How to gank?

Khrogo

I am a fairly experienced PvE player, but I am hopeless in PvP unless I’m on a tank or healer, and then I can’t really kill anything. I generally avoid PvP zones. Recently, however, I returned to the game and got the sudden urge to gank people. I know, I’m a bad person and I should feel bad. I guess I’m just changing things up to keep them fresh. I’ve been ganked so many times in the Imperial City, and every time it happens, I feel conflicting emotions: hatred and respect.

I tried yanking once, years ago, and it went horribly wrong. I don’t think my target was even wearing heavy armour yet I still ended up dead. Lol. But I will not be discouraged. I am ready to try again. I have two Nightblades, one stam (Khajiit) and one mag (Dark Elf). I would just like some tips on which would be the more beginner-friendly? Also, for stamblades, is melee or bow better? Any tips, advice or build recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Lots of ways to gank, but I think the easiest way to break into ganking is on a mageblade with an oakensoul setup. Oakensoul wildly simplifies (eliminates) your need for any type of pre-buff. It also builds in some tankiness to allow for an escape.

I suggest mageblade over stamblade mostly because it means you can infinite spam cloak without worrying about it. As a ganker, you are ALWAYS in stealth unless your are executing your gank/burst combo. Concealed weapon also makes for a great spammable and it is magic based, it also gives a damage boost out of stealth, off balance from flank, and minor expedition (speed is important on a ganker, also why vamp is generally preferred for the stealth speed passives).

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, its not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

It also means you need to go ALL in on damage. Damage sets, Damage mundus damage enchants, damage CP, Damage Food, etc. When there is a tradeoff to be made, you pick the glass cannon route.

Khajiits make the best gankers by far. Not only do they have stealth passives, but they also have a crit damage modifier. You should make it your mission to be at the crit damage cap (125%) during your burst combo. If you dont know what that means, I can help. But things like, major/minor force, Shadow Mundus, backstabber (always flank for your gank), Fighting finesse, Medium armor, Khajiit passives, Nightblade passives, Axes, Gear (orders wrath), can all help you get there.

For gear, I would recommend 5 piece orders wrath (for the crit damage modifier), a proc set (flame blossom is strong, but not the only option), oakensoul, and one piece monster for either spell damage or Pen.

Keep your combo simple at first, but practice it. HA (or LA)>Incap>LA>Concealed weapon will kill most players that arent ready for it if you are at crit damage cap and enough of your hits crits and your proc fires. You also want to be flanking from stealth when you initiate. Sometimes you need an extra Concealed weapon or maybe an execute ability, but if that doesnt get it done, stealth and get away.

Khrogo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lots of ways to gank, but I think the easiest way to break into ganking is on a mageblade with an oakensoul setup. Oakensoul wildly simplifies (eliminates) your need for any type of pre-buff. It also builds in some tankiness to allow for an escape.

I suggest mageblade over stamblade mostly because it means you can infinite spam cloak without worrying about it. As a ganker, you are ALWAYS in stealth unless your are executing your gank/burst combo. Concealed weapon also makes for a great spammable and it is magic based, it also gives a damage boost out of stealth, off balance from flank, and minor expedition (speed is important on a ganker, also why vamp is generally preferred for the stealth speed passives).

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, it’s not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

You’re an absolute legend. Thanks for the amazingly comprehensive answer. I haven’t quoted it in full but I have taken note of all of it. Next time I get on, I’ll start farming the Oakensoul ring. I’ll check to see how much Flame Blossom I have in my sticker book. Are Khajiit best for mag builds as well as stam?

What weapons should I be using? I’m pretty certain I don’t have a Flame Blossom fire staff, but I notice that Order’s Wrath is craftable. Should I be wearing 5/5, the Oakensoul ring and one piece of a spell damage monster set? Also, would you recommend being a vampire?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Khrogo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Lots of ways to gank, but I think the easiest way to break into ganking is on a mageblade with an oakensoul setup. Oakensoul wildly simplifies (eliminates) your need for any type of pre-buff. It also builds in some tankiness to allow for an escape.

I suggest mageblade over stamblade mostly because it means you can infinite spam cloak without worrying about it. As a ganker, you are ALWAYS in stealth unless your are executing your gank/burst combo. Concealed weapon also makes for a great spammable and it is magic based, it also gives a damage boost out of stealth, off balance from flank, and minor expedition (speed is important on a ganker, also why vamp is generally preferred for the stealth speed passives).

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, it’s not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

You’re an absolute legend. Thanks for the amazingly comprehensive answer. I haven’t quoted it in full but I have taken note of all of it. Next time I get on, I’ll start farming the Oakensoul ring. I’ll check to see how much Flame Blossom I have in my sticker book. Are Khajiit best for mag builds as well as stam?

