful as there are gap-closers in the game and the friendly pull is completely useless in the current PvE, but you will have some players die on the hill for it.

    i'd honestly say that there's not enough players on that hill to justify keeping it around. its an awkward synergy that can do completely the opposite of what you want, forcibly reposition you. the synergy is cool in theory, but i think it'd be far better placed on arcanist's gate and completely removed from warden's kit for the morph to be reworked. as is, no-one uses this morph except for meming in cyrodiil or in towns. most people i've seen don't even know that this synergy exists and are completely fascinated with it when it's spammed in towns. you'll have entire groups of people using the synergy in towns, but you'll never see it in dungeons or trials.

    Right, I agree that the ability is useless and would like to see it adjusted in one fashion or another, and hopefully you’re right, I just know from experience that even the greatest changes receive pushback, especially on these forums.

    all you can do is address those concerns realistically. sometimes some people use it on their really niche builds for overland content, or theme builds for dungeons and they'll be upset when it's removed. at the end of the day, if the change is more positive to more people, it'll be worth it and that's what a change to frozen retreat would be.
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Mr_Stach
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    I think one of the largest hurdles with Frozen Gate/Device is giving something new while not taking away a good tool. I generally dislike Frozen Device and morphs and would rather use anything else in every situation. But there are people who like it.

    Largest issue for me are as follows:
    1. It's an AoE Trap that teleports to you, fine. But in a large gaggle of enemies you can't single out a Hight Value Target with it, so it's less useful.
    2. The Synergy of friends teleporting is niche at best and could easily be added the the regular morph for allies to port to you, opening up a new DPS Morph, oooooh.

    For me if Zos wanted to just rework some aspects it could work better in my opinion.
    - Instead of the large AoE, make it a Single target trap that teleports to you.
    - when the target is teleported it leaves a Rune that can be synergized by allies to do a burst of Frost Damage and teleport to you.
    - for the other morph, still wanting to utilize the "Frozen Portal" aspect, maybe teleporting to the location with a big Frozen Explosion or something, or ice spikes teleports to the location doing execute damage.

    You could do some cool things with the portal aspect, but I bet those won't probably happen with Arcanist having a portal thing soon
    Altoholic, Frost Warden Sympathizer and Main

    Glacial Guardian - Main - Frost Warden Zealot
    The Frost Man Cometh - PC Frost Backup
  • The_Titan_Tim
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    They could make it teleport any targets within the area of the trap, that would be an interesting take.
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    They could make it teleport any targets within the area of the trap, that would be an interesting take.

    That'd be amazing dungeon utility. Changing the retreat morph to be an execute trap would be pretty nice, it'd make device far stronger as a pull option as well as giving wardens a unique and strong execute from their class tree to pick from as a tank or dps respectively. Both morphs would have reason to be picked.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 14, 2023 5:34AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • The_Titan_Tim
    The_Titan_Tim
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    They could make it teleport any targets within the area of the trap, that would be an interesting take.

    That'd be amazing dungeon utility. Changing the retreat morph to be an execute trap would be pretty nice, it'd make device far stronger as a pull option as well as giving wardens a unique and strong execute from their class tree to pick from as a tank or dps respectively. Both morphs would have reason to be picked.

    Right, if Rushing Agony and Dark Convergence can pull in multiple targets, there’s little reason why we haven’t received an ability that can, and it would be fitting on a class like Warden, or perhaps something akin to an AoE taunt?

    In traditional fantasy, Wardens are defenders, yet for some reason, they are not even top two for tanking right now, I would like to see this changed, and that could be achieved by giving the class a unique tool for them in regards to the role.
  • Necrotech_Master
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    This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.

    hk61xaun3u9q.png

    Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.

    gna8za9liaac.png

    Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
    Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.

    With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.

    This skill would function like other pull abilities.

    j8vhwz45ucd2.png

    Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.

