Spellcrafting, a Fantasy?

Arunei · January 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

fleetingyouth_ESO wrote: »

As a business and from a marketing perspective it is always better to market new content to potential new players and possibly lure back old players who have left. A new class is a sure thing and will create more buzz in the gaming media, more articles, and more conversation in the wider gaming world of people not currently playing the game.

Disagree. Spellcrafting would be a much more exciting addition to market to both new and old players. Customizable spells instead of yet another rather generic casting class? Besides the portal what will arcanist do that will make it and this game really stand out?

They dropped the ball here. If they wanted to generate buzz they should have gone ahead with spellcrafting. Arcanist will be a snooze for gaming media and the gaming world. It's really not that unique aside from that portal which will wind up being talked about for the problems and exploits it will cause.

Let me ask: As a potential new player - never played ESO before - would you be more excited about a MMORPG adding a new casting class or adding a system to customize your spells and abilities? You choose if it's AOE or single target, DoT or burst, long cast time or instant, etc.

I think the main problem here is you're making the HUGE assumption of how customizable spellcrafting could be. You're making absolute statements over something we've only ever seen a WIP version of years ago. People don't want to look at the fact that if it was that customizable it would be far too broken and overpowered. You wouldn't be able to choose all that, that would be a balancing nightmare.

What, exactly, are you (or anyone who thinks Spellcrafting would be this big fresh thing) expecting to be able to do with it? Let's say you want to have a Fire spell on your Warden. What would be the difference between that and just using a Flame Glyph on one of your weapons for Fire damage? It's not like you'd be able to give your Warden a Fire spell that could inflict Burning and/or have other effects beyond damage, because then you're crossing into the territory of DK abilities or sets that do similar things.

It's not just a simple matter. They have to balance any potential spell against Sets, they have to balance them against existing skills, they have to balance them against Glyphs. They have to make sure that X Class can't just do things Y Class already does because that doesn't promote playing Y Class.

Balancing against Glyphs would be a big pain, too, because ultimately Spellcasting would essentially just be Enchanting. Suddenly you don't have to decide between certain Glyphs, if you can have a spell that does the same thing those Glyphs do. If we have spells that can increase Weapon Damage or do certain kinds of damage like Oblivion, you can have those spells as well as the Glyphs you want. And while that sounds good on paper (more choices and all right), again it's just more of a balancing headache.

Holycannoli · January 2023

Balance has never been achieved in this game and never will be. That WIP version is what should be built upon. That would generate more buzz and interest than any class the devs come up with.

Imagine you choose if you want AOE or single target. DoT or burst. Instant cast, cast time or channeled. Which damage type it uses, or multiple types. It might depend on your class, so sorcerers would be best to choose lightning, DKs fire, nightblades poison, necros disease etc. Maybe you can choose if it has secondary effects. And you'll most likely come up with a spell that costs way too much to ever cast with like a 50k resource requirement so you'll have to pare back your choices until it's a reasonable spell to use.

Arcanist won't be generating any buzz in the media or any interest in this game for those that don't play it. Spellcrafting would.

Dr_Con · January 2023

You are living in a fantasy world within a fantasy world if you think something from 2014 has any bearing on the present day.

Holycannoli · January 2023

Not saying it does. I'm saying they should have been working toward Spellcrafting instead of a class that won't be generating excitement.

I'll be buying the expansion and playing the new class but it's not going to attract new players.

Arunei · January 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

Balance has never been achieved in this game and never will be. That WIP version is what should be built upon. That would generate more buzz and interest than any class the devs come up with.

Imagine you choose if you want AOE or single target. DoT or burst. Instant cast, cast time or channeled. Which damage type it uses, or multiple types. It might depend on your class, so sorcerers would be best to choose lightning, DKs fire, nightblades poison, necros disease etc. Maybe you can choose if it has secondary effects. And you'll most likely come up with a spell that costs way too much to ever cast with like a 50k resource requirement so you'll have to pare back your choices until it's a reasonable spell to use.

Arcanist won't be generating any buzz in the media or any interest in this game for those that don't play it. Spellcrafting would.

You would never able to choose all that. It would again be too much to balance against other things like Classes, Skills, and Sets. You can ignore that fact all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. The very fact that we don't even have balance in what exists isn't a good argument for introducing something that would completely annihilate any semblance of balance that exists.