What weapons should I be using? I’m pretty certain I don’t have a Flame Blossom fire staff, but I notice that Order’s Wrath is craftable. Should I be wearing 5/5, the Oakensoul ring and one piece of a spell damage monster set? Also, would you recommend being a vampire?

Vamp, yes.

Kahjiit, yes.

Gear setup as you mentioned, yes. 5/5 Oakensoul, monster, all divines. Keep in mind, this is not the only way to gank, but I think its a good way to get your feet wet.

Flame blossom is not a bad farm, also because orders wrath is craftable, you can use that for weapons. The only real consideration is the amount of medium armor you decide to run. Flame blossom is light, but assuming you get the Jewelry, you can still run up to 4 medium armor pieces if needed (flame blossom would be one neck, one ring, other is oakensoul, and 3 body pieces). Other body pieces would be 3 Orders Wrath, 1 monster set (spell damage). Weapons would be OW.

Weapons, you want DW, potentially both axes, or maybe one axe, one dagger. Lets do some crit math. Goal is 125% to your crit damage modifier (not your crit chance), you have base 50%, so you need 75%.

Khajiit Passive: 12%
Nightblade Passive 10%
Fighting Finesse CP passive 8%
Backstabber CP passive 10% (when flanking)
Minor Force 10% (from oakensoul).
Orders Wrath 8%

Total 58%.

Those are all pretty much no brainers, only exception might be to drop Orders Wrath for another proc set if you can make up for it elsewhere. That is 58% so now you need another 17%, 25% if you dont run OW. I would start with an OW setup.

This is where you have some flexibility:

Medium armor gives 2% per piece worn.
Shadow mundus with 7/7 divines gives 18%.
Axes give 6% each.

The other thing I would focus on balancing against your crit damage modifier is your crit chance. You certainly want more than 50%, with 60% I would say as your target. Better crit chance means your ganks will be successful more often, crit damage effects the ceiling of your burst, if that makes sense.

The old oakensoul gave you major force (20%), so it meant you could run double procs, slot channeled acceleration for minor force, and easily get there without any of those three. After the oakensoul nerfs, you need to make tradeoffs. It was broken OP at launch, now its powerful but not over the top.

All 3 of the above have a crit chance counter part:

Light armor gives crit chance (dont wear any heavy armor) vs. medium's crit damage.
Thief Mundus gives crit chance vs. Shadow's crit damage.
Daggers give crit chance vs Axe's crit damage.

So options include:

-Double axes and 2-3 pieces of medium armor with thief mundus(I wouldnt worry too much about being one point shy).
-Shadow mundus, with daggers, and all light (light is also nice for the penetration)
-One Axe, one dagger and 5-6 pieces of medium armor.

All will put you in the 124-126% range for your crit damage modifier. I honestly dont know which will result in the most crit chance, but mathematically, that's the one you want. My instinct is that you want to keep Thief mundus if possible. I think I would start with the first option.

In terms of skills, you want Incap for an ultimate, Concealed weapon, Elemental weapon, and cloak. After that you have some flexibility. You could stack fighters guild skills for more weapon damage. You could slot a self heal or shield (probably advisable at first). You could slot channeled acceleration for the speed (the minor force is redundant and doesnt stack). A skill like lotus fan for a gap closer, sometimes useful to open a gank. An execute like killers blade if you need to finish them off.

You should slot ele weapon to buff your first LA. This is the approach I use most of the time. Without ele weapon, you should open with a HA into incap, with ele weapon, you should open with a Light attack into incap. HAs into an ultimate sometimes get a little glitchy and dont fire the way you want.

Edit: another option to slot is Eviscerate. I don't love the execute (killers blade) option, as the window is so narrow. You are often better off with another concealed weapon or perhaps something like Eviscerate. Its a riskier approach because it costs health, but it will hit harder especially if you arent at full health. The most deadly gankers our there actually dump health with Spell Symetry as part of their pre-buff routine. Eviscerate and several sets scale off your missing health. It's risky and NOT the way to start, but boy do you hit hard. You also will get absolutely wrecked if you miss. Haha. Titanborn and True-sworn fury are the two sets to look at if you want to get into dumping health.

Good luck out there. People will hate me for saying this, but I would practice ganking in IC. Targets are a little squishier than you will find in Cyro. You are gonna get caught and you are gonna die. It takes some practice.

derkaiserliche

You should start with the red buff in the jungle and then you could head to the toplane for a first blood gank.

Just be careful if your toplaner is pushed back too far, otherwise the minions could deal a lot of damage to both of you.

Thecompton73

As Oreyn_Bearclaw says, there are "lots of ways to gank".

