Do you actually enjoy the light/heavy attack weaving mechanic within ESO's combat system?

Danikat

I like having the option to do light and heavy attacks manually, I don't really understand weaving except to know I don't do it properly. I do interspace light and heavy attacks between using skills, but I don't time it to cancel animations or anything like that. For the areas of the game I play I don't need to know that.

pelle412

Yes

I like it because it makes combat a lot more engaging. It is one of the key differentiators for MMO game combat. Without it, combat would be the same as many other games out there and the edge that ESO has right now would diminish.

Varana

Yes

Danikat wrote: »

I like having the option to do light and heavy attacks manually, I don't really understand weaving except to know I don't do it properly. I do interspace light and heavy attacks between using skills, but I don't time it to cancel animations or anything like that. For the areas of the game I play I don't need to know that.

Weaving is exactly what you described - interspersing light attacks between skills. Attack - skill. Attack - skill. Attack - skill.

Sometimes, that can lead to animations getting "cancelled" (i.e. not playing out fully). But not necessarily. If the skill animation is short enough, or you weave slowly enough, you can weave skills and LAs without cancelling anything.

Weaving and animation cancelling are not synonymous, and one works without the other.

Many players also cancel animations entirely unintentional - on their end, by reacting to some threat in combat. When something's going to hit you, no one waits until their skill animation has finished before they block or dodgeroll. They press the button, and they immediately evade or block, cutting any skill animation short. (Same works with bar-swapping.) And that is entirely intentional - on the developers' side.

Stinkyremy

Yes

I hit yes by accident but as you may already know, weaving is an UNINTENDED ENGINE BUG, that now, they "embrace" as an intended mechanic.
They can never get rid of it but even on the PTS now they are trying to nerf weaving so much as to make it negligible.
If they manage to nerf it, I might start actually doing a DPS role.

lemonizzle

Yes

Light attacks between each skill for extra damage - nothing wrong with it on paper. The problems come when it does not fire how it should, regardless if the game is acting up, your internet or it's a "skill issue". Combine this with the high potential damage you are missing when you can't weave fast enough plus animation canceling (which shouldn't exist) and there is a flawed system that is still better than the alternative (longer global cooldowns, restriction on skill use, no heavy/light attacks etc).

MidniteOwl1913

No

Shihp00 wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

When I first started playing my daughter set up the game for me and talked about the basics. She mentioned light weaving as a tool to get more damage by canceling the animations. I told her that sounded like a bug and shouldn't they have fixed it by now. Made the skills and the animations sync without having jump thru hoops to make them match up. She gave me this look and said no, it was part of the game now.

Now of course I get it. It is part of the game. But if you step back and think about it it is odd to have a cludge to get around the lack of syncing animations become a core part of the game. It doesn't actually add anything. It's just an awkward accommodation.

your daughtar gave u the 'git gud' look

No. She plays the game for the questing for the puzzle solving for the crafting. For those things that require thought. So it's not likely she would tell me to practice a purely mechanical skill with limited usefulness. Further, she's not a software engineer and lacks the context to understand the sheer irony of a user elevating a bug to such a degree that they would rebel if was fixed. Oh if all my bugs were so revered... ;-)

Shihp00

Yes

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Shihp00 wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

When I first started playing my daughter set up the game for me and talked about the basics. She mentioned light weaving as a tool to get more damage by canceling the animations. I told her that sounded like a bug and shouldn't they have fixed it by now. Made the skills and the animations sync without having jump thru hoops to make them match up. She gave me this look and said no, it was part of the game now.

