Vent your frustrations here - Unbalanced DKs

TechMaybeHic

I don't really care where DK is at. I would just like some burst for my templar outside of execute range, please

Syiccal

I main a plar and currently it's not even close how much easier it is to do well with my dk in pvp, I'm not even that good a dk yet Xing is is a breeze in comparison. Dk just has so much sustain and burst potential right now

malistorr

Yeah I'm basically stopping to play PVP and maybe the whole game. Class balance is non-existent and I don't feel like leveling up a 4th toon just to be competitive at PVP. You shouldn't be forced to play 1-class if you want to be able to win a 1v1. I've tried sorc, nb, and plar and none can compete on even footing with a DK. There are plenty of other games to play and I'm finally sick of ZOS not fixing bugs, not fixing PVP performance, and not fixing class balance. For the most part, goodbye to ESO.

Turtle_Bot

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar and currently it's not even close how much easier it is to do well with my dk in pvp, I'm not even that good a dk yet Xing is is a breeze in comparison. Dk just has so much sustain and burst potential right now

It's the same for me going from my sorc to my DK (I finally made the switch a couple days ago).

It is literally night and day with how those 2 classes perform right now (and I imagine it's the same with plar to dk as well).

I literally took the build my sorc has and put it on my dk, no changes to armor/weapons/jewelry. Replaced sorc class skills with dk class skills (other skills remained the same).
I went from struggling to get a single part of my burst combo off without getting instantly nuked down by enemy groups, to surviving bombs that proc VD/plaguebreak multiple times, not to mention Volendrung (hammer) ultimates, while also being able to literally make ball groups and faction stacks be constantly on the back foot and be forced to disengage if not outright wiping them.

And no, I am not wearing Mara's balm or any defensive set for that level of survivability either, just a pure damage build with offensive sets equipped. That is just the natural power level of DK in PvP right now, it's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I also want to add, I'm not even a vampire either, so no stage 3 undeath passive to carry me there, DK is just that strong currently.

axi

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar and currently it's not even close how much easier it is to do well with my dk in pvp, I'm not even that good a dk yet Xing is is a breeze in comparison. Dk just has so much sustain and burst potential right now

It's the same for me going from my sorc to my DK (I finally made the switch a couple days ago).

It is literally night and day with how those 2 classes perform right now (and I imagine it's the same with plar to dk as well).

I literally took the build my sorc has and put it on my dk, no changes to armor/weapons/jewelry. Replaced sorc class skills with dk class skills (other skills remained the same).
I went from struggling to get a single part of my burst combo off without getting instantly nuked down by enemy groups, to surviving bombs that proc VD/plaguebreak multiple times, not to mention Volendrung (hammer) ultimates, while also being able to literally make ball groups and faction stacks be constantly on the back foot and be forced to disengage if not outright wiping them.

And no, I am not wearing Mara's balm or any defensive set for that level of survivability either, just a pure damage build with offensive sets equipped. That is just the natural power level of DK in PvP right now, it's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I also want to add, I'm not even a vampire either, so no stage 3 undeath passive to carry me there, DK is just that strong currently.

I chuckle every time when I see post like that. Pattern is always the same, "I wasn't able to do anything on my class A but when I switched to class B I am a god (and optionally) and I don't even have optimised setup". Yes magsorc is in sorry state in solo play and DK is much stronger but fantasy stories won't change that.

There is something like too much fantasy in a fantasy story and part that starts to descrbe how after transition suddenly one person went from strugling to survive, to surviving everything and LITERALLY/CONSTANTLY pushing/wiping ball groups while not even geared good (when keeping narrative like it's done alone) is what I call too much fantasy. Everyone who plays the game knows reality is not so colorfull.

TechMaybeHic

Even going from NB to DK, it feels Way easier. I don't think NB is far behind in effectiveness; I just mean in ease to get there. That extra reach on melee range abilities is so underated in Cyrodiils bad performance. And I'm not sure how, as I have more HOTs run on my NB, but somehow it feels easier to stay off your backbar on DK. And I'm not running claw or the whip that heals, nor the cauterized morph

olsborg

Its true, nothing else to say, and it is sad that the balance-team fails to see it.
Just tells you how disconnected they are from the pvp in this game. How much fun it will be to have dks chain himself to you with corrosive active and powerlash and...yep...major berserk. What in the hells...