I've been having quite a bit of luck using a DW/Bow setup with the Master weapon Stinging Slashes set and lots of penetration and fairly high WD.
I run 6 med, 1 light with Heartland Conqueror on my body plus 2 piece Balorgh's.
One ring and neck of Agility (these could be swapped with 2 pieces of Endurance, Druids braid, Trainee or even Eagle eye) and The Ring of the Wild Hunt mythic.
My bow right now is just a 2 piece with 129 wd/sd as a bonus but ideally I'd like to get the master bow or the vateshran bow to use with the build.
I have a 1H axe nirhoned in my main hand and a sharpened dagger in my offhand. Heartland buffs the nirn to 30% more sd/wd and the sharpened to 3276 pen. I run sharpened on my bow for 6552 pen.
I also run the Lover mundus with divines and the DW bar totals 12.2 pen and the Bow bar is 15.5 pen. A full Balorgh's pushes those up to nearly 25k and 28K.
I run all infused damage for jewelry and vamp stage 2 for the 300 damage out of stealth.
My race is a Woodelf, not ideal for max damage but he does has a pen bonus and the speed and fall damage reduction bonuses help escaping from failed ganks.
I run concealed weapon for the passive speed and damage on my front DW bar. I also run double dot poisons on that bar. With a stam potion my weapon crit is 30%. My crit damage is 82%
My gank rotation itself is simple:
If I have my ulti (the higher the better of course) and the target has less than 32K health I stealth in and hit them with Dawnbreaker-->la-->Rending Slashes-->la-->Whirlwind. DB always crits, then before they break free the Rending hits with the direct damage, the first tick of hemorrhaging and hopefully the first ticks of the double poison along with the first tick of the DB dot. At that point Whirlwind combined with the second ticks of poison, hemorrhage, DB and the first of tick of Rending usually cleans them up before they can heal out.
If I don't have an ulti the rotation is a bit more complicated as I'll start on Bow and do Lethal arrow-->la-->Poison injection-->bar swap-->Rending slashes-->la-->whirlwind.
If I do the bow to dw rotation and include an DB ultimate after the bar swap I've successfully ganked Wardens with 37K health.

Khrogo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Khrogo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Good luck out there. People will hate me for saying this, but I would practice ganking in IC. Targets are a little squishier than you will find in Cyro. You are gonna get caught and you are gonna die. It takes some practice.

Another incredibly insightful response. You have equipped me with all the information to get started. I really can’t thank you enough. I have just logged in to start pulling together the gear for the build you’ve suggested. My first successful kill will be dedicated to you, my friend!

Thecompton73 wrote: »

As Oreyn_Bearclaw says, there are "lots of ways to gank".

I've been having quite a bit of luck using a DW/Bow setup with the Master weapon Stinging Slashes set and lots of penetration and fairly high WD.
I run 6 med, 1 light with Heartland Conqueror on my body plus 2 piece Balorgh's.
One ring and neck of Agility (these could be swapped with 2 pieces of Endurance, Druids braid, Trainee or even Eagle eye) and The Ring of the Wild Hunt mythic.

Thanks for sharing this. Some great advice here. I saw Heartland Conqueror mentioned by someone else. Having been away from the game for a couple of years, the meta has changed a lot. Fortunately, I have the Wild Hunt ring already. I also have a stamblade ready for action. Once I am more familiar with the basics, I will definitely try out your suggestions and see how I get along with them. Thanks again

Khrogo

Not sure what happened in my post above. My bad.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Good luck out there. People will hate me for saying this, but I would practice ganking in IC. Targets are a little squishier than you will find in Cyro. You are gonna get caught and you are gonna die. It takes some practice.

Another incredibly insightful response. I have so much to go one here, everything I need to get started. Truly invaluable advice. I really can’t thank you enough. I’ve just logged in to start pulling together the gear for your build. I have some farming to do. Once I am all set-up, my first successful kill is dedicated to you, my friend!

Thecompton73 wrote: »

As Oreyn_Bearclaw says, there are "lots of ways to gank".

I've been having quite a bit of luck using a DW/Bow setup with the Master weapon Stinging Slashes set and lots of penetration and fairly high WD.
I run 6 med, 1 light with Heartland Conqueror on my body plus 2 piece Balorgh's.
One ring and neck of Agility (these could be swapped with 2 pieces of Endurance, Druids braid, Trainee or even Eagle eye) and The Ring of the Wild Hunt mythic.

Thanks for sharing this. Some great advice here. I saw Heartland Conqueror mentioned by someone else. Having been away from the game for a couple of years, the meta has changed a lot. Fortunately, I have the Wild Hunt ring already. I also have a stamblade ready for action. Once I am more familiar with the basics, I will definitely try out your suggestions and see how I get along with them. Thanks again

Psiion

Greetings,

Seeing as this thread pertains to advice about Combat, we have moved this thread to a section we feel is more appropriate. We appreciate your understanding.