Now of course I get it. It is part of the game. But if you step back and think about it it is odd to have a cludge to get around the lack of syncing animations become a core part of the game. It doesn't actually add anything. It's just an awkward accommodation.

your daughtar gave u the 'git gud' look

No. She plays the game for the questing for the puzzle solving for the crafting. For those things that require thought. So it's not likely she would tell me to practice a purely mechanical skill with limited usefulness. Further, she's not a software engineer and lacks the context to understand the sheer irony of a user elevating a bug to such a degree that they would rebel if was fixed. Oh if all my bugs were so revered... ;-)

i'd disown my daughtar if she couldn't weave

Malthorne

No

I can light weave just fine, but that doesn’t mean I enjoy it. It was certainly an unintended “feature” at launch before eventually being embraced by ZOS completing the cycle of bug to feature.

danno8

No

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

I strongly disagree with this. Regardless of the intentions at launch, ESO has doubled down on LA weaving many times over the years. They have certainly adjusted animations to make it look more fluid. With a good connection and good FPS, LA weaving looks very fluid to me, as if the character is quickly going from LA to Skill (AKA, they are weaving LAs in to their skills). LA weaving barely constitutes AC unless your connection, FPS is really bad.

If you want to talk animation canceling, the three biggest culprits are Block, Dodge and Bar Swap (by a freaking mile). They have nothing to do with weaving, but certainly they clip animations. Yes good players can exploit those mechanics for max DPS (especially swap cancelling), but if you removed any of these abilities, combat would become very clunky and you would have almost no ability to react to changes during combat. It would make PVP unplayable if removed. Nearly everyone in ESO does these to some degree without even realizing it. If you want to know what it would be like to remove swap cancelling, try to cast a skill on your back bar after hard casting Crystal Frags and call me in the morning. Want to wait until your skill plays its animation before you can block or dodge roll? LOL, there would be dead potatoes everywhere.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt AC. The biggest culprit of AC in a standard parse is Bar Swap Cancelling, but its 100% necessary to allow combat to feel smooth and maintain the 1 second Global Cooldown.

I disagree (obviously). When you use a LA and then clip the animation with a slotted skill, that is animation cancelling. We have just given it a different name "LA Weaving" so everyone knows which mechanic of Animation Cancelling we are talking about. As you say, there are others.

It literally cancels the follow through animation of the LA. My connections are perfect, my FPS are buttery smooth in the hundreds. It doesn't change the fact that the flow from the clipped LA animation to a skill causes a strange nearly unregognizable animation where your characters are doing something but unless you knew there was a LA going on in there, from an outside player perspective you would wonder why the characters arm are juttering every second.

Semantics aside, I did say it should stay, I just think it looks bad.

Rev Rielle

No

nuttytom wrote: »

...

zos have literally said themselves that weaving is a feature and they like it

I believe one of their original quotes in their stream years ago was;

"It's... kind of cool"

Basically it was an untended (which they acknowledged) mechanic that they couldn't fix/adjust, so have learnt to accept and (mostly) deal with. Something we have basically had to do too as a player base, for better or worse. It's objectively - and certainly visually - silly, almost everyone knows it is (it seems the single biggest criticism on almost every external forum when speaking about ESO), but it's in the game and not going anywhere.

For me personally, it just looks utterly ridiculous. Which is a shame as it's a very poor advertisement for an otherwise pretty game.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

danno8 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

I strongly disagree with this. Regardless of the intentions at launch, ESO has doubled down on LA weaving many times over the years. They have certainly adjusted animations to make it look more fluid. With a good connection and good FPS, LA weaving looks very fluid to me, as if the character is quickly going from LA to Skill (AKA, they are weaving LAs in to their skills). LA weaving barely constitutes AC unless your connection, FPS is really bad.

If you want to talk animation canceling, the three biggest culprits are Block, Dodge and Bar Swap (by a freaking mile). They have nothing to do with weaving, but certainly they clip animations. Yes good players can exploit those mechanics for max DPS (especially swap cancelling), but if you removed any of these abilities, combat would become very clunky and you would have almost no ability to react to changes during combat. It would make PVP unplayable if removed. Nearly everyone in ESO does these to some degree without even realizing it. If you want to know what it would be like to remove swap cancelling, try to cast a skill on your back bar after hard casting Crystal Frags and call me in the morning. Want to wait until your skill plays its animation before you can block or dodge roll? LOL, there would be dead potatoes everywhere.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt AC. The biggest culprit of AC in a standard parse is Bar Swap Cancelling, but its 100% necessary to allow combat to feel smooth and maintain the 1 second Global Cooldown.

