The Oakensoul ring is weak?

Captain_Devildog

From a PVE perspective honest answer.

Stanx

No

This is too vague. Is it better than a two-bar build and group rotation? No. Is it good for people with accessibility issues / HA builds etc? Yes.

The wading kilt is "weak" on a tank build.

As with most mythics, it has niche applications and is very useful for some people and allows them to play the game with far greater success. It got nerfed because it was over-tuned, that doesn't mean that it's weak now.

Lumenn

No

Seeing that it was in large empower that caused an issue in pvp I wouldn't mind seeing it back to where it was(I can weave just fine after all these years but sometimes it makes these old hands hurt something fierce) and the better the dps in pugs, well, the better pugs are.

But do I think it's weak? No. An oak build will never beat someone that knows how to build and weave in dps but it helps raise the floor without hurting those that know what they're doing. As for pvp, if you can get your bar to swap reliably and skills to fire you're better off without it anyway.

CGPsaint

No

Lumenn wrote: »

Seeing that it was in large empower that caused an issue in pvp I wouldn't mind seeing it back to where it was(I can weave just fine after all these years but sometimes it makes these old hands hurt something fierce) and the better the dps in pugs, well, the better pugs are.

But do I think it's weak? No. An oak build will never beat someone that knows how to build and weave in dps but it helps raise the floor without hurting those that know what they're doing. As for pvp, if you can get your bar to swap reliably and skills to fire you're better off without it anyway.

ZOS could have simply made Oakensoul a PvE only mythic and left it the way that it was. Part of me believes that they released it over-tuned to sell the DLC and part of me believes that as always they simply are not capable of balancing PvE and PvP separately.

endgamesmug

No

Im normally a light weaver which came from using stamblade in pvp originally actually, my current internet connection isnt stable so oakensoul heavy attack has become a solution and it works surprisingly well. Dont have to worry about all that barswapping that dont happen and skills that dont go off. Vet trials are still never gonna interest me so youre pretty safe 😆

Darkstorne

No

A skilled player will get higher DPS without Oakensoul's single hotbar limitation, but for casual playstyles that don't weapon swap anyway it's fantastic.

That's my casual PVE perspective.

Troodon80

No

Weak would be subjective, even if we disregard the notion put forward above about using Kilt on a tank. Assuming we're basing it on what a DD could do, certain situations are going to see Kilt underperform (e.g. Lokkestiiz). But even disregarding the edge cases... Weak compared to what?

I've not played around with it too much, but from some of what I've seen in raids it's quite possible to get competitive DPS with a one-bar heavy attack build.



As an example, here's first boss in veteran Sanctum Ophidia. Player (2) and Player (9) are both using Oakensoul and the bulk of their damage comes from just doing heavy attacks. Player (9) did get pulled into the black hole along with some others, so the DPS is a bit skewed. But overall, it's very competitive with people who are doing full fledged rotations. The highest CPM was Player (4) with 100 CPM, while both of the aforementioned Oakensorcs have just 44 CPM.

Player (44)'s damage looks like this:


Compared to the damage from Player (2):


You see in the comparison here where the damage is coming from and how many actions/casts would be needed for the Warden player to do in order to output this damage versus the heavy attack build who sits at the back holding down their left mouse button. For PvE content, in the right hands, and provided you're actually building for your strengths, Oakensoul is very strong. Bearing in mind, too, that the Possessed Mantikora is a single target fight, so it's not even fully making use of the Lightning Staff's AoE proc.

In a multitarget fight, they very much come out on top:


Sets like Storm Master, Sergeant's Mail, Undaunted Unweaver, etc. all benefit builds like these.

You're not getting Godslayer, Planesbreaker, or Swashbuckler Supreme, but such builds will get you through just about any veteran and even hard mode content in the game with relative ease.

carly

No

It is not weak and it is good for those of us with arthritis - for me at least. I was worried initially when they nerfed it but a few changes to my build as suggested by a poster here and I am doing quite well now. And I don't log off in pain every night like I did before Oakensoul was available so I'm grateful.

TaSheen

No

It works very well for me. I'm really happy to have it.

Living_Tribunal

No

If I could marry my wife with it I would. Yep. Makes sense.

Holycannoli

CGPsaint wrote: »

they simply are not capable of balancing PvE and PvP separately.

I think that is literally correct. They have no way to add separate stats for PvE and PvP.

Zodiarkslayer

Yes

Holycannoli wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

they simply are not capable of balancing PvE and PvP separately.

