Damage Meter Addon

Krze

Has anyone seen any discussion on DPS/HPS/Damage/Healing Meters?

When I'm playing with a group, I really like to know how I'm holding up comparatively to other players and ultimately myself, to get better.

Is there anywhere to download a damage meter yet? And if not, is there any word on if one is in the works?

Raynekatt

I've not seen this yet for a party and would be quite interested myself.

Aeekto

Only for your own stats... all informations from other players are blocked (except their hitpoints).

Yshaar

go to esoui.com (a riddle to me how you missed that) and search around. There will be no group comparison though, which is a good choice. But not the place to discuss it here

Omarman

Something like the recount add-on from WoW would be great.

Seerah

This just went up today: http://esoui.com/downloads/info85-Recount.html

Xezzu

There was, once upon a time, an addon that had this sort of feature (very much like Recount for World of Warcraft), but the developers decided against this sort of functionality and removed its ability from the API (the rules for what you can and cannot do with addon authoring.. so to speak).

Now all the 'meters' are able to track are your own statistics. So I guess you can still see how you are doing, but you aren't going to have the convenience of being able to compare it immediately aside others' performance from the same meter like you may be used to.

Take it for what you will. It's been debated into the ground, trust me, but that's where things stand at the moment.

Gierolf_Whitecoatb16_ESO

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/20v372/319_api_changes_that_basically_gut_any_addons/

http://tamrieljournal.com/eso-news-roundup-restrictions-to-addons/

Fisgael

Omarman wrote: »

Something like the recount add-on from WoW would be great.

Oh no, please not! Not recount again! It's nothing but stressfull if you constantly have to watch how much DPS you're doing so the tank doesn't kick you... As soon as an addon like this comes out, people won't care about group atmosphere or how well it works together, they will only watch the numbers of this addon and judge after this... I hope recount never makes it to elder scrolls online!

Sorry but I have an inborn hatred for this kind of addon and am really glad the developers decided against that!

Alkutraz

Gotta agree with Fisgael on this, i think in ultimately ruins group continuity by having that info available to everyone. That being said I would like one for my personal stats so that i can test how different skill and weapon combinations perform since we have so many options when building your toon.

Zargorius

DPS meters are nothing more than an elaborate way to measure own's **** length and grief people who are not deemed "worthy".

I loathe the kind of culture they drag into the gaming community and strongly hope they will never take hold through any means in ESO.

That said, I'm not bothered that much even if it happens as my first reaction to any of the bullcrap you can find around MMORPGs is just to avoid it like a plague.

Fortunately due to crafting and more than enough players who do not have MMORPG background, I don't think there will ever be a problem to run any dungeons with decent people who don't care how much deeps you do, as long as the mobs die and everybody's happy.

Laerrus

In my other MMO, I do keep a damage meter but it is purely see what kind of progress that I am making with my character.

However... two things that really irk me is when someone flashes damage meters in party chat to boost their own e-peen or belittle an under performing player.

It does not hurt anyone to take a couple of minutes to help out a player that might be struggling with their class, it actually benefits us all later on down the road. It might be something simple to fix (gear or rotation issue) That person you might have thought of as a scrub, could very well turn out to be an excellent raider or pvp'er as they progress through the game.

You cannot force people to think like this, so the next best option is to prevent people from using these kinds of mods in the first place.

Good decision to remove tracking of other players damage, I really do not want to see this interesting game become just another "clone" of my other MMO.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO

I am totally for group analysis functionalities in damage meters. Group output analysis is important for competitive gaming especially if we talk about PVE. Those analyses are not there just to measure your dps or overall damage but to report on all group activities ( for example interrupts, blocks, synergies, damage taken ...). If you analyse reports you will learn what to do in future. Without this tools learning curve will not be that steep for lot of people. Regarding those people who abuse this kind of tools - dont worry they will find some other playground and they will again make sure that you feel bad.

Left_Hand

As long as the API only allows parsing of the person using the addon and not the rest of the group, i can see it as a useful tool to test rotations and whatnot.

But when these types of tools allow output of metrics on each player in the group and how they are performing it goes from useful tool to something else, and allows a lot of elitist attitudes to filter into the community.

