High Isle/Galen writing quality. *SPOILERS*

SerafinaWaterstar

@Eric_Prince

Top class plot ideas!

If only ESO was so good.

I just wish they would not dumb everything down. Like make ‘puzzles’ that my dog could solve. Or incredibly obvious plot developments & cartoon ‘baddies’.

Other games manage to do this well without losing players, so that excuse is not valid. It’s an 18+ game, so please treat us as adults.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

You know I am surprised they didn't rewrite the quest when players mentioned they were already onto the identity of the Ascendant Lord back during the launch of High Isle, it is a shame he turned out to be an overweight middle-aged guy who I doubt could even swing that giant great sword he carried around, also why was the Magus taking Orders from Bacaro, he was a Count, Bacaro is only a Lord.

pelle412

I'm in agreement with OP on this. I think the idea behind Legacy of the Bretons was good, but while playing through it I felt like it was targeting a very young audience and the story had very little nuance and character development. The last story I felt was very well written was Elsweyr and also Summerset the year before. After these expansions it feels like it has gotten thinner. I do like that villains don't just fall over with one light attack. They are still falling over very easy but I realize that the story should be doable by most.

Eric_Prince

SerafinaWaterstar wrote: »

@Eric_Prince

Top class plot ideas!

If only ESO was so good.

I just wish they would not dumb everything down. Like make ‘puzzles’ that my dog could solve. Or incredibly obvious plot developments & cartoon ‘baddies’.

Other games manage to do this well without losing players, so that excuse is not valid. It’s an 18+ game, so please treat us as adults.

Thank you for your kind words)

Totally agree. I remember my first time with those puzzles. Like any normal player I honestly remembered the symbols... only to find out it doesn't matter -___-

I_killed_Vivec

To be fair, this has been an issue since Wrothgar with its obvious ending... I saw that coming miles off and it really annoyed me that I had to run around as if I didn't understand what was going on, making dumb chat with Everli when I knew full well what was going on.

Firesong? Well the problem is that either it's one of the characters we've already been introduced to

Spoiler

and we don't have many to chose from

, or it's someone completely new, which wouldn't be too satisfying unless it was the starting point for the next chapter...

And that's the bigger point, stories don't have to finish in one year, they could span multiple chapters!

You root out one threat, only to find they were puppets and someone else is pulling the strings... but who is pulling their strings? And which Daedric prince is involved in the machinations? Wheels within wheels, etc...

DP99

prof-dracko wrote: »

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

So much absolutely this!

MreeBiPolar

prof-dracko wrote: »

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

From that point, Murkmire was the best shining thing. It was just a small zone, with nothing at all tying it up to anything else besides some minor character interactions, but it was so rich on the lore, it easily feels more than High Isle and Galen combined.

MreeBiPolar

Mofasa wrote: »

[snip]
[edited for conspiracy theory/misinformation]

That... Leaves the taste that the guy was straight onto it

blktauna

Do the people who complain they can't find things not have google? Honestly.

I thought it was me but indeed the level of writing has really gone down. The grey areas are almost gone and it's all gone Scooby Do (heretic I am, I never liked) Can we get some more complexity and less 'must wrap up everything this year' mentality?

Aliyavana

i really dislike that they made the ascendant order, this group of anti-monarchist, openly support lord baconator new druid king. we dont even get any explanation or notes or something of that nature describing the transition or individual opinions on why anarchists were so quick to change their minds.

SammyKhajit

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

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prof-dracko wrote: »

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

From that point, Murkmire was the best shining thing. It was just a small zone, with nothing at all tying it up to anything else besides some minor character interactions, but it was so rich on the lore, it easily feels more than High Isle and Galen combined.

^ when Murkmire came out, there were quite a bit of negative reviews. Sammy played the DLC and thoroughly enjoyed it. It is very much an underrated gem.

prof-dracko

MreeBiPolar wrote: »

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prof-dracko wrote: »

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

From that point, Murkmire was the best shining thing. It was just a small zone, with nothing at all tying it up to anything else besides some minor character interactions, but it was so rich on the lore, it easily feels more than High Isle and Galen combined.

Honestly I think it was. It was a nice breath of air after the year and a half Daedric War story (which worked largely because of its scope). It was very self contained, the threat was entirely local, the villain had a believable motive that wasn't to conquer or destroy everything. It felt entirely personal, and that made it easy to get invested in. Orsinium did the same thing, by making the story about the region and the people in it instead of the fate of the world. I'd like more of that.