I'm not sure, either, why you're so sure that Spellcrafting would be so interesting for anyone who doesn't play. If I were a new member it sure wouldn't spark the hype for me you think it would. It would just be another mechanic for a game I'm not playing.

At the end of the day ZOS has never promised Spellcrafting and nothing has indicated it would be coming this year. We've only ever seen the WIP from years ago and they've recently said it's still not something they're working on. It might come one day, but it's definitely not going to be this thing where you can make as in-depth spell like all that. It'll be the same thing we have with Enchanting and Alchemy, where you choose the level and then a small number of effects, because anything beyond that would just be too much of a balance issue.

fleetingyouth_ESO · January 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

fleetingyouth_ESO wrote: »

As a business and from a marketing perspective it is always better to market new content to potential new players and possibly lure back old players who have left. A new class is a sure thing and will create more buzz in the gaming media, more articles, and more conversation in the wider gaming world of people not currently playing the game.

Disagree. Spellcrafting would be a much more exciting addition to market to both new and old players. Customizable spells instead of yet another rather generic casting class? Besides the portal what will arcanist do that will make it and this game really stand out?

They dropped the ball here. If they wanted to generate buzz they should have gone ahead with spellcrafting. Arcanist will be a snooze for gaming media and the gaming world. It's really not that unique aside from that portal which will wind up being talked about for the problems and exploits it will cause.

Let me ask: As a potential new player - never played ESO before - would you be more excited about a MMORPG adding a new casting class or adding a system to customize your spells and abilities? You choose if it's AOE or single target, DoT or burst, long cast time or instant, etc.

You can disagree all you want, that is a valid OPINION to have. But again you are ignoring how a business has to look at the larger market and past success. Could spellcrafting revitalize the game and bring in new players? If it was done just right maybe but it is just as likely to be a disaster and create a lot of negative buzz exactly how TOT did.

As a business, they chose to take the safer option that is almost never going to be a disappointment and still will create the most buzz. Taking chances is a risk they took a chance with a card game and failed they couldn't afford to fail for a second year. The larger history of adding new classes into an MMO has almost never resulted in disappointment.

Now I am of the opinion like a lot of people on these forums that no matter how spellcrafting was created if added it would not be what everyone who is asking for it wants.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

ESO was looking for it’s second wind after the whole mandatory subscription and paywalled race fiasco when ZOS announced Spellcrafting, that feature’s announcement helped carry the game through, as it addressed massive problems that people coming from prior TES games had with the current game.

Yet here we are in 2023 with nothing tangible.

Have whatever reservations you want, it doesn’t change the fact that when you dedicate an entire section of a presentation to a feature, for a game not out yet, use it as a selling point, and then fail to deliver on that implied promise after taking my money for it in pre-order, that it’s only fair to let people know it’s not happening.

amonengelb16_ESO · January 2023

The presentations of 2014 also included cloaks and capes. But we already know that they were excluded due to heavy fps drops. Even if it might change with newer consoles and computers, you have to understand that ESO's engine is set. And as much as I love capes; They will never come into this game. These things can not be changed that easily for a studio as ZoS.

To me, ESO was presented as a spritual successor of Dark Age of Camelot and it's Realm vs Realm PvP. Even FFA PvP was just a minor request back then. This was the presented selling point since the beginning. They even have Matt Firor from Mythic Entertainment.

To be honest, I can understand that people wish for a sandboxy "Spellcrafting"-system. But as I have experienced the game's engine and it's "MMO-box" and how it plays … I doubt that something sandboxy as Spellcraft is even able to come into this game. I mean it would be too risky for the company and I couldn't imagine that ZoS could handle it technically. It won't work anymore since the gameplay loop is already designed.

Players often tend to idealize their favorite features … while the company behind the game already followed completely different values for years. It sometimes leaves me puzzled that the game's players hardly understand the technique behind it. I mean … The game's technological aspects were never close to Eve Online, Camelot Unchained nor a true sandbox Elder Scrolls game.

I share your disappointment since I also expected much different features to be announced. But they generally just took the "Chapter X"-package they'd do all the time and play it safe.

Cryptor · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Melivar · January 2023

I don't think Zos has mentioned working on spellcrafting in anything I have watched. Content creators and such sure but not from Zos. The most recent comments were linked and that made it sound doubtful at best but we all hear what we want to hear I guess.

