Wrecking blow will kill almost all magicka specs

Zezin

With the exception of DKs having it in chains pretty much every other class will be forced to play with a two handed stamina spec to be optimal, please add Major Berserk an alternative magicka skill(such as elemental weapon or in a dot like destructive reach) or remove it from chains and wrecking blow.

The best option would be adding it in destructive reach as it would add a little power to the otherwise quite weak skill while enabling us to use it on the back bar with whatever front bar option we would want.

ForumBully

Not if it doesn't land. It's still buggy

Soarora

I think a better option is to just… remove Major Berserk from the things it was added to. Make it minor or change the buff entirely. There’s no reason to increase top DPS. I’ve already seen a parse over 130k.

Edit: Also, adding Major Berserk to a global skill line kills sets like Kinras. People stopped using Kinras already due to meta changes but now there’s even less case to use it.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Indeed... I love how the one magicka weapon spammable is hilariously weak in comparison. In reality, the destruction staff skill line is by far the most in need of help and buffs. Destruction staves are the only magicka weapon.

Zezin

Soarora wrote: »

I think a better option is to just… remove Major Berserk from the things it was added to. Make it minor or change the buff entirely. There’s no reason to increase top DPS. I’ve already seen a parse over 130k.

Edit: Also, adding Major Berserk to a global skill line kills sets like Kinras. People stopped using Kinras already due to meta changes but now there’s even less case to use it.

I did mention the option of removing it altogether I just don't want there to be a meta where either you play magDK or a stamna spec, also please remember that currently we already have parses going over that threshold and the number we see on current patches was inflated by 20% to 15% in U35.

Soarora

Zezin wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

I think a better option is to just… remove Major Berserk from the things it was added to. Make it minor or change the buff entirely. There’s no reason to increase top DPS. I’ve already seen a parse over 130k.

Edit: Also, adding Major Berserk to a global skill line kills sets like Kinras. People stopped using Kinras already due to meta changes but now there’s even less case to use it.

I did mention the option of removing it altogether I just don't want there to be a meta where either you play magDK or a stamna spec, also please remember that currently we already have parses going over that threshold and the number we see on current patches was inflated by 20% to 15% in U35.

The inflation is why I mention it. ZOS nerfed everyone, some more than others, and now they’re handing out Major Berserk* (and making it so meta chasers have to farm and reconstruct another weapon…). It doesn’t make sense.

*and this Major Berserk won’t even help the specs that got hit the hardest. It just buffs DKs even more? DKs don’t need buffed.

Zodiarkslayer

The game needed better access to Major Berserk. More buffs from more sources is more better for more players (That should be the new mantra for the ZOS Devs ).

It's just that putting it on a Weapon ability seems enabling and restrictive at the same time.
Maybe a guild skill line would've been a better option.
Maybe Psijic or Undaunted?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Everyone seems to be using the Sea Serpant's coil, it is already giving them Major Berserk.

propertyOfUndefined

Wrecking blow is fine, I think. It at least takes some work to connect with. Chains is ridiculous -- especially considering the fact that DKs are already king of the mountain.

Stx

Wrecking blow definitely needs something.. what if the major berserk lasted only 3 seconds?

Lortie

It never got the 360-degree turning forgiveness that dizzying swing got many years ago. So even though the major berserk may look very temping on paper, in practice it far too inconsistent in PvP to be used as a spammable. PvE might be a different story.

StaticWave

Uppercut is just generally a bad spammable in PvP. Major Berserk is nice, but that won't be enough to make everyone switch to it. The 0.8s channel alone is a big deterrent.

Urzigurumash

StaticWave wrote: »

Uppercut is just generally a bad spammable in PvP. Major Berserk is nice, but that won't be enough to make everyone switch to it. The 0.8s channel alone is a big deterrent.

So is an underwhelming tooltip. Increase its damage, increase its cast time I say, more risk, more reward.