Faulgor

prof-dracko wrote: »

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MreeBiPolar wrote: »

prof-dracko wrote: »

Personally I felt there was very little connection between the stories this year. Galen felt very disconnected from High Isle, besides thematically, and only barely connected with the "tie together at the end" quests. Galen could have been it's own isolated story perfectly fine (if you include the two dungeons and prologue quests), and if it had been I think it'd have felt far more successful. It all fell apart really at the end when

Spoiler

the Bacaro plotline tried to merge itself with the Druid plot when, to my recollection, they'd had no real intersect until that point

. It felt very rushed.

From that point, Murkmire was the best shining thing. It was just a small zone, with nothing at all tying it up to anything else besides some minor character interactions, but it was so rich on the lore, it easily feels more than High Isle and Galen combined.

Honestly I think it was. It was a nice breath of air after the year and a half Daedric War story (which worked largely because of its scope). It was very self contained, the threat was entirely local, the villain had a believable motive that wasn't to conquer or destroy everything. It felt entirely personal, and that made it easy to get invested in. Orsinium did the same thing, by making the story about the region and the people in it instead of the fate of the world. I'd like more of that.

The first half of Q4 DLC stories have consistently been the better ones so far because of this. They are more self-contained, whereas the chapter MQ sets up the year long story and the second half of the Q4 content finishes it.

Even in Firesong, although the villain was entirely colorless (can't even recall her name), the first half was leagues better than the continuation of High Isle.

amig186 wrote: »

I found it kind of funny, in a sad way, that Valessea was completely absent from the epilogue. It's like she was so forgettable that even the writers forgot about her. She only shows up at the very end when all of the participants of the peace talks need to show up. They didn't even re-hire the voice actress to record some new dialogue for her, she just repeats the same things she said at the end of High Isle.

Valessea was my favorite char the whole year, of course they would shove her to the side. She's so sweet and smart and humble, a real breath of fresh air in a sea of quippy marvelites.

Starlight_Knight

I remember when IC first came out, and thinking how cool it was going to be to eventually defeat all the deadra and have an actual IC to go into like a cental city hub with shops and things like in oblivion.

But eso has no progression its like the same week is just repeating itself over and over.

It would have been great to have a big statue of molag bal in the center of IC in homage to the big battle of days past,
hek we could have helped all build it like a year long event, just some sort of progress or accomplishment...

it wouldnt even need to be deleted as old content either because you can just touch meridias beacon or skyshard thing you do to start cadwells silver and gold and go back in time to play the quests and pvp there..

ESO's recent content is just bloat - no point doing it.

tldr. - Agreed story telling is ESO is dire, with no sense of time or progression

*cries in card game*

roqueforty

ESO's writing peaked at Summerset. This was the example of a world-ending event done right.
Thieves Guild and Darkbrotherhood both were the great representation of how to write a compelling local event story.
They also had a sleeper hit with Elsweyr, but nothing too outstanding.
Clockwork City was ok, but a lot of storiylines felt disjointed, same for Morrowind.
DC storyline was fine, but it was singlehandedly carried by Darien Gautier's character.

Everything else is like an unseasoned guar meat: bland, dry and uninspiring.

TiaFrye

roqueforty wrote: »

ESO's writing peaked at Summerset. This was the example of a world-ending event done right.
Thieves Guild and Darkbrotherhood both were the great representation of how to write a compelling local event story.
They also had a sleeper hit with Elsweyr, but nothing too outstanding.
Clockwork City was ok, but a lot of storiylines felt disjointed, same for Morrowind.
DC storyline was fine, but it was singlehandedly carried by Darien Gautier's character.

Everything else is like an unseasoned guar meat: bland, dry and uninspiring.

I guess someone has to come back and carry some more. Pretty sure he won't mind that.

Alekero

Quality of plots just meh...
Devs should hire C.W. Longbottom from the Mythic Quest lol

Malthorne

The writing is very simple. Everything is spelled out for the player as if ZOS thinks we are just a bunch of dum dums that need our hands held. No part of the writing, since 2018ish, is abstract. Nothing is left to interpretation or has a deeper meaning. And if you think about the plots of the last few chapters after completing their respective MSQs they don’t hold up to scrutiny at all.

Look at how many lore videos and Reddit posts are made about the metaphysical concepts, world building implications, and other subtle nuances within the main plots for Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim. Multiple people have made careers out of attempting to dissect the intricacies within the previous games. To my knowledge, we have nothing like this in ESO. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I do enjoy a good lore discussion and speculation essay.

Maybe I’m holding ESO to an impossible standard now, but I feel like the writing should be at least on par with the baseline established from the 2014 launch to Wrothgar/CWC/ Summerset.

blktauna

Agreed, sinc3 2018 the writing has been dreadful. If someone is away and needs a catchup then have a carried lorebook like for the musical instruments quest in w. skyrim. I'm sick of the stupid simplistic fetch quest nonsense in the main story arc. That's fine for fun side quests and little self contained errand quests, not for the main storyline.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

JD2013 wrote: »

Usually I do not really make post likes this, but I felt compelled to having just finished the whole Legacy of the Bretons main quest.