    I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.

    i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.

    the biggest issue i see with adding dot or execute to it, is that the frozen gate currently does not work at all on targets that are immune to pulls

    so you cant even use the major maim debuff on say a boss because it will never trigger on them as it only applies after it is ported, but if its immune to ports then it never fires period

    so the skill would need a rework either way
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014

    i have my main house (grand topal hideaway) listed in the housing tours, it has multiple target dummies, scribing altar, and grandmaster stations (in progress being filled out), as well as almost every antiquity furnishing on display to preview them

    feel free to stop by and use the facilities
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    This skill is clunky and buggy, I’ve found if I have three gates out it will replace the most recent gate that was placed rather than the first gate but that’s not always the case and it’s a pretty annoying skill to use for pulling adds and I often find myself using silver leash over this skill, here’s my suggestion.

    hk61xaun3u9q.png

    Base skill (Frozen Bolt)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage.

    gna8za9liaac.png

    Morph 1 (Frozen Grapple)
    Pull an enemy from up to 22 meters away dealing x frost damage and applying major brittle for 4 seconds.

    With the new iteration of soft taunts I thought it would be cool to give warden tanks a buff dds wouldn’t be able to use and seeing as major maim is already on frost clench it seemed useless to have on this skill as well.

    This skill would function like other pull abilities.

    j8vhwz45ucd2.png

    Morph 2 (Frozen Demise)
    Launch a frozen bolt at your target up to 28 meters away dealing X frost damage, enemies under 50% health take up to 300% more damage from this ability.

    I agree that the skill needs a lot of work and especially that 1 of the wasted morphs should be repurposed for dps. But i think that realistically, if they did, they won't move away from the trap design and would instead remove the synergy from frozen retreat, remove the pull and immobilise, and probably add a DoT.

    i think an execute based trap would be fairly unique as far as traps go.

    the biggest issue i see with adding dot or execute to it, is that the frozen gate currently does not work at all on targets that are immune to pulls

    so you cant even use the major maim debuff on say a boss because it will never trigger on them as it only applies after it is ported, but if its immune to ports then it never fires period

    so the skill would need a rework either way

    That would change with an adjustment to the morph anyway as the condition would no longer be roughly

    If trap is armed + If enemy is in trap + enemy is able to be crowd controlled = execute effect (pull enemy)

    It would just be
    if trap is armed + enemy is in trap = execute effect (damage enemy)

    The same way that sorc, fighters guild and mages guild traps work.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 14, 2023 7:34PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • selig_fay
    selig_fay
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    I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
    I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.
    Edited by selig_fay on February 15, 2023 8:25AM
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    selig_fay wrote: »
    I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
    I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.

    no-one realistically uses the morph enough for it to matter if it's been kept or not. i think it would cause problems if they gave the synergy to frozen device because it's the only synergy in the game that can negatively effect the user if accidentally pressed since it forcably repositions you meaning that it has to be used carefully. but if that's a compromise that makes the most people happy, then that's fine. there's no need for 2 tank morphs, i don't see the issue with having a dps morph and a tank morph. claiming that we will soon not have warden in warden makes literally no sense. when you make both morphs for tanking, that just means 1 morph isn't going to be used. it's common sense. this just seems like you don't want anything to change out of spite for frost damage dealing.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 15, 2023 12:16PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • selig_fay
    selig_fay
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    selig_fay wrote: »
    I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
    I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.

    no-one realistically uses the morph enough for it to matter if it's been kept or not. i think it would cause problems if they gave the synergy to frozen device because it's the only synergy in the game that can negatively effect the user if accidentally pressed since it forcably repositions you meaning that it has to be used carefully. but if that's a compromise that makes the most people happy, then that's fine. there's no need for 2 tank morphs, i don't see the issue with having a dps morph and a tank morph. claiming that we will soon not have warden in warden makes literally no sense. when you make both morphs for tanking, that just means 1 morph isn't going to be used. it's common sense. this just seems like you don't want anything to change out of spite for frost damage dealing.