Nox_Aeterna

Left_Hand wrote: »

As long as the API only allows parsing of the person using the addon and not the rest of the group, i can see it as a useful tool to test rotations and whatnot.

But when these types of tools allow output of metrics on each player in the group and how they are performing it goes from useful tool to something else, and allows a lot of elitist attitudes to filter into the community.

To be quite honest , i would not use a tool like recount if only i could see it.

But , like most addons/mods , if someone would like it , i have nothing against it.

Sandhya

In my opinion Zenimax took the perfect stance regarding what addons and specifically damage meters can report. By sticking to personal info you have the functionality and ability to improve your own build based upon your own experience. If you really want to e-peen with damage it can still be done but it is left outside of the game (or in chat, but who cares about that) while at the same time the main use of a damage meter stays intact.

Players that want to analyze group synergy etc. do have a slight issue but the truth is, ESO is nowhere near like WoW in terms of how tight the end game is. The mechanics are wholly different and there is less of a minmax culture in ESO, nor does it seem required to have one. So a decent group that cooperates will get more and better info from simple communication and chat + being aware of their actions than they will be crunching numbers.

On the subject of 'damage meters destroy communities' I strongly disagree. Communities destroy themselves with the wrong attitudes and those can be found in any community, regardless of having a damage meter or not. People don't need to be cuddled they need to be left free and responsible, which includes managing their people skills. That has nothing to do with addons but with personal growth. Limiting people through strict rules only hampers that personal growth because they never get into a situation where they aren't protection by those rules.

Xezzu

It's amazing how players can take a useful addon, even one like a damage meter, and somehow turn it into a standard every player feels obligated to live up to. Sometimes I wish addons weren't even allowed, even though there are plenty across many games that offer so much choice.

In the end, I suppose that's what it boils down to and maybe what ZOS is striving for - Choice. If an addon breaks that barrier, or could even risk breaking it, they don't want it.

korkibucek

With regards to seeing other players DPS, would it be possible for the DPS data to be sent between group players? Like a P2P solution.

This way we could get full recount DPS meters.

jesskitten07rwb17_ESO

why do you need a meter to tell you how you are doing? you know you are playing with other people so why not talk to them if you feel something is up with how you are performing

Avidus

Damage meters are a cancer that infect MMO's.
If you really on a mod telling you if somebody is skilled or not, then perhaps you need more skill.
You can also tell who bad players are because when they get loot, they get bugger all, so you will see them being significantly undergeared compared to skilled players.
Also note to those who say they can just buy crafted gear which is the best..
No...
You can use crafting to improve the quality of the really good items you get from performing extremely well in PvE. Those will be the best items.

Wreaken

The people and players themselves are to blame for how the mentality has been driven towards one another in terms of monitoring people for min/max purposes. You can't blame the programs, they aren't forcing people to be like that.

There is good and bad to all add-on's and what you choose to get out of a game that allows add-on features is totally up to the player. How you choose to treat people in game is also totally up to that player.

Do people really think that DPS add-on's are the *plague* to MMO's like so many seem to think? What is stopping me from data mining your damage done and averaging it over per second to constructively criticise your current play style not being up to the task when needing to min/max? I can simply do the math based on a few very small values based on magicka, duration, cool down's, weapon damage, critical modifications, damage modifications etc. to work out the best possible spec available and then criticise your jack-of-all trades build is wrong, then what?

What's the point here? Humanity is to blame, not add-on's. People have been allowed to abuse people with no consequences and it only gets worse every year in game and out with all the social network bullying online these days, that is the simple truth of it all.

That aside, I like to monitor myself and push myself for every little bit of anything I can receive or attain in game, does that make me a bad person or a *cancer*? I and many others have been playing this way since the early 90's when RPG's came to life over the internet.

korwinthale

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Wreaken

korwinthale wrote: »

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Assuming your DPS was riding the Threat coat tail (assuming Threat percentage thresholds were being consistently met), then you had the DPS to meet the requirements. So you replaced the DPS meters with a Threat meter where you likely said to people, aim for broke on the meter, so therefor you were a bunch of hypocrits as the threat meter serves the same purpose as a DPS meter.

Just saying, and on that note, how do you know who was using them and who wasn't?

