Do you actually enjoy the light/heavy attack weaving mechanic within ESO's combat system?

Gray_howling_parrot

I think the LARGEST reason by far that many outsiders of this game complain about ESO's combat clunkiness is due to the weaving mechanic. I think the game would be much better without it & an auto-attack function personally. What are your thoughts?

sarahthes

Yes

I like it because it adds an element of skill that one can improve upon and see progression, especially since this game has largely horizontal progression otherwise.

Gray_howling_parrot

No

sarahthes wrote: »

I like it because it adds an element of skill that one can improve upon and see progression, especially since this game has largely horizontal progression otherwise.

So you ultimately like it because of skill progression, but not necessarily the visuals of it? When I refer to clunkiness, I mean it doesn't look/feel smooth, but I agree that getting better at it and seeing our dps rise obviously feels nice.

Soarora

Yes

It adds rhythm and a uniqueness to ESO's combat. Though, I've seen suggestions of a delayed auto-attack option. One that would never be as good as manual weaving but enough to keep up LA sets like relequen and pillar. I think that'd be a great accessibility feature.

Vevvev

Yes

I enjoy it since it keeps me moving. I find other MMO's combat systems that aren't as fast as ESO's boring and unengaging for the most part. I also like how we're constrained to only a few skills on each bar as I hated how in Star Trek Online, Lord of the Rings Online,and other games having 10+ skills per bar with multiple bars daunting.

Spend way more time looking at the bar to find the ability to click than looking at the fight.

Rex-Umbra

No

I am sure the forum will lean yes but average player who never uses the forums would lean no.

MEBengalsFan2001

No

ESO light attack weaving is not a new mechanic to MMOs. Other MMOs have similar mechanics but the devs were able to reduce the skill gap by simply allowing players to hold down attack and use abilities between the attacks or simply made it so there was no way to animation cancel an ability or attack which improved combat for all players. Something I hope the devs do in this game.

In those other games the devs adjusted content to align based on the lower damage potential. The end result was that more players had to learn mechanics instead of simply burning through them.

Destai

No

I enjoy light attacks and heavy attacks in and of themselves, but the animation cancelling I'm mixed on. I've found it to be less than reliable, especially if there's any lag, and it's uncomfortable to sustain on console. I find the cancelling point varies between skills. I also find that ground AOEs don't always automatically cast, sometimes they lag and just try to figure out how to fire. That makes the whole rhythm game a bit rough.

amonengelb16_ESO

No

Light Attack weaving is one of the reasons why ESO has the clunkiest and most unnatural of all gameplay loops. Its one of the reasons why a lot of people call it "Dark Age of Camelot" on crack. (Yes, being high on crack is not an improvement.) Light Attack weaving actually does not improve skillfull gameplay. Instead its one more "fire and forget"-type of gameplay loop. And its one of the reasons why many Twitch.tv influencers drop Elder Scrolls Online after they see how this game really plays: Which does not promote "active twitch based gameplay" – whereas the whole game is usually presented completely different until you experience Light Attack weaving.

To be frankly, I could understand if ONE class on Magicka would use Light Attack weaving as Nightblades. But it won't change because ESO already has too many sets that actively work with stacking Light Attacks.

Kirawolfe

Yes

I enjoy it - it leads to engaging, fast paced combat.

Agenericname

No

I voted no, but I think that read it wrong. I would no to auto attacks.

I dont particulary enjoy weaving light attacks on my DDs. It does add some depth to the combat, but overall it isnt something that Im overly fond of. I can do just fine, its not that I can't, Im just more neutral about them.

Heavy attacks I do enjoy, though the action itself feel terrible sometimes. When Im tanking they add some utility, and sometimes procs, which adds a strategic element to the role.

blktauna

I neither like nor dislike as it's how I naturally use the mouse and keyboard whether the game makes use of it or not. I suppose that as a lucky surprise for me and why I've played this the longest.

I do like the HA mechanic too.

KlauthWarthog

Yes

Yes... when it works, which is not something you can rely on for some skills (skulls, anybody?), or whenever you look at the game funny.
As a core part of the combat system, as stated in the not-quite-so-deep dive, you might be inclined to think that they would put some effort into making it reliably function, but...

spartaxoxo

No

No because it is not comfortable, physically, to me.

DMuehlhausen

No

but they are never going to get rid of it.