Thecompton73

Khrogo wrote: »

Not sure what happened in my post above. My bad.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Good luck out there. People will hate me for saying this, but I would practice ganking in IC. Targets are a little squishier than you will find in Cyro. You are gonna get caught and you are gonna die. It takes some practice.

Another incredibly insightful response. I have so much to go one here, everything I need to get started. Truly invaluable advice. I really can’t thank you enough. I’ve just logged in to start pulling together the gear for your build. I have some farming to do. Once I am all set-up, my first successful kill is dedicated to you, my friend!

Thecompton73 wrote: »

As Oreyn_Bearclaw says, there are "lots of ways to gank".

I've been having quite a bit of luck using a DW/Bow setup with the Master weapon Stinging Slashes set and lots of penetration and fairly high WD.
I run 6 med, 1 light with Heartland Conqueror on my body plus 2 piece Balorgh's.
One ring and neck of Agility (these could be swapped with 2 pieces of Endurance, Druids braid, Trainee or even Eagle eye) and The Ring of the Wild Hunt mythic.

Thanks for sharing this. Some great advice here. I saw Heartland Conqueror mentioned by someone else. Having been away from the game for a couple of years, the meta has changed a lot. Fortunately, I have the Wild Hunt ring already. I also have a stamblade ready for action. Once I am more familiar with the basics, I will definitely try out your suggestions and see how I get along with them. Thanks again

I really like Heartland Conqueror because it gives you so much flexibility in the build just by changing traits on your weapons. You can use it to give yourself a bunch of penatration or crit chance, or wd/sd or to pretty much guarantee you'll apply status effects on damage, or if you want to brawl you can get a bunch of resistance from it.

Elendir2am

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, its not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

When PvEers and casuals show their hate for IC and gankers, they get advice to build more tanky to prevent easy kill. Yet you mark them as trolls, because they don't let gankers one shot kill them. It is really weird perspective.

Artim_X

Elendir2am wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, its not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

When PvEers and casuals show their hate for IC and gankers, they get advice to build more tanky to prevent easy kill. Yet you mark them as trolls, because they don't let gankers one shot kill them. It is really weird perspective.

A troll tank is actually a very specific playstyle. Building tanky doesn't automatically make you a troll tank. For instance, I use impenetrable trait on all my gear, have 28k+ health, and have around 25k resistance, but I'm am not a troll tank and I'm wearing 5 light armor pieces. I could survive a gank if I'm paying attention and heal up/counter right away, but if I'm distracted there are setups that will successfully gank me.

A troll tank has an unreasonable amount of health, resistance, block mitigation, and healing. It gets to the point where as long as they hold block and activate skills it will take 5-10 players to actually bring them down. These types of players are the worse choices for ganking. Low health targets around 25k or lower tend to be made of paper and are worthwhile targets.

Context for why it's a troll build:

1. These players can solo flag a keep and it would force players to stop what they're doing to gather enough people to bring them down as they continue to keep a keep flagged

2. They may serve as a districtaction while the main group takes an objective on the map.

3. They might be bait for bomb builds to delete all surrounding players.

4. They can cause problems when trying to maintain control of a flag, as enemy players focus on them while their allies kill these players.

Elendir2am

I agree with you, that "troll tank" is about play style.
A lot of people would mark "troll tank" anybody, they cannot kill. But if you force to duel a tank, who isnt interested in, then it is your doing not their.
Then there is a lot of situation, when it is questionable who trolls who.

Caribou77

Any build designed to spam one button, whether it’s block, howl, whirling blades, or dizzy, suggests a certain level of moronic intent.

robpr

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Elendir2am wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Understand that a true ganker is kill or be killed, so you need to pick your targets wisely and hit them from behind. If you try to gank a troll tank holding block, its not going to do much. That said, you can absolutely burst an unsuspecting tank. If your gank fails, cloak and reset the fight. My rule of thumb is never be exposed for more than 3 global cooldowns. 2 should be enough, but sometimes you need the third.

When PvEers and casuals show their hate for IC and gankers, they get advice to build more tanky to prevent easy kill. Yet you mark them as trolls, because they don't let gankers one shot kill them. It is really weird perspective.

@Elendir2am

I dont think you understand what I mean. When I say troll tank, I am talking about the players that literally build so 20 players can beat on them. They cant kill anything but they are just damage sponges to serve as a distraction. AKA, they are trolling the pugs so their alliance can accomplish an objective. You really don't see them in IC.

