Magicka Sorcerer Suggestions and Ideas

axi

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

What is wrong in sorc being OP.

It doesnt have to be OP. It would be sufficient if it would be on par. Or at least somehow close to the power of any other class like it was a few patches back, where it was already underperforming (except a few stam / hybrid sorc specs) but at least viable.

Now, well...

I disagree with the biased opinion that NB is allowed to be OP for however long but sorc needs to balanced. I also disagree that classes need to be balanced

Do you know why so many sorc mains play NB now? Because it is OP.

PVP’ers want to play strong classes because they are fun which the whole point of video game

No one plays a so called balanced class like sorc. Remember when eso pvp was actually good? Do you think everything was balanced back then?

I havn't seen even one person in this thread presenting opinion that that nb being OP is ok.

There is plenty of people who will always jump on current top dog and there is nothing unusual in that. Like yeah right now it's nb so people play it there is no mystery here.

There is a difference between strong and game breaking. Sorc having defense and offense at levels comparable to other classes plus streak on top of that is game breaking.

Nobody says magsorc is balanced atm. it's mediocre and in needs of some tweaks but that doesnt mean it has to be a "massive overhaul"

So sorc buffs are game breaking even before they have happened. But there are clearly multiple game breaking buffs with NB.

NB main heal has a battle spirit exception. Another example is spectral bow hits harder than any ultimate in the game.

When mag dk or magplar were top dog they got gutted almost immediately.

What happened when NB was top dog ? . They got more game breaking buffs

Let's be fair to all classes don't you think ? Start buffing classes and worry about the rest later ? Game is boring right now with lot of bottom tier classes.

Yes buffing sorc to have defense and offense comparable to other classes and streak on top of that will be somewhat gamebreaking. And situations like that already happened in the past with sorc so it's not just blind prediction. Yes there are issues with nb being overbuffed with few recent patches. But thing that nb is now overbuffed doesn't suddenly justify overbuffing everyone else. What is the point of repeating the same balance mistake over and over?

No nb main heal do not have battle spirit exception, unless You are talking about its HP cost part which deals oblivion dmg to the user and as such ignores battle spirit same like every other ability in the game with health cost but that is actually a drawback not the benefit. By that logic necromancer's cleansing ability Expunge also "has battle spirit exception" because it costs same amount of HP in PvE and PvP. If healing part of that nb selfheal would ignore battle spirit nb would get like up to 40k heals in PvP from it which is not happening.

Yes spectral bow proc hits hard however the issue isnt with the skill itself but with the amount of secondary effects from other skills and passives that contribute to that. Tooltip of the ability and the core way it works didn't change since many years so it's not the issue with ability itself. Would it still be possible for it to hit harder than ultimates even without sdaid buffs? Yes, but it would be small difference which would be fine due to ability drawbacks and the fact nb does not have any delayed, off GCD burst ability like many other classes do. For example since we are talking about sorc, he can combine frag and curse to hit enemy in the same second, nb do not have tools like that and when You add up curse and frag tooltips they will be close or even higher than spectral bow.

Most recent gutting of mag DK took around a year. Nb isn't top dog for that long. It got really, really strong only recently, up to that point it was strong but within reasonable range.

Overbuffing one class after another isn't "fair to all classes". If we want to finally have somewhat balabnced PvP than the same mistake of just shuffling the top dogs shouldn't be repeated 9th year in a row. Many setups is becoming bottom tier because there is one or two top dogs that leave the rest behind. If sorc defense and offense would become comparable to other classes than that is excatly what would happen. "Worry about the rest later"? Isnt that what You are doing right now with the nb? Are You happy with the current state of the game where developer decided to overbuff nb and "worry about the rest later"?

Nb might see some adjustments but it will still be top tier.

There will never be a significant nerf for NB. A whole lot of game design has been changed just for nb.

We can come back to this post and talk balance when nb is nerfed which is probably gonna be never.

Until then let’s buff other classes even if game breaking or whatever.

