Damage Meter Addon

ins

Please cater to the least common denominator more. DPS meters are necessary to min/maxing and a competitive pve environment. Also, if you're not pulling your weight in a group, wouldn't you want to know this? This hand holding, anti bully attitude is childish. When analyzed in the proper context, its purely information which can be used to improve the gear, skill slotting choices, and overall play of yourself and others. Thanks for handicapping us all just because someone on the internet possibly could make you feel bad about your button pressing skills, pathetic.

ins

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Assuming your DPS was riding the Threat coat tail (assuming Threat percentage thresholds were being consistently met), then you had the DPS to meet the requirements. So you replaced the DPS meters with a Threat meter where you likely said to people, aim for broke on the meter, so therefor you were a bunch of hypocrits as the threat meter serves the same purpose as a DPS meter.

Just saying, and on that note, how do you know who was using them and who wasn't?

What a person uses or doesn't use is up to them I told them it wasn't allowed so at least that crap was NOT posted in chat nor was anyone ever called out, and high threat doesn't always mean high DPS either, that's a common misconception among inexperienced raiders.

Chalk it up how ever you like, DPS, HPS, eDPS, eHPS, TPS and eTPS all correlate to threat. How it is calculated per point applied is the misconception among inexperienced raiders. Sure, you can pad that meter, but in reality, the way you intended its purpose, was a DPS meter without the numbers.

The epeen value of being top on the meter (minus the tanks) still applies just the same as if it was a number crunching game.

you're not accounting for abilities like vanish, fein deth, feint, ect. or talents that would alter threat levels.

Wreaken

ins wrote: »

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Assuming your DPS was riding the Threat coat tail (assuming Threat percentage thresholds were being consistently met), then you had the DPS to meet the requirements. So you replaced the DPS meters with a Threat meter where you likely said to people, aim for broke on the meter, so therefor you were a bunch of hypocrits as the threat meter serves the same purpose as a DPS meter.

Just saying, and on that note, how do you know who was using them and who wasn't?

What a person uses or doesn't use is up to them I told them it wasn't allowed so at least that crap was NOT posted in chat nor was anyone ever called out, and high threat doesn't always mean high DPS either, that's a common misconception among inexperienced raiders.

Chalk it up how ever you like, DPS, HPS, eDPS, eHPS, TPS and eTPS all correlate to threat. How it is calculated per point applied is the misconception among inexperienced raiders. Sure, you can pad that meter, but in reality, the way you intended its purpose, was a DPS meter without the numbers.

The epeen value of being top on the meter (minus the tanks) still applies just the same as if it was a number crunching game.

you're not accounting for abilities like vanish, fein deth, feint, ect. or talents that would alter threat levels.

Assuming that the game you are playing is coded to do a mem-wipe on execution of one of those skills, sure, but not all games follow a generic cookie cutter template.

scripteaze

group damage meters turns a game into job and I already have one of those. I don't want another game where I have to spend all my free time min maxing and trying to be an "elitist jerk" The crafting system is already a time vampire, lets just leave it at that...

reggielee

for the love of gaming, NO. dps meters have ruined many a game by turning grouping into 'watching whos doing what' instead of just enjoying the dungeon and grouping.

If they do allow dps meters it needs to be private for the user only, but then i can see peeps starting to require posts of users output before being allowed in groups so in essence back to dps meters ruining the game.

so just .. no. if you need to see how ones rotations are doing you can parse against a known mob and see how fast they die and what works best..

ins

scripteaze wrote: »

group damage meters turns a game into job and I already have one of those. I don't want another game where I have to spend all my free time min maxing and trying to be an "elitist jerk" The crafting system is already a time vampire, lets just leave it at that...

some of us try to be good at games, why should we suffer because someone MIGHT hurt your wittle feewings by linking dps meters in chat. Information is power, i like power, why don't you?

kdcsm914b14a_ESO

reggielee wrote: »

for the love of gaming, NO. dps meters have ruined many a game by turning grouping into 'watching whos doing what' instead of just enjoying the dungeon and grouping.

If they do allow dps meters it needs to be private for the user only, but then i can see peeps starting to require posts of users output before being allowed in groups so in essence back to dps meters ruining the game.

so just .. no. if you need to see how ones rotations are doing you can parse against a known mob and see how fast they die and what works best..