In IC, especially if you are a PVE'er, you should absolutely build some tankiness into your build so you can survive a gank and recover. Most players don't, but they should. I would also never call them trolls.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

robpr wrote: »

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Unless I am missing something, I think you have that backwards. Elemental weapon does not pull you out of stealth unless that has been recently changed (havent been on my ganker in a few months). So yes, pre buff with ele weapon, you then open with a light attack (procs ele weapon and your proc set), you then incap (which stuns), you then hit with LA>concealed weapon/surprise attack (maybe twice).

I prefer Concealed weapon for a few reasons. One, the speed boost is nice, and two, you get a damage boost after leaving stealth, three, it costs magic, so on a magic based ganker, its a bit better IMO. Its easy to get spammy trying to finish an opponent, and last thing you want to do is burn all your stam so you cant escape. Surprise attack is probably better for a stam player. It does guarantee a crit, so that is appealing, but your concealed weapon should crit more than half the time anyway, and the damage boost I believe gives it a slightly higher ceiling, but also a lower floor as it wont always crit.

Ganking takes a little bit of luck/crit RNG, no question. You can execute the same burst against the same character. Sometimes it will get them, sometimes it wont. I generally build for the highest ceiling possible, and understand that each gank attempt is a throw of the dice. If they dont come up your way, you cloak and reset.

Necrotech_Master

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Unless I am missing something, I think you have that backwards. Elemental weapon does not pull you out of stealth unless that has been recently changed (havent been on my ganker in a few months). So yes, pre buff with ele weapon, you then open with a light attack (procs ele weapon and your proc set), you then incap (which stuns), you then hit with LA>concealed weapon/surprise attack (maybe twice).

I prefer Concealed weapon for a few reasons. One, the speed boost is nice, and two, you get a damage boost after leaving stealth, three, it costs magic, so on a magic based ganker, its a bit better IMO. Its easy to get spammy trying to finish an opponent, and last thing you want to do is burn all your stam so you cant escape. Surprise attack is probably better for a stam player. It does guarantee a crit, so that is appealing, but your concealed weapon should crit more than half the time anyway, and the damage boost I believe gives it a slightly higher ceiling, but also a lower floor as it wont always crit.

Ganking takes a little bit of luck/crit RNG, no question. You can execute the same burst against the same character. Sometimes it will get them, sometimes it wont. I generally build for the highest ceiling possible, and understand that each gank attempt is a throw of the dice. If they dont come up your way, you cloak and reset.

i think they changed it sometime in the past 6-12 months that elemental weapon/crystal weapon pulls you out of stealth on activation

they also changed overload to pull you out of stealth on use as well (though i think this was more of a fix)

DrNukenstein

Ignore crit chance, unless the sets you want to use have it. Your crouch heavy is a guaranteed crit, if cloaked and timed properly the incap will crit too, and if you surprise attack after that it is a 3rd guaranteed crit in the combo. Stat priority for a strong gank build is WD/SD>Crit Damage=Penetration>pool stat (go with MAG, for more damage and better set options). If you push your toolies and pimp your cooked crits hard enough, you don't need any thing else for your combo.

You should use surprise attack instead of concealed for ganking. Think of the crit as a proc that you include in your build. The concealed weapon damage boost doesn't consistently apply to the opener, and most ganks that are going to be successful don't require minor expedition. You'd be surprised how easy it is to keep your stam up on a full mag build just with medium armor, heavy weaves leeching strikes, and potion.

Good gank pre-buffs are evasion, major sorc/brut, minor force, and major expedition. You should have camo hunter on your front bar since it will apply minor berserk to the first hit.

A lot of people recommend a one bar gank build, but I wouldn't. The back bar is for tricks. A really good use I've found for my back bar lately is using an infused masters inferno staff. You can open with la>clench, cancel the animation with a weapon swap and it will always trigger front barred procs with that spicy 1k damage boost. Some other favorite back bars are rallying cry (can be used as a gank buff, makes room for 1trainee+markyn), and the Vateshran 2hander (extra proc, timed burst heal, stam regen, non pot sorc/brut source). Swapping became very easy when I bound it to right stick on controller.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Unless I am missing something, I think you have that backwards. Elemental weapon does not pull you out of stealth unless that has been recently changed (havent been on my ganker in a few months). So yes, pre buff with ele weapon, you then open with a light attack (procs ele weapon and your proc set), you then incap (which stuns), you then hit with LA>concealed weapon/surprise attack (maybe twice).

I prefer Concealed weapon for a few reasons. One, the speed boost is nice, and two, you get a damage boost after leaving stealth, three, it costs magic, so on a magic based ganker, its a bit better IMO. Its easy to get spammy trying to finish an opponent, and last thing you want to do is burn all your stam so you cant escape. Surprise attack is probably better for a stam player. It does guarantee a crit, so that is appealing, but your concealed weapon should crit more than half the time anyway, and the damage boost I believe gives it a slightly higher ceiling, but also a lower floor as it wont always crit.