Anyhow as to the topic Destro has 28m Major Breach and Degen is a "Mage" skill. Bow doesn't have Major Breach, Major Berserk, or Major Brutality without losing the Execute. Ele Sus is extremely strong right now.

Major Berserk is of course much more valuable than single target Major Breach but point is, there isn't equal access to all the Major buffs/debuffs across the "Mage Thief Warrior" spectrum. There should be, sure why not.

Seems to me 2h/Ice Staff will be the single most universally optimal Weapon Combo.

merpins

I've always liked Wrecking Blow. It feels heavy, and thus satisfying to use. Giving it Major Berserk is a nice change for me, but dual wield will probably still outpace it in terms of DPS by a small margin if your class has a good spammable option. It will probably outpace the Dual Wield spammable in every aspect unless you're a Warden running a bleed build now though.

I'll probably still run my Sea Serpent's Coil instead though.

Zezin

merpins wrote: »

I've always liked Wrecking Blow. It feels heavy, and thus satisfying to use. Giving it Major Berserk is a nice change for me, but dual wield will probably still outpace it in terms of DPS by a small margin if your class has a good spammable option. It will probably outpace the Dual Wield spammable in every aspect unless you're a Warden running a bleed build now though.

I'll probably still run my Sea Serpent's Coil instead though.

nope, parses are already coming out and 2h meta is definitely going to be a thing.

Zezin

It's also going to add a layer of complexity to rotations as it's a 5 second timer, I'm used to it having played a lot of NB and necro but it will probably increase the distance between floor and ceiling a little.

TechMaybeHic

Wrecking blow is much worse to use in lag than dizzy swing, believe it or not. And in CP; dizzy swing gives access to exploiter which also gives the 10% damage boost.
Now, if you want to stack both by using 2 different abilities to get both off balance and major berserk, we can talk efficiency of 10% that is not really 10% vs just having used your better spammable. Of course maybe as a templar you could use toppling charge and wrecking blow over jabs/sweeps, but it is really clunky.

I think the more useful would be DKs who want to play the classic sDK dizzy swing play style but still keep whip. Chains do provide a gap closer and a stack of whip anyway so, would it be precast FoO, gap close chain, breath, dizzy-medium, leap if you're a holdout from corrosive, whip, nay-nay?

Thinking about it, I actually kind of like the idea of that as a combo for DK minus being on the receiving end of it backed by corrosive. Too bad backlash sucks on templar to do something similar with toppling into wrecking blow

sharquez

Can you show your work/testing that determines if this is true? Because if it is it would be an alarming change.

Otherwise take your hands off the keyboard and stop propagating unsubstantiated claims.

godchucknzilla

You can get Major beserk from sea serpent and major courage.

React

This isn't even close to accurate.

Major berserk isn't that strong of a buff - closer to 5% true damage done than the tooltip's 10% in most cases. It's already accessible to everybody through coil (alongside 400+ weapon damage).

This is exactly the kind of buff uppercut needs in order to be a viable option again. Hybridization vastly favors magicka morphs and magicka focused builds. With this buff, many classes will now have the option to play a rewarding and burst oriented playstyle that is stamina focused, rather than magicka.

It'll be worthless if they shift it to minor berserk, and none of this even matters if they don't fix the targeting issue on the wrecking blow morph. The wrecking blow morph suffers from a problem where if your character model (NOT your cursor) isn't facing your target at any point in the channel, it instantly cancels. Dizzying does not share this bug, and it effectively makes wrecking blow useless in PVP.

katorga

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Everyone seems to be using the Sea Serpant's coil, it is already giving them Major Berserk.

Not everyone. Some classes can use Sea Serpent with no downsides, their class kits completely offset the negative buffs of the mythic.

katorga

React wrote: »

This isn't even close to accurate.

Major berserk isn't that strong of a buff - closer to 5% true damage done than the tooltip's 10% in most cases. It's already accessible to everybody through coil (alongside 400+ weapon damage).