Corithna

korkibucek wrote: »

With regards to seeing other players DPS, would it be possible for the DPS data to be sent between group players? Like a P2P solution.

This way we could get full recount DPS meters.

Specific reporting to the chat window of anything aside from loot is currently restricted. And without a chat window portal the parsing of such data is impossible as it's not reported in a way that's record-able outside the game client.

Another aspect that may not be fully realized yet is that currently there is no vote kick option. Only the inviting party lead has the option to remove a particular player. I don't know, but doubt, if this function is enabled during groups set up via the LFG.

Combat logs have been deprecated and will most likely remain that way given the stance taken by zos.

This company is very dedicated to making this game have a level playing field for all it's customers. Even those without equipment specific to gaming. It's designed to be both challenging but accessible, but most of all just a fun game to play. As one developer put it, this game is designed to appeal to a broad spectrum of players, not just the min/maxers.

azraels_grave

Meters have ultimately made many players in WoW not as good. How so? For example a healer may cast most healing than is needed simply to beat (pad meters) the other healers. There is a difference between effective abilities vs padded abilities. Meters would only deter and do the same to ESO. Which players should focus on being better by how they see themselves performing. Not because they are trying for bragging rights on needless padding.

Tuchaka

We all have total control with who we game with , if someone acts like a total jerk over DPS that person is the problem mute / block find a guild without jerks.....leave the pug your in etc.

korwinthale

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Assuming your DPS was riding the Threat coat tail (assuming Threat percentage thresholds were being consistently met), then you had the DPS to meet the requirements. So you replaced the DPS meters with a Threat meter where you likely said to people, aim for broke on the meter, so therefor you were a bunch of hypocrits as the threat meter serves the same purpose as a DPS meter.

Just saying, and on that note, how do you know who was using them and who wasn't?

What a person uses or doesn't use is up to them I told them it wasn't allowed so at least that crap was NOT posted in chat nor was anyone ever called out, and high threat doesn't always mean high DPS either, that's a common misconception among inexperienced raiders.

Wreaken

korwinthale wrote: »

Wreaken wrote: »

korwinthale wrote: »

I banned DPS meters in my guild and allowed only threat meters during raids in order to help my newer players learn threat management. once in a while I would allow one of my officers to run DPS meter just to see if we as a group met the base requirements for rage timers etc.. But other than that we rolled mostly stock and still downed all content.

Assuming your DPS was riding the Threat coat tail (assuming Threat percentage thresholds were being consistently met), then you had the DPS to meet the requirements. So you replaced the DPS meters with a Threat meter where you likely said to people, aim for broke on the meter, so therefor you were a bunch of hypocrits as the threat meter serves the same purpose as a DPS meter.

Just saying, and on that note, how do you know who was using them and who wasn't?

What a person uses or doesn't use is up to them I told them it wasn't allowed so at least that crap was NOT posted in chat nor was anyone ever called out, and high threat doesn't always mean high DPS either, that's a common misconception among inexperienced raiders.

Chalk it up how ever you like, DPS, HPS, eDPS, eHPS, TPS and eTPS all correlate to threat. How it is calculated per point applied is the misconception among inexperienced raiders. Sure, you can pad that meter, but in reality, the way you intended its purpose, was a DPS meter without the numbers.

The epeen value of being top on the meter (minus the tanks) still applies just the same as if it was a number crunching game.

TheGodless1

Laerrus wrote: »

In my other MMO, I do keep a damage meter but it is purely see what kind of progress that I am making with my character.

However... two things that really irk me is when someone flashes damage meters in party chat to boost their own e-peen or belittle an under performing player.

It does not hurt anyone to take a couple of minutes to help out a player that might be struggling with their class, it actually benefits us all later on down the road. It might be something simple to fix (gear or rotation issue) That person you might have thought of as a scrub, could very well turn out to be an excellent raider or pvp'er as they progress through the game.

You cannot force people to think like this, so the next best option is to prevent people from using these kinds of mods in the first place.

Good decision to remove tracking of other players damage, I really do not want to see this interesting game become just another "clone" of my other MMO.