I partially agree with you here. While I can understand wanting to know your own numbers and which rotations give you the most bang for your buck. I couldn't stand "Post your achievement/stats for invite". I remember back in the day when you didn't have a recount or parser. What did we do back then? we got together and raided and if someone didn't execute an ability on time be it a interrupt or what have you. we just told said person " Hey man, hit your interrupt at this time." that was it. We used to help fellow gamers. I feel Zen made the right choice so far. If they do allow a recount for a whole party, will it *** me off or will I get mad and not play with people who do use them? Of course not, I love this game. and we do have the ability to /ignore people. or Drop /Kick from a group. I just would like to see a community that would help out a fellow gamer with or without a recount meter. I'm old school and I realize there's a new generation of gamers that like their tools. Which is fine. Just remember to give a hand along with them. Don't use them the wrong way.

Bansheedragon

Fisgael wrote: »

Omarman wrote: »

Something like the recount add-on from WoW would be great.

Oh no, please not! Not recount again! It's nothing but stressfull if you constantly have to watch how much DPS you're doing so the tank doesn't kick you... As soon as an addon like this comes out, people won't care about group atmosphere or how well it works together, they will only watch the numbers of this addon and judge after this... I hope recount never makes it to elder scrolls online!

Sorry but I have an inborn hatred for this kind of addon and am really glad the developers decided against that!

I did Grotto(lowest instance in Ebonheart) yesterday, and I had a blast doing it.
Like you I have seen just how addons like recount can ruin the fun of a game, and stand with you on this statement.

When it becomes about the numbers instead of the experience, then all the fun is gone and it becomes a job instead.
I have a job already, I play games to relieve myself of stress and for the entertainment, not because I need or want another job.

Hiddenbunny

I feel sorry for RL for the later adventure zones, not able to rely on any reporting to figure out what the hell went wrong.

Say whatever you want about recount, at least you can find out why an encounter went awry. Even if you don't use damage meters, disabling reporting make things like world of logs not possible.

Without any information, its unlikely for any raid leader to review an encounter and improve upon it. But this is what ESO is I suppose, a cluster *** for the fights.

Sefrial

I hope they will change this and allow Recount to collect data from other players.
No matter what everyone says it’s not fun to have a bad player in the group that ruins the fun for everyone else.

p.hurst1b16_ESO

Prefer A.C.T.

If I am going to min/max then I want the whole story not some epeen meters.

In any case I always run my own groups and never analyse anyone this early in a game. Might be a different story with competitive PvE later on.

vandefanel

azraels_grave wrote: »

Meters have ultimately made many players in WoW not as good. How so? For example a healer may cast most healing than is needed simply to beat (pad meters) the other healers. There is a difference between effective abilities vs padded abilities. Meters would only deter and do the same to ESO. Which players should focus on being better by how they see themselves performing. Not because they are trying for bragging rights on needless padding.

Hence why Recount had show overhealing, noone gave a damn about your heals if you were most heals with 1000% overhealing.

This game atleast from what ive seen so far doesnt have enrage timers on any content so pushing max dps doesnt matter therefor weeding out who does the least isnt important. The problem is going to come when they put in timer encounters, your going to have groups that may have 85% good players but you will never be able to tell who is carrying and who isnt if you start failing at bosses so at that point then what? Your forcing a mostly good group to completely disband most likely because if someone didnt know his rotation before entering the dungeon I promise you he sure wont figure it out in the confusion of handling mechanics.

jmido8

You people who hate dps meters are selfish. Your argument is that dps-meters are anti-fun for you but you don't mind being anti-fun to other players when you're inadequately ready for a dungeon. I personally hate taking 4x the normal amount of time because of some completely useless teammate. You say you have a job? So do I and I would rather not spend all my time in one dungeon babysitting you.

Vantor

There are always 2 sides on the coin. As @Wreaken‌ previously mentioned, it's not the addon's fault. Personally, I would like to have wow-recount-LIKE addon(would love if it could also trash overheal and overdps) for some friendly guild competition tbh.

drowadin

No group dmg thx

Mddnick

Seeing other dps do more damage than me while still avoiding standing in red circles is what made me a better player. Half the time when I whisper them they are more than happy to help, because its also a compliment to them.

That said, I've also seen SO MANY JERKS use this kind of program. Maybe allow the addon to only track others who have it installed? I would like to see the dps my guild is doing so that we can help players who want to improve. And if you're nervous about your damage, or lack thereof, and don't want advice to improve, you wouldn't have to install it.

Davngr

Part of the fun for many people is to improve not only their characters gear but how well they play said character. I find other facets of the game meaningless but you won't find me in those threads asking for them to be blocked/removed.

To each his own, if you don't like parsing then don't use it. If a group requires a certain level of performance from you and you're not up to par then why would you, yourself want to be in the group?

Thats like demanding that lvl 40's doing lvl 40 content group with your lvl 15.

Thete

Fisgael wrote: »

Sorry but I have an inborn hatred for this kind of addon and am really glad the developers decided against that!