This is exactly the kind of buff uppercut needs in order to be a viable option again. Hybridization vastly favors magicka morphs and magicka focused builds. With this buff, many classes will now have the option to play a rewarding and burst oriented playstyle that is stamina focused, rather than magicka.

It'll be worthless if they shift it to minor berserk, and none of this even matters if they don't fix the targeting issue on the wrecking blow morph. The wrecking blow morph suffers from a problem where if your character model (NOT your cursor) isn't facing your target at any point in the channel, it instantly cancels. Dizzying does not share this bug, and it effectively makes wrecking blow useless in PVP.

Correct. Once It was nerfed from 25%, where it was impactful and rare, to 10%, where it doesn't really matter, ZOS has no reason not to toss it around like candy.

The primary problem is they have stacked this stuff into just a few classes and one weapon line.

End result is that a couple of classes are completely free of set or build dependencies to fill in gaps in the class kit, because they have no gaps, are able to negate the curse side of "kiss/curse" sets and mythics. Everyone else is forced into a weapon line and playstyle, and has to make serious decisions and trade-offs on sets and builds to remain competitive.

Soarora

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Everyone seems to be using the Sea Serpant's coil, it is already giving them Major Berserk.

Not in PvE they’re not. If this change is a necessity for PvP then ZOS needs to finally balance PvE and PvP separately. I’m tired of this buff/nerf re-farm completely change build every patch dance and I’m not even effected as much as others.

OBJnoob

I don't understand people saying it doesn't matter because so many people are using sea serpent. I mean... I reckon theyll use something else now. Right?

I don't really understand why people are explaining about diminishing returns either. Diminishing returns didn't stop concealed weapon from making NBs OP, did it? In fact when people were saying AW was OP people were denying it, pointing to stacked percentage modifiers as being the culprit instead.

A buff is a buff. Now I'm not personally as upset about it being on wrecking blow as I am with DKs having it... But still.

WrathOfInnos

I see this as a nice buff to Necromancers. They will be able to front bar Greatsword and slot Wreching Blow and Executioner with 4 Grave Lord abilities. The missing dagger crit is made up for by 32% crit chance in execute, when both bloodthirsty and executioner are getting powerful. It's not like anyone loves Skull (many Necros were doing Silver Shards instead).

Other classes may try it as well, but they won't have the same synergy between 2H and class skills.

Zodiarkslayer

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I see this as a nice buff to Necromancers. They will be able to front bar Greatsword and slot Wreching Blow and Executioner with 4 Grave Lord abilities. The missing dagger crit is made up for by 32% crit chance in execute, when both bloodthirsty and executioner are getting powerful. It's not like anyone loves Skull (many Necros were doing Silver Shards instead).

Other classes may try it as well, but they won't have the same synergy between 2H and class skills.

True, I already got my Necro a sharpened Greatsword for SOLOing.
If StamSorcs weren't so dependent on the Dagger's crit chance, I would give them a Greatsword, too.

Which class could benefit too in your opinion? Nightblades and Templars need Daggers, too. They cannot afford to switch to 2H.
DKs have access through a class ability. They don't need to switch.
Wardens maybe?

Sheesh, might really be just Necros that can benefit from Wrecking Blow's new Major Berserk...

WrathOfInnos

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I see this as a nice buff to Necromancers. They will be able to front bar Greatsword and slot Wreching Blow and Executioner with 4 Grave Lord abilities. The missing dagger crit is made up for by 32% crit chance in execute, when both bloodthirsty and executioner are getting powerful. It's not like anyone loves Skull (many Necros were doing Silver Shards instead).

Other classes may try it as well, but they won't have the same synergy between 2H and class skills.

True, I already got my Necro a sharpened Greatsword for SOLOing.
If StamSorcs weren't so dependent on the Dagger's crit chance, I would give them a Greatsword, too.