That is pure speculation based on no proof at all. Nb had periods when it was strong but also when it was mediocre.

Yes there can be significant nerf for nb. I've said in my previous post that series of buffs that nb got last 3-4 patches was made to counterbalance series of nerfs that nb reviced earlier and which made nb pretty weak. Class was really in a bad spot at some point. Which part of game design was changed just for nb excatly?

Last 2 paragraphs make no sense and contradict each other. You want overbuff every class and then nerf just nb. That sounds like saltiness towards nb rather than wanting some fairness or balance. Saying that everything can go only because nb got buffs is pretty silly.

PhoenixGrey

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

KilianDermoth wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

What is wrong in sorc being OP.

It doesnt have to be OP. It would be sufficient if it would be on par. Or at least somehow close to the power of any other class like it was a few patches back, where it was already underperforming (except a few stam / hybrid sorc specs) but at least viable.

Now, well...

I disagree with the biased opinion that NB is allowed to be OP for however long but sorc needs to balanced. I also disagree that classes need to be balanced

Do you know why so many sorc mains play NB now? Because it is OP.

PVP’ers want to play strong classes because they are fun which the whole point of video game

No one plays a so called balanced class like sorc. Remember when eso pvp was actually good? Do you think everything was balanced back then?

I havn't seen even one person in this thread presenting opinion that that nb being OP is ok.

There is plenty of people who will always jump on current top dog and there is nothing unusual in that. Like yeah right now it's nb so people play it there is no mystery here.

There is a difference between strong and game breaking. Sorc having defense and offense at levels comparable to other classes plus streak on top of that is game breaking.

Nobody says magsorc is balanced atm. it's mediocre and in needs of some tweaks but that doesnt mean it has to be a "massive overhaul"

So sorc buffs are game breaking even before they have happened. But there are clearly multiple game breaking buffs with NB.

NB main heal has a battle spirit exception. Another example is spectral bow hits harder than any ultimate in the game.

When mag dk or magplar were top dog they got gutted almost immediately.

What happened when NB was top dog ? . They got more game breaking buffs

Let's be fair to all classes don't you think ? Start buffing classes and worry about the rest later ? Game is boring right now with lot of bottom tier classes.

Yes buffing sorc to have defense and offense comparable to other classes and streak on top of that will be somewhat gamebreaking. And situations like that already happened in the past with sorc so it's not just blind prediction. Yes there are issues with nb being overbuffed with few recent patches. But thing that nb is now overbuffed doesn't suddenly justify overbuffing everyone else. What is the point of repeating the same balance mistake over and over?

No nb main heal do not have battle spirit exception, unless You are talking about its HP cost part which deals oblivion dmg to the user and as such ignores battle spirit same like every other ability in the game with health cost but that is actually a drawback not the benefit. By that logic necromancer's cleansing ability Expunge also "has battle spirit exception" because it costs same amount of HP in PvE and PvP. If healing part of that nb selfheal would ignore battle spirit nb would get like up to 40k heals in PvP from it which is not happening.

Yes spectral bow proc hits hard however the issue isnt with the skill itself but with the amount of secondary effects from other skills and passives that contribute to that. Tooltip of the ability and the core way it works didn't change since many years so it's not the issue with ability itself. Would it still be possible for it to hit harder than ultimates even without sdaid buffs? Yes, but it would be small difference which would be fine due to ability drawbacks and the fact nb does not have any delayed, off GCD burst ability like many other classes do. For example since we are talking about sorc, he can combine frag and curse to hit enemy in the same second, nb do not have tools like that and when You add up curse and frag tooltips they will be close or even higher than spectral bow.

Most recent gutting of mag DK took around a year. Nb isn't top dog for that long. It got really, really strong only recently, up to that point it was strong but within reasonable range.

Overbuffing one class after another isn't "fair to all classes". If we want to finally have somewhat balabnced PvP than the same mistake of just shuffling the top dogs shouldn't be repeated 9th year in a row. Many setups is becoming bottom tier because there is one or two top dogs that leave the rest behind. If sorc defense and offense would become comparable to other classes than that is excatly what would happen. "Worry about the rest later"? Isnt that what You are doing right now with the nb? Are You happy with the current state of the game where developer decided to overbuff nb and "worry about the rest later"?

