Templars?

MurkyWetWolf198

Yo, NB (PvE) and DK (PvP) main here.
I hear A LOT of people saying templar is dead in the water and feels like hot garbo rn.
Will someone experienced with the class elaborate on WHAT EXACTLY is so wrong about it.
I hear vague things about Jabs being weak, potl/purifying being weak and burning light being jank, but not got much else
PvE and PvP perspectives welcome

gariondavey

Read u35 and u36 patch notes for templar and it will be painfully obvious that the class is doo-doo right now

MurkyWetWolf198

gariondavey wrote: »

Read u35 and u36 patch notes for templar and it will be painfully obvious that the class is doo-doo right now

I have read them, but there's a huge difference between reading about something and experiencing it firsthand. The patch notes don't express where the class struggles, it only represents the literal changes to the abilities. It's difficult at best to extrapolate how the class functions with all of it's tools at once through just numbers alone

The_Titan_Tim

In-class burst through PoL is extremely low now as it caps at a much smaller value, sustained damage through Jabs is non-existent as we lost an entire spear thrust, and all of the jabs do less, without a reliable burning light proc at the end of landing all of your punctures.

Burning light does much less damage in general, but can proc off any damage and less frequently.

The_Titan_Tim

You’re better off running Dizzying Swing in PvP now instead of Jabs.

MurkyWetWolf198

numbers wise, jabs seems to deal as much damage as any other spammable. The base tooltip on ESO Hub is 919 x 3, or 2757 in total. That's actually slightly more than base Molten Whip or Concealed Weapon (2323). So why do jabs hit so much weaker? I understand that the bonuses of those skills are powerful, but that doesn't explain why Jabs are so weak. They still should have the raw damage to be at least functional according to the math. Hell, they should deal more damage than skulls, base frags, etc.. So what's missing?
Also, totally get the PotL issue, it could use a flat damage buff honestly

gariondavey

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Read u35 and u36 patch notes for templar and it will be painfully obvious that the class is doo-doo right now

I have read them, but there's a huge difference between reading about something and experiencing it firsthand. The patch notes don't express where the class struggles, it only represents the literal changes to the abilities. It's difficult at best to extrapolate how the class functions with all of it's tools at once through just numbers alone

As a templar main...it is painful.
Every templar I know who pvps is pretty depressed.

UnassumingNoob

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

numbers wise, jabs seems to deal as much damage as any other spammable. The base tooltip on ESO Hub is 919 x 3, or 2757 in total. That's actually slightly more than base Molten Whip or Concealed Weapon (2323). So why do jabs hit so much weaker? I understand that the bonuses of those skills are powerful, but that doesn't explain why Jabs are so weak. They still should have the raw damage to be at least functional according to the math. Hell, they should deal more damage than skulls, base frags, etc.. So what's missing?
Also, totally get the PotL issue, it could use a flat damage buff honestly

Evasion reduces the damage, the damage is easy to walk out of, it slows you down while doing it. Also single target cp boosts both LA and both the other spammables. So you get a small loss there too.

But the most important part is you can’t look at it in a vacuum. Templar has no burst ability, weak dots/pressure. I think Rangeplar is the only kind of work around atm.

YMMV.

The_Titan_Tim

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

numbers wise, jabs seems to deal as much damage as any other spammable. The base tooltip on ESO Hub is 919 x 3, or 2757 in total. That's actually slightly more than base Molten Whip or Concealed Weapon (2323). So why do jabs hit so much weaker? I understand that the bonuses of those skills are powerful, but that doesn't explain why Jabs are so weak. They still should have the raw damage to be at least functional according to the math. Hell, they should deal more damage than skulls, base frags, etc.. So what's missing?
Also, totally get the PotL issue, it could use a flat damage buff honestly

They don’t scale anywhere near as well, and like mentioned earlier, at any point throughout the attack a player can throw up block, or move out of the spears, now factor in the second “additional jab” that was lost to the ability, a guaranteed Burning Light proc at the end of connecting all the spears is now proc’ing whenever and for less damage, making it extraordinarily difficult to line up.

So the ability essentially lost two spear thrusts, and the damage was lowered, while yes you get an extra light attack every 2 casts, it’s not always guaranteed and is now hitting weaker than ever with the new light attack damage cap in place, as Templars are notorious for stacking spell damage.

maxjapank

gariondavey wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Read u35 and u36 patch notes for templar and it will be painfully obvious that the class is doo-doo right now

I have read them, but there's a huge difference between reading about something and experiencing it firsthand. The patch notes don't express where the class struggles, it only represents the literal changes to the abilities. It's difficult at best to extrapolate how the class functions with all of it's tools at once through just numbers alone

As a templar main...it is painful.
Every templar I know who pvps is pretty depressed.

This

UnassumingNoob wrote: »

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

numbers wise, jabs seems to deal as much damage as any other spammable. The base tooltip on ESO Hub is 919 x 3, or 2757 in total. That's actually slightly more than base Molten Whip or Concealed Weapon (2323). So why do jabs hit so much weaker? I understand that the bonuses of those skills are powerful, but that doesn't explain why Jabs are so weak. They still should have the raw damage to be at least functional according to the math. Hell, they should deal more damage than skulls, base frags, etc.. So what's missing?
Also, totally get the PotL issue, it could use a flat damage buff honestly

Evasion reduces the damage, the damage is easy to walk out of, it slows you down while doing it. Also single target cp boosts both LA and both the other spammables. So you get a small loss there too.

