Any use for Invigorating?

The_Titan_Tim

To my knowledge, this trait was supposed to be the resource management trait, so I’m a little confused as to why it’s so severely outclassed by Well-Fitted and even Sturdy?

Has anyone found a use for this trait? If so, I would love to hear about it.

endgamesmug

I would love it if they reverted it back to prosperous, atleast it had some practical use. I dont use invigorating at all myself seemed extremely weak to me.

the1andonlyskwex

Well Fitted and Sturdy won't help you much if you need Magicka. Similarly, Divines can only give one type of recovery.

Invigorating gives Stamina, Magicka, and Health recovery all at the same time, so if you need two or more of them it's the best sustain trait you can pick.

Unfortunately, I think ZOS has done a pretty poor job of balancing sustain in general (largely making recovery stats unnecessary outside of potions and food/drink), so Invigorating winds up being a niche trait at best.

I would love for Invigorating to be improved (while staying sustain-oriented), but I'm not really sure how ZOS could do it outside of significantly nerfing sustain from other sources.

INM

Numbers are simply too low to make a noticeable impact. Doesn't help that they are weighed down by health regen.

OBJnoob

I agree with INM.

There are enough pvp sets that give you crit resistance and I've never been much of a "divines in pvp" guy. The way most of my toons are set up sustain is a bit of an issue and I've often thought about experimenting with a bunch of Invigorating traits, but the health recovery always puts me off in the end.

I don't remember the value exactly... But if it's like 14-14-14, I think eliminating the health recovery and literally adding it to the others to make it 21-21 might be a good change.

the1andonlyskwex

For reference, Invigorating is 16-16-16 while Divines and the Atronach (or Serpent) mundus is 28 all in one stat. If you need both mag and stam, Invigorating really is better than the alternative, even without health recovery.

On the other hand, it's not like the alternatives are popular either. Sustain just isn't something most people need from their traits (unless it's for something specific like blocking or dodging).

Dagoth_Rac

You don't really need to min/max recovery. You need enough recovery to sustain in combat and, ideally, no more. Any excess recovery would have been better put toward damage, max resources, crit, resistances, etc., etc. Since you can generally get the recovery you need from potions, food, drink, skills, synergies, or whatever, Invigorating is kind of superfluous. Squeezing out even minor boosts to recovery are generally not useful, whereas squeezing out minor boosts to damage or resistance or crit can make a noticeable difference.

The_Titan_Tim

Yeah, from a PvP perspective, I just don’t see a use for this trait; and end up deconstructing anything that has this trait, I can’t think of one build where this trait would be better than the alternatives.

OBJnoob

I mean that's why it needs a buff though, not a reason to continue ignoring it.

The_Titan_Tim

OBJnoob wrote: »

I mean that's why it needs a buff though, not a reason to continue ignoring it.

Maybe they could make it increased resource return on heavy attacks? That would be interesting.

OBJnoob

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I mean that's why it needs a buff though, not a reason to continue ignoring it.

Maybe they could make it increased resource return on heavy attacks? That would be interesting.

Yes, that is a good idea.

Also...

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

For reference, Invigorating is 16-16-16 while Divines and the Atronach (or Serpent) mundus is 28 all in one stat. If you need both mag and stam, Invigorating really is better than the alternative, even without health recovery.

On the other hand, it's not like the alternatives are popular either. Sustain just isn't something most people need from their traits (unless it's for something specific like blocking or dodging).

If we can agree that the health recovery is useless... Then we're looking at 16+16(32) -v- 28. I think that isn't a very big difference. Now armor enchantments are about 800 -v- tristate glyphs are more like 400+400+400. So about a 50% increase. I think it would make sense for the invigorating trait to copy this ratio... Making it more like 42(21+21.)

the1andonlyskwex

OBJnoob wrote: »

The_Titan_Tim wrote: »

OBJnoob wrote: »

I mean that's why it needs a buff though, not a reason to continue ignoring it.

Maybe they could make it increased resource return on heavy attacks? That would be interesting.

Yes, that is a good idea.

Also...

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

For reference, Invigorating is 16-16-16 while Divines and the Atronach (or Serpent) mundus is 28 all in one stat. If you need both mag and stam, Invigorating really is better than the alternative, even without health recovery.

On the other hand, it's not like the alternatives are popular either. Sustain just isn't something most people need from their traits (unless it's for something specific like blocking or dodging).

If we can agree that the health recovery is useless... Then we're looking at 16+16(32) -v- 28. I think that isn't a very big difference. Now armor enchantments are about 800 -v- tristate glyphs are more like 400+400+400. So about a 50% increase. I think it would make sense for the invigorating trait to copy this ratio... Making it more like 42(21+21.)

That's not really fixing the biggest part of the problem though. Invigorating could be 100-100-100 recovery and most people still wouldn't slot it because they already have all the resources they need.

blktauna

16 is meaningless in the recovery total. I decon all of this stuff.

OBJnoob

Well. I disagree. And Im not trying to say you're wrong about what most people would do, but it seems to me that with hybridization a lot of PvP builds are running high weapon/spell damage, jewels of misrule for hybrid recovery, and ending up with low resource pools.

If the invigorating trait were more useful I would at least try it out-- with the goal being to use a max resource food instead of a recovery food.

Or in the example you gave earlier with someone running the atronach/serpent mundus and divines. They could run invigorating instead and change their mundus.