I think that is literally correct. They have no way to add separate stats for PvE and PvP.

Battle Spirit? 🤔

Cazador

No

There's a difference between weak and something just not being the meta. Oakensoul is the latter.

Malkiv

No

Cazador wrote: »

There's a difference between weak and something just not being the meta. Oakensoul is the latter.

Agreed. Definitely the case for 1 bar/HA Oaken builds. It's a blessing for those who are looking to play outside of the meta, and still be competitive in vDGs and some vTrials. There's always going to be caveats - even with builds that are in meta - but to suggest Oakensoal is "weak" would be a disservice.

Heelie

It's a lot of free damage for very little effort. But it does parse much much lower than other dps setups. And the rotation / gear has no translation into the end game. Which means if you want to move from Oakensoul to a "real" dps build, you will have to start from 0. It also scales very badly in group content, many of the buffs are already there. And there's also the fairness problem. Other group members are spending 50k+ gold an hour playing the content, and Potions / food buffs offer little if no boost to your damage / surviveablity. Having seen 25+ logs of vKA in November I have yet to see an Oakensoul player use the purple fish food (even tho it would give a little more dmg), or any non "trash" potion for that matter. Context here is that the tank ran Gold Orzorgas food at 20k ish, + heroism potions at 500 gold each. Rougly 70k per raid. I also think the idea that "dissabled" players are using it is essentially astroturfing, as I have yet to speak with a dissabled player that prefer to play one bar builds, tho I am sure that a non-zero amount do. to Answer the question, is it too weak? No, is it overpowered? No, Is it badly designed? Yes.

Everest_Lionheart

It’s not weak, however it’s also not quite where it needs to be. It may work great on heavy attack builds, but for light attack builds the empower buff is wasted. This makes the ring a bit one dimensional. If it had the same buff to LA as say the undaunted unweaver/infiltrator sets had than it would be interesting. I like the concept but I’m not much into heavy attack builds and prefer the rhythm of weaving.

Also it need to have more survivability added as well I’m the form of major evasion. Unless you are a NB or running dual daggers you don’t have access to this buff. Sourcing that particular buff has also made builds very one dimensional.

Putting one or both of those on Oakensoul would push it where it needs to be in PvE and make it more viable on other builds and have more utility for harder content.

Freelancer_ESO

No

For most players, Oakensoul is overpowered in most builds. You might be able to outperform it in brief bursts with two bar builds but, in the long run you'll likely mess up enough that the two bar is inferior much of the time.

For players that are near the peak of effectiveness it probably is not the best option most of the time because coordinated groups can cover many of the buffs that it offers and potions which they regularly use are even more broken than Oakensoul.

Long term, I think ZOS should consider bringing the effectiveness of the major and minor buffs down a bit so people that aren't that good don't feel forced into Oakensoul.

JJMaxx1980

No

Oakensoul Ring is such a great and powerful item because it enables a completely new and viable play style which helps raise the floor for all players to excel and partake in endgame content. All content, actually. With Heavy Attack builds, you can do 100k+ DPS without spending hundreds of hours trying perfect some kind of archaic tenth-of-a-second light attack weaving rotation. Sure, the top 1% of dps players can reach 110-120 using LA two bar builds but the difference is that in real world content, a HA build is going to be able to maintain a high level of damage even while engaging with mechanics. A LA build will do anything from 30k to 110k but a HA build will do 70k to 90k in real world trial situations. The floor is higher so the overall DPS of 90% of players sees an overall increase. There will always be a place for those 130k two-bar score pushers. Oakensoul can’t replace that. But for the rest of us it’s amazing and for me personally has completely revitalized my interest in ESO. The best food for this build is green food. You don’t need any potions, you don’t need any synergies, you always have full resources. The HA rotation is challenging enough to be interesting but not insane like juggling 16 abilities. It’s great. I’m spreading it to everyone I meet. It’s not cheese and you are absolutely a ‘real dps’. Don’t listen to the toxic elite who are upset that the commoners are in the country club.

Soarora

No

I’m seeing even endgamers who perform fine without oakensoul switch to using oakensoul. HA-only Tri runs, too. I think its in a fine spot right now, any more buffing it and there’s going to be problems with oakensoul being better than 2-bar. Any nerfs and there won’t be that accessibility option anymore, which would probably cause displeasure.

Also an issue I’ve noticed is now the people who run ahead of the tank (even in vet dlc) are more often than not ha sorcs using oakensoul. Problem is, they don’t die because the survivability is so high so they don’t learn to not do that.

