Mara's balm still untouched

Red99

it's a joke?

Volckodav

the real one is when it can clean oblivion's effect

Sergykid

seaserpent and rallycry are more pressing to get fixed though, but yes also maras is a problem still, but instead this one has a niche where u need to have effects expire on u and those to be short effects like status effects

so no it's not a joke since worse are untouched, all is intended

ForumBully

Those awesome AoE pulls every few seconds are still around too...but with Harmony gone maybe it's not so bad.

fred4

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

acastanza_ESO

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

That is my bet as well. We'll have to see if it can do the job, I suspect that Mara's will still outheal it, but maybe it'll be enough to push them into actually killable range. I doubt it though.

React

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

Why are we adding broken sets to counter other broken sets though? That is such bad game design, and will lead to unnecessary balance issues down the road.

Mara's undoubtedly still needs an adjustment. I'd like to see either the burst heal removed from the purge, or the purge CD extended to 30 seconds. Either would be fine to bring it to a reasonable power level.

OBJnoob

I don't think it is specifically a counter to maras, but nevertheless would be the antithesis of it. It seems to be a way to combat healing in general, especially HoTs, and that has been asked for quite a lot.

There is also a new penetration set that gets stronger when being blocked repeatedly.

I think these two sets are probably the only good changes-- I'd prefer to keep them. If they're too strong then hopefully they'll be adjusted but not removed... Both effects are badly needed.

fred4

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

That is my bet as well. We'll have to see if it can do the job, I suspect that Mara's will still outheal it, but maybe it'll be enough to push them into actually killable range. I doubt it though.

2.8K Oblivion damage is harsh. What is that after Battlespirit? Does it get halved? Mara's ongoing heals are below 1K in real terms. It will outdamage that. It will severly punish every little heal you eke out. Vigor. Siphoning Attacks. Living Trellis. Swallow Soul. Sweeps. Burning Embers. Enchants, potentially. Many classes have small heals every second or every other second. That's how you want to build. Especially if your class doesn't have a purge and your're not wearing Mara, you want to offset at least some DOT damage. I know DOTs are weak in general, but their long duration makes them more stackable than in the past, if you can't purge. Not all of them are weak either. Master DW DOTs are not and status effects are actually slightly stronger than generic DOTs.

Sloads was a big deal when it was introduced. Then it got nerfed. Nowadays it deals 3% of your health every second. That's 900 tooltip damage against a typical 30K health PvP build. Snake in the Stars has a 2.8K Oblivion damage tooltip. That is nasty, even if targets only heal every 2s. You can easily have little heals more often than that.

Snake in the Stars says it has 50% uptime. It doesn't say whether that is for the attacker or for the target. It can't be doubled up, but it sounds to me like 2 players wearing Snake can achieve 100% uptime on a target.

React

fred4 wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

That is my bet as well. We'll have to see if it can do the job, I suspect that Mara's will still outheal it, but maybe it'll be enough to push them into actually killable range. I doubt it though.

2.8K Oblivion damage is harsh. What is that after Battlespirit? Does it get halved? Mara's ongoing heals are below 1K in real terms. It will outdamage that. It will severly punish every little heal you eke out. Vigor. Siphoning Attacks. Living Trellis. Swallow Soul. Sweeps. Burning Embers. Enchants, potentially. Many classes have small heals every second or every other second. That's how you want to build. Especially if your class doesn't have a purge and your're not wearing Mara, you want to offset at least some DOT damage. I know DOTs are weak in general, but their long duration makes them more stackable than in the past, if you can't purge. Not all of them are weak either. Master DW DOTs are not and status effects are actually slightly stronger than generic DOTs.

Sloads was a big deal when it was introduced. Then it got nerfed. Nowadays it deals 3% of your health every second. That's 900 tooltip damage against a typical 30K health PvP build. Snake in the Stars has a 2.8K Oblivion damage tooltip. That is nasty, even if targets only heal every 2s. You can easily have little heals more often than that.

Snake in the Stars says it has 50% uptime. It doesn't say whether that is for the attacker or for the target. It can't be doubled up, but it sounds to me like 2 players wearing Snake can achieve 100% uptime on a target.

It can have 100% uptime if two people wearing it are hitting you. It doesn't stack, but if player A's proc expires, player B's proc can instantly proc for 100% uptime.

It is not halved in PVP. It will always tick for 2885 damage.

Adernath

I have tested this set and yes, I agree it requires a nerf. Its obvious to everyone basically.

fred4

React wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

Why are we adding broken sets to counter other broken sets though?

Beats me. I wasn't endorsing it. I also think that, while Mara may be overkill on, perhaps, a tanky warden that already has good healing and a purge skill, it is masking healing issues on other classes and only making them viable, such as sorc. I guess you're going to say "fix sorc". At any rate, I'm with you on not making things even more complicated in this case.

sunshineflame

Buff mara's

Adernath

What I dont understand is: Don't they have some quality check before they dish out these sets? Every new patch messes up PvP, literally...

I really wish there would be a clean limited selection of sets for PvP and that's it. Disable PvE sets altogether in PvP, perhaps reduce the sets available for PvP, and make everything better balanced. PvP should be more skill-focused. It might even help reduce lag, who knows.

fred4

Adernath wrote: »

I really wish there would be a clean limited selection of sets for PvP and that's it.