Turtle_Bot

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar and currently it's not even close how much easier it is to do well with my dk in pvp, I'm not even that good a dk yet Xing is is a breeze in comparison. Dk just has so much sustain and burst potential right now

It's the same for me going from my sorc to my DK (I finally made the switch a couple days ago).

It is literally night and day with how those 2 classes perform right now (and I imagine it's the same with plar to dk as well).

I literally took the build my sorc has and put it on my dk, no changes to armor/weapons/jewelry. Replaced sorc class skills with dk class skills (other skills remained the same).
I went from struggling to get a single part of my burst combo off without getting instantly nuked down by enemy groups, to surviving bombs that proc VD/plaguebreak multiple times, not to mention Volendrung (hammer) ultimates, while also being able to literally make ball groups and faction stacks be constantly on the back foot and be forced to disengage if not outright wiping them.

And no, I am not wearing Mara's balm or any defensive set for that level of survivability either, just a pure damage build with offensive sets equipped. That is just the natural power level of DK in PvP right now, it's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I also want to add, I'm not even a vampire either, so no stage 3 undeath passive to carry me there, DK is just that strong currently.

I chuckle every time when I see post like that. Patternm is always the same, "I wasn't able to do anything on my class A but when I switchjed to class B I am a god (and optionally) and I don't even have optimised setup". Yes magsorc is in sorry state in solo play and DK is much stronger but fantasy stories won't change that.

There is something like too much fantasy in a fantasy story and part that starts to descrbe how after transition suddenly one person went from strugling to survive, to surviving everything and LITERALLY/CONSTANTLY pushing/wiping ball groups while not even geared good (when keeping narrative like it's done alone) is what I call too much fantasy. Everyone who plays the game knows reality is not so colorfull.

[snip]

Just because you're not good enough to survive bombs, the hammer or put pressure on large groups doesn't mean nobody else is. FYI, there was zero lie or exaggeration on those survival capabilities, they all happened multiple times over the course of that play session.
Sure I wasn't "alone" when pressuring the ball groups, but it wasn't a zerg v zerg situation, it was me and maybe 3 others tops (all solo, or at least I was not grouped with the others) driving the ball group back and it was off the back of my pushes that the ball group took those steps backwards (lost group members).

The point is still very much valid though, same battle conditions, same enemies, same build, only difference was the class I was playing (sorc and DK) and DK was completely overperforming.

I also never said "wasn't able to do anything". I said "I was struggling to do anything", there's a huge difference, [snip]

[edited for baiting]

axi

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

axi wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

I main a plar and currently it's not even close how much easier it is to do well with my dk in pvp, I'm not even that good a dk yet Xing is is a breeze in comparison. Dk just has so much sustain and burst potential right now

It's the same for me going from my sorc to my DK (I finally made the switch a couple days ago).

It is literally night and day with how those 2 classes perform right now (and I imagine it's the same with plar to dk as well).

I literally took the build my sorc has and put it on my dk, no changes to armor/weapons/jewelry. Replaced sorc class skills with dk class skills (other skills remained the same).
I went from struggling to get a single part of my burst combo off without getting instantly nuked down by enemy groups, to surviving bombs that proc VD/plaguebreak multiple times, not to mention Volendrung (hammer) ultimates, while also being able to literally make ball groups and faction stacks be constantly on the back foot and be forced to disengage if not outright wiping them.

And no, I am not wearing Mara's balm or any defensive set for that level of survivability either, just a pure damage build with offensive sets equipped. That is just the natural power level of DK in PvP right now, it's absolutely absurd.

Edit: I also want to add, I'm not even a vampire either, so no stage 3 undeath passive to carry me there, DK is just that strong currently.

I chuckle every time when I see post like that. Patternm is always the same, "I wasn't able to do anything on my class A but when I switchjed to class B I am a god (and optionally) and I don't even have optimised setup". Yes magsorc is in sorry state in solo play and DK is much stronger but fantasy stories won't change that.

There is something like too much fantasy in a fantasy story and part that starts to descrbe how after transition suddenly one person went from strugling to survive, to surviving everything and LITERALLY/CONSTANTLY pushing/wiping ball groups while not even geared good (when keeping narrative like it's done alone) is what I call too much fantasy. Everyone who plays the game knows reality is not so colorfull.