Nb might see some adjustments but it will still be top tier.

There will never be a significant nerf for NB. A whole lot of game design has been changed just for nb.

We can come back to this post and talk balance when nb is nerfed which is probably gonna be never.

Until then let’s buff other classes even if game breaking or whatever.

That is pure speculation based on no proof at all. Nb had periods when it was strong but also when it was mediocre.

Yes there can be significant nerf for nb. I've said in my previous post that series of buffs that nb got last 3-4 patches was made to counterbalance series of nerfs that nb reviced earlier and which made nb pretty weak. Class was really in a bad spot at some point. Which part of game design was changed just for nb excatly?

Last 2 paragraphs make no sense and contradict each other. You want overbuff every class and then nerf just nb. That sounds like saltiness towards nb rather than wanting some fairness or balance. Saying that everything can go only because nb got buffs is pretty silly.

When did I say I want to nerf nb? I honestly do not mind nb being the way it is as long as Sorc gets buffed the way I want it.

If you want to be fair and actually care about balance you have to also care about your main class which already is live with game breaking changes. Or you can talk about all other classes which deserve buffs like nb

What is the point in bringing up game balance keeping only mag sorc in mind.

If you cannot bring up other classes or make a list of nerfs nb deserves then why bring up topics of game balance or justify game breaking changes.

I only talked about buffing mag sorc and never talked about nb until you started implying sorc buffs are game breaking changes.

There is also a difference between a class which is live with game breaking changes versus a class which is bottom tier and no plans to be buffed. Talking about a buff being too strong does not make sense to me at this point. We can get to that when you see PTS buff from ZOS

Major_Soulless

Sorc is struggling in pvp at the moment except for negate which is an incredibly useful ultimate an other thing sorcs suffer with in pvp is losing half of their very strong shield immediately so they are only left with streak. Maybe give them a bit more healing and they will become more than the class with negate

Vulkunne

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

AdamLAD

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

Vulkunne

AdamLAD wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

Who says I didn't read it?

Also I might argue, stacking that much information together isn't really helpful. I mean you know, I could take every class in the game and suggest % modifications but without explaining why this needs to be done that isn't helpful. And this is where the OPs post is weak, there's no justification for that many changes. Don't get me wrong, in some cases there are lots of things I would like to see and I could post an exhaustive itemized list however there's no real justification for making these changes. Its another level of detail that is largely missing and because of that there's no tie in for why we need these changes.

Lots of people want to do different things with Sorc, sure. But before any work is done on the cutting room floor I would say a proper justification (with use case) for even a few changes is exponentially more helpful then throwing together a tall list and saying this is what I would like to see. There's an endless sea of changes people want but what sets them apart is the ones that carry a justification for what is actually needed.

A better idea would be a rewrite of the original post and talk about where these changes are coming from and why they are necessary, what problem are we solving and how does this affect other things. You could talk about PvE, PvP, certain sets. Just tie these more into situations, especially vs other classes and give us a real justification, even if its a much shorter list. As a Mag Sorc player myself, I would love to have a stronger shield and less expensive skills but who wouldn't? That's personal bias, it creates more problems than it solves and is not a real solid justification for making a change to something.

Turtle_Bot

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

Who says I didn't read it?

Also I might argue, stacking that much information together isn't really helpful. I mean you know, I could take every class in the game and suggest % modifications but without explaining why this needs to be done that isn't helpful. And this is where the OPs post is weak, there's no justification for that many changes. Don't get me wrong, in some cases there are lots of things I would like to see and I could post an exhaustive itemized list however there's no real justification for making these changes. Its another level of detail that is largely missing and because of that there's no tie in for why we need these changes.