Ganking takes a little bit of luck/crit RNG, no question. You can execute the same burst against the same character. Sometimes it will get them, sometimes it wont. I generally build for the highest ceiling possible, and understand that each gank attempt is a throw of the dice. If they dont come up your way, you cloak and reset.

i think they changed it sometime in the past 6-12 months that elemental weapon/crystal weapon pulls you out of stealth on activation

they also changed overload to pull you out of stealth on use as well (though i think this was more of a fix)

You very well may be right on that. I dont believe it was doing so when Oakensoul originally came out. I spent most of last MYM on my ganker, it was so broken. Honestly you didnt even need ele weapon. If Calurrions and Flame blossom both proc'ed with all those buffs, your target was dead every time. I updated my build to the flame blossom/OW setup after the Oakensoul nerfs. It still worked, but it wasnt quite as good, havent played it very much since though TBH.

DrNukenstein wrote: »

Ignore crit chance, unless the sets you want to use have it. Your crouch heavy is a guaranteed crit, if cloaked and timed properly the incap will crit too, and if you surprise attack after that it is a 3rd guaranteed crit in the combo. Stat priority for a strong gank build is WD/SD>Crit Damage=Penetration>pool stat (go with MAG, for more damage and better set options). If you push your toolies and pimp your cooked crits hard enough, you don't need any thing else for your combo.

You should use surprise attack instead of concealed for ganking. Think of the crit as a proc that you include in your build. The concealed weapon damage boost doesn't consistently apply to the opener, and most ganks that are going to be successful don't require minor expedition. You'd be surprised how easy it is to keep your stam up on a full mag build just with medium armor, heavy weaves leeching strikes, and potion.

Good gank pre-buffs are evasion, major sorc/brut, minor force, and major expedition. You should have camo hunter on your front bar since it will apply minor berserk to the first hit.

A lot of people recommend a one bar gank build, but I wouldn't. The back bar is for tricks. A really good use I've found for my back bar lately is using an infused masters inferno staff. You can open with la>clench, cancel the animation with a weapon swap and it will always trigger front barred procs with that spicy 1k damage boost. Some other favorite back bars are rallying cry (can be used as a gank buff, makes room for 1trainee+markyn), and the Vateshran 2hander (extra proc, timed burst heal, stam regen, non pot sorc/brut source). Swapping became very easy when I bound it to right stick on controller.

I agree with most of that. The best gankers these days arent using Oakensoul I would wager, I just think it simplifies getting your feet wet. You really dont need to worry about pre-buffing at all. Back bar certainly allows for more complicated/powerful burst combos, and can also help you get out of dodge when your gank fails. I just generally advise starting simple and then expanding as you get better.

Necrotech_Master

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Unless I am missing something, I think you have that backwards. Elemental weapon does not pull you out of stealth unless that has been recently changed (havent been on my ganker in a few months). So yes, pre buff with ele weapon, you then open with a light attack (procs ele weapon and your proc set), you then incap (which stuns), you then hit with LA>concealed weapon/surprise attack (maybe twice).

I prefer Concealed weapon for a few reasons. One, the speed boost is nice, and two, you get a damage boost after leaving stealth, three, it costs magic, so on a magic based ganker, its a bit better IMO. Its easy to get spammy trying to finish an opponent, and last thing you want to do is burn all your stam so you cant escape. Surprise attack is probably better for a stam player. It does guarantee a crit, so that is appealing, but your concealed weapon should crit more than half the time anyway, and the damage boost I believe gives it a slightly higher ceiling, but also a lower floor as it wont always crit.

Ganking takes a little bit of luck/crit RNG, no question. You can execute the same burst against the same character. Sometimes it will get them, sometimes it wont. I generally build for the highest ceiling possible, and understand that each gank attempt is a throw of the dice. If they dont come up your way, you cloak and reset.

i think they changed it sometime in the past 6-12 months that elemental weapon/crystal weapon pulls you out of stealth on activation

they also changed overload to pull you out of stealth on use as well (though i think this was more of a fix)

You very well may be right on that. I dont believe it was doing so when Oakensoul originally came out. I spent most of last MYM on my ganker, it was so broken. Honestly you didnt even need ele weapon. If Calurrions and Flame blossom both proc'ed with all those buffs, your target was dead every time. I updated my build to the flame blossom/OW setup after the Oakensoul nerfs. It still worked, but it wasnt quite as good, havent played it very much since though TBH.

yeah i think since high isle there have been a lot of nerfs that make the ganks a bit harder, but definitely not impossible

• caluurion nerf (which i dont think was ever documented in the patch notes)
• crystal weapon nerf (U35)
• crystal weapon/elemental weapon pulling you out of stealth

ive seen a lot of bow gankers lately running around using stuff like scavenging demise (possibly combined with something like swamp raider), but i dont know the rest of their build, but it definitely can hurt

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

robpr wrote: »

"Easiest" and moderate effective gank is to run something like Swamp Rider + Scavenging Demise and shooting Lethal Arrow from distance and from stealth (crit that triggers Scav) then while Snipe is in air, shoot Silver Bolts and end it with Toxic Barrage ult. Won't work against Wardens with their Slab up or those last 5 DKs that still run Wings, but all squishy targets should fall. Do not shoot at people with sword and board as if they get one hit and survive they most likely cast Spell Wall and reflect all arrows back to you.