No, you have a hatred of brainless groups, in which case you shouldn't join them. Just because a tool can be abused in the hands of barely trained chimps, doesn't mean the tool itself is bad.

The lack of information the game gives will make it a haven for lazy or poor players who want to kid themselves that they are good. As such, the forums will constantly be awash with nerf this and nerf that, which will be listened to as we already know from Doshia. It also prevents those of us who wish to improve from doing so because, who can we learn from. I know SWTOR has a bodged way of getting around this, but it isn't real time and so doesn't allow for quick adjustments.

Zeypher

I vote yes to Dps counters, it may be nice have this no pressure approach. But really end game content strives on competition.

Dtowse

I know many will disagree with me but I like the idea that you can't see other party members stats. I think it's a refreshing change from the usual MMO elitism. To be honest, I don't think a damage meter would suit the style of ESO anyway.

azraels_grave

Sefrial wrote: »

I hope they will change this and allow Recount to collect data from other players.
No matter what everyone says it’s not fun to have a bad player in the group that ruins the fun for everyone else.

Sorry to inform but the irony of this post is too massive to ignore. Often players (and even noted in this thread), are those measuring their epeens/elitists. Not the person who lacks the maximization of their rotation. In truth I would rather have a player who is just learning, and maybe not so good. Because they can learn and they can become better. The elitists often times stay jerks. So I'm sorry if I had to pick between the two I'd pick the bad dps over a jerk. Least I can work with a bad dps, and possibly even help them.

I do not need a meter to see if someone is doing the wrong rotation. I do not need a meter to see they often stand in bad. If people would be more self aware over self reliant on a addon. There is far more clarity to being had.

And trust me I'm not one of those tunnel vision healers. I have healed in many games, and I am very aware of what others do, or do not do. As far as numbers I could care less. If you do the right rotation,stay out of bad, and we win .. gg get loot move on.

To that effect I have seen some amazing DPS that just can't stop standing in stupid. While others whom I met on a more average note, avoid everything like they should. So let me refine my thought. If you stand in everything I'm going to get tired of you. No matter how great your DPS is, and what the meter says. No excuse for constant stupid. And trust me being a healer in games since the late 90's. I have seen far more than my share of constant stupid.

azraels_grave

Zeypher wrote: »

I vote yes to Dps counters, it may be nice have this no pressure approach. But really end game content strives on competition.

Actually it strives on working as a team. Even Blizzard has noticed how pad meter happy some people have gotten, especially healers. So they are developing changes to make playability more thought involved. If you fail to play as a team, I'm happy you can't review meters. It has in the years I've raided ended in huge rages and arguments over vent. They start blaming everyone for their lack of x y z. And fail to see it was the ineffectivity of their teamwork that did most of that damage. Meters themselves in a group situation are often abused and misused on a large scale. Only a small fraction use them as they should, and as they were designed. And if they can not be used in this way as a whole by the larger portion of the community, I see no need for their existence otherwise.

l-wilson-1986b16_ESO

This game is about skill and survival as much as damage. Recount brought nothing except abuse to wow and I would be seriously dissapointed to see it here. I have seen many a moron die because they were so focused on that stupid little box counting damage on their screen and would much rather an effective team who dodged the fire than a team who did massive damage but died every fight.

If you want to be the best you can be, get a personal meter and compare skills and itemization on the same collection of mobs and see how it changes. If you need to feel better about yourself by comparing yourself to bob stood next to you then really that isn't a problem with the people against the addon, it's a problem with how you regard yourself as a player.

Vannor

Recount seriously screwed up WoW, it'll do the same for ESO. The very fact that someone in this thread used the phrase 'competitive PvE' and the rest of the comments about bad players shows the mentality of some of the players.

NoirNL

I never understand why some people get so up in arms about damage meters.
Find a group of people who also don't like them.....and group with them! problem solved.

Vantor

azraels_grave wrote: »

Sefrial wrote: »

I hope they will change this and allow Recount to collect data from other players.
No matter what everyone says it’s not fun to have a bad player in the group that ruins the fun for everyone else.

Sorry to inform but the irony of this post is too massive to ignore. Often players (and even noted in this thread), are those measuring their epeens/elitists. Not the person who lacks the maximization of their rotation. In truth I would rather have a player who is just learning, and maybe not so good. Because they can learn and they can become better. The elitists often times stay jerks. So I'm sorry if I had to pick between the two I'd pick the bad dps over a jerk. Least I can work with a bad dps, and possibly even help them.

I do not need a meter to see if someone is doing the wrong rotation. I do not need a meter to see they often stand in bad. If people would be more self aware over self reliant on a addon. There is far more clarity to being had.

And trust me I'm not one of those tunnel vision healers. I have healed in many games, and I am very aware of what others do, or do not do. As far as numbers I could care less. If you do the right rotation,stay out of bad, and we win .. gg get loot move on.

