Suggestion: Targeted Loot

Bobargus

Hello everyone,

I would like to suggest getting the abilitiy "to choose whichever item that you would like to get from whichever activity (combat or non-combat) that you would like to do", instead of just "having to do a specific activity to get the specific item that is associated with only that activity".

In terms of the flexibility of this: personally, i would prefer everything to be earnable from any activity.

I also would love to know what you are thinking about this idea, so please feel free to add your thoughts as well, everyone.

If any of you would prefer to have a reference for something similar to have a better understanding of this idea, i was thinking about the targeted loot system of Division 2.

Thank you very much to all of you for reading my suggestion post. Have a lovely day.

Cooperharley

Other

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying, so let me ask - are you referring to let's say, doing a dungeon and being able to say "I want to get the Pillar of Nirn Dagger this run" and then essentially you are guaranteed to get it? If so, then I do not think so. I think curated loot was a FANTASTIC system that was implemented to make the game significantly less grindy, especially in dungeons, maelstrom arena, etc. The game is meant to have gameplay loops - that's what keeps people playing and makes getting the gear satisfying. If you were handed a specific piece of gear you want each time you want something, what's the point?

Bobargus

Yes

Jaustink wrote: »

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying, so let me ask - are you referring to let's say, doing a dungeon and being able to say "I want to get the Pillar of Nirn Dagger this run" and then essentially you are guaranteed to get it? If so, then I do not think so. I think curated loot was a FANTASTIC system that was implemented to make the game significantly less grindy, especially in dungeons, maelstrom arena, etc. The game is meant to have gameplay loops - that's what keeps people playing and makes getting the gear satisfying. If you were handed a specific piece of gear you want each time you want something, what's the point?

The point is to casualize the game, to give people the freedom to get whatever they wish to get while doing whatever they would like to; be it world bosses, dungeons, trials, pvp, antiquities, psijic portals, fishing, killing the weak overland enemy npcs, etc.

For example, i like roleplaying a khajiit whose sole purpose is to hunt dragons. But why should i be limited to getting the crafty alfiq set, for example, when i am trying to make a stamina build instead. I moreso would like to try getting the hulking draugr set, but it is locked in the direfrost keep dungeon.

But what if i just want to do world boss events with other players, or just do an alikr's desert dolmen run, or even just dig for treasures with the antiquity skill lines, or maybe just do some fishing?

This is what i was thinking.

Cooperharley

Other

FBS94 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying, so let me ask - are you referring to let's say, doing a dungeon and being able to say "I want to get the Pillar of Nirn Dagger this run" and then essentially you are guaranteed to get it? If so, then I do not think so. I think curated loot was a FANTASTIC system that was implemented to make the game significantly less grindy, especially in dungeons, maelstrom arena, etc. The game is meant to have gameplay loops - that's what keeps people playing and makes getting the gear satisfying. If you were handed a specific piece of gear you want each time you want something, what's the point?

The point is to casualize the game, to give people the freedom to get whatever they wish to get while doing whatever they would like to; be it world bosses, dungeons, trials, pvp, antiquities, psijic portals, fishing, killing the weak overland enemy npcs, etc.

For example, i like roleplaying a khajiit whose sole purpose is to hunt dragons. But why should i be limited to getting the crafty alfiq set, for example, when i am trying to make a stamina build instead. I moreso would like to try getting the hulking draugr set, but it is locked in the direfrost keep dungeon.

But what if i just want to do world boss events with other players, or just do an alikr's desert dolmen run, or even just dig for treasures with the antiquity skill lines, or maybe just do some fishing?

This is what i was thinking.

This would never work because it would trivialize the game. People would just spam delves or something to get end game trial gear? What would be the point of ever doing any difficult content. It's a risk reward & time-spent mechanic present in every game ever. Harder content more often than not = better gear. You killing a dragon with 30 other people shouldn't give you the same gear as progressing through vCR+3 with 11 friends night after night.

Bobargus

Yes

This would never work because it would trivialize the game. People would just spam delves or something to get end game trial gear? What would be the point of ever doing any difficult content. It's a risk reward & time-spent mechanic present in every game ever. Harder content more often than not = better gear. You killing a dragon with 30 other people shouldn't give you the same gear as progressing through vCR+3 with 11 friends night after night. [/quote]

Says you. Definitely not me. In terms of this, we can only agree to disagree.