Ahh yes, the tired old "This never happens to me, so therefore it must be complete fantasy and never happens to anyone else ever" excuse I see every thread from people trying to put down or nullify others experiences.

Yawn, find a new excuse.

Just because you're not good enough to survive bombs, the hammer or put pressure on large groups doesn't mean nobody else is. FYI, there was zero lie or exaggeration on those survival capabilities, they all happened multiple times over the course of that play session.
Sure I wasn't "alone" when pressuring the ball groups, but it wasn't a zerg v zerg situation, it was me and maybe 3 others tops (all solo, or at least I was not grouped with the others) driving the ball group back and it was off the back of my pushes that the ball group took those steps backwards (lost group members).

The point is still very much valid though, same battle conditions, same enemies, same build, only difference was the class I was playing (sorc and DK) and DK was completely overperforming.

I also never said "wasn't able to do anything". I said "I was struggling to do anything", there's a huge difference, not that that matters to people like you who just want to crap all over others experiences to make yourself feel better.

Ah yes the tired old "dude trust me this happens to me CONSTANTLY. No matter how fantastic it may sound just trust me on my word and nothing else because I will never prove it in any other way"

You are comparing brawler class to a hit and run class and making an abvious claim that brawler have better defense in brawls. Yes that is how brawler works. FYI everyone can survive/avoid bombs and hammer when built properly and playing conciously.

Ball groups differ. They could be just a bunch of random ungroupped players who were brainlesly rushing to take the keep. Taking down or pushsing away perople like that isn't that hard for a small group of good players even on weaker classes.Ball group is also a vague term, for some people 10 man is already a ball group. Fact that You weren't alone also changes narratrive a bit but I think You knew that and this is why You were not mentioning that in Your first comment because it wouldn't sound so fantastic anymore.

The point is that even the best players playing on fully optimised DKs are not able to CONSTANTLY push/wipe ball groups when playing solo or in small group. Yes it happens occasionally when circumstances allow for that but it's not a constant. And if battle conditions were the same that really doesn't prove what You think it proves. it just proves that brawlers are better in brawl conditions.

There isn't a big difference. Narrative pattern in these stories stays the same.

Caribou77

Meh. Dk is objectively overpowered by an egregious margin, literary criticism notwithstanding.

Luth7

Bow low before the epitome of finesse and strategical thinking:

Rhaegar75

shall we open another discussion on the same topic?

Mansquito

Yeah good idea, I'll get one started shortly.

Syiccal

I think the biggest issue with Dk is that they have crazy sustain, burst and healing with 0 draw back..it used to be expensive skills making sustain hard and no mobility but this is most definitely not the case any more.i can sustain far easier on my dk than anything else with out much effort

Veinblood1965

I did not read every reply however as many have said before in previous threads, just wait it out! You're turn will come! The nerf bat giveth and taketh away with every patch.

OBJnoob

Doesn't seem like DKs are getting nerfed though. But I'm sure when people figure out how to play Arcanist they'll be top dog.

Syiccal

I just take solace in the fact that u know anyone on a dk right now is playing easy mode, myself included, on the occasion I play it it's because I want a super casual couple hours without having to think. I much prefer playing my main (plar) but it requires a little more swet to achieve anything similar

Caribou77

One interesting side-effect of the significant DK advantages at this point in time is that I am now seeing some really, truly inexperienced players on the class. I completely understand why a new or struggling player would gravitate to a strong class, but it's pretty amazing to experience a skilled/seasoned player on DK who is all but invincible while at the same time running into the new DKs who are standing in one place spamming whip/talons endlessly.

I guess it's just another symptom of the mediocre dynamic created by extreme class imbalance.

I also gotta give a nod to those Necros hanging in there with their class. Good on you. I hope they help your class as soon as possible.

katorga

On the plus side, for an average player like me the passive that extends melee attacks 2m makes life so much easier.

But yeah. Unbalanced. Make up most of the Cyro population.

Thecompton73 wrote: »

Caribou77 wrote: »

Gotta love it when people try to defend Corrosive.

The only people still playing DK are simps who are happy “winning” without competing.

Honestly, I’d be unable to enjoy pvp if DK was my main/favorite class.

It’s in a ridiculously unbalanced place. That is not debatable.

Nah, all those players have moved onto running React's NB build which is nearly as durable but has a burst that will kill just about anyone if they get caught by it.