    I don't think a damage-only ability is suitable for a branch that focuses on weakening the enemy and defending. Lately, dps have been very worried about the idea of taking ice items from tanks and I don't like it. Developers need to dance with two roles, which has a lot of limitations I think, so I think it's worth considering tanks first, then other roles when we touch this branch.
    Moreover, the idea of saving an ally should be considered for saving in the first place. Just because it doesn't work in the current ability doesn't make it a bad idea. And no, I don't want to use creepers from green balance for this, because it can get ability synergy, and warden doesn't have dash abilities other than that. (and weapons, but you can't attack your ally with that)
    And I don't think people will be happy with that. Either it will be a useless thing, or just a feature for some builds, and therefore a dead morph for most. I don't think the devs will give dps a strong thing because warden already has some hatred in pvp.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    selig_fay wrote: »
    selig_fay wrote: »
    I think it's bad, not because it doesn't look effective, but because you give more tool dps at the expense of the tanks ability. I remind you that in the second morph, frost gates can be used to save allies. Yes, it does not work well, but you take the tool and give nothing in return.
    I don't like that people think it's okay for the frost branch to become more DPS oriented. Thus, we will soon not have warden in warden.

    no-one realistically uses the morph enough for it to matter if it's been kept or not. i think it would cause problems if they gave the synergy to frozen device because it's the only synergy in the game that can negatively effect the user if accidentally pressed since it forcably repositions you meaning that it has to be used carefully. but if that's a compromise that makes the most people happy, then that's fine. there's no need for 2 tank morphs, i don't see the issue with having a dps morph and a tank morph. claiming that we will soon not have warden in warden makes literally no sense. when you make both morphs for tanking, that just means 1 morph isn't going to be used. it's common sense. this just seems like you don't want anything to change out of spite for frost damage dealing.

    I don't think a damage-only ability is suitable for a branch that focuses on weakening the enemy and defending. Lately, dps have been very worried about the idea of taking ice items from tanks and I don't like it. Developers need to dance with two roles, which has a lot of limitations I think, so I think it's worth considering tanks first, then other roles when we touch this branch.
    Moreover, the idea of saving an ally should be considered for saving in the first place. Just because it doesn't work in the current ability doesn't make it a bad idea. And no, I don't want to use creepers from green balance for this, because it can get ability synergy, and warden doesn't have dash abilities other than that. (and weapons, but you can't attack your ally with that)
    And I don't think people will be happy with that. Either it will be a useless thing, or just a feature for some builds, and therefore a dead morph for most. I don't think the devs will give dps a strong thing because warden already has some hatred in pvp.

    Tanks have been considered first with this skill already. And it's apparent that having 2 morphs for tanking only results in 1 morph being wasted, they could merge retreat into device, but I'd be weary of a change like that because it would likely create annoying situations, but it would at least allow both roles to only gain something and not lose anything. We're at the point where the tanking/dps morph split on frost skills has given different builds options and it has proven to be healthy, in regards to not giving wardens something strong, trap skills can be very hard to utilize in a lot of situations in pvp due to the arming time, and warden dps in pve is some of the lowest in the game at the moment. frozen retreat is actually a perfect target for any changes, it also doesn't need a full functionality rework like bound armaments or something.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 15, 2023 4:41PM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    lets hope that with the release of the arcanist, that we'll also simultaneously see a rework to frozen retreat to see it offer some large benefit to damage dealers as a damage morph, instead of it just offering a completely niche synergy instead of major maim. if there's one change, or 2 to warden i hope that's on there.
    Edited by ESO_Nightingale on February 17, 2023 3:53AM
    PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
  • Shagreth
    Shagreth
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    I'd give anything for something like Frozen Grapple, Rework Nature's Grasp while at it. @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_GinaBruno I feel that Warden is in need of a rework in general, it's a bit of a mess, and not only thematically wise (that Netch pet for example feels completely out of place aesthetically) effects & animations could also use some work, but I guess the same can be said for most classes, save Arcanist.
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