Cazador · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Do you have proof to back that claim up? Given that the video I posted earlier from last year seems to indicate that it was shelved with no current plans to develop it further I suspect it hasn't been worked on since it's initial incarnation.

Vulkunne · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Was Spellcrafting ever in the cards?

This year was the biggest push for the feature I have ever seen, after last years push prior and it seems like it’s just falling on deaf ears.

Can we get a response from ZOS about the future of this promised system?

It would lessen the pain of getting burnt again this year after constant wave after wave of nerfs to our already favorite classes… just to have a glimpse of hope for new skills to replace the now useless ones we have, if this were to be implemented.

Its not an idea unheard of but in this sense I believe its a terrible idea because that means they'll have to take every mag skill in the game and run it thru another round of balancing and nerfs. Bad enough as it were and hybrid setup already bridges gaps between mag and stam. I just don't see how this is possible with the direction they've taken with the game.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Do you have proof to back that claim up? Given that the video I posted earlier from last year seems to indicate that it was shelved with no current plans to develop it further I suspect it hasn't been worked on since it's initial incarnation.

Just want to say, thank you. You may not have meant to do it, but you just answered my question about Spellcrafting…

The fact that Matt Firor has covered his tracks is enough indication that this feature will never be released while ESO still has a playerbase.

Edit: In 2016, Matt Firor addressed the community about his future plans for the game and stated Spellcrafting last, as it wasn’t something forgotten. Now when you try to follow the wiki-link, it tells you you’re lost. lol

Cazador · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Do you have proof to back that claim up? Given that the video I posted earlier from last year seems to indicate that it was shelved with no current plans to develop it further I suspect it hasn't been worked on since it's initial incarnation.

Just want to say, thank you. You may not have meant to do it, but you just answered my question about Spellcrafting…

The fact that Matt Firor has covered his tracks is enough indication that this feature will never be released while ESO still has a playerbase.

I think I saw that page as well actually. I recall looking on uesp and one of their sources for spellcrafting's indefinite pause was a "2016, the year ahead "type posts that led to a dead page. However I don't think it is covering their tracks as you said.

Edit: the post in question is actually available, I found it through Google and I think uesp might just have the wrong url linked.

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Do you have proof to back that claim up? Given that the video I posted earlier from last year seems to indicate that it was shelved with no current plans to develop it further I suspect it hasn't been worked on since it's initial incarnation.

Just want to say, thank you. You may not have meant to do it, but you just answered my question about Spellcrafting…

The fact that Matt Firor has covered his tracks is enough indication that this feature will never be released while ESO still has a playerbase.

I think I saw that page as well actually. I recall looking on uesp and one of their sources for spellcrafting's indefinite pause was a "2016, the year ahead "type posts that led to a dead page. However I don't think it is covering their tracks as you said.

Edit: the post in question is actually available, I found it through Google and I think uesp might just have the wrong url linked.

If you could share it, that would be great!

Cazador · January 2023

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Cryptor wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

Sir_Hammock wrote: »

How have spellcrafting been promised?
The only thing I've ever seen them talking about it was when they said they have no interest in this system.

It was given it’s own presentation, being used as a selling point at Quakecon 2014, done by old Gameplay Director, Nick Konkle.

Highly informative video, you should check it out.

They talked about a feature 9 years ago, it was never implemented or discussed since. Do I really need to go on?

Yes.

Edit: Expectations don’t disappear when every year or two, we get a line from ZOS saying it’s still being worked on.

Do you have proof to back that claim up? Given that the video I posted earlier from last year seems to indicate that it was shelved with no current plans to develop it further I suspect it hasn't been worked on since it's initial incarnation.

Just want to say, thank you. You may not have meant to do it, but you just answered my question about Spellcrafting…

The fact that Matt Firor has covered his tracks is enough indication that this feature will never be released while ESO still has a playerbase.

I think I saw that page as well actually. I recall looking on uesp and one of their sources for spellcrafting's indefinite pause was a "2016, the year ahead "type posts that led to a dead page. However I don't think it is covering their tracks as you said.

Edit: the post in question is actually available, I found it through Google and I think uesp might just have the wrong url linked.

If you could share it, that would be great!

Oh yeah completely forgot
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25563

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

Okay, so from this post in 2016 you can see that the team want to bring this to us…

Then in 2022, we have another interview discussing Spellcrafting.