Dr_Con

No

Major berserk is what made it gamebreakingly overpowered in pve and pvp, permanent empower made it op in pvp until they nerfed empower. The survivability the set offers is unneeded.

This set messes with the flow of PVP, players not needing to rebuff but can perform at the same level throughout a fight make this set something you either need to feed into or just avoid players who use it. It's not in a good place for pvp.

for PvE- Players who weren't building minor slayer, or who weren't building minor berserk before the changes, wouldn't feel the difference in dps.

Grizzbeorn

No.

Necrotech_Master

No

Holycannoli wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

they simply are not capable of balancing PvE and PvP separately.

I think that is literally correct. They have no way to add separate stats for PvE and PvP.

they kind of do:
major/minor aegis is dmg reduction, but only against trial/dungeon/arena monsters
the slayer buff works the same but as a dmg buff instead of dmg reduction

both of those are definitely not able to be used against players (see ironblood nerf)

rotaugen454

No

I’ve been using it to solo Vet dungeons and collect gear for more complex builds. Weak, really?

Holycannoli

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

Holycannoli wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

they simply are not capable of balancing PvE and PvP separately.

I think that is literally correct. They have no way to add separate stats for PvE and PvP.

Battle Spirit? 🤔

Battle Spirit is their way to help circumvent that limitation. It helps.

acastanza_ESO

No

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major berserk is what made it gamebreakingly overpowered in pve and pvp, permanent empower made it op in pvp until they nerfed empower. The survivability the set offers is unneeded.

This set messes with the flow of PVP, players not needing to rebuff but can perform at the same level throughout a fight make this set something you either need to feed into or just avoid players who use it. It's not in a good place for pvp.

for PvE- Players who weren't building minor slayer, or who weren't building minor berserk before the changes, wouldn't feel the difference in dps.

The Major Heroism on the old version was also a big part of what made it overwhelmingly strong.

Right now Oakensoul is in a good place for both PVE and PVP. In PVE people who use it are reasonably able to pull their weight in vet content. In PVP it is possible to build to make it work, and there are specs that it performs well on, but it isn't overperforming such that it is a staple on all builds. In fact, the majority of PVP builds that perform at high levels are not using it right now. It is filling its niche as a crutch that raises the floor to make more people more competitive.
In fact, I have it on 1/4 of my PVP DPS builds right now, and 2/6 of my PVE DPS builds. That seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable ratio.

RupertVandy

No

A few people have brought up the exact points I was going to make. I put together a HA sorc with nobles and sergents for basically some transmutes and 8 gold mats to upgrade the staff and I'm getting through vet trials in maybe 2-4th place for dps. Sure it may not parse super high but when you can dance around mechanics while still doing a HA, you move way up the ranks in "real world" dps. Its just further homogenization of the game that will eventually lead to a generic attack, block. and heal that vary only by the color of their animation to distinguish what "class" or "race" did the action.

Baconlad

I use it for both PvE and PvE.

I absolutely despise bar swapping. Not that I can't I just hate the idea of it.

So I use it...and my PvE experience has been dramatically improved

Hapexamendios

No

I put together a heavy attack build on a sorc as well and I like it. It isn't overwhelming nor is it weak. Use it just about anywhere in PVE with the exception of Cloudreast.

Dr_Con

No

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Dr_Con wrote: »

Major berserk is what made it gamebreakingly overpowered in pve and pvp, permanent empower made it op in pvp until they nerfed empower. The survivability the set offers is unneeded.

This set messes with the flow of PVP, players not needing to rebuff but can perform at the same level throughout a fight make this set something you either need to feed into or just avoid players who use it. It's not in a good place for pvp.

for PvE- Players who weren't building minor slayer, or who weren't building minor berserk before the changes, wouldn't feel the difference in dps.

The Major Heroism on the old version was also a big part of what made it overwhelmingly strong.

Yep, I forgot about that. Arguably, minor heroism makes it a bit powerful too, incentivizing running around in combat for PVP to generate ult without actively doing anything.

Problems also exist with doing too many nerfs at a time. Necro bomb ult with dark convergence and oakensoul too op? increase DC cooldown time, remove major heroism. the sets are impacted by eachother, they do too many nerfs without giving time to see the impact of one nerf. Riot Games has this same habit of nerfing too many aspects about a champion instead of the problematic thing.

jtm1018

No

No base on personal xp.
And it fits my playstyle, one bar for life.
I am change weapon challenged.
So I live in playing one bar only.

Artim_X

No