But the most important part is you can’t look at it in a vacuum. Templar has no burst ability, weak dots/pressure. I think Rangeplar is the only kind of work around atm.

YMMV.

And this.

And....unrelated to dmg, the jabs animation looks like you're attacking with a pool noodle.

Cast_El

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

Yo, NB (PvE) and DK (PvP) main here.
I hear A LOT of people saying templar is dead in the water and feels like hot garbo rn.
Will someone experienced with the class elaborate on WHAT EXACTLY is so wrong about it.
I hear vague things about Jabs being weak, potl/purifying being weak and burning light being jank, but not got much else
PvE and PvP perspectives welcome

I am talking about pvp against good players not noob:

In PvP, player take only one or two hit of jab because the snare doesn't work since U35. It's a channeled ability, so the damage is higher than a instant cast spammable, but like I said the snare nerf doesn't work anymore. Before that players took 4hits by one jab, so 🤔 one or two hit is too weak.
You can go full damage olorime+balorgh+clever and you still hit like a noodle. As templar you have to use 4 offensive set, whereas other classes can wear 1 or 2 defensive set and hit harder (DK for exemple).

Burning light was nerfed by 30% not sure about the exact number.

The power of the light: this was nerfed with U36. Now it deal damage based on the damage you deal during the active effect= it mean when you cast it you have to go full offensive to make damage and even so the damage is very bad. It hit for 2k-4k then it can hit for 6k-8k. Now as you can imagine you can't stay offensive for 6 seconds in most case scenario... So this skill is so bad right now.

To sum up: u35 destroyed jabs with the snare nerf and the 3hit instead of 4 hit.u36 destroyed burst delay templar skill.

notyuu

Simple

Jabs: Lost a hit, lost a chunk of damage, gained a new crud animation, mathmatically it might seem the same as any other spammable if you add up all the hits, and good luck landing more than 1 agsaint something that's paying attention, factor in the fact that it gets effected by evasion and it locks the user move and turn speed to about 70% of normal and it's just a stright up bad time to use, I mean come on, blazing shards does more dps than this.

Burning Light: Used to hit a fair bit harder and had no internal cooldown, meaning it works with jabs to provide a very hefty punch at the end of the spamable or actually dealing damage to people to avoid hits/run evasion, but now it's more verstile due to procing off any direct damage, sure, but the damage per proc is worse off and the procs are considerbly less consistant to get

PoTL: Is the single most variable damage burst in the entire game, before it was put in work, get big damage, now however it's put in hard work get comically bad damage, typically clocking in at ~5K damage for 6 seconds of stright up full damage output

Mix in the fact that the other templar skills range from sub-par to gimmick and templars offensive options are non-exsistant if you do not wish to be a beam bot, with defensive and support options not too far off from joining the offensive ones in the grave.

Source: 8018 hours playing templar

ZoS needs to do one of the following
1: Sell class change tokens
2: make trait/motif/style/recpie/blueprint knowledge account wide
3: Undo U36 and U37 changes to templar

ForumBully

MurkyWetWolf198 wrote: »

I hear vague things about Jabs being weak, potl/purifying being weak and burning light being jank, but not got much else
PvE and PvP perspectives welcome

You've got the answer right there. Jabs was reworked, it's clunky and weak. PotL is weak and burning light is weak...we've just described the Templar skill set and it's weak. That's the problem.

TechMaybeHic

As a templar; I'll go against the grain and say the jabs change for damage is really not that bad. Ugly. But it hits more per jab before but less total and I find if you miss 1 now by missing the 3rd, you had a good chance of missing both the 3rd and 4th poke before so your 2 actually hit harder.

What people are missing is when burning light only worked on spear abilities; not only did burning light hit harder by 25/30% (depending on if you're adding or subtracting) it procs 50% less than it did on jabs. So we are talking ab 80% reduction.

So while yes; jabs now match tooltip data, and burning light was often mentioned as being OP for extra damage; the disadvantage always existed with missed attacks, evasion reduction, AND; jabs is mitigated by TWO cp stars where most direct spammables are impacted by 1. And the AOE splash damage is really quite weak to draw such impact as it's more like splash damage

Another problem is the popularity of Maras Balm. Jabs applying a snare every .5 seconds makes it mitigated itself by Maras heal going off on cool down.


But the real problem is Backlash and it's morph Prophecy of the Light and Purifying Light. It used to fully require damage to target once applied to build it's delayed burst damage. It was changed to guarantee a minimum burst then scale the rest from damage to supposedly get close to it's total before. Sounds good to raise the floor. Tooltip makes it appear to be the case. In practice however; you get nowhere near in battle spirit enabled areas. Generally it winds up being 3k damage for anyone, and if you go full glass cannon, you might hit 5k on non-tanky targets. A far cry from other burst.

My suspicion is battle spirit is naccounted for in the damage copied AND the final explosion so it's getting double reduced. A problem they had with the original years ago, yet at that time; it copied allies damage as well at least.