More advanced gank, get to enemy's back, cast Elemental Weapon/Crushing Weapon (will not pull out of stealth, or was it patched?) then light attack cancelled by Concealed/Surprise in the flank. While stunned use Incap. But if target survives you probably will be toast in few hits.

I personally despise stealth as ganking tool as opposed to disengage tool, it forces everyone to run Magelight/Detect pots 24/7 because somewhere there is always that invisible *** with enormous single attack damage but dies when you breathe in their general direction.

Unless I am missing something, I think you have that backwards. Elemental weapon does not pull you out of stealth unless that has been recently changed (havent been on my ganker in a few months). So yes, pre buff with ele weapon, you then open with a light attack (procs ele weapon and your proc set), you then incap (which stuns), you then hit with LA>concealed weapon/surprise attack (maybe twice).

I prefer Concealed weapon for a few reasons. One, the speed boost is nice, and two, you get a damage boost after leaving stealth, three, it costs magic, so on a magic based ganker, its a bit better IMO. Its easy to get spammy trying to finish an opponent, and last thing you want to do is burn all your stam so you cant escape. Surprise attack is probably better for a stam player. It does guarantee a crit, so that is appealing, but your concealed weapon should crit more than half the time anyway, and the damage boost I believe gives it a slightly higher ceiling, but also a lower floor as it wont always crit.

Ganking takes a little bit of luck/crit RNG, no question. You can execute the same burst against the same character. Sometimes it will get them, sometimes it wont. I generally build for the highest ceiling possible, and understand that each gank attempt is a throw of the dice. If they dont come up your way, you cloak and reset.

i think they changed it sometime in the past 6-12 months that elemental weapon/crystal weapon pulls you out of stealth on activation

they also changed overload to pull you out of stealth on use as well (though i think this was more of a fix)

You very well may be right on that. I dont believe it was doing so when Oakensoul originally came out. I spent most of last MYM on my ganker, it was so broken. Honestly you didnt even need ele weapon. If Calurrions and Flame blossom both proc'ed with all those buffs, your target was dead every time. I updated my build to the flame blossom/OW setup after the Oakensoul nerfs. It still worked, but it wasnt quite as good, havent played it very much since though TBH.

yeah i think since high isle there have been a lot of nerfs that make the ganks a bit harder, but definitely not impossible

• caluurion nerf (which i dont think was ever documented in the patch notes)
• crystal weapon nerf (U35)
• crystal weapon/elemental weapon pulling you out of stealth

ive seen a lot of bow gankers lately running around using stuff like scavenging demise (possibly combined with something like swamp raider), but i dont know the rest of their build, but it definitely can hurt

Worst part was they put Caluurion Jewelry in the golden vendor like the weekend before the nerf, of course I bought some.

Edit: Also, they really did hit Oakensoul where it hurts for ganking (it was certainly warranted). It originally gave Major Berserk and Major Force. Both Minor versions are easy to source as a ganker, Minor Force from Channeled Acceleration, Minor Berserk from Cammo Hunter. So practically, you would have all 4 buffs. Now it only gives the minor versions, and the major versions really arent practical to source on a ganker. So its basically a 20% damage loss and now you have to actually work to get to the crit damage cap. Pre nerf, a Khajiit NB could get there with 3 pieces of medium armor, CP, Oakensoul, and channeled acceleration, so practically, just one skill cast for a prebuff.

cuddles_with_wroble

Khrogo wrote: »

I am a fairly experienced PvE player, but I am hopeless in PvP unless I’m on a tank or healer, and then I can’t really kill anything. I generally avoid PvP zones. Recently, however, I returned to the game and got the sudden urge to gank people. I know, I’m a bad person and I should feel bad. I guess I’m just changing things up to keep them fresh. I’ve been ganked so many times in the Imperial City, and every time it happens, I feel conflicting emotions: hatred and respect.