The core combat of ESO hasn’t changed since launch, we’ve only received new sets and a Champion Point system overhaul that added slight stat increases to all fields but sustain, where you have insane stars giving up to 25% cost reduction, and that message came during the time of the Viper and Widowmaker proc sets… I’d take Plaguebreak over old Viper any day.

Finedaible · January 2023

As much as I want it to not be a fantasy, It has been known for years that spellcrafting was never coming. Also, do not believe the words of a certain man because half of what he has said over the years has turned out to be straight up lies and empty promises. There has never been an atmosphere of honesty and trust.

If I had to theorize, Youtubers were probably clamoring for viewership after the glum fallout that was 2022 and someone probably had the idea for a hopium video about spellcrafting using ZoS's convenient 2014 quakecon presentation as clickbait. Once someone started doing their video about it then everyone else jumped on that bandwagon, like "Naval Combat" the previous year. Can't really blame youtubers for it either, they did what they had to do to keep their audiences.

Stx · January 2023

Finedaible wrote: »

As much as I want it to not be a fantasy, It has been known for years that spellcrafting was never coming. Also, do not believe the words of a certain man because half of what he has said over the years has turned out to be straight up lies and empty promises. There has never been an atmosphere of honesty and trust.

If I had to theorize, Youtubers were probably clamoring for viewership after the glum fallout that was 2022 and someone probably had the idea for a hopium video about spellcrafting using ZoS's convenient 2014 quakecon presentation as clickbait. Once someone started doing their video about it then everyone else jumped on that bandwagon, like "Naval Combat" the previous year. Can't really blame youtubers for it either, they did what they had to do to keep their audiences.

YouTubers will definitely do whatever to get views that’s true. But the guess that spellcrafting would be the feature did make sense. We knew we were going to be doing stuff with the telvanni, and they are wizards. Also even though some may disagree, spellcrafting has been one of the most requested features over the years. But yes, Hopium indeed…. Spellcrafting is just a really cool concept and players were excited.

Cheveyo · January 2023

Holycannoli wrote: »

fleetingyouth_ESO wrote: »

As a business and from a marketing perspective it is always better to market new content to potential new players and possibly lure back old players who have left. A new class is a sure thing and will create more buzz in the gaming media, more articles, and more conversation in the wider gaming world of people not currently playing the game.

Disagree. Spellcrafting would be a much more exciting addition to market to both new and old players. Customizable spells instead of yet another rather generic casting class? Besides the portal what will arcanist do that will make it and this game really stand out?

They dropped the ball here. If they wanted to generate buzz they should have gone ahead with spellcrafting. Arcanist will be a snooze for gaming media and the gaming world. It's really not that unique aside from that portal which will wind up being talked about for the problems and exploits it will cause.

Let me ask: As a potential new player - never played ESO before - would you be more excited about a MMORPG adding a new casting class or adding a system to customize your spells and abilities? You choose if it's AOE or single target, DoT or burst, long cast time or instant, etc.

As a potential horse rider, never ridden a horse before, would you be more excited about riding a Unicorn or riding a normal horse?

Keep being excited by things that can't exist if you want.

fizzylu · January 2023

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I think people hyped themselves up about spellcrafting, and are now disappointed that it's not. They didn't ever promise up spellcrafting for this reveal, but so many people promised others that the emote *100% meant spellcrafting* the people who wanted it are feeling let down.

What about people like me who didn't want spellcrafting, but are still disappointed by the chapter reveal? haha

The_Titan_Tim · January 2023

fizzylu wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I think people hyped themselves up about spellcrafting, and are now disappointed that it's not. They didn't ever promise up spellcrafting for this reveal, but so many people promised others that the emote *100% meant spellcrafting* the people who wanted it are feeling let down.

What about people like me who didn't want spellcrafting, but are still disappointed by the chapter reveal? haha

Right. At the end of the day; if we got six skill lines, I’d say even just three… any three schools of magic with 5 active abilities + 1 ultimate each, that we as a player have to find materials to “craft” those spells rather than grind lore books, all of which with three morphs each (elemental preference for Destruction); people would consider Spellcrafting a success.

If we got three skill lines completely disassociated with Spellcrafting, but were accessible to everyone, not Class locked, people would have been happy.

General consensus is that most people are just unhappy with what we have received, it has nothing to do with “expectations” and everything to do with the route that was chosen because to be fair, after High Isle, the bar was placed pretty low.