Cooperharley

Other

FBS94 wrote: »

This would never work because it would trivialize the game. People would just spam delves or something to get end game trial gear? What would be the point of ever doing any difficult content. It's a risk reward & time-spent mechanic present in every game ever. Harder content more often than not = better gear. You killing a dragon with 30 other people shouldn't give you the same gear as progressing through vCR+3 with 11 friends night after night.

Says you. Definitely not me. In terms of this, we can only agree to disagree.
[/quote]

Fair enough! I'd love to hear of a game that has ever had a loot generator system like you're suggesting that's still running though.

Arunei

No

FBS94 wrote: »

Says you. Definitely not me. In terms of this, we can only agree to disagree.

But that's literally what would happen. Why would people run Trials or HM Vet Dungeons to get Gear, Skins, or other rewards, if they could just run a quick easy dungeon like FG and have a chance of getting it? Even if the drop rates were super low, it would still trivialize the harder content and fewer people would wind up bothering.

People already seem to have a hard time finding people for harder content, especially since a lot of people lost interest in stuff after the nerf wrecking ball that was u35. There is absolutely no reason to be able to get some of the best items in the game by doing the easiest content, and this is coming from someone who REALLY wants the Beast Personality but won't ever be able to get it because of numerous reasons.

It would also likely be a huge nightmare for the database in-game. Everything in the game would have to be on every single loot table, from mob drops to chests to mat nodes.

You also can't say that you want to know peoples' opinion on the matter but then immediately dismiss an opinion that doesn't match your own.

SpacemanSpiff1

No

it seems like it would just trivialize the game. sometimes it's okay to get out of your comfort zone.

Bobargus

Yes

But that's literally what would happen. Why would people run Trials or HM Vet Dungeons to get Gear, Skins, or other rewards, if they could just run a quick easy dungeon like FG and have a chance of getting it? Even if the drop rates were super low, it would still trivialize the harder content and fewer people would wind up bothering.

It would also likely be a huge nightmare for the database in-game. Everything in the game would have to be on every single loot table, from mob drops to chests to mat nodes.[/quote]

Maybe the chances of getting a specific item could be made to be varied, depending on it's nature and origin, in terms of using this targeted loot idea.

Cooperharley

Other

FBS94 wrote: »

But that's literally what would happen. Why would people run Trials or HM Vet Dungeons to get Gear, Skins, or other rewards, if they could just run a quick easy dungeon like FG and have a chance of getting it? Even if the drop rates were super low, it would still trivialize the harder content and fewer people would wind up bothering.

It would also likely be a huge nightmare for the database in-game. Everything in the game would have to be on every single loot table, from mob drops to chests to mat nodes.

Maybe the chances of getting a specific item could be made to be varied, depending on it's nature and origin, in terms of using this targeted loot idea.[/quote]

It sounds like you just don't want to run harder content, but want gear handed to you. I would recommend finding a guild or other players and stepping out of your comfort zone. ZOS created a variety of gameplay elements for a reason - to attract all sorts of players. It's cool that you're an overland person, but that's like saying you work at McDonald's and want a small chance with each paycheck to get paid like a CEO. It doesn't make any sense.

Dr_Con

An RNGesus system wouldn't break the game, but it would be best spent on focusing items like motifs

Heartrage

No

No

1-This would kill the game economy.

2-A part of what is fun about grinding is that you have a diversity of optimized grinds. This would literally make only one better grind for everything.

3-The UI for this and the implementation of the system would be a nightmare to design.

4-It discourage trying other contents.

5-It encourage repetitive and easy gameplay while making harder content a worst way to get stuff.

Bobargus

Yes

It sounds like you just don't want to run harder content, but want gear handed to you. I would recommend finding a guild or other players and stepping out of your comfort zone. ZOS created a variety of gameplay elements for a reason - to attract all sorts of players. It's cool that you're an overland person, but that's like saying you work at McDonald's and want a small chance with each paycheck to get paid like a CEO. It doesn't make any sense.[/quote]

In terms of playing a game, do everything have to make sense and have an order of things?

I mean for example, you would expect a dungeon to be originally done with staying loyal to the holy trinity roles of the game. And then come the fake tanks and healers who kill everything pretty much instantly, effectively casualizing and trivializing the content.

But that is beautiful to me, because i end up getting the same loot and rewards, and that is kind of important to me, just as much as doing the content immersively. Then again, if someone wants to do an activity in an immersive manner, perhaps there might be questing and pve guilds just for that purpose.