To that effect I have seen some amazing DPS that just can't stop standing in stupid. While others whom I met on a more average note, avoid everything like they should. So let me refine my thought. If you stand in everything I'm going to get tired of you. No matter how great your DPS is, and what the meter says. No excuse for constant stupid. And trust me being a healer in games since the late 90's. I have seen far more than my share of constant stupid.

And i wholeheartedly agree with this. A dead dps is 0 dps after all. That's still no reason to not have a dps meter. Not for epeen comparison, just for friendly competition.

Egdod

This used to work in the beta, but ZoS disabled the part of the API that reports other's damage and removed the ability for addons to communicate with each other

Zeypher

azraels_grave wrote: »

Zeypher wrote: »

I vote yes to Dps counters, it may be nice have this no pressure approach. But really end game content strives on competition.

Actually it strives on working as a team. Even Blizzard has noticed how pad meter happy some people have gotten, especially healers. So they are developing changes to make playability more thought involved. If you fail to play as a team, I'm happy you can't review meters. It has in the years I've raided ended in huge rages and arguments over vent. They start blaming everyone for their lack of x y z. And fail to see it was the ineffectivity of their teamwork that did most of that damage. Meters themselves in a group situation are often abused and misused on a large scale. Only a small fraction use them as they should, and as they were designed. And if they can not be used in this way as a whole by the larger portion of the community, I see no need for their existence otherwise.

as a raid leader it's down to me how people work as a team, I cannot dps or heal for them, so I would like to know who is pulling there weight and who is picking there nose! I used to heal and dps on wow and did get criticised when I first started out but this made me better a hell of alot better with out criticism people don't get better, mainly due to not knowing what better is.... My experience only don't take offence.

drunkenmastarb16_ESO

The only problem with not beeing able to use some kind of Dmg meter, is that ZOS made content which puts u into the need for such thing. One of this situations is content with enragetimers.

Just as an example, Gargyl boss in Vet Spindle.

I had a lot of runs on him now, and while most vet encounters require skill and awareness of the situation and boss abilities, the gargyl is a simple dps check. If the DD´s are not able to dish out enough dmg, u will just plain wipe within the softenrage. So, instead of looking on some kind of dps-meter and after that replacing a DD, as one was just underperforming (which makes this encounter impossible to complete), the whole grp will disband, coz noone knows who actually didnt try hard enough/ was underquipped/ had no idea of his class.

So this is a situation in which u clearly need something to locate the grp´s problem, and it has nothing to do with some sort of e-peen posing, and even if i am sorry for those who would suffer from others seeing their low dmg, it is still the only solution for content made like this.

I am playing healer btw, so usually i don´t need to brag on my dps, however, it would be nice to see for me aswell, how i do perform, regarding other healers in grps larger than 4.

And btw, in said gargyl encounter, we r just skipping the part where everyone just runs out of its aoe to avoid it, and instead have a camp just infront of the boss, while i am able to keep everyone alive until 5-10 secs after the softenrage started. Its not like any DD has to avoid anything in there, they just have to go for pure dps, and still, this encounter makes 80% of my random dungeongrps break apart after the 10th+ wipe on 10+% boss HP.

mitchutsa

The player above me made a good point on why an addon to parse a group's performance is so important.

Firstly, If you can't handle someone bragging about their dmg output/performance in a group then either mute them/don't play with them/become better.

So now I ask, what is the most successful MMO of all time? World of Warcraft. What made WoW so great? Raids.

WoW became the monster it was because of the competitive nature of it's high level raiding/PVE. To allow for such competition and for players/guilds to squeeze out the best performance possible there is a massive amount of addons/websites/forums to do so. Sure, WoW has the casual players who log on and craft, farm, play the auction house, etc, but the core reason WoW got to be so great was the community stemmed from raiding.

If Elder Scrolls Online wants to be truly successful they are going to need to facilitate a competitive raiding environment. It needs to have guilds want to work hard, like Method, Ensidia, Vodka, Paragon from WoW, to be on top of the leader boards. And it all starts with giving players the tools (like recount parses) to be competitive and optimize their toon to the best of their ability. Otherwise, Zenimax expect their game to go free to play within a year once all the hype wears off and they are struggling to get people to log on.

Also, don't get me wrong, I want this game to succeed. But facilitating to casual players who don't want recount in a game for no reason other than they don't like others bragging about their parses is a mistake.

Also, I think putting this game on console is a horrible idea and makes me wonder if Zenimax are just trying to milk as many sales a they can before Elder Scrolls Online eventually crashes and burns. No MMO can be played properly from a controller, that is just silly.