Lots of people want to do different things with Sorc, sure. But before any work is done on the cutting room floor I would say a proper justification (with use case) for even a few changes is exponentially more helpful then throwing together a tall list and saying this is what I would like to see. There's an endless sea of changes people want but what sets them apart is the ones that carry a justification for what is actually needed.

A better idea would be a rewrite of the original post and talk about where these changes are coming from and why they are necessary, what problem are we solving and how does this affect other things. You could talk about PvE, PvP, certain sets. Just tie these more into situations, especially vs other classes and give us a real justification, even if its a much shorter list. As a Mag Sorc player myself, I would love to have a stronger shield and less expensive skills but who wouldn't? That's personal bias, it creates more problems than it solves and is not a real solid justification for making a change to something.

The explanations for why changes are needed for sorcs is basically what I did on my thread about sorcs here.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621073/sorc-pain-points-and-ideas-on-buffs-changes-and-reworks-to-skills-to-bring-the-class-up-to-par/p1
So, I can understand why it wasn't repeated in this thread, considering the reasons are many and vary differently between different people.
Instead of giving a short list, I went through each skill individually and laid out the issues surrounding it and gave suggestions for possible improvements that could be made in an easy to read, write up of the class.

Yes, it was a long list (sorcs kinda need the long list given the current state of the class, especially outside of PCNA), but it wasn't that everything needed to be changed all at once (although that would be cool for me and many other sorc mains), it was to point out the issues across the entire class kit and give suggestions and options for the dev team to look at, think about and possibly choose (take inspiration) from, when (if) they decide to finally buff the class.
The thread also pointed out the playstyles of the class that I was looking at buffing, that being, non-pet builds and options for both shielded and non-shielded builds as those are the most in need of buffing.

Many others in that thread also put forward the points that are (in their view) in the most urgent need of buffing and even making the smallest list possible, to actually bring the class up to par, most posters agreed and put forward in their posted lists that it required much more than just a couple of tweaks or adjustments to 1 or 2 skills as even the smallest lists had about 4-6 decently sized changes/reworks on them, including changing how some skills functioned entirely.

That is the main reason why most sorcs that are talking about buffing the class currently end up making such long lists, the class has been forgotten about/ignored for so long now that it's become inevitable that the amount of changes that is required to bring it back as a class on its own and not just as a class that can exploit bugged/broken/overpowered sets, will be equivalent to what we saw for dk in U30/31(?), mag nb in U34 and mag wardens from this update (U36).

It is no longer a simple fix for sorcs, buff the current state of the class via numbers or small tweaks only and you risk bowsorcs becoming a real issue again, especially with the current hybridisation of the game and how unbalanced set design is currently.
It is also why I made my thread back when U36 was nearing the end of its pts cycle, as we roughly knew what U36 was going to be by then and that was going to give the dev team well over 3 months to look at my suggestions and try different options out internally should they choose to buff sorcs for U37 as given that that is the longest gap between patches, it gives them the most time to come up with something to buff the class and test those buffs out properly.

axi

AdamLAD wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

If You think that this thread "helps them out" You are largely mistaken. ZoS devs even said in one of the streams that they don't take players suggestion into consideration. They didn't say it like that but the general context was that they are interrested in knowing what what are the pain points of certain class and what people think is too strong or too weak but as for how it will be solved it's completly up to devs and they won't take players suggestions into consideration.

If You look at history of balance changes You can see they weren't lying and You can't even blame them for that. There are thousands of different suggestions happening on forum alone every week. Going even through a portion of them would be already a full time job and they have also other things to do. They are just humans with limited time to do their job so some feedback simply must be ignored.

PhoenixGrey

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

I have wrecked sorc emps on my mag sorc when mag sorc was in a stronger spot.
Right now I can easily wreck a mag sorc emp on my nb.

However, I m not sure why you are would go to the lengths of giving examples of emp to justify mag sorc does not need buffs.

Or does everyone need to become emp to feel strong on their mag sorc?

PhoenixGrey

axi wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

If You think that this thread "helps them out" You are largely mistaken. ZoS devs even said in one of the streams that they don't take players suggestion into consideration. They didn't say it like that but the general context was that they are interrested in knowing what what are the pain points of certain class and what people think is too strong or too weak but as for how it will be solved it's completly up to devs and they won't take players suggestions into consideration.

If You look at history of balance changes You can see they weren't lying and You can't even blame them for that. There are thousands of different suggestions happening on forum alone every week. Going even through a portion of them would be already a full time job and they have also other things to do. They are just humans with limited time to do their job so some feedback simply must be ignored.

You literally need to play mag sorc for a couple of mins in pvp against nb or dk to find pain points of the class.

It doesn’t need a community for that.

axi

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

axi wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

If you read it, it says that they don't need to implement all the ideas. It's just suggestions to help them out

If You think that this thread "helps them out" You are largely mistaken. ZoS devs even said in one of the streams that they don't take players suggestion into consideration. They didn't say it like that but the general context was that they are interrested in knowing what what are the pain points of certain class and what people think is too strong or too weak but as for how it will be solved it's completly up to devs and they won't take players suggestions into consideration.

If You look at history of balance changes You can see they weren't lying and You can't even blame them for that. There are thousands of different suggestions happening on forum alone every week. Going even through a portion of them would be already a full time job and they have also other things to do. They are just humans with limited time to do their job so some feedback simply must be ignored.

You literally need to play mag sorc for a couple of mins in pvp against nb or dk to find pain points of the class.

It doesn’t need a community for that.

I think You've completly missed the point of what I said. Even if what You are saying would be the truth (but it isn't) it doesn't change the fact that devs want to collect the data about pain points from multiple players instead of relying on their own couple minutes experience as You suggested.

So yes, it requires a community to collect reliable data about class pain points. Relying on personal couple minutes of experience would be a simple road to distaster, so larger data sample is more than needed.

Vulkunne

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

Before I begin, I'd like to say I have played this class for nearly 6 years now. I know it extremely well and all the intricacies that come with it. Whilst people may not agree with everything I am suggesting. There's one thing we can agree on. And that it does definitely need a buff. Personally for me as an individual, its still good. I have been doing very well on mine in ALL types of PvP. However, I would be lying if I did not say I can't feel the raw power difference when playing or fighting other classes. So here is some of the ideas in which zenimax could help out the class. Let us the community tell them what to do. Instead of them spending the time themselves to test

Mechanically, it's not up to par with everything else. It's completely outdated. Now I don't think it's trash. It's just not in a good spot. There's a few ways to fix this issue. Obviously they do not need to implement all these ideas. These are suggestions. The 1st two suggestions are A MUST however in my opinion.

Shields get a direct increase of 20 % to 30% either by just straight-up buffing them or better scaling

Shields need their cost cut by easily 30% to 40%. The cost of them IS RIDICULOUS

Crystal frags need to stun or be undodgeable

Curse needs to apply minor or major breach (I think major would be op)

Force pulse and morphs need to be undodgeable if frags can be dodged

Our execute needs to be buffed by 10% and start at 30%HP, and it shouldn't ever be possible to not be hit by it if you cast it. Stealth and roll dodge shouldn't completely nullify it. It shouldn't be cleansable either as no other execute is

Destro staff passives need a buff as it's trash comparison to every other weapon type

We should have block mitigation with a ward

Harness magicka should give back more magicka AND should give stamina

Light armour should get 66 critical resistance per piece worn

Streak should have an increased base cost and higher ramping cost to prevent people from spamming it to avoid fights. With buffs to defence, you should be encouraged to stay and fight for longer. I would increase its range however

Pets should be 1 bar for PvP only and can be done using Battle spirit. However I'd nerf pets slightly (especially healing) for PvP only and should be untargetable. I hate pets, they are a carry and a nuisance however I do understand people want to use them. So I have mentioned them.

Healing ward needs to be what it used to be a few years ago. 300% instead of 100%. I'd nerf the heal accordingly to be better align with what it gives currently. It's only the shield that should be buffed. Not the heal.

Meteor from mages guild needs a rework. To slow, and TELLS you it's coming. Reduce its cost and increase its speed

Degeneration should have a lower cost. Probably by 20% or make it give a unique buff such as increases your damage done by 1% per cast within 6 seconds up to 5x max. Once at max stats the duration will continue if casted again.

Unholy knowledge passive: should be 10% up from 6%

Persistence passive should be after roll dodging and not blocking

Explotation passive should be major prophecy and should be minor if you already have major active

Rebate passive should give 400 magicka up from 300

Deadric protection passive. Remove health recovery. Nerf it from 20% to 10% and allow it to have magicka and stamina recovery OR since its literally called protection. Increase critical resistance by 300 and gain 660 of each resistance

Expert summoner passive increase from 8% to 15% and reduce the cast of all pet related abilities by 5%

Energized passive: instead of shock damage and physical. It should be all magic damage and physical

Expert mage: buff from 2% to 3%

So... first of all, treating this in all fairness and courtesy...

a) This is too much for one update. These changes would prob take about 6 months and even then, I'm sure some of these ideas would trigger ripple effects in other classes and might not be healthy even if they are right.

b) There's a Sorc (whom I know of) on a certain server and when this guy Emps all hell seems to break loose. Very very hard to stop him.

My prescription is this, let's look at what really needs to be fixed first which should only be a couple of things and if it works, leave it alone. Sorcs are sitting on considerable luxury at the moment and I just don't think massive changes are really going to help anyone.

Add to this c) Sorc is a class that you really must know how to play. I'm not saying OP doesn't or trying to be passive aggressive I'm just saying you can't play Sorc like DK or NB. Its what I would consider a more 'organic' class and not a 'reactionary' class. Being good at Sorc is like knowing how to dance rather than playing as a DK or NB feels more like I'm playing Tennis Ball.

I have wrecked sorc emps on my mag sorc when mag sorc was in a stronger spot.
Right now I can easily wreck a mag sorc emp on my nb.

However, I m not sure why you are would go to the lengths of giving examples of emp to justify mag sorc does not need buffs.

Or does everyone need to become emp to feel strong on their mag sorc?

And I took down many DKs before the DK Wings nerf. DK Wings was never a real obstacle for me to eliminate them, as many players didn't understand how to properly synergize that skill. Although of course, there was this one time when I met my match, was a really strong DK and he didn't cheat or anim cancel even. Just knew how to play. Especially at a time when everyone both in game and 'authorities' from the interwebs kept shouting "DK Wings" "DK Wings" blah blah blah and probably many people bought into the hype thinking "oh I gots to have that" and not really understanding why it mattered, it was just something that 'had to have' and in the end it just made the fights a little more entertaining for me. Sound familiar anyone? >:D

In short, no matter how many DKs I defeated, ultimately no one is infallible. There's always going to be a bigger fish that grabs your attention and starts the conversation over again. Especially if its an Emp or someone using something else really strong like Imperial Physique, because they frequently center the field making it hard (if not virtually impossible) to ignore them as I'm sure others will also agree.

Vulkunne

Major_Soulless wrote: »

Sorc is struggling in pvp at the moment except for negate which is an incredibly useful ultimate an other thing sorcs suffer with in pvp is losing half of their very strong shield immediately so they are only left with streak. Maybe give them a bit more healing and they will become more than the class with negate

I can't disagree with this. Nerfing Vigors made their situation a little worse. Fast burst healing is something my Sorc also struggles with, unless I use a Pet which fixes it but then I have to use a pet... So yeah. Dark Exchange is glitchy and takes a moment to work when I'm under attack, ironically similar to Shade which also is buggy and neither are totally reliable to work when called upon. And with Battle Spirit nerfing your Hardened Ward (which I believe originally the idea was for Hardened to help the Sorc buy time to use Dark Exchange) that gives you even less time to heal or prepare to take a big hit, especially with the nonstop CC that gets passed around these days.

If anything they should give that new NB healing spammable morph to Sorc and give NBs something more appropriate to that class.