I am sorry to say that this year's writing is a big low for Elder Scrolls Online. Grounded political story became another world ending threat. It's not even in the same universe as Wrothgar's political writing.

For a story advertised as being Legacy of the Bretons, we got basically nothing in terms of new Breton lore. There was some good bits of druid lore, but this was few and far between.

But here's the big elephant in the room: the writing for the main quest epilogue treats The Vestige and by extension the players like they’re stupid. Insultingly stupid. It was obvious who the Ascendant Lord was from the start, but then towards the end we go into a cave find the armour and diary and it’s like “why is that here? Why would

Spoiler

Bacaro

have this here?” I am actually mad at how insanely badly written this was.

The only good bits of this story were the bits with the Alliance leaders and they end it

Spoiler

with the peace talks starting

. This is also really bad, but I get it. We can't move the world state on because of ESO's approach to game design. The world must remain as is and nothing can change. This is also a big pain point of ESO. No character growth, nothing changes.

The writing has been treating The Vestige like they have minus IQ points for years now, but this year was just ... bad. There's no other way to say it.

We need more dialogue options. Like any good RPG, there needs to be more things to do through this. Use persuade, use intimidate, things like that. Make The Vestige into more of a character with even a faint glimpse of being more than just something to go punch things to end the threat.

If you are doing a political story, look back to Wrothgar. That was brilliantly handled and written.

Don't make threats so obvious. And when they are revealed, please, PLEASE do not write dialogue like the Ascendant Lord reveal.

If you are going to continue with year long themes, it is okay to make the chapter and zone DLC into two different self contained stories in the same region. The year long stories were a neat idea to begin, but it is obvious now that they strangle storytelling as opposed to help it.

And I know this one will never get approved, but please, PLEASE let the world move on. If characters are to grow, if things are to develop, then the world can't stay in this static state. Continue rebuilding Abbey of the Blades. Let the peace talks happen. Rebuild Bleakrock, heck, rebuild Imperial City. Let Mannimarco escape Coldharbour. Let Meridia have a go at us. There's so much more you could do by letting the world move on.

Wrothgar and the whole Daedric War arc were some of the finest writing in this game and indeed of any ES game. Please let's have more of that.

Wonderfully said. I can only hope this is heard by those who can make changes for the better.

stevenyaub16_ESO

Agreed. They said it would be more politically driven but it was just the same old stuff.

I was expecting this mysterious faction to try and pit each faction against each other by staging events and creating turmoil between the leaders but instead it was just a standard evil lord threat that banded them together instead.

There was no political intrigue at all. From the get go the alliance leaders/player are firmly placed on one side whilst the bandit knights are placed on the other.

Really disappointing.

Lydawobbles

Awww I think they did a great job with the stories. It’s obvious that this year was smaller on purpose, between the lack of houses, major systems, etc.
I think they did a great job, even if it is a little short.

DMuehlhausen

Talosgobrrrr wrote: »

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TaSheen wrote: »

I - don't have any interest in the Daedric War stuff, or Wrothgar. So *shrug*. I'm happy with the last few years personally, excluding Greymoor/The Reach.

There's something for everyone in this game. You have your preferences, I have mine. I've been playing The Elder Scrolls since Arena released in 1994, so yeah, I have some serious years into this franchise.

I love ESO just the way it is, warts and all. Um. Other than the combat....

You are falling into a fallacy, it is not an argument to say that you have been playing since 1994, the creator of the post has argued with FACTS, not opinions, why the writing of this chapter has been of very poor quality, in this type of post , debate is welcome, but with arguments based on facts, not opinions, opinions are useless, it is pure sand.

Everything the OP said is Opinion not a single fact was stated really. Anything regarding story writing is opinon. Like the post you quoted they might think Legacy of Bretons is the greatest story every and that would be their opinion. You might think it's lower quality than any of the Avenger movies, which would opinion. Anything between there is opinion.

Stating they have been playing since Arena and have lots of years into the world is Fact though. Which those facts of playing that long help to form their opinion on what story line they enjoy more. So umm yeah

DinoZavr

*SPOILERS AHEAD*
you have been warned, OKay?

Galen story was no bad.
Still, one thing demotivates me a lot: that is how dumb my character is. Discovering Ascendant Lord armor has not rung a bell, and Vestige needed to find them diary to make the SHOCKING totally unexpected(!) discovery... Seriously, ZOS ?
Writing went downhill since Elsweyr in my perception...