Can't agree enough with you! I started my subscription MMOs in Aion. I had no idea what I was doing. I just mashed buttons. Then one day a guildie came up to me and said "Look..you are horrible. Sorry to tell you this, but it affects the guild and others." I was insulted and was about to reply in anger, when he continued..."So the guild leader asked me to work with you and show you how to be a better player."
This guy taught me to be one of the best tanks and dps. He took the time to teach a noob about rotations, debuffs, buffs, skill choices to slot, gear set ups. I was inundated by it all. My anger was quickly turned to humility and later pride. I use parsers/DPS meters, but only at end game and with my core group. We don't use them for anything more than to track our progress in DPS. Nothing like getting a new piece of gear or two and watching your DPS skyrocket. It pushes me to new limits without anyone telling me I need "moar deeps!" (forgive the Barrens language). I think Zenimax has it right. It's a personal thing. If you need to know someone else's DPS that badly perhaps it is you woh are lacking and need to berate someone else so you don't look so bad. After all, the spoken words are often considered before the written. In my honest opinion, this game doesn't need a DPS or Ag meter. IT's an Elder Scrolls game. DPS meters are for those cookie cutter games like wow and swtor. Let's just let this be the first game that can be a little different and what it was meant to be instead of ruining it with things you think you need from other games you no longer play due to them being all the same anymore...

viperdemonzub17_ESO

Fisgael wrote: »

Omarman wrote: »

Something like the recount add-on from WoW would be great.

Oh no, please not! Not recount again! It's nothing but stressfull if you constantly have to watch how much DPS you're doing so the tank doesn't kick you... As soon as an addon like this comes out, people won't care about group atmosphere or how well it works together, they will only watch the numbers of this addon and judge after this... I hope recount never makes it to elder scrolls online!

Sorry but I have an inborn hatred for this kind of addon and am really glad the developers decided against that!

totally agree with this its just a way to say ones epeen is bigger than another and nothing more. its not how much damage you can do but how well you work as a team.

karnage412

TheGodless1 wrote: »

Laerrus wrote: »

In my other MMO, I do keep a damage meter but it is purely see what kind of progress that I am making with my character.

However... two things that really irk me is when someone flashes damage meters in party chat to boost their own e-peen or belittle an under performing player.

It does not hurt anyone to take a couple of minutes to help out a player that might be struggling with their class, it actually benefits us all later on down the road. It might be something simple to fix (gear or rotation issue) That person you might have thought of as a scrub, could very well turn out to be an excellent raider or pvp'er as they progress through the game.

You cannot force people to think like this, so the next best option is to prevent people from using these kinds of mods in the first place.

Good decision to remove tracking of other players damage, I really do not want to see this interesting game become just another "clone" of my other MMO.

Can't agree enough with you! I started my subscription MMOs in Aion. I had no idea what I was doing. I just mashed buttons. Then one day a guildie came up to me and said "Look..you are horrible. Sorry to tell you this, but it affects the guild and others." I was insulted and was about to reply in anger, when he continued..."So the guild leader asked me to work with you and show you how to be a better player."
This guy taught me to be one of the best tanks and dps. He took the time to teach a noob about rotations, debuffs, buffs, skill choices to slot, gear set ups. I was inundated by it all. My anger was quickly turned to humility and later pride. I use parsers/DPS meters, but only at end game and with my core group. We don't use them for anything more than to track our progress in DPS. Nothing like getting a new piece of gear or two and watching your DPS skyrocket. It pushes me to new limits without anyone telling me I need "moar deeps!" (forgive the Barrens language). I think Zenimax has it right. It's a personal thing. If you need to know someone else's DPS that badly perhaps it is you woh are lacking and need to berate someone else so you don't look so bad. After all, the spoken words are often considered before the written. In my honest opinion, this game doesn't need a DPS or Ag meter. IT's an Elder Scrolls game. DPS meters are for those cookie cutter games like wow and swtor. Let's just let this be the first game that can be a little different and what it was meant to be instead of ruining it with things you think you need from other games you no longer play due to them being all the same anymore...

Indeed
We have all been at the point when we were considered noobs and didn't know what we were doing something some people forget about and rather just abuse someone cause of it. That being said Meters are good and bad good for personal growth of your character but bad for those that abuse for their epeen. Also i find a meter can be quite distracting in a raid when people are just worrying about their dps and not the mechanics of a fight.