Which class could benefit too in your opinion? Nightblades and Templars need Daggers, too. They cannot afford to switch to 2H.
DKs have access through a class ability. They don't need to switch.
Wardens maybe?

Sheesh, might really be just Necros that can benefit from Wrecking Blow's new Major Berserk...

Yeah, Nightblade and Templar also have great class executes, so it's hard to justify a 2H front bar just for Wrecking Blow.

I'm not sure about Warden, they seem forced into Frost Staff. The Warden changes in the last year have been really limiting and disappointing. They do lack a class execute, but they'd be giving up 10% damage from Piercing Cold to gain the same 10% from Major Berserk.

DK may use it. Although Whip is really good spammable already. TBD if chains proves to be a better source of major berserk than wrecking blow. They would certainly benefit from Executioner and many DK's like using Stampede to get into melee range (although chains could also solve this).

Sorc maybe, they do have the Energized class passive for 5% more physical damage. However they already get some Major Berserk uptime from the Storm Atro. I tend to build Stam Sorcs for early burst damage (infused jewelry, no bloodthirsty, which synergizes with Amplitude, Expert Mage and medium armor). That means both Wrecking Blow and Executioner are harder to justify.

Feels like 2h front bar may just be a Necro thing, but I could be wrong.

Durham

1. Are you suggesting range with less risk hit just as hard as melee with much greater risk? Range vs Melee is a fundimental basic consideration in PVP. If your Melee is weaker or the same, then there would never be any need to use melee! Range has the ability to use from wall and distance therefore the ability to get away. Gap closers are not the answer since most melee do not use gap closers today. I have not used a gap closer in a long time. But if you do gap close you are still at a greater risk!
2. Do you know that Wrecking blow has a short timer? This is not an instant cast ability! This justifies more damage with that simple fact.
3. Because it has a short timer getting it to actually connect around walls is crazy sometimes. If you your target is fast and moves out of target cone it will not go off or just not connect. Fighting a good player with Wrecking blow, yea good luck with that he will just kite the weapon style.
4. Do you know that in lag this ability can get stuck and not go off? Horrid in lag and very buggy! Again connecting is the problem.
5. Two hander right now lags behind duel wield. The execute in duel wield is much better then the two hander execute. Two hander is a niche weapon for melee atm. Duel wield is just a better alternative.

This ability has been nerf multiple times the current usable version is Dizzy Swing. Wreaking blow is currently a joke!
If you see someone using wrecking blow its not that hard to evade. If you are getting hit with wrecking blow i suggest you duel someone with wrecking blow and learn to better evade it. (hint; keep moving and put speed in your build)

Finedaible

As much as I am intrigued by this buff I feel like it may be a tad much to put Major Berserk on two-hander with no conditional proc. Yeah, it's only 10% compared to the 25% it used to be and it has a cast time, but most other sources of M Berserk up until now have had a condition to obtain it like using a synergy or getting a kill on a marked target. Which reminds me that Reaper's Mark is still an unattractive morph in anything but burning trash.

I also feel like two-hander has already been becoming more of a no-brainer over other weapons this last year too, especially with its sustain and damage. There are other skill lines which could use some help in my opinion.

Durham

"I also feel like two-hander has already been becoming more of a no-brainer over other weapons this last year too, especially with its sustain and damage. There are other skill lines which could use some help in my opinion."

DPS with two hander is horrid... its execute is very clunky at the moment. It has a timer on its anytime. Its master weapons are niche at best! (Rally is the only reason IMO) Duel wield has great master weapon, awsome excecute no dodgable! It also allows for better combinations for Weapon damage and penitration. It also has major evasion and speed

I see less people using two hander then duel wield and bow atm

ForumBully

Major Berserk on Wrecking is an appropriate buff on a lesser used morph...major Berserk on DK specifically is an unwarranted buff on an already S tier class.
I generally don't mind buffs and wish they happened more than nerfs...I'd just prefer they occasionally make sense, but I guess the spreadsheet says all is good with Templars and Sorcs