Greymoor storyline quests were so much predictable (the worst Chapter story for me, even counting the adorable Addams Ravenwatch Family), very little of a real plot, very little to expect at the end. Saving another Princess: Khamira, Svana, saving the world, ah, again? from the big big baddie. Why did these bad guys wanted to destroy Nirn, just for the sake of what? Are not World Rulers have to be even a tad smarter than a brick, have long-terms plans to reach some complex and understandable benefits?
Markarth story was a good exclusion from the recent bunch, though. Al least Rada al-Saran had understandable and reasonable goals (but i had no chance to side with him and the Gray Host. why, Zenimax?).

What else disappointed me in High Isle story is that my character was not the only idiot. Ascendant Lord was not much smarter than me. They completely missed any strategy, intel, and the story appeared predictable and for the most of it - disconnected from Q4. If i fight the Big Baddie, they should be really formidable and great smart foe. Galen story also missed the explanations of Orlaith background, actions etc.. You fight the antagonist you have very little clue about. And this NPC is not an insignificant or sporadic, just the writers had too little time to exlain that smaller baddie, i guess..

Also, earlier, game-makers stated the High Isle story would be about politics (well Orsinium story is so much better, just off the table to be compared with) and the foes would be "morally grey". How on Nirn this could be true if these "greys" are opposing the super-duper exemplary kind smart white and fluffy adorable Lady Arabelle ?

If everything was ambiguous indeed, Vestige SHOULD have the ability to side with the Ascendant Order (provided they also have reasonable and kind of respectable goals) and the story was to fork with two different polar endings, depending on which of two fighting "grey" rival camps the player character joined. Even more interesting if Vestige joins the side which loses and then have to be reaping the consequences of their choice. But there were no greys in High Isle story - shining white Lady and dark black Lord.. Nothing to decide. Nothing to argue with. Pretty straightforward, despite game-makers promises, isn't it?

But, again. I can not bear the stories too straightforward and non-variable, requiring no thinking and changing barely nothing. Also i am unhappy to see my character being that freaking DUMB! Really males me to put Vestige out of theirs misery by not questing that much. /rant over/

TL/DR; Q4 was not bad and better than Q2 (like Markarth Q4 was much better than Q2 Greymoor), but Epilogue was very disconnected from Firesong and, alas, not much interesting for me to follow High Isle parts of this year-long simple story. Not much insights about Bretons lore too.

Sotha_Sil

How can we sum up the Legacy of the Breton year-long adventure ?

Leaders of the alliances come for peace talks that will start only in the end of the adventure. Nothing promised was delivered. This story was disappointing in every possible way.

The three "bonus quests" were just identical of the galen quests (Go to Yffelon &defeat boss).

alternatelder

Sorry to the writers, but I don't know how we went from great Summerset, Elsweyr stories to predictable Skyrim, Blackwood, and now HI (worst) stories. All of them the past 3 years I had to rush through because they were so obvious right from the beginning that I couldn't be bothered to spend so much time in dialogue I didn't care about anymore.

All of Galen took me less than 6 hours. There were two side quests that were worth taking time in (as all side quests usually are better in ESO...imo). Summerset will always be my favorite zone though, I wish we could go back to that.

Necrotech_Master

from my experience, i would say overall the high isle/galen storylines seemed a bit better than greymoor/blackwood

greymoor was OK, because it was more a reminiscence of skyrim, but the ending part with the big bad guy felt very disapointing

blackwood and deadlands had to have been the worse writing in my opinion, a combination of plot holes, treating your character like an idiot, and the bimbo-ness of eveli (which caused me to actively hate her from black drake villa onwards) was like a low point

high isle/galen i think did a better job of treating your character better, better dialog choices, and i thought high isle was heading in the right direction story wise with something good, but then galen story kind of felt super rushed and forced you into the same big bad fight, i really thought that they were going in the right direction of a "political discourse" story with the antagonism between the druids/non-druids living in the high isles, and then galen felt like a complete 180

SirAxen

The writing quality has indeed dipped pretty significantly in the last couple of years.

alternatelder

What even were the "peace talks"?? Did I miss some big dialogue ending? They didn't even discuss anything except when you talk to them afterwards and said "yeah, peace could happen...". All I remember besides that was just naming me Champion of the Alliances.

Hurbster

We just need Rigurt to be a gentleman detective alongside his plucky Khajite sidekick and his goldsmith father. That would sort all the problems. He could be Rigurt of Hamderville or something. Doing things only a Hamderville can.

Because with everything happening at the same time everything else is just stuck in limbo with no progression.