I digress. tl,dr: In my opinion, things don't always have to make sense for me to have fun in a game. Having the option to experience something in more than one way is a plus to me, especially if it ends up legally breaking the rules of it and creating an unusual experience. I heavily underline the word "legally" here, to keep people away from assuming that i support cheats and hacks (which i don't).

Arunei

No

FBS94 wrote: »

But that's literally what would happen. Why would people run Trials or HM Vet Dungeons to get Gear, Skins, or other rewards, if they could just run a quick easy dungeon like FG and have a chance of getting it? Even if the drop rates were super low, it would still trivialize the harder content and fewer people would wind up bothering.

It would also likely be a huge nightmare for the database in-game. Everything in the game would have to be on every single loot table, from mob drops to chests to mat nodes.

Maybe the chances of getting a specific item could be made to be varied, depending on it's nature and origin, in terms of using this targeted loot idea.[/quote]
There is literally no way you could implement this sort of system and it not trivialize the game's harder content, no matter how low or varied the drop rates are. Why should someone be able to get something like the Sunspire Ice-Fire Senche Mount (which requires a whole slew of difficult achievements to obtain) simply by harvesting mat nodes or mowing down Overland mobs?

I'm all for making rewards of harder content more accessible, but not in a way that absolutely trivializes the sources of those rewards. Make it so running the normal or even Vet versions of dungeons/trials 100 times unlocks the very small chance of getting these rewards, maybe even 200 or 300 times for the really hard to get rewards. The people who CAN run the harder content will find doing hundreds of easier runs too tedious and annoying, and the ones who can't do it still have to put in an effort that they CAN actually manage.

Bobargus

Yes

Dr_Con wrote: »

An RNGesus system wouldn't break the game, but it would be best spent on focusing items like motifs

Interesting enough, the way people react to the idea, i'd say they are thinking otherwise about an RNG loot system not breaking the game. Rather vehemently too, i think.

Pet

No

The % of votes speaks for itself. Go and do the content whether you enjoy it or not. Giving people gold perfected Relequen jewellery in a FG1 would be absolutely absurd for example. Just no.

I think honestly the game should give you loot based on a combination of what you're missing from your stickerbook + which role you completed the fight/s on. It's not like they don't know which sets are healer/mag dd/stam dd/tank. They put major aegis on 1 light and 1 heavy set per trial for example, and minor slayer on 1 light and 1 medium set. Make curated loot prefer the set for your role unless you have that set completed fully, imo.

Diminish

No

I'd like a perfected Yolnahkriin frost staff for training my mount. I like to just login and train my mounts. I also enjoy dancing drunk in the various taverns, I should be able to earn some perfected Whorl of the Depths for that because it is what I like to do. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

Danikat

FBS94 wrote: »

This would never work because it would trivialize the game. People would just spam delves or something to get end game trial gear? What would be the point of ever doing any difficult content. It's a risk reward & time-spent mechanic present in every game ever. Harder content more often than not = better gear. You killing a dragon with 30 other people shouldn't give you the same gear as progressing through vCR+3 with 11 friends night after night.

Says you. Definitely not me. In terms of this, we can only agree to disagree.

Your own examples are literally this:

FBS94 wrote: »

For example, i like roleplaying a khajiit whose sole purpose is to hunt dragons. But why should i be limited to getting the crafty alfiq set, for example, when i am trying to make a stamina build instead. I moreso would like to try getting the hulking draugr set, but it is locked in the direfrost keep dungeon.

But what if i just want to do world boss events with other players, or just do an alikr's desert dolmen run, or even just dig for treasures with the antiquity skill lines, or maybe just do some fishing?

You want a set that comes from a dungeon, but you don't want to do the dungeon and want it to drop from comparatively easy and quick open-world events instead.

It may not be used the same way by all players but the overall effect would be far fewer people doing harder or more time consuming parts of the game, and especially not repeating it more than once, because they won't get anything from it to make it seem worthwhile.

Maybe there could be a system where practical items are more widely available, for example re-balancing overworld sets so they're comparable to (or only slightly weaker than) dungeon and trial sets, but there would still need to be some unique rewards tied to dungeons, trials and other difficult areas so there's an incentive to do them. That would be similar to how Guild Wars 2 works, where top-tier equipment and all the stat combinations are available from 'casual' activities like crafting and open-world PvE, but (if you're able to complete them) it's quicker and cheaper to get it from harder activities like raids. Although raiders in that game are always complaining that not enough people don't want to raid.