I think both classes are equal at this point....NB is faster, DK is tankier. Both are an order of magnitude better than the other classes, so much so that you are just handicapping yourself with anything else.

Personally I think DK is much easier for average players, 7m melee distance means easier targeting. NB is less forgiving but I think overall more powerful. Really good players will get more out of NB, average out of DK. It will be interesting to see what happens with Arcanist. If it is not as powerful as NB/DK (or they hella-nerf both prior to next chapter) it will be stillborn.

AdamLAD

I'm using rally cry, maras and markyn on my DK. I hit someone with a 12k whip yesterday outside corrosive. I hit between 6-9k critical whips regularly and 7-11k leaps. What ? With all that defence and sustain. There's no single weakness to it. I main a magicka sorcerer and I'm sorry but it pales in to comparison to a DK as of now. I'm not hating on DK, but anyone who says it's not ridiculous and I mean ridiculous is bias. I'm not speaking opinion I'm speaking fact. The same goes for a NB. Whilst I knew these classes were strong. Physically playing them and being a mag sorc main has literally proved it to me. People saying streak is op. Sticking on maras balm with race against time and celerity CP makes u even more mobile more consistently as ur hardly ever rooted due to the cleanses, never mind the excellent stamina sustain you just inheritnly get on a DK to help with rolldodging out of roots ect. I regularly play with my good freind Andeh and we regularly 2vX. After playing on my DK for less than 24hours, he complained when I hopped back on my sorcerer 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Throw us sorcs a bone and i mean a significant bone zenimax if you intend on keeping DK and NB the same

Mansquito

Throw Templar a few bones or even a whole carcass then please, ZOS ^^

TechMaybeHic

I can get close to killing random DKs 1v1 with my templar; but they seem to easily heal to full and get back on their front foot while I spam HTD a few times and eventually I start to lose the sustain war. That's so odd to me but yet, it makes sense when think about how much I have to work for damage.

I will make some adjustment and I will just laugh at them when it starts to happen regularly

katorga

AdamLAD wrote: »

I'm using rally cry, maras and markyn on my DK. I hit someone with a 12k whip yesterday outside corrosive. I hit between 6-9k critical whips regularly and 7-11k leaps. What ? With all that defence and sustain. There's no single weakness to it. I main a magicka sorcerer and I'm sorry but it pales in to comparison to a DK as of now. I'm not hating on DK, but anyone who says it's not ridiculous and I mean ridiculous is bias. I'm not speaking opinion I'm speaking fact. The same goes for a NB. Whilst I knew these classes were strong. Physically playing them and being a mag sorc main has literally proved it to me. People saying streak is op. Sticking on maras balm with race against time and celerity CP makes u even more mobile more consistently as ur hardly ever rooted due to the cleanses, never mind the excellent stamina sustain you just inheritnly get on a DK to help with rolldodging out of roots ect. I regularly play with my good freind Andeh and we regularly 2vX. After playing on my DK for less than 24hours, he complained when I hopped back on my sorcerer 🤣🤣🤣🤣. Throw us sorcs a bone and i mean a significant bone zenimax if you intend on keeping DK and NB the same

Streak is aoe cc, nothing more at this point. But yeah, My DK with barely enough skill points for 2 weapon lines, 3 undaunted, 9 FG, no vamp, no mages guild, no medicinal use passive yet, completely outperforms my Sorc and Necro mains.

Swap to my sorcs stamsorc build, and find I am completely outclassed for movement speed by my NB. Go figure.

Still on the fence about whether DK or NB will become my new main....Probably NB, at least the class is somewhat difficult to play. DK just feels cheesy now.

Luth7

katorga wrote: »

Still on the fence about whether DK or NB will become my new main....Probably NB, at least the class is somewhat difficult to play. DK just feels cheesy now.

You also won't have to play the Balrog minigame and the class ability FX doesn't look horrible/destroys your characters visuals, which is a big plus to me.

katorga

Luth7 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Still on the fence about whether DK or NB will become my new main....Probably NB, at least the class is somewhat difficult to play. DK just feels cheesy now.

You also won't have to play the Balrog minigame and the class ability FX doesn't look horrible/destroys your characters visuals, which is a big plus to me.

Hah so true. Class visuals are what put me off DK and Templar way back when.