I tried yanking once, years ago, and it went horribly wrong. I don’t think my target was even wearing heavy armour yet I still ended up dead. Lol. But I will not be discouraged. I am ready to try again. I have two Nightblades, one stam (Khajiit) and one mag (Dark Elf). I would just like some tips on which would be the more beginner-friendly? Also, for stamblades, is melee or bow better? Any tips, advice or build recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks

ill be really honest with you, if you wanna gank step 1 is to get a bunch of friends and step 2 is to spam people with multi bow ults or soul assult.

you CAN realistically gank this patch but its not reliable at all no matter what build you run.

sea serpents giving people 40% damage reduction at full health plus the fact that everyone on pc runs miats makes it very very hard to gank people. the sad truth of the matter is that if you dont 1 shot them when you gank them... they are more than likely gonna live just bcs their healing will be higher than your damage.

so like i said you best bet is to just spam people down in a group of gankers.

Thecompton73

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Khrogo wrote: »

I am a fairly experienced PvE player, but I am hopeless in PvP unless I’m on a tank or healer, and then I can’t really kill anything. I generally avoid PvP zones. Recently, however, I returned to the game and got the sudden urge to gank people. I know, I’m a bad person and I should feel bad. I guess I’m just changing things up to keep them fresh. I’ve been ganked so many times in the Imperial City, and every time it happens, I feel conflicting emotions: hatred and respect.

I tried yanking once, years ago, and it went horribly wrong. I don’t think my target was even wearing heavy armour yet I still ended up dead. Lol. But I will not be discouraged. I am ready to try again. I have two Nightblades, one stam (Khajiit) and one mag (Dark Elf). I would just like some tips on which would be the more beginner-friendly? Also, for stamblades, is melee or bow better? Any tips, advice or build recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks

ill be really honest with you, if you wanna gank step 1 is to get a bunch of friends and step 2 is to spam people with multi bow ults or soul assult.

you CAN realistically gank this patch but its not reliable at all no matter what build you run.

sea serpents giving people 40% damage reduction at full health plus the fact that everyone on pc runs miats makes it very very hard to gank people. the sad truth of the matter is that if you dont 1 shot them when you gank them... they are more than likely gonna live just bcs their healing will be higher than your damage.

so like i said you best bet is to just spam people down in a group of gankers.

9 out 10 people I eliminate would say it reliable.

cuddles_with_wroble

Show me 10 reliable gank clips. I wanna see who your killing

p00tx

How to Properly Gank

Step 1: Please don't

gariondavey

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Show me 10 reliable gank clips. I wanna see who your killing

Agreed, but on 35k+ targets who have their buffs and heals up

Thecompton73

gariondavey wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Show me 10 reliable gank clips. I wanna see who your killing

Agreed, but on 35k+ targets who have their buffs and heals up

If you're trying to gank 35K health targets with buffs and heals up it's no wonder you're not having success. That's just being a bad Nb if you're picking those targets. And as for providing video evidence, why would I care if you believe me or not? That's so much trouble to prove something to people I don't know and who's opinions don't really effect me in any way.
You all have your fun being internet skeptics and I'll have mine successfully ganking people.

cuddles_with_wroble

That’s the average player in cyro tho… a 30k hp target with sea serp

gariondavey

Thecompton73 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Show me 10 reliable gank clips. I wanna see who your killing

Agreed, but on 35k+ targets who have their buffs and heals up

If you're trying to gank 35K health targets with buffs and heals up it's no wonder you're not having success. That's just being a bad Nb if you're picking those targets. And as for providing video evidence, why would I care if you believe me or not? That's so much trouble to prove something to people I don't know and who's opinions don't really effect me in any way.
You all have your fun being internet skeptics and I'll have mine successfully ganking people.

I'm not mad you aren't supplying proof of your claim...I'm just disappointed

cuddles_with_wroble

Thecompton73 wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

cuddles_with_wroble wrote: »

Show me 10 reliable gank clips. I wanna see who your killing

Agreed, but on 35k+ targets who have their buffs and heals up

If you're trying to gank 35K health targets with buffs and heals up it's no wonder you're not having success. That's just being a bad Nb if you're picking those targets. And as for providing video evidence, why would I care if you believe me or not? That's so much trouble to prove something to people I don't know and who's opinions don't really effect me in any way.
You all have your fun being internet skeptics and I'll have mine successfully ganking people.

We aren’t really random people tho. 2 high end pvpers, I of who very often ganks in cyro (normally in groups of 2 or 3 these days) I agree you should just only kill the 20k hp players… however that requires you to really really pick targets and and just kinda hope you 1 shot them and no one heals them. Even if they live with 4 hp, burst heals normally hit players for 10-15k so they are back to 60% hp instantly and you have to now re try when they are on edge. It’s just not reliable to gank solo these days so your build doesn’t really matter. In full gank builds, I’ve seen people survive 3 full 500 balorghs bow ulti and soul assault ganks from us. And before you say it… no it’s not a build issue, you pretty much can’t get higher damage than the build we currently run.