Bobargus

Yes

Diminish wrote: »

I'd like a perfected Yolnahkriin frost staff for training my mount. I like to just login and train my mounts. I also enjoy dancing drunk in the various taverns, I should be able to earn some perfected Whorl of the Depths for that because it is what I like to do. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

It's absolutely, perfectly reasonable to me.

Do whatever you like and enjoy your time. And if it gets you what you desire, then it's all the better.

Diminish

No

FBS94 wrote: »

It's absolutely, perfectly reasonable to me.

Do whatever you like and enjoy your time. And if it gets you what you desire, then it's all the better.

You should absolutely not earn the same gear with minimal effort that a person organizing and grouping with 11 other players for some of the hardest content in the game are earning. End. Of. Story. If you want X gear, do Y content that it drops in. It is a simple system. Absolutely nothing needs to change with that. Anyone can lookup where, and how to earn anything they desire. They can than go put forth whatever effort is needed to obtain said gear/item. If they are unwilling to do so then in my opinion they don't need or deserve to have that gear over someone who did put forth the effort to obtain it. You are your own gatekeeper

Melivar

No

While there are times when drops suck and this would be cool I think it would shorten my overall enjoyment of playing the game if I just got everything I wanted doing whatever I wanted to do.

The curative drops helped a ton with the endless farm for things but there are things I don't bother with now that I have all the items from a zone or dungeon unless a guildie asks for help.

Arunei

No

FBS94 wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I'd like a perfected Yolnahkriin frost staff for training my mount. I like to just login and train my mounts. I also enjoy dancing drunk in the various taverns, I should be able to earn some perfected Whorl of the Depths for that because it is what I like to do. Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?

It's absolutely, perfectly reasonable to me.

Do whatever you like and enjoy your time. And if it gets you what you desire, then it's all the better.

If this sounds reasonable to you then ESO is not the game for you. If you think someone should get everything in the game handed to them for little to no effort, ESO is not the game for you. I'm genuinely not sure what the appeal is in playing something where you don't need to put in any real effort to get what you want. Things that are hard to get have a place just as much as things that are easy to get do.

Ragnarok0130

FBS94 wrote: »

Jaustink wrote: »

I'm not quite understanding what you're saying, so let me ask - are you referring to let's say, doing a dungeon and being able to say "I want to get the Pillar of Nirn Dagger this run" and then essentially you are guaranteed to get it? If so, then I do not think so. I think curated loot was a FANTASTIC system that was implemented to make the game significantly less grindy, especially in dungeons, maelstrom arena, etc. The game is meant to have gameplay loops - that's what keeps people playing and makes getting the gear satisfying. If you were handed a specific piece of gear you want each time you want something, what's the point?

The point is to casualize the game, to give people the freedom to get whatever they wish to get while doing whatever they would like to; be it world bosses, dungeons, trials, pvp, antiquities, psijic portals, fishing, killing the weak overland enemy npcs, etc..

The game is already over casualized, and if you continue to run content under the current system the curated drops will take care of you in the end.

CGPsaint

No

You can already farm most loot in the game by knowing what drops where.

Bobargus

Yes

If this sounds reasonable to you then ESO is not the game for you. If you think someone should get everything in the game handed to them for little to no effort, ESO is not the game for you. I'm genuinely not sure what the appeal is in playing something where you don't need to put in any real effort to get what you want. Things that are hard to get have a place just as much as things that are easy to get do.[/quote]

I'm sure the same thing was said about companions, daily login rewards, motifs - such as the sul-xan - that are originally from trials and being sold from the cown store, etc.

All those ideas must be against the idea of your "if you want something then work hard for it", but they are still implemented into the game for our amusement and entertainment.

As for things that are hard to get having a place in the game?

I have some words to share about that:

If an activity and it's reward is hard, if not impossible, to get for a casual player - such as the trials and the emperor status - then i think it is designed wrongly.

An mmorpg sacrificing it's accessibility for the appeal of competitive hardcore players is wasting it's potential.

Every time a major dlc comes out, i look at the trial (raid) activity that comes with it, and i can't help but feel that so much resource, time and effort must have been spent by the developers on it, and only for the kind of players who can bear the difficulty of it, and learn how to do it. And the worst part is that the initiative of learning how these contents are supposed to be done are left for the players to experience and find out, in a group setting. It feels forced way too much for me.

