Would Pre Murkmire shields be overpowered in today's climate?

AdamLAD

My argument is that back then people had way less damage, health, and resistance and healing . So yes, obviously a big ward with 49k max magicka would destroy a 24k hp player with little resistance and healing. Back then it was completely overpowered. However today, people are stacking up to 7k weapon damage, 35k HP and 30k+ resistance with huge healing. My argument is, is that old school pre murkmire shields would not be overpowered due to this, in today's climate. You couldn't just burst a 35k health, 30k resistance player now even with those mechanics. Those Wards would be significantly weaker in today's climate due to all the damage that's available compared to back then. However I do think it's would make magicka sorcerer good again and fun

jaws343

No

I don't think rolling back all of the Murkmire changes are even necessarily the move. I think that shields taking into account your resistances and taking critical hits is ok.

But, we've come a long, long way since the murkmire changes and what really needs to go is the health cap. Make shields only scale off max mag again. Maybe even off weapon/spell damage The health cap was fine at one point, although not really necessary even when it was implemented imo. But a number of things happened since implementation.

One of the biggest things that happened was the change to the CP system and alongside it the change the % based modifiers for max stats. Shields lost a ton of power layered with the health cap.

So, remove the health cap. But also, allow shields to crit. Or, maybe even make critting shields a sorc thing for the other morph of the sorc shield. Hardened Ward has an increased base value, but unable to crit. So you get a stable amount, and then make Empowered Ward able to crit, with a weaker base value.

I'd go one step further though. Remove shield reduction, entirely for every shield, from battlespirit. It's unnecessary.

selig_fay

Other

I think it's better if people don't overclock 7k(i think now 5k, but nm) w/s damage, 30k resist with a lot of healing at the same time. Then the barriers be useful xD

ForumBully

No

ZOS seems locked into the mindset that sorcs must stack resources to survive, since their defense requires a big mag (or now health, apparently) pool. Shields used to be an almost unbreakable defense when they were stacked without a cap, but that was a different world, damage wise. Nowadays, there are sets that outperform the mitigation/defense that those shields used to provide, and the sets do it without any need for a player to even do anything.

The shield buff on PTS isnt enough because it does nothing to change the fact that sorcs still need to stack rss and that leaves damage lagging behind everyone else stacking power, and any cap leaves defense lagging behind too.

If we have to keep stacking mag, I'm fine with that...it makes sorcs kind of unique, but make it effective again, please.

AdamLAD

No

There's a lot of different ways for them to make shields viable and strong again. Just on paper without testing on PTS I know through experience that 17% buff on one type of ward is simply still not good enough. Zenimax stated they do not want to have shield stack problem We had 5 years ago. That simply wouldn't be the case into today's environment. They are catering to players who found it frustrating 5 years ago at the expense of a class and the players who play it today

jaws343

No

AdamLAD wrote: »

There's a lot of different ways for them to make shields viable and strong again. Just on paper without testing on PTS I know through experience that 17% buff on one type of ward is simply still not good enough. Zenimax stated they do not want to have shield stack problem We had 5 years ago. That simply wouldn't be the case into today's environment. They are catering to players who found it frustrating 5 years ago at the expense of a class and the players who play it today

They could also avoid shield stacking by just making Annulment and Conjured Ward override one another. You cast either skill while the other is active and they replace one another. Sorcs would drop Annulment and only run the more powerful Conjured Ward. The only other stacking mechanic that would likely happen is Healing Ward, but that skill is already so unreliable that it probably wouldn't make a difference anyways.

jaws343

No

To add to that though, shield stacking imo was never a real thing to be concerned about. Shields die quickly, they died quickly pre-murkmire. A sorc that is spending time (and a ton of resources) maintaining a shield stack, is a sorc that is doing nothing but defense. A shield stacking sorc that is able to keep their shields up is pretty much not a threat. And it is no different that a sorc spamming one shield repeatedly while under pressure.

ForumBully

No

jaws343 wrote: »

To add to that though, shield stacking imo was never a real thing to be concerned about. Shields die quickly, they died quickly pre-murkmire. A sorc that is spending time (and a ton of resources) maintaining a shield stack, is a sorc that is doing nothing but defense. A shield stacking sorc that is able to keep their shields up is pretty much not a threat. And it is no different that a sorc spamming one shield repeatedly while under pressure.

Agreed, and even if it's a strong defense, it's a defense that the player is actively responsible for creating, which is more than can be said for the sets in the game today.

AdamLAD

No

Agreed. Takes 2 global cool downs and ALOT OF Magicka to stay alive. Meanwhile
others can go like 35k hp with 7k dmg, 30k resistance can take an initial beating before they need to go defensive.

katorga

No

Shields were breakable back then, but I do miss my old Blazing Shield Templar build.

Even pre-Murkmire block casting a burst heal was more efficient, and generated as much forum angst as shield stacking. I can instantly pre-empt any action, get a huge % damage mitigation and heal to full faster and more efficiently than I can shield and heal to full.

There are more bonuses to healing than to shielding, making it a better place to put your focus.

Healing scales from weapon/spell damage, which has more % increase bonuses than max mag or health. It is a two-fer, increasing your offense and defense at the same time. No tradeoffs.

Healing can crit.

Healing is essentially uncapped.