Castagere

No

I still don't know why this became a big deal in this game.

Cazador

I don't really like or dislike it.

TaSheen

No

At my age my reflexes aren't any good for twitchy combat - and mega ping adds to the problem. I do as little combat in this game as I can.

BlueRaven

No

Well, the poll is closer than I expected which is nice.

I can do weaving (although it feels more like constantly mashing the light attack button while firing my spells) well enough to do vet trials, but I am staying way clear of most hard modes.

I really don’t like weaving, and it is to me my biggest pain point of the game. When the day comes when I may stop playing eso, I will miss the environments, the players, the lore, and the visuals, but I won’t miss the combat.

Northwold

No

No. When the way to deliver the highest damage in the game is to exploit a defect in how animations are handled, and when that is allowed to carry on to the point that many players consider what is actually a glitch a feature, something has gone wrong.

Back in the day, you used to have sports games that relied on you pushing the joystick as fast as possible from side to side or two keys on the keyboard to run fast. They'd result in broken joysticks and broken keys. Animation cancelling is every bit as ridiculous as that kind of "skilled" mechanic.

Darkstorne

Manual controls for light attacks rather than auto-attacks = great

Cancelling the animation after a split second so no attack visually happens but damage is still dealt = terrible

Good system, terrible implementation. Look at New World and For Honor that handle animation cancelling like this well. You're still rewarded for cancelling at the right time to either smoothly link multiple attacks together or bait opponents into thinking one attack is coming before cancelling into a different attack, but if you cancel too early and your attack doesn't connect... then no damage is dealt. Logical really.

SpacemanSpiff1

Yes

i dont know that 'enjoy' is the right word, but combat would be boring as heck with just casting abilities.

auto attack is cringe.

danno8

No

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

Jacozilla

Yes

LA yes.
HA no.

Lot of ways to describe LA mech in eso but “clunky” (imo) is not it.

Hard to master, unneeded, great to have, contributes too much to dps skill gap, whatever. All valid opinions whichever way you come down on good/bad side of LA.

But LA weaving by definition is fitting a LA in between the GCD (global cooldown 1.0 sec) of each skill activation. There is zero clunkiness to LA weaving as it does not interrupt or pause your skills in any way. Again, can argue it is hard to learn, or easy to learn but hard to master, whatever.

But it’s called weaving for a reason, it fits between the GCD so there is no clunky nature to it. If you are LA weaving, then it is ultra smooth. If you are not, unable, can’t learn it, etc - separate issue.

Put another way, if you want to argue that your dps rotation is clunky until you learn LA weaving or still partially learning it, that’s fine. But you are ascribing to a technique done right a trait that only exists if not done right.

TLDR - LA weaving isn’t clunky, opposite of it in fact and ultra smooth. Not doing LA weaving correctly or still learning and randomly activating skill or LA at non-weaved times can be clunky. But that would also be true of almost anything that looks smooth when learned vs beginner.

nuttytom

Yes

Northwold wrote: »

No. When the way to deliver the highest damage in the game is to exploit a defect in how animations are handled, and when that is allowed to carry on to the point that many players consider what is actually a glitch as a feature, something has gone wrong.

Back in the day, you used to have sports games that relied on you pushing the joystick as fast as possible from side to side or two keys on the keyboard to run fast. They'd result in broken joysticks and broken keys. Animation cancelling is every bit as ridiculous as that kind of "skilled" mechanic.

zos have literally said themselves that weaving is a feature and they like it

Sylosi

No

Light attack weaving just gets tedious, it doesn't add depth in any meaningful sense, it's a low skill brain-off mechanic.

Red_Feather

No

nuttytom wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

No. When the way to deliver the highest damage in the game is to exploit a defect in how animations are handled, and when that is allowed to carry on to the point that many players consider what is actually a glitch as a feature, something has gone wrong.

Back in the day, you used to have sports games that relied on you pushing the joystick as fast as possible from side to side or two keys on the keyboard to run fast. They'd result in broken joysticks and broken keys. Animation cancelling is every bit as ridiculous as that kind of "skilled" mechanic.

zos have literally said themselves that weaving is a feature and they like it

It's a bug they could never grasp well enough to fix. Everyone who has been around for years knows that.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

Yes. I think it is an excellent concept. It adds a layer of skill to what would otherwise be mostly a game of juggling timers (like every other MMO). It helps makes combat engaging and dynamic (as do things like dynamic blocking, dodgerolling, weapon swapping, etc.), and it was one thing that helps ESO really separate itself from other MMOs in the combat department. I dont play auto attack MMOs for exactly that reason. Combat is a snooze fest.