Bobargus

Yes

CGPsaint wrote: »

You can already farm most loot in the game by knowing what drops where.

Yes, but it is too tedious.

Heartrage

No

FBS94 wrote: »

If this sounds reasonable to you then ESO is not the game for you. If you think someone should get everything in the game handed to them for little to no effort, ESO is not the game for you. I'm genuinely not sure what the appeal is in playing something where you don't need to put in any real effort to get what you want. Things that are hard to get have a place just as much as things that are easy to get do.

I'm sure the same thing was said about companions, daily login rewards, motifs - such as the sul-xan - that are originally from trials and being sold from the cown store, etc.

All those ideas must be against the idea of your "if you want something then work hard for it", but they are still implemented into the game for our amusement and entertainment.

As for things that are hard to get having a place in the game?

I have some words to share about that:

If an activity and it's reward is hard, if not impossible, to get for a casual player - such as the trials and the emperor status - then i think it is designed wrongly.

An mmorpg sacrificing it's accessibility for the appeal of competitive hardcore players is wasting it's potential.

Every time a major dlc comes out, i look at the trial (raid) activity that comes with it, and i can't help but feel that so much resource, time and effort must have been spent by the developers on it, and only for the kind of players who can bear the difficulty of it, and learn how to do it. And the wors part is that the initiative of learning how these contents are supposed to be done are left for the players to experience and find out, in a group setting. It feels forced way too much for me.[/quote]

Every major dlc comes out with a whole casual-friendly overland zone. Not only that, the most recent dlcs have added companions to make it even easier for the casuals and a card game that is very casual friendly. Zos even added a mythic item that removes the need to self buff and swap weapons. Saying that eso sacrifice it’s accessibility because it’s providing some content for it’s most hardcore players is just wrong when they put so much effort making content for the casuals.

Bobargus

Yes

Every major dlc comes out with a whole casual-friendly overland zone. Not only that, the most recent dlcs have added companions to make it even easier for the casuals and a card game that is very casual friendly. Zos even added a mythic item that removes the need to self buff and swap weapons. Saying that eso sacrifice it’s accessibility because it’s providing some content for it’s most hardcore players is just wrong when they put so much effort making content for the casuals.
[/quote]

I don't know. I feel like we are all paying money for the same content, and yet only those who can "do more than usual" get to experience all the things this game can offer. I don't like it.

Heartrage

No

FBS94 wrote: »

Every major dlc comes out with a whole casual-friendly overland zone. Not only that, the most recent dlcs have added companions to make it even easier for the casuals and a card game that is very casual friendly. Zos even added a mythic item that removes the need to self buff and swap weapons. Saying that eso sacrifice it’s accessibility because it’s providing some content for it’s most hardcore players is just wrong when they put so much effort making content for the casuals.

I don't know. I feel like we are all paying money for the same content, and yet only those who can "do more than usual" get to experience all the things this game can offer. I don't like it.
[/quote]

And hardcore players that don’t care about companions and overland content still had to pay for them to access the trial they cared about. Because someone can do more doesn’t mean that they want to do everything they paid for.

VaranisArano

So I would be able to get Trials gear without doing Trials?

No thanks.

If you want the rewards that come from certain content, do the content.

If you want the rewards from content without doing the content, log onto the PTS and play around with a template character. It's progress will get wiped in a week or two, but it should help fill that instant gratification itch.

Dr_Con

FBS94 wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

An RNGesus system wouldn't break the game, but it would be best spent on focusing items like motifs

Interesting enough, the way people react to the idea, i'd say they are thinking otherwise about an RNG loot system not breaking the game. Rather vehemently too, i think.

(This reply is not necessarily directed toward you)

There's a finite number of times you can run an encounter before you get all loot inside of dungeons with the exception of motifs and leads due to loot curation. This number can be sped up by group members giving you items you don't have in your sticker book, and technically this speeds the curation system up- making an RNGesus system for getting a specific item useless (Unless you can check that you want a specific trait such as divines, well-fitted, or impenetrable armor, or higher quality (yellow) armor).

I only see this sort of system being successful for motifs, leads, and maybe trait or chance drops of increasing quality. Literally no one should be opposed to this because it only adds to the game instead of taking away.