I disagree (obviously). When you use a LA and then clip the animation with a slotted skill, that is animation cancelling. We have just given it a different name "LA Weaving" so everyone knows which mechanic of Animation Cancelling we are talking about. As you say, there are others.

It literally cancels the follow through animation of the LA. My connections are perfect, my FPS are buttery smooth in the hundreds. It doesn't change the fact that the flow from the clipped LA animation to a skill causes a strange nearly unregognizable animation where your characters are doing something but unless you knew there was a LA going on in there, from an outside player perspective you would wonder why the characters arm are juttering every second.

Semantics aside, I did say it should stay, I just think it looks bad.

I also disagree (obviously )

Lets take a fire staff for example. You start with your arm behind you slightly, your staff hangs downwards at lets call it a 30 degree angle.

-If I just press light attack, my arm quickly jabs forward, the fire ball leaves the staff, then my right arm lazily returns to its resting position.

-If I try to do consecutive light attacks. My arm Jabs forward, shoots a fire ball, comes back slightly than abruptly jabs forward again, and a second fire ball fires. It never returns to that resting position between the two. Would you call this animation cancelling? I don't think I would, and I dont think most people would. It is also far less fluid then the next example.

-Now lets say I do a light attack into a classic spammable like swallow soul on a nightblade. I start at rest with my right arm slightly back, my arm jabs forward and the fire ball fires (exactly like a standard light attack), it then returns all the way to the rest position, and while my right arm is pulling back wards, my left hand goes forward and the skill animation plays from my left hand. My left hand then retracts as my right hand goes forward again for the next light attack, and on and on it goes. Its like watching a martial artist punch right hand, left hand, right hand left hand. There is no clipping here whatsover. The light attack flows very fluidly right into the ability and back again. The animations appear to "weave" together, but there is nothing choppy about it.

I just don't see how this constitutes animation canceling. I also think we need a little common sense as to when the light attack really is over. I would argue its when the fire ball leaves the staff or when the sword makes contact with the opponent. Its silly to think I would need to come all the way back to my rest position before I could do anything else, nobody fights that way in RL or any game I have played. Lets say I shoot a fire ball from my staff and then am immediately knocked to the ground, that fire ball is on its way whether or not I get back to my starting position.

Now on the other side of things, with bar swap, block or dodge, you can certainly clip some of the skill animation. I can go Swallow Soul into a bar swap or dodge, you barely see your left hand move and the skill animation almost seems to shoot out of your chest. This is 100% animation canceling, but it does not speed up your ability to cast skills (there is no way around the GCD). Bar swap canceling is necessary to a dynamic DPS rotation, and yes it clips animation slightly, but the alternative (think trying to bar swap after a hard cast crystal frags) feels extremely clunky. If you couldn't block or dodge cancel, your ability to react to damage would be extremely hindered, so again, its 100% necessary for dynamic and reactive combat.

Certainly not every animation flows as well as swallow soul, but for the most part they do and ZOS has made an effort to make them flow smoothly. I am also perhaps jaded running at 3440x1440 @144 FPS with ping of about 65, and admittedly, I have seen vids of people doing parses with bad framerate and it looks choppy, but I would expect things to look choppy with high ping and low FPS.

Bashev

No

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I am sure the forum will lean yes but average player who never uses the forums would lean no.

Or whoever does not like that already left the game and says: "ESO is a nice mmorpg and has a lot of potential but the combat sucks".

Amottica

Yes

I enjoy the combat in ESO has to be a yes. Glad we have more active combat compared to the other games I have played.

SeaGtGruff

There should be an "Other" option.

I think it's good to keep in mind that (as I understand it) the whole "weaving" and "rotation" thing that everyone makes a big deal about was not something that ZOS intentionally designed into the game, but was something that the players themselves came up with to capitalize on animation canceling and increase their DPS.

A lot of players complain about how ZOS doesn't give new players any proper combat tutorials to teach them about weaving and rotations and so forth (such as using bar swapping to expand your rotation or whatever), but those things didn't even come from ZOS, they came from players who sat down and analyzed everything and figured out ways to exploit the game's mechanisms to maximum advantage.

That's why you will sometimes hear certain players making derogatory remarks such as "The devs don't even know how to play their own game."

In any game, be it a single-player game or MMO, there is always a group of players who analyze every nitty-gritty detail of how the game works and figures out creative ways to exploit every exploitable mechanism or quirk. ESO is no different.

danno8

No

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

I strongly disagree with this. Regardless of the intentions at launch, ESO has doubled down on LA weaving many times over the years. They have certainly adjusted animations to make it look more fluid. With a good connection and good FPS, LA weaving looks very fluid to me, as if the character is quickly going from LA to Skill (AKA, they are weaving LAs in to their skills). LA weaving barely constitutes AC unless your connection, FPS is really bad.

If you want to talk animation canceling, the three biggest culprits are Block, Dodge and Bar Swap (by a freaking mile). They have nothing to do with weaving, but certainly they clip animations. Yes good players can exploit those mechanics for max DPS (especially swap cancelling), but if you removed any of these abilities, combat would become very clunky and you would have almost no ability to react to changes during combat. It would make PVP unplayable if removed. Nearly everyone in ESO does these to some degree without even realizing it. If you want to know what it would be like to remove swap cancelling, try to cast a skill on your back bar after hard casting Crystal Frags and call me in the morning. Want to wait until your skill plays its animation before you can block or dodge roll? LOL, there would be dead potatoes everywhere.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt AC. The biggest culprit of AC in a standard parse is Bar Swap Cancelling, but its 100% necessary to allow combat to feel smooth and maintain the 1 second Global Cooldown.

I disagree (obviously). When you use a LA and then clip the animation with a slotted skill, that is animation cancelling. We have just given it a different name "LA Weaving" so everyone knows which mechanic of Animation Cancelling we are talking about. As you say, there are others.

It literally cancels the follow through animation of the LA. My connections are perfect, my FPS are buttery smooth in the hundreds. It doesn't change the fact that the flow from the clipped LA animation to a skill causes a strange nearly unregognizable animation where your characters are doing something but unless you knew there was a LA going on in there, from an outside player perspective you would wonder why the characters arm are juttering every second.

Semantics aside, I did say it should stay, I just think it looks bad.

I also disagree (obviously )

Lets take a fire staff for example. You start with your arm behind you slightly, your staff hangs downwards at lets call it a 30 degree angle.

-If I just press light attack, my arm quickly jabs forward, the fire ball leaves the staff, then my right arm lazily returns to its resting position.

-If I try to do consecutive light attacks. My arm Jabs forward, shoots a fire ball, comes back slightly than abruptly jabs forward again, and a second fire ball fires. It never returns to that resting position between the two. Would you call this animation cancelling? I don't think I would, and I dont think most people would. It is also far less fluid then the next example.

-Now lets say I do a light attack into a classic spammable like swallow soul on a nightblade. I start at rest with my right arm slightly back, my arm jabs forward and the fire ball fires (exactly like a standard light attack), it then returns all the way to the rest position, and while my right arm is pulling back wards, my left hand goes forward and the skill animation plays from my left hand. My left hand then retracts as my right hand goes forward again for the next light attack, and on and on it goes. Its like watching a martial artist punch right hand, left hand, right hand left hand. There is no clipping here whatsover. The light attack flows very fluidly right into the ability and back again. The animations appear to "weave" together, but there is nothing choppy about it.

I just don't see how this constitutes animation canceling. I also think we need a little common sense as to when the light attack really is over. I would argue its when the fire ball leaves the staff or when the sword makes contact with the opponent. Its silly to think I would need to come all the way back to my rest position before I could do anything else, nobody fights that way in RL or any game I have played. Lets say I shoot a fire ball from my staff and then am immediately knocked to the ground, that fire ball is on its way whether or not I get back to my starting position.

Now on the other side of things, with bar swap, block or dodge, you can certainly clip some of the skill animation. I can go Swallow Soul into a bar swap or dodge, you barely see your left hand move and the skill animation almost seems to shoot out of your chest. This is 100% animation canceling, but it does not speed up your ability to cast skills (there is no way around the GCD). Bar swap canceling is necessary to a dynamic DPS rotation, and yes it clips animation slightly, but the alternative (think trying to bar swap after a hard cast crystal frags) feels extremely clunky. If you couldn't block or dodge cancel, your ability to react to damage would be extremely hindered, so again, its 100% necessary for dynamic and reactive combat.

Certainly not every animation flows as well as swallow soul, but for the most part they do and ZOS has made an effort to make them flow smoothly. I am also perhaps jaded running at 3440x1440 @144 FPS with ping of about 65, and admittedly, I have seen vids of people doing parses with bad framerate and it looks choppy, but I would expect things to look choppy with high ping and low FPS.

I agree that Staff and Swallow Soul is definitely one of the better combinations. But now try Dual Wield and Jabs. It looks terrible.

I think we have different aesthetic preferences. From what I recall you didn't mind the new Jabs animation whereas I though it looked pretty bad once I got down to using it.

I really, really understand block cancelling, dodge cancelling and bar swap cancelling, there is no need to explain it to me. I also understand the need for animation cancelling in this game. Responsiveness trumps everything when you need to use active combat.

I still think LA weaving is a function of animation cancelling, because as in the case of stuff like Jabs and Dual Wield you don't even see the downswing of the dual wield attack. The weapons just vanish and Jabs just begins. Yes Staff+Swallow is better. In fact Staff + anything looks better overall.

The question was "Do you enjoy LA weaving" and my answer is still "no" because it looks bad. You think it looks good. That's fine. I do not advocate getting rid of it.

AltanasAExcalibur

No

No, but I also see how boring and less immersive the game would be with an auto attack system.

Pixiepumpkin

No

I do not like light attack weaving/animation cancelling as it is uncomfortable for me to use. The constant key press then mouse press, then key press loop is tiresome, I don't find it engaging at all and it hurts my hands.

propertyOfUndefined

No

It's always felt like a bug to me, which the devs eventually called a "feature".

I'll also add that I think it's the biggest barrier to entry for most players. Through the years, I've gotten many of my friends to play the game, but none of them really stuck around for endgame because weaving seemed weird to them. Note that some of those players were veterans of other MMOs, albeit of the tab-target variety.

Just my honest opinion...

fizzylu

No

@propertyOfUndefined
That is pretty much exactly what happened though, it's not even just an opinion haha

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

danno8 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

I strongly disagree with this. Regardless of the intentions at launch, ESO has doubled down on LA weaving many times over the years. They have certainly adjusted animations to make it look more fluid. With a good connection and good FPS, LA weaving looks very fluid to me, as if the character is quickly going from LA to Skill (AKA, they are weaving LAs in to their skills). LA weaving barely constitutes AC unless your connection, FPS is really bad.

If you want to talk animation canceling, the three biggest culprits are Block, Dodge and Bar Swap (by a freaking mile). They have nothing to do with weaving, but certainly they clip animations. Yes good players can exploit those mechanics for max DPS (especially swap cancelling), but if you removed any of these abilities, combat would become very clunky and you would have almost no ability to react to changes during combat. It would make PVP unplayable if removed. Nearly everyone in ESO does these to some degree without even realizing it. If you want to know what it would be like to remove swap cancelling, try to cast a skill on your back bar after hard casting Crystal Frags and call me in the morning. Want to wait until your skill plays its animation before you can block or dodge roll? LOL, there would be dead potatoes everywhere.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt AC. The biggest culprit of AC in a standard parse is Bar Swap Cancelling, but its 100% necessary to allow combat to feel smooth and maintain the 1 second Global Cooldown.

I disagree (obviously). When you use a LA and then clip the animation with a slotted skill, that is animation cancelling. We have just given it a different name "LA Weaving" so everyone knows which mechanic of Animation Cancelling we are talking about. As you say, there are others.

It literally cancels the follow through animation of the LA. My connections are perfect, my FPS are buttery smooth in the hundreds. It doesn't change the fact that the flow from the clipped LA animation to a skill causes a strange nearly unregognizable animation where your characters are doing something but unless you knew there was a LA going on in there, from an outside player perspective you would wonder why the characters arm are juttering every second.

Semantics aside, I did say it should stay, I just think it looks bad.

I also disagree (obviously )

Lets take a fire staff for example. You start with your arm behind you slightly, your staff hangs downwards at lets call it a 30 degree angle.

-If I just press light attack, my arm quickly jabs forward, the fire ball leaves the staff, then my right arm lazily returns to its resting position.

-If I try to do consecutive light attacks. My arm Jabs forward, shoots a fire ball, comes back slightly than abruptly jabs forward again, and a second fire ball fires. It never returns to that resting position between the two. Would you call this animation cancelling? I don't think I would, and I dont think most people would. It is also far less fluid then the next example.

-Now lets say I do a light attack into a classic spammable like swallow soul on a nightblade. I start at rest with my right arm slightly back, my arm jabs forward and the fire ball fires (exactly like a standard light attack), it then returns all the way to the rest position, and while my right arm is pulling back wards, my left hand goes forward and the skill animation plays from my left hand. My left hand then retracts as my right hand goes forward again for the next light attack, and on and on it goes. Its like watching a martial artist punch right hand, left hand, right hand left hand. There is no clipping here whatsover. The light attack flows very fluidly right into the ability and back again. The animations appear to "weave" together, but there is nothing choppy about it.

I just don't see how this constitutes animation canceling. I also think we need a little common sense as to when the light attack really is over. I would argue its when the fire ball leaves the staff or when the sword makes contact with the opponent. Its silly to think I would need to come all the way back to my rest position before I could do anything else, nobody fights that way in RL or any game I have played. Lets say I shoot a fire ball from my staff and then am immediately knocked to the ground, that fire ball is on its way whether or not I get back to my starting position.

Now on the other side of things, with bar swap, block or dodge, you can certainly clip some of the skill animation. I can go Swallow Soul into a bar swap or dodge, you barely see your left hand move and the skill animation almost seems to shoot out of your chest. This is 100% animation canceling, but it does not speed up your ability to cast skills (there is no way around the GCD). Bar swap canceling is necessary to a dynamic DPS rotation, and yes it clips animation slightly, but the alternative (think trying to bar swap after a hard cast crystal frags) feels extremely clunky. If you couldn't block or dodge cancel, your ability to react to damage would be extremely hindered, so again, its 100% necessary for dynamic and reactive combat.

Certainly not every animation flows as well as swallow soul, but for the most part they do and ZOS has made an effort to make them flow smoothly. I am also perhaps jaded running at 3440x1440 @144 FPS with ping of about 65, and admittedly, I have seen vids of people doing parses with bad framerate and it looks choppy, but I would expect things to look choppy with high ping and low FPS.

I agree that Staff and Swallow Soul is definitely one of the better combinations. But now try Dual Wield and Jabs. It looks terrible.

I think we have different aesthetic preferences. From what I recall you didn't mind the new Jabs animation whereas I though it looked pretty bad once I got down to using it.

I really, really understand block cancelling, dodge cancelling and bar swap cancelling, there is no need to explain it to me. I also understand the need for animation cancelling in this game. Responsiveness trumps everything when you need to use active combat.

I still think LA weaving is a function of animation cancelling, because as in the case of stuff like Jabs and Dual Wield you don't even see the downswing of the dual wield attack. The weapons just vanish and Jabs just begins. Yes Staff+Swallow is better. In fact Staff + anything looks better overall.

The question was "Do you enjoy LA weaving" and my answer is still "no" because it looks bad. You think it looks good. That's fine. I do not advocate getting rid of it.

To be fair, I am not a huge fan of the new jabs animation, but it certainly doesn't bother me as much as it does others. I get being against the Motif of the spear from a lore standpoint (I think it should match the motif of the weapon you are using).
Templar is just not a class I play a lot. I think it is the hardest spammable to weave in the game, and it has never felt right to me. No class makes me stare at at a GCD bar more than templar.

I was a strong advocate of getting the channel down to .8 seconds to allow for weaving within the 1.0 GCD, and I do think the changed helped with some of my complaints about weaving the skill, but I still much prefer classes with an insta cast spammable. And here we are again. I like weaving. haha.

DreamyLu

No

I rarely use either of them. I tend to ignore completely light/heavy attack and rather use straight one of my skills 1-5. I couldn't get used to that concept that I don't like much.

Kessra

While I think that a player-based skill to improve the general DPS is a good thing, the problem is that the game isn't telling you anything about it. Its mechanics are more or less taught from one person to the next or by making videos about it. To be good in PvP or endgame PvE you more or less need to master it to have a chance.

Though, I think in its current form it hurts the game more than it provides any good. First, I know people who suffer from constant hand motion activities, i.e. my girlfriend had to stop playing piano because of typewriter's cramps, and I do know players in ESO who suffered such an injury by practicing their rotation for hours. Next, it is rather computer and internet-bandwidth specific whether light attacks properly fire off or are swallowed by the next ability you try to cancel the animation of a LA with. At my parents who have a roughly 10+ years old PC lurking around, which only manages to run ESO in the most minimal configuration possible, there is no chance of ever performing LA weaving/animation canceling at all. Even at my home I suffer from bandwidth ups and downs as I share the bandwidth with at least 15 other apartments in the building and probably with 19 further buildings all belonging to the same complex. In late/early hours I can cancel animations like a pro but at peek times I'm glad that things die so easily anyways.

ZOS should probably provide sets that cater around various play styles. One might prefer a Skyrim-esque light/heavy attack focused gameplay without much use of their actual abilities, others don't want/can't do proper light/heavy attacks and play ESO like a WoW-clone by just using their abilities while other make a good mix of both worlds. The balancing here may be the tricky part. IMO the combination of both should always lead to the best result, though the other play styles should be viable options with some % less overall damage output in general. Then it is up to the player and how the s/he went in terms of gearing options. In the end, ZOS is still marketing the all so famous "Play as you want" phrase. Time to let people actually really decide how they want to play while not loosing tons and tons of potential damage output.

Uvi_AUT

Yes

Jaustink wrote: »

I think the LARGEST reason by far that many outsiders of this game complain about ESO's combat clunkiness is due to the weaving mechanic. I think the game would be much better without it & an auto-attack function personally. What are your thoughts?

Yes, and stop making Polls where you start with trying to suggest an answer.
Post your opinion in a second Post under the Poll.

Amottica

Yes

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

It's always felt like a bug to me, which the devs eventually called a "feature".

I'll also add that I think it's the biggest barrier to entry for most players. Through the years, I've gotten many of my friends to play the game, but none of them really stuck around for endgame because weaving seemed weird to them. Note that some of those players were veterans of other MMOs, albeit of the tab-target variety.

Just my honest opinion...

Weaving is only a percentage of the DPS capability in this game. Like any MMORPG, a good build and reasonable player skill make up the difference between a good DPS and one that struggles. The difference between the top DPS in this game and the average DPS would be very similar if weaving was removed.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

Amottica wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

It's always felt like a bug to me, which the devs eventually called a "feature".

I'll also add that I think it's the biggest barrier to entry for most players. Through the years, I've gotten many of my friends to play the game, but none of them really stuck around for endgame because weaving seemed weird to them. Note that some of those players were veterans of other MMOs, albeit of the tab-target variety.

Just my honest opinion...

Weaving is only a percentage of the DPS capability in this game. Like any MMORPG, a good build and reasonable player skill make up the difference between a good DPS and one that struggles. The difference between the top DPS in this game and the average DPS would be very similar if weaving was removed.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Pre LA nerfs, weaving was maybe 15% DPS. People showed many times on the forums parses (not HA builds) with 100k plus and no LAs whatsoever. There is a lot more room than that between the top and your average player. Weaving gets way too much credit for the difference between your average joe and those pushing leaderboards.

-Maintaining pace of your GCD to as close to 1 second as possible
-Dynamically managing your DOT buff timers*
-Proper opening rotations and pre buffs
-Proper execute rotations, knowing what to recast and what to let expire*
-Ultimate and Potions management
-Positioning during a fight to maximize cleave*
-The ability to DPS while moving, aka respecting mechanics*

And that doesnt even get into the difference between a good group and a bad group. Certainly, weaving makes some of those things a little more difficult, but if they removed LAs from the game tomorrow, their would still be a massive gap in DPS in this game.

And here is the funny/sad part. Yes they nerfed LA damage, but the skill gap has actually widened since update 35 or whenever it was. We now have so many freaking DOT timers, that rotations have actually become more difficult and it shows, despite LAs being less of a piece of the proverbial DPS pie.

* These in particular have gotten harder lately.

DrNukenstein

Yes

Light weaving, and especially heavy weaving is what makes the combat so immersive. Holding that right trigger on controller and buffering my spammable/ult/execute to cast as soon as I let go is an out of body experience.

What I think makes weaving bad and unimmersive is how optimal performance in dungeons means doing it for your buffs and dots too.

Amottica

Yes

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

propertyOfUndefined wrote: »

It's always felt like a bug to me, which the devs eventually called a "feature".

I'll also add that I think it's the biggest barrier to entry for most players. Through the years, I've gotten many of my friends to play the game, but none of them really stuck around for endgame because weaving seemed weird to them. Note that some of those players were veterans of other MMOs, albeit of the tab-target variety.

Just my honest opinion...

Weaving is only a percentage of the DPS capability in this game. Like any MMORPG, a good build and reasonable player skill make up the difference between a good DPS and one that struggles. The difference between the top DPS in this game and the average DPS would be very similar if weaving was removed.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here. Pre LA nerfs, weaving was maybe 15% DPS. People showed many times on the forums parses (not HA builds) with 100k plus and no LAs whatsoever. There is a lot more room than that between the top and your average player. Weaving gets way too much credit for the difference between your average joe and those pushing leaderboards.

-Maintaining pace of your GCD to as close to 1 second as possible
-Dynamically managing your DOT buff timers*
-Proper opening rotations and pre buffs
-Proper execute rotations, knowing what to recast and what to let expire*
-Ultimate and Potions management
-Positioning during a fight to maximize cleave*
-The ability to DPS while moving, aka respecting mechanics*

And that doesnt even get into the difference between a good group and a bad group. Certainly, weaving makes some of those things a little more difficult, but if they removed LAs from the game tomorrow, their would still be a massive gap in DPS in this game.

And here is the funny/sad part. Yes they nerfed LA damage, but the skill gap has actually widened since update 35 or whenever it was. We now have so many freaking DOT timers, that rotations have actually become more difficult and it shows, despite LAs being less of a piece of the proverbial DPS pie.

* These in particular have gotten harder lately.

I do not see any disagreement here.

As I noted, a good build and reasonable player skill make up the difference between a good DPS and one that struggles and you note multiple points that are essential parts of a good build and player skill.

Exactly what I was saying because if they are only missing that 15% from LAs they are doing pretty good. If they struggle with the points you make, they are lacking in player skill and maybe also with having a decent build.

Bokila

Yes

I wish the game would allow us to trigger 2 abilities per second instead of one. That would be the only way the combat would not feel incomplete and awkward with those 1 second breaks between skills. The light weaving makes it feel more intense. It's not just about the extra dps but the lack of actions happening between those skills would make alot of people leave.

SickleCider

No

It's boring. I think the combat would be boring without it, too. But the light attacks are boring and they hurt my arthritic hands.

NettleCarrier

No

I think most people playing this game are still doing so because they like the way combat is and accept this as part of it. The results of this are likely skewed as a consequence of that. If you look anywhere outside of this forum or the subreddit, you'll notice that the game is heavily criticized because of light attack weaving. If we as a community want the game to prosper, we need to consider those people that feel that way.