And lets be clear, you dont need to use LA weaving unless pushing certain trifectas and vet HMs or high level PVP. The game is perfectly accessible without it. So if you dont like it, dont use it.

Also, lets say I am some sort of mystical warrior that carried a weapon like a greatsword. Would I not sprinkle in attacks with my blade between more more powerful abilities? Otherwise, what am I lugging this thing around for? It fits well from a lore perspective.

NOTHING WOULD MAKE ME UNINSTALL ESO FASTER THAN ADDING SOME VERSION OF AUTO-ATTACK.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yes

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I am sure the forum will lean yes but average player who never uses the forums would lean no.

The average player doesn't LA weave, because the average player doesn't participate in content where it is even remotely necessary.

I have run with a lot of really good groups over the years. I have never met a player capable of pushing hard content to the extreme that complained about LA weaving. Not saying they dont exist, but they are the vast minority among those who want the challenge of things like trifectas and vet hard modes.

If you don't care about hardest content, then there is nothing to be concerned about, because you simply dont need to LA weave to be effective in ESO. That said, I have no sympathy (not saying this is you) for people that want the hardest content brought down to the level so everyone can do it. Some things should be out of reach for average players. That is why we have different difficulty levels.

danno8 wrote: »

It looks really lame, I've never liked it but I do it just fine and I get why people would like it to stay. It does add a little bit more skill to the combat. Very little though tbh.

I wish it was redone in a way that flowed with other animations better and was still required for optimal DPS and Ultimate regeneration. But as it stands it is a cancelled animation that just looks spastic.

So I don't enjoy it, but yes keep it.

I strongly disagree with this. Regardless of the intentions at launch, ESO has doubled down on LA weaving many times over the years. They have certainly adjusted animations to make it look more fluid. With a good connection and good FPS, LA weaving looks very fluid to me, as if the character is quickly going from LA to Skill (AKA, they are weaving LAs in to their skills). LA weaving barely constitutes AC unless your connection, FPS is really bad.

If you want to talk animation canceling, the three biggest culprits are Block, Dodge and Bar Swap (by a freaking mile). They have nothing to do with weaving, but certainly they clip animations. Yes good players can exploit those mechanics for max DPS (especially swap cancelling), but if you removed any of these abilities, combat would become very clunky and you would have almost no ability to react to changes during combat. It would make PVP unplayable if removed. Nearly everyone in ESO does these to some degree without even realizing it. If you want to know what it would be like to remove swap cancelling, try to cast a skill on your back bar after hard casting Crystal Frags and call me in the morning. Want to wait until your skill plays its animation before you can block or dodge roll? LOL, there would be dead potatoes everywhere.

TLDR: LA weaving isnt AC. The biggest culprit of AC in a standard parse is Bar Swap Cancelling, but its 100% necessary to allow combat to feel smooth and maintain the 1 second Global Cooldown.

Red_Feather wrote: »

nuttytom wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

No. When the way to deliver the highest damage in the game is to exploit a defect in how animations are handled, and when that is allowed to carry on to the point that many players consider what is actually a glitch as a feature, something has gone wrong.

Back in the day, you used to have sports games that relied on you pushing the joystick as fast as possible from side to side or two keys on the keyboard to run fast. They'd result in broken joysticks and broken keys. Animation cancelling is every bit as ridiculous as that kind of "skilled" mechanic.

zos have literally said themselves that weaving is a feature and they like it

It's a bug they could never grasp well enough to fix. Everyone who has been around for years knows that.

Been around since Beta and couldnt disagree more. Don't confuse a bug with an unintended mechanic. They are absolutely not the same thing. They could put LAs on the same GCD as skills in an instant if they wanted to and weaving would cease to exist. It's laughable to suggest ZOS couldnt remove weaving if they wanted to. It would take a couple of interns about 45 minutes. They haven't because they like the way it currently functions, and has functioned since launch and so do a LOT of players.

Jaimeh

Yes

Actually the weaving makes combat LESS clanky, given how the gcd works. I hope they never remove it, and they will stop nerfing it.

vsrs_au

I never use weaving, because it doesn't work very well with 400 average ping.