Well, it is a Rewards for the Worthy set .

Adernath wrote: »

Don't they have some quality check before they dish out these sets?

Pleased to meet you! How long have you been around anyway?

Adernath

fred4 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

I really wish there would be a clean limited selection of sets for PvP and that's it.

Well, it is a Rewards for the Worthy set .

I meant the status of sets in PvP in general. Above, a mythic item was mentioned, for example.

fred4 wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Don't they have some quality check before they dish out these sets?

Pleased to meet you! How long have you been around anyway?

Check it ;-) My critics is not new, of course. But as long as there is no improvement, it will be repeated.

monkiie

maras balm should be removed. No set should cleanse every negative effect let alone heal and have a short cooldown.

MetallicMonk

They have some weird ego where things they come up with no matter how bad the ideas are, must be forced into the game and onto the players.

A giant portion of the community pushed back on mara's when they were first bringing it into the game and they still put it in anyways.

PhoenixGrey

Sergykid wrote: »

seaserpent and rallycry are more pressing to get fixed though, but yes also maras is a problem still, but instead this one has a niche where u need to have effects expire on u and those to be short effects like status effects

so no it's not a joke since worse are untouched, all is intended

Rallying cry is a problem because we are all ok for 15k incaps and 30k spectral bows

selig_fay

Just add a 30 second cd and give +100% negative effects duration and end this set. You can also make netch an ability with a 2 second cast time and a 1 minute action. I will only be happy with this in pve. Well, maybe only the tanks won't be happy, because cast time = no block. But, we just need to remove the netch spam, as I understand it, because this is a problem. I do not believe that the normal operation of the ability as the removal of one negative effect every 5 seconds is a big problem in pvp.

Red99

The juggernaut set has a burst heal + armor for 15 seconds but has 1 minute cooldown, mara's has burst heal, hot, + purge with 15 seconds cooldown

birdik

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

seaserpent and rallycry are more pressing to get fixed though, but yes also maras is a problem still, but instead this one has a niche where u need to have effects expire on u and those to be short effects like status effects

so no it's not a joke since worse are untouched, all is intended

Rallying cry is a problem because we are all ok for 15k incaps and 30k spectral bows

You meant 150k and 300k?

Tommy_The_Gun

fred4 wrote: »

I reckon that new set that deals damage whenever you heal is meant to be the counter to Mara's.

The thing I am curious about is what will proc the Oblivion Damage. It depends how it will be coded. The tooltip states that every heal should proc it... So if it will be "lazy coded" and won't have some hidden conditions, then it will be super ultra mega even more broken.

For instance - we have proc sets that heal you. Sets like Almalexia's Mercy or Grace of Gloom heal you when you take damage... but despite the tooltip saying so, not all types of damage proc it. Fall damage, Equilibrium or Malevolent Offering for example won't proc those sets, despite the tooltip saying that proc condition is "taking damage". This means that those sets have some additional proc condition coded.

I am simply afraid that this new set may proc off every possible healing source. Imagine for example if it will proc off healing proc sets. We have this rule that "proc sets cannot proc other proc sets" - but I have my doubts...

selig_fay

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I am simply afraid that this new set may proc off every possible healing source. Imagine for example if it will proc off healing proc sets. We have this rule that "proc sets cannot proc other proc sets" - but I have my doubts...

But if I understand correctly, all proc sets with debuffs activate mara.)

godchucknzilla

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

seaserpent and rallycry are more pressing to get fixed though, but yes also maras is a problem still, but instead this one has a niche where u need to have effects expire on u and those to be short effects like status effects

so no it's not a joke since worse are untouched, all is intended

Rallying cry is a problem because we are all ok for 15k incaps and 30k spectral bows

The 300 wd from rallying cry doesn't cause that 30k spectral bows, but it does make the night blade a little too Tanky in pvp.

OBJnoob

My NB wears rallying cry. I'm a terrible NB... It took me like two days (3 hours total time played, roughly,) to hit a 26k spec bow.

It's not hard on a NB to hit that hard. It is, in fact, way too easy. And in open world it's easy enough to land.

Idinuse

Red99 wrote: »

it's a joke?

Next step is only slotable by DKs. Oh wait, they don't even need it...

acastanza_ESO

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

We have this rule that "proc sets cannot proc other proc sets" - but I have my doubts...

This is a misunderstanding of "procs can't proc procs", when they say this they mean that a set that has a proc condition for "dealing damage" won't be proc'ed if another proc set that you're wearing deals damage as its proc effect.

So, for example, if I'm wearing (to put together a stupid example) Dark convergence and Pillar of Nirn, The damage dealt by Dark Convergence won't proc Pillar of Nirn's damage proc.

Someone else applying a proc set's effect is not the same - the set has already proc'ed based on a player's action. It is now an applied debuff that is being triggered - not a proc.
If your proc set does something that trigger's the conditions of the effect that was already proc'ed on your, that is not a "proc, procing a proc". We already know that the purge on Mara's triggers the conditions of the plague infected debuff (from Plaguebreak), this will be no different.

Waugh

This set is really cheating and against DK too easily. Either you give us the dowries as they were before or or add you from the CD and delete the Heal ...

Red99

I think with a cooldown